54216 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

If this were real life...would Sasuke REALLY be worth the sheer amount of BS he's put those two through? Would he really be allowed back into the village just because Naruto wants everyone to just 'forgive' Sasuke for his crimes? No! The amount of stupidity going into that idea is just...I'd rip my hair out if it happened. That would be the BIGGEST bull kitten move I've ever seen in fiction writing. 

That's because Kishi wants to show the message that everyone is good in the end but the problem is that he's avoiding the conflicts and the consequences of the actions of those people with jokes like the one Suigetsu made.

 

 

 

It is love, it's Kishi's poorly written portrayal of love. One thing I will say though, is that she came pretty close to giving up on Sasuke during the summit arc. Attempting to kill him was her way of "saving" him, while on the other hand it's just a cop-out because she can't bare to see Sasuke sink further into the darkness. 
 
It's all crap in my opinion.

 

Agreed, the problem with Sakura's and Karin's love is that, he showed that they truly loves Sasuke but however the motivations are ridiculous, there's pratically nothing on Sakura's flashbacks that justify that so called love to be that strong for him, Sasuke saved Karin one time but tried to kill her twice and abandoned her but still she was willing to sacrifice herself to save his life.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 March 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Otaru]

It's because Kishi's a terrible writer. I mean...really? Sakura's supposed to be one of the smarter characters in the damn manga, but the way Kishi writes her...she seems pretty dumb sometimes...

 

If this were real life...would Sasuke REALLY be worth the sheer amount of BS he's put those two through? Would he really be allowed back into the village just because Naruto wants everyone to just 'forgive' Sasuke for his crimes? No! The amount of stupidity going into that idea is just...I'd rip my hair out if it happened. That would be the BIGGEST bull kitten move I've ever seen in fiction writing. 

 

Its because IQ has nothing to do with feelings.

You could be really smart on what you do in life, and still not be able to see that someone near you loves you deeply and that you could feel the same.

It's too different things.

 

And also, in real life too there are some women that continue to pursue a guy that done bad to them... I've done exactly the same when I was younger...

 

About Sasuke, I agree with you but I still think Kishi will make him back to the village. Maybe he will make Sasuke do something really good to redeemed himself. We'll see. Sasuke has happened to save Sakura alongside Naruto when she was attacked by a mini-juubi... I don't really like it, because to me, Sasuke has gone really too far... but it seems to be the route Kishi is following...

 

 It is love, it's Kishi's poorly written portrayal of love. One thing I will say though, is that she came pretty close to giving up on Sasuke during the summit arc. Attempting to kill him was her way of "saving" him, while on the other hand it's just a cop-out because she can't bare to see Sasuke sink further into the darkness. 
 
It's all crap in my opinion.

 

No it is japanese conception of love that is different from ours.

In japan, love could be really dark, and still they see beauty in it.

 

What is weird is that :

 

If we read this manga carefully, what remains is not that she tried to kill Sasuke because "she couldn't bare to see him sink further into darkness". She tried to kill him because of Naruto's suffering, and because of the village. But mostly because of Naruto's suffering.

That was what trigger her decision. Naruto's suffering. If Shikamaru would have come to her before Sai, She wouldn't have reacted like that at all.

She had hard times to bare to see Sasuke sinks into darkness before. And she never thought of killing him. Never. It's true that Sasuke's case looked more and more dark with the time passing, and that Sakura wouldn't think like that at the beginning ("wanted" to kill him), but I think nothing could have made her think like that. Because her and Naruto wanted to save Sasuke.

The only thing that made her lose this hope was Naruto's suffering. It's just what she said to Naruto bluntly " I don't want you to go after Sasuke if it means you could get killed " / "think about yourself " or something like that.

 

Even if it's true she had hard times to bare to see him into darkness, she still hold some hope. But when Naruto's suffering was involved, and when Shikamaru came to her, she decided to take care of it. Because she felt responsible in a way. IMO. She decided to take the burden on her shoulders, she didn't want Naruto to know about it, because she knew he wouldn't accept it, and he would argue with the other rookies, and maybe the whole village. All this was her trying to prevent Naruto from more suffering. She accepted to risk her life, and have Naruto maybe hate her. By doing this, Naruto wouldn't argue against the rookies, he would have been angry at her. I think that's what she thought.

I also think it was a way for her to punish herself. (she doesn't feel great about herself. This " a girl like me " says a lot)

 

So... when Sai said that she was doing that because "she couldn't bare to see Sasuke sink further into darkness", I felt like : "this is not it, this is not it at all". It's weird because in this arc, Kishi was like he was explaining everything with Sai's mouth.

But this is just not true.

 

I don't know what Kishi really wanted to say at this moment. He even drawn flashback panels of Sakura around Sasuke. I mean, it's true she felt like that, but at that time, that was not the reason why she tried to deal with Sasuke alone.

 

Am I wrong ?

 

*** KnS I really like your long post but I don't have "like" left ^^'

Edited by Otaru, 13 March 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[rikakim94]

 

Have you by chance read Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre, or The Count of Monte Cristo?  All three of them, in their own way, contain story elements that you would probably consider a "sheer amount of BS" for the characters to be put through -- by another character or each other.  

 

For example, take Wuthering Heights.  Here's a portion of the synopsis from Wikipedia:

 

Likewise, in Jane Eyre, Edward Rochester is often viewed as sadistic and manipulative, torturing Jane with his relationship with Blanche Ingraham in order to make Jane jealous instead of admitting his true feelings -- all the while he is hiding an insane wife in the shuttered turret.

 

And The Count of Monte Cristo goes beyond a "sheer amount of BS" and is instead a vortex of emotional torture and vengeful dipkittentery that the characters endure or impose on each other.

 

Considering that all three of these novels are considered classics of English literature and often make the top 100 novels of all time, I don't think Kishimoto is all that far off the mark, and his portrayal of romance and loyalty certainly doesn't make him a "terrible writer."  

 

A reader has to remember not to judge the material by their own modern morality or personal standards.  The world is full of people who would do things -- for good and bad -- that you would never do, but that doesn't make it stupid or unrealistic.  Just different.

 

Besides, the "sheer amount of BS" concept is not unique to Naruto and Sakura and their relationship with Sasuke.  Jiraiya spent a lifetime following Orochimaru because he never gave up on him; the Third struggled to kill him as well, regardless of what he did.  Kakashi has lived with survivor's guilt, torment, and self-loathing his entire life because of his bond with Obito and Rin.  Etc., etc.

 

Within the framework of the Naruto universe morality -- the ninja code -- taking friendship and team bonds very seriously, never giving up on your comrades, and doing everything in your power to help them stay on the right path is part of their lives.  

 

It's not something that we as readers can judge by our personal ethics or experiences.  If that were the case, I would totally agree.  It's frustrating.  I would have kicked Sasuke's butt to the curb a long time ago and never looked back.  But I'm not a ninja.

 

 

I think it's worth remembering that Sakura never said any of that, it was purely speculation by Sai.  We never saw Sakura form those words or thoughts.  Sai isn't always correct when he interprets Sakura's behavior.

 

 

Naruto can't bring himself to put Sasuke down either.  I guess that means he's in love with Sasuke too, right?  

 

 

Very true.

 

Thats why some people would rather be anti towards all three pairings nh, ss, ns. Because of naruto obsessing over sasuke until the very end plus he seems to get more emotional about him than any other characters. It gets worse when in the recents chapters it turns out that sasuke was his biggest regret. At this point i can consider sasuke and naruto to be heterosexual life partners or borderline gay romance. 

Edited by rikakim94, 12 March 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Otaru]

I've re-read the chapters when Sai told Sakura about Naruto's love for her, and the chapters that follow.

 

I think I understand now why Kishi made Sai say that Sakura wanted to kill Sasuke BECAUSE she loves him.

Just before, Naruto was talking about Sasuke and asking Sai and himself questions about it.

 

" But Sakura is OK with this ? No way, Sakura-chan loves Sasuke so much " etc...

 

Naruto didn't understand how Sakura could bring herself to think of killing Sasuke because in his mind, she loves him so much.

He talked about Sasuke so much, I think it's why Sai talked about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.

Sai didn't explain why she was doing all this by saying that.

He was just answering Naruto's questioning about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.

 

I think at that time, what Kishi wanted to tell us, is that Sakura still loved Sasuke. But it's obvious she has really strong feelings for Naruto. Her feelings for Naruto are shown to be really ambiguous.

As Sai said " she was only thinking of you". She may not still be aware of it, but "just by looking at her, I can tell that she...." ^^

 

I think for Kishi, the whole purpose of the confession was to get in light Sakura's true feelings (in a weird way yes) for Sasuke, and for Naruto, and also to let Naruto realises that she can put his wellbeing above Sasuke and everything else, even herself. THIS IS REALLY STRONG.

How could Naruto be angry at her ? Some fans didn't understand why Naruto wasn't angry at Sakura. It's because Naruto understood her feelings thanks to Sai.

 

The true purpose of Kishimoto, IMO, was to show the progression on Sakura's side, and to give development to Naruto and Sakura's bond.

 

I think Sakura's lingering feelings for Sasuke might have changed after he tried to kill her at that time.

Edited by Otaru, 13 March 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Gojira]

I'm really starting to doubt we'll be getting that NS moment everyone's been waiting for, it seems more like Kishi is going to have Naruto and or Sasuke show up out of the blue to save the day.

[Otaru]

It's a possibility, though I don't think it will happen like that.

Aside of what could happen between Naruto and Sakura, there is some talk that could be between Naruto and Obito.

So I think we will see Naruto wake up.

[Superman333]

lol Gai's daddy looks like someone out of Bobobo Bo Bobobo . And he looks Mexican .

* lol don't take it to heart .

[redragon88]

I've re-read the chapters when Sai told Sakura about Naruto's love for her, and the chapters that follow.

 

I think I understand now why Kishi made Sai say that Sakura wanted to kill Sasuke BECAUSE she loves him.

Just before, Naruto was talking about Sasuke and asking Sai and himself questions about it.

 

" But Sakura is OK with this ? No way, Sakura-chan loves Sasuke so much " etc...

 

Naruto didn't understand how Sakura could bring herself to think of killing Sasuke because in his mind, she loves him so much.

He talked about Sasuke so much, I think it's why Sai talked about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.

Sai didn't explained why she was doing all this by saying that.

He was just answering Naruto's questioning about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.

 

This goes back to what I said about Naruto being the reason and Sasuke the justification.

 

Naruto's safety was the reason she decided that killing Sasuke needed to be done, but she used the idea of "saving him from darkness" as a way to justify killing someone you love, overcome the emotional burden it gives. At least according to Sai.

 

If you rob a man with the reason being to feed your family it doesn't make it any less of a bad act, but maybe you can try to justify it by saying that the rich man got his money through corrupt means, this making it less bad in your mind to rob him.

 

What Sakura wants the most is for Naruto to be safe (feed the family), but she has to kill Sasuke (rob a man) in order to ensure it. And while killing someone she loves seems unthinkable to Naruto (a bad act), Sai says Sakura can justify it as saving Sasuke from darkness (corrupt rich man).

[narusaku256]

I'm really starting to doubt we'll be getting that NS moment everyone's been waiting for, it seems more like Kishi is going to have Naruto and or Sasuke show up out of the blue to save the day.

How much ever I want to deny this statement and how much ever I despise the fact that we are going to turn up with a 'no show' between Naruto and Sakura, I can't help but agree with you. Its not like they would turn out of the blue and fight Madara, but we might end up getting no moment between Naruto and Sakura. But surely, a conversation between Naruto and Obito is bound to happen. Honestly, I have a very confused opinion of Sakura's confession. Its like the reverse of what Sai said during the war meaning her words maybe false but her expressions are true. I just don't get it. Does she really have feelings for Naruto or is she just hell bent on Sasuke? I don't really see a good reason for her to love Sasuke so deeply since the only reason she loves Sasuke stems from her childhood crush. And that so called love is surely hampering the one she should be honestly loving. The first time I read the confession and the analysis by Sai it seemed normal to me. But when I read certain posts here, I realized there was more to it than its been shown. Just who the heck does she love anyway!

 

P.S- Sorry for the downpour of emotions, but I am seriously frustrated with this part.

Edited by narusaku256, 12 March 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Gojira]

How much ever I want to deny this statement and how much ever I despise the fact that we are going to turn up with a 'no show' between Naruto and Sakura, I can't help but agree with you. Its not like they would turn out of the blue and fight Madara, but we might end up getting no moment between Naruto and Sakura. But surely, a conversation between Naruto and Obito is bound to happen. Honestly, I have a very confused opinion of Sakura's confession. Its like the reverse of what Sai said during the war meaning her words maybe false but her expressions are true. I just don't get it. Does she really have feelings for Naruto or is she just hell bent on Sasuke? I don't really see a good reason for her to love Sasuke so deeply since the only reason she loves Sasuke stems from her childhood crush. And that so called love is surely hampering the one she should be honestly loving. The first time I read the confession and the analysis by Sai it seemed normal to me. But when I read certain posts here, I realized there was more to it than its been shown. Just who the heck does she love anyway!

 

P.S- Sorry for the downpour of emotions, but I am seriously frustrated with this part.

No-yeah i totally agree

 

I have no idea myself, Kishi says she was being honest, despite the fact that it was proven immediatley afterwards it was a lie, and reinforced later on in chapter 540

 

According to Yamato's statement (assuming Kishi just didn't forget about it) and the databooks Sakura does have feelings for him but isn't aware of it and imo she still doesn't. I think we need an epiphany scene to clarify this

 

Not really sure why people are saying Kishi should save all this crap for the end (likely the final chapter like FMA) because he would have to make it rushed all that ambiguous build-up 99% of the manga would come back to bite him in the ass for it. Hence why I say said clarification needs to happen now or soon and not at the end. 

[narusaku256]

Exactly! Like how can he rush things like this at the end! I mean that will be ridiculous. We don't need a confession right now but atleast he can show that Sakura has realized that she loves Naruto IF at all he wants to end the series with that. Or, not even that but atleast that she is realizing her love for Naruto. I am not saying she should get emotional over Naruto's death and all. I mean her being in control amounts for huge character development on her part. But I think it is high time now that she either realizes her feelings for Naruto or atleast gets a hint about it. All the development and all is okay but they are of no use if they are not put to use. It will be just like making a blueprint of a brand new version of Lamborghini but not making the car itself making the blueprints of no use. Even my patience is nearing end now. Leaving NS apart, even in today's manga so much flashback wasen't necessary at all. 4-5 pages were decent, but we got a manga full of flashbacks! What a cliffhanger! 

[HokagexNaruto]

You know... when Minato mentioned Gai's dad, I just knew it meant a flashback was coming... lol. 

 

But yeah, I agree with Otaru and NaruSaku256. A talk between Naru & Obi is going to happen and what not. I just don't know about a moment between NaruSaku, but other than that, yeah.

 

And I'm totally new here, but carry on.

[narusaku256]

Now, seeing Kishi denote an entire manga to some new flashback and not on what needed to be shown, god knows how much manga we are going to get on Naruto's and Obito's talk assuming that there will be a sureshot debate on some philosophies. Maybe the real fight will start in next volume. Cliffhangers look good only upto a certain limit, but once they cross the limit, they become annoying!

[PhenixElite]

As soon theres a talk between naruto and obito, a talk between naruto is inevitable...just sayin.
Its also unlikely that there wont be any interaction between naruto and sakura since shes with naruto for a reason. If
nothing of the above happens the whole sakura trying to keep naruto alive and following him to the
other dimension was totaly unecessary.

[narusaku256]

I really hope it turns out the way you said. But, unlike their other conversations this has to be something really different. If its just their normal like ' I can't let you go and fight Madara! He's this he's that' then I would like to say just one thing! Be prepared for the worst. But then again there's a huge 'IF' factor to this. So, anything can happen. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst is all I can say!

[PhenixElite]

I really hope it turns out the way you said. But, unlike their other conversations this has to be something really different. If its just their normal like ' I can't let you go and fight Madara! He's this he's that' then I would like to say just one thing! Be prepared for the worst. But then again there's a huge 'IF' factor to this. So, anything can happen. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst is all I can say!

I actually dont think that we have to prepare for the worst even if theres no moment to come yet, it doesnt really matter on my part. If its not yet its going to be later we dont know what kishi is up to maybe he wants to save a moment for some kind of naruto sasuke fight final who knows.

All this worrieng right now is totally unecessary. Kishi already showed what pairing is going to be canon so just wait how hes going to do it, there are a lot of ways. I remember the chapter 615 times where eveyone was flippin out and whining. Already back then i said that this chapter ended NH since hinatas part was done and sakuras still to come and now look where we are now.

[narusaku256]

When did Kishi show that the pairing is going to be canon? Are you refering to the development? If yes then that certainly makes sense. I have a certain setback against the time he's going to make that happen. But yes there are multiple ways to make that happen. Anyways, the above point I put up has a huge 'IF' factor and by 'prepare for worst' I pointed at NS moment not happening and not the end of NS. Sorry for not making that clear.

Edited by narusaku256, 12 March 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[PhenixElite]

When did Kishi show that the pairing is going to be canon? Are you refering to the development? If yes then that certainly makes sense. I have a certain setback against the time he's going to make that happen. But yes there are multiple ways to make that happen. Anyways, the above point I put up has a huge 'IF' factor and by 'prepare for worst' I pointed at NS moment not happening and not the end of NS. Sorry for not making that clear.

Yeah kishi showed through development that hes going to make it canon, biggest evidence 631. Theres no way around that chapter without a plot hole so yeah....
As said i think theres going to be a moment as soon as naruto awakes and if not its not the end of the world. In my opinion kishi doesnt need more then one or two chapters to make NS officaly canon so there should be more than enough timeand space left for it.

[HokagexNaruto]

PhenixElite is right. You don't necessarily have to prepare for the worst, but you shouldn't have your hopes too high for something either. Since we obviously know they're going to talk, just don't hope for some romantic or loving scene between the two since you know... her hands kinda in him and such. I'm sure he'll thank her and stuff. We know this couple is the most developed in the story, might as well take it as it is and just be patient. 

Unless you feel like worrying for the heck of it. That's cool too! 

[narusaku256]

Guess worrying too much XD. No option left but to wait and watch XD. Sorry for hyping the atmosphere up. But since I hyped it I'll cool it down. Any guesses about Naruto's reaction when he finds out about Sakura's CPR to him XD?