9679 replies to this topic

[catsi563]

Character hate is the only reasonable explanation. The majority of those who use that particular argument are either Sakura haters and/or NaruSaku haters, and/or NaruHina supporters.

Also there is a large misinterpretation of that scene from a lot of readers.

[ciardha]

that could be a doosey; do they leave it alone, or interfere and make sure Madara dies, changing EVERYTHING...

I think a "Quantum Leap" type premise is best- it is their very presence and help at that moment that insured their present is as positive as it is or even happened. In other words say what Madara just said happened (Madara genjutsued Hashirama and Mito into thinking he died) but actually he was preparing to fatally stab Mito- thus unleashing the Kyuubi again. But Sakura (who has shown in part 2 that she has immunity to skilled MS level users genjutsu- Itachi) sees through Madara's genjustu and immediately punches the ground, knocking Madara far away from Mito and breaking his genjutsu. The four (Hashirama, Mito, Naruto and Sakura) all take on Madara injuring him enough that while he escapes (barely)he is so messed up that he basically has to act from the shadows and have others do the deeds for years- until the night Naruto was born. Mito was a few months pregnant with her second child when this fight takes place and the kyuubi sealing ends up killing the baby and shortly after leading to a life threatening miscarriage that nearly causes the seal to break- Sakura saves Mito's life and Naruto helps Mito and Hashirama to fix the seal. Thus leading to Kushina becoming a host years later.

Edited by ciardha, 28 September 2010 - 07:22 PM.

[maliousdei]

a little concern I have is about the minakushi parallel. what if hinata saving naruto made him fall for her? someone please convince me I'm crazy for thinking such a thing.

[Davidos]

a little concern I have is about the minakushi parallel. what if hinata saving naruto made him fall for her? someone please convince me I'm crazy for thinking such a thing.

Hmm I don't think Hinata can really save Naruto in anyway perhaps only sacrifice herself like she did during the pain arc.. Which I probably think won't happen again. And lol for thinking Hinata could save Naruto in a similar way as Minato did to Kushina since most of Naruto's enemies are way too strong for Hinata in all ways she doesn't stand a chance. So him falling for her is very very very very very unlikely.

Sakura on the other hand can save him from death etc since she is a medical Ninja after all .

Edited by Davidos, 28 September 2010 - 08:43 PM.

[Derock]

a little concern I have is about the minakushi parallel. what if hinata saving naruto made him fall for her? someone please convince me I'm crazy for thinking such a thing.

Seriously, how?

Naruto: "I desperately need help! Save Me!!"

Hinata: "Oh don't worry Naruto-kun, I'll save you with my love and boobies!"

Naruto: "Yay! I think I love you, girl!"



We all should know Naruto is the hero of the story (for that example I just use now, it downgrades his character 100x to a wussbag), why and how can he fall for Hinata? As a matter of fact, this is just another silly statement for NaruHina to "parallel" MinaKushi in a wrong way.

[Toasty Warrior]

a little concern I have is about the minakushi parallel. what if hinata saving naruto made him fall for her? someone please convince me I'm crazy for thinking such a thing.

Maybe in about one hundred years that would happen, but remember Hinata stepping out to save Naruto was foolish of her and she even said it herself, and I clearly remember Naruto telling everyone to stay out of his way while fighting Pain, then again you maybe thinking about how the anime did it since they overdid the part where she saved Naruto and he showed more expressions in the anime while in the manga he jumped right to his six tailed form.

[ciardha]

a little concern I have is about the minakushi parallel. what if hinata saving naruto made him fall for her? someone please convince me I'm crazy for thinking such a thing.

Hinata didn't save Naruto. In manga canon Naruto was thinking of a plan right before Hinata inserts herself into the scene, throwing everything off and not leaving when Naruto repeats his order to everyone- to stay back from the battle. her actions were worse than pointless- She merely stands up in front of Naruto, making no move to even free him and with her back to Naruto she makes a love confession (to which Naruto's facial expression is almost exactly like Sakura's when Rock Lee made his love confession- a WTH?! expression), then is unable to even parry Pain's stabbing her in front of Naruto. That's the final straw that causes Naruto to lose control and immediately go 6 tails. If Minato hadn't had the foresight to do what he did Hinata's actions could have very well doomed Naruto and doomed Konoha. Then there's her casually voting for Sasuke's death along with the others of their age peers- that sure wouldn't have added to his opinion of her. Naruto understands why Sakura made that decision and how hard it was for her and in his own mind has come to see that death might be Sasuke's only escape from his darkness, but for the rest of his age peers who voted for that without an intense emotional struggle, he's lost respect for them- as can be seen when they are questioning him after the return from Iron country.

Edited by ciardha, 28 September 2010 - 09:34 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

I do think the "weird person" was a direct shot at them (because he was definitely hacked off at the rabid naruhina shippers who were writing him letters praising Hinata to the skies and trashing Sakura. For Kishimoto to make those statements about those letters means he was really angry about them. Japanese people are socialized much more than Americans are to not speak ill of others in public, especially about people who are consuming your product, they are socialized to apologize for their "poor" work and promise to strive to do better in the future.)

Saying something like this bothers me a lot. I might not respect all of Kishimotos decisions with his manga, but he is certainly not the type to do something like this. For one, you are basically assuming he doesn't care about his character Hinata. Second, you are also describing him as an immature person who is 'getting back at' his fans. Can you really even argue this? Or the better question is, why would you want to? Why would you want to believe Kishimoto capable of turning on his own fans? It doesn't even make any sense because Naruto got past his initial image of Hinata and she became one of his friends. That means, to him, she isn't weird any longer. Trying to claim a mangaka would make a 'direct shot' at their fans is a pretty horrible argument.

the confession can be broken down into three basic elements.

1: Tell Naruto her feelings (or Naruto I said I love you)

2: Tell Naruto that he doesnt need to pursue Sasuke any more (Or so dont worry about the promise)

3: Tell Naruto she really does feel that way about him (Or only I know my feelings)

1: Directly from Sai: Sakura didn’t come here to confess her feelings to you…she came here to tell you something she and your other age mates decided.

So by this, the number one purpose for Sakura going was to tell him about the rookies, and her, decision to kill Sasuke (I know you mentioned this). It was not her initial purpose to confess to Naruto. Of course, Sakura couldn't do this. She found something else more important to do, which was basically plan B: remove burdens from Naruto. Sai says Sakura did this by giving up on Sasuke and confessing her love. But this proves her initial purpose was not to confess, it was to remove burdens from Naruto, and to do that she decided to confess. The problem with this, though, is that this couples her confession with the part she was lying about: not caring about Sasuke. Thus, to both the reader, and Naruto, her confession becomes a huge question mark. If she was lying about one thing, she could be lying about the other. The conclusion is that we don't know how Sakura truly feels about Naruto.

Other parts that could mean something:

-She chose to speak to Naruto herself. She told Sai it was her duty.
-She wants to save Sasuke from a life of evil because she loves him.
-She is risking Naruto's friendship because he might hate her.
-She couldn't tell Naruto and chose to work alone, punishment on herself for relying/burdening Naruto.

Conclusion: We have to wait for resolution. i.e. Kishi will hold out on pairings as long as possible

it is this shattering fo the mental image that throws him for the biggest loop. Also Sakura insistence that only she can understand her feelings. Her comment about women being ficke as the autumn Skies is a classic anime and eastern saying regarding how a woman can change her feelings.

The problem was the context of her saying that line. Rather than doing something that would show Naruto how in love with him she was, she said a line that, to almost anyone, would sound like a cop-out. Whether she was nervous or scared or whatever is besides the point. Most people would expect that if Sakura was so in love with Naruto, she would be able to do or say something that was much more convincing than that line.

As I've said before, Protecting someone requires you to by nature shut them out from what ever may hurt them, in this case the rookies decision would hurt Naruto and thus Sakura desired to protect him just as she did when the 4 tailed Kyuubi hurt her.

I agree. Sakura did want to protect Naruto, both physically and emotionally. At the same time she was risking hurting him emotionally. Mostly, I think, she was concerned about his life.

Sakuras though took a hell of a lot more courage, because in her case she was not facing a life or death situation or a madman intent on killing her.

I think Sakura saw it as a life or death situation. Pein had just destroyed Konoha. That is how powerful the Akatsuki are, and they want Naruto. Now added to that fact, Sasuke is one of them and therefore wants the same thing. Naruto is rushing headlong to find him without asking her for help. He could be rushing straight to his death. By this, it was a life or death situation. It was now or never. Had things not seemed so desperate, Sakura would have never done what she did. Kishi continuously shows that desperate confessions are not good.

She was facing Naruto with witnesses nearby and the witnesses were her peers and friends and teachers. For a girl like Sakura this would be a big moment and she handled it well.

But none of them were convinced either...

the only issue though was that you cannot simultaneously look left and right at the same time, and this was the root of Sakuras problem with the confession.

in conclusion for all the crap Sakura has taken for the confession the main argument is that shes lying to Naruto. Simply put this is not true. she only withheld one thing from Him and that is the rookies decision about Sasuke.

period end of statment.

She withheld her true intentions towards Sasuke, she withheld that she still cared for him as well. That's why the whole confession is clouded and we still have to wait to see what Sakura feels for both Sasuke and Naruto.

[Cloud]

Why would you want to believe Kishimoto capable of turning on his own fans? It doesn't even make any sense because Naruto got past his initial image of Hinata and she became one of his friends. That means, to him, she isn't weird any longer. Trying to claim a mangaka would make a 'direct shot' at their fans is a pretty horrible argument.

Kishimoto approves.

[Gravenimage]

Seriously, how?

Naruto: "I desperately need help! Save Me!!"

Hinata: "Oh don't worry Naruto-kun, I'll save you with my love and boobies!"

Naruto: "Yay! I think I love you, girl!"



We all should know Naruto is the hero of the story (for that example I just use now, it downgrades his character 100x to a wussbag), why and how can he fall for Hinata? As a matter of fact, this is just another silly statement for NaruHina to "parallel" MinaKushi in a wrong way.

Really it's been like 66 chapters since Hinata's confession and Naruto hasn't bothered to answer it and he probably never will. Also Kishi killed that probability with 457 with the flashback of Naruto that he couldn't confess his feelings for Sakura because he hasn't fulfill the promise (the main point is that the flashback was shown AFTER 437).

[holy_demon]

Regarding Sakura's confession, it still bothers me that Sakura mentionned so much about Sasuke during her confession. Part of me wants to believe that she inevitably referred to Sasuke because the assassination plan was stuck in her head, hence Sasuke's name was blurted out of her. Still, it's hard for me to reject the argument that she was only denying her love for Sasuke, by constantly referring to Sasuke. People even draw a parallel between Sakura's to confession: with Sasuke, it was full of tears and desperation; with Naruto, it sounded so business-like. Needless to say, I frequently find myself at defeat. Anyhow, I'm curious how you guys interpret that scene ?

[jason voorhees]

in conclusion for all the crap Sakura has taken for the confession the main argument is that shes lying to Naruto. Simply put this is not true. she only withheld one thing from Him and that is the rookies decision about Sasuke.

period end of statment.

100% True no question

nice catsi


an for what its worth its loved sai says japan shonen jump which to me shows she remembers how sasuke was or once was her cush past memores,mabe memores to still let go but she was honest no question

Edited by hypno toad, 28 September 2010 - 11:21 PM.

[maliousdei]

while I will admit that the intent from sakura's confession was to release naruto of his burdens, that even of itself doesn't exactly mean/prove she didn't mean it when she said she loved him. reasoning behind a confession may play a part in it, but it was never really regarded as a lie by sai. the two confessions before were brought on by other reasons as well. sakura confessed to sasuke first in order to get him to stay and hinata confessed because she was about to die.

so I ask you, while keeping what I said in mind, does the fact that sakura confessed to naruto with the intent of releasing him of his burdens mean that she was lying?

[Cloud]

so I ask you, while keeping what I said in mind, does the fact that sakura confessed to naruto with the intent of releasing him of his burdens mean that she was lying?

while other peopl may say oterwise, i say yes because she love both her teammate an would luv to se team 7 reunite

[catsi563]

Mali you clearly didnt read my full post.

SHE IS NOT LYING.

The vaugery that clouds the confession comes from the looking left and right aspects of it.

She is trying to both protect him from the rookies decision as well as her own decision about Sasuke to kill him. And she is trying to open up to him.

But the contradictory nature of the two elements creates the vaguery that soupy mentions which clouds the whole thing. never the less clouded or not she was not lying to him about her feelings.

the only even remotely lieing part about the confession was the part about the rookies decision relating to Sasuke which she clearly obfuscated in order to protect him from the truth.

The problem with confessions in this manga has been that nearly all fo them have been done in a comedic fashion or in a moment of desperation.

the only two that werent done in desperation or comedic intent, were Tsunades subtle one to Jiraiya, and Sakuras to Naruto. Sakuras to Naruto was in a way done partly because Im sure Sakura didnt expect to survie the encounter, and if she did survive it, I feel her thought process was that Naruto would hate her and turn away from her because shed killed Sasuke.

Obviously he wouldnt have but I feel her thought process was along that line. And thus she felt the need to confess her feelings to him knowing ((in her mind only)) that he would end up hating her, assuming she didnt die in the attempt.

[ciardha]

the only two that werent done in desperation or comedic intent, were Tsunades subtle one to Jiraiya, and Sakuras to Naruto. Sakuras to Naruto was in a way done partly because Im sure Sakura didnt expect to survie the encounter, and if she did survive it, I feel her thought process was that Naruto would hate her and turn away from her because shed killed Sasuke.

Obviously he wouldnt have but I feel her thought process was along that line. And thus she felt the need to confess her feelings to him knowing ((in her mind only)) that he would end up hating her, assuming she didnt die in the attempt.

I definitely agree with you on this, really it's the only way you can read it coherently in the manga. Interesting point that you make about Tsunade's and Jiraiya mutual near confessions, Jiraiya also almost makes it obvious then backs off and states he was joking. The specter of death not immediate but soon hangs over their scene too- in their case it happens for Jiraiya and Tsunade ends up comatose, both as the result of a heroic action fighting the same person and a sacrifice to save the people of their village.

[alexander]

I think in this situation the one that should really be at fault is Naruto, nothing of this would happen if he just had let go of this obssession with Sasuke, and please, don't try to bring up that old argument that Naruto is doing this to stop the cycle of hatred, I just got sick of all this. Seriously, think about it, I won't kill him because i want to stop this cycle. Yeah, and while you say that Naruto, Sasuke won't think twice before he starts slaughtering all your conmarades without mercy. It's just ridiculous how Naruto puts more favour in "saving" Sasuke than saving the world. And he says that he won't allow Sasuke to hurt his friends, so if they fight because of it, both of them will die. I gotta admit I nearly dropped the manga for good that day. I mean, why does Naruto have to die too? Can't he put faith that he can defeat Sasuke without dying? To put it short, I think neither Naruto or Sakura would have to go through this if they could just forget someone that don't even care about them. Perhaps these two would be much more happy if they could move on with their life. At least Sakura is trying. Sorry if this rant annoyed you, you can hate me if want, I don't care, no matter what happens, I will aways think that the best way to end this is eliminating Sasuke and no one will ever chance my mind about that. That's what I think.

[Askia31]

Recently ive heard lot of peuple saying Yahiko/Konan is a parallel to Sasusaku. They say Yahiko=Sasuke, Konan=Sakura, Nagato=Naruto and after seeing this;

picture --Click here to view--

i can't really say otherwise that Nagato=/=Naruto. What you guys think?

Edited by Askia31, 29 September 2010 - 01:15 PM.

[Jenskott]

i can't really say otherwise that Nagato=/=Naruto. What you guys think?

What fans are over-obsessed and persnickety.

Now, seriously... Naruto shares traits with Yahiko AND Nagato, much like he shared traits with Nawaki AND Dan (still SS fans tried making paralellysms between Tsunade's brother and lover and Team 7, claiming Naruto looked like Nawaki and Dan looked like Sasuke -I do not kid you-, and since Sakura was like Tsunade, it meant Naruto was her brother and Sasuke her lover, and SS would happen. Nope, I do not kid you. I think they forgot Nawaki AND Dan are like Naruto whereas Dan is NOTHING like Sasuke). So no, you can't use that picture to prove YK is a parallel to SS.

In fact, if I was feeling inclined, I could tell YK proves NS is canon because I can make parallelisms between YK and NS and between Nagato and Sasuke (Nagato also wields an eye kekkei genkai, was severely traumatized when he was a kid, he thought his power did him superior, he believed utter destruction was the way to solve everything, he joined Akatsuki, Madara manipulated and used him, and Naruto tried to reason with him).

So, no. Parallels can be an entertaining mental exercise, but they don't prove such or such outcome absolutely will happen. Trying and pulling parallels in order to prove Character A y Character B will get together is futile.

Specially if those parallels are pulled out from nowhere. The manga establishes a clear parallelism between Team Sarutobi and Team 7. Or between Kakashi and Sarutobi (when Kakashi pondered he was forced now to kill his student bright like Sandaime did). Or between Naruto and his parents. Or between Naruto and Nawaki and Dan. Or...

It also "arguably" makes a parallel between NS and MK. Or between Naruto and Sasuke's relationship with Sakura and Ino's (Naruto and Sakura were considered weaklings whereas Sasuke was considered a genius and Ino was called the best kunoichi of her class, IIRC. Sasuke and Ino came from clans and used kekkei genkai jutsus, whereas Naruto -as far as we knew- and Sakura belonged to no clan. Ino motivated Sakura to train harder in order to surpass her. Sakura and Ino's friendship is what Naruto and Sasuke could have got if they would have kept their rivalry in a more civilized level...). But that may be my own interpretation, so I may be mistaken.

But YK and SS? The manga never -ever- suggests Yahiko is like Sasuke and Sakura like Konan and the relationship between Yahiko and Konan was right like Sasuke and Sakura's relationship. It is nowhere mentioned or hinted.

Those fans simply are trying using a canon relationship to try and proving their worshipped pairing will happen. Right like they did with Tsunade and Dan or Minato and Kushina. Jesus, I would not be shocked if someone said me they have tried using Asuma and Kurenai, too. Or Sarutobi and Biwako. Or Mito and Hashirama.

My advice is don't give any credibility to that nosense and don't waste your time with it.

[ciardha]

Saying something like this bothers me a lot. I might not respect all of Kishimotos decisions with his manga, but he is certainly not the type to do something like this. For one, you are basically assuming he doesn't care about his character Hinata.

From what you've say whenever Sakura is brought up, you must assume he doesn't care about Sakura- it's always the most negative interpretation of Sakura in any scenes you can possibly come up with, and you argue fiercely against even a slightly more positive interpretation. Look what you said above and replace Hinata with Sakura. If you don't think he would make a very slightly negative allusion to Hinata, one that was supported by Naruto's own opinion of Hinata that he'd had from their Academy days by the way, then you have to reject any negative interpretation of Sakura.

Hinata is on par with Rock Lee as the type of support character she is and Kishimoto certainly doesn't avoid using him for a similar minor mocking. Kishimoto has even already done a minor mocking of Hinata that's along the same level in part 2 when she faints when Naruto comes up to her upon his return to Konoha. He just balances it with more constructive moments so they don't become mere joke characters.