1876 replies to this topic

[Greed-Sama]

Absolutely! And our most economically prosperous time was when taxes on the wealthy and corporations was at it's highest. Can you just imagine how quickly we would get back to prosperity for all, lower unemployment, pay off all debts, raise the minimum wage, and make a surplus (something Clinton managed to do with just a 8% raise of taxes on the most wealthy)- if we merely taxed the wealthy and corporations like we did from 1951-1963! (anyone making over 400,000 a year- still less than 2% of the population, taxed at 91% of their income.) 93% of people earn 99,000 or less a year (87% 74,000 or less, 71% 49,000 or less, 35% 25,000 or less)

So anyone making over 400,000 we're going to tax 91% of their income?

While I agree the taxes of the wealthy needed to be heightened to a degree that is just a ridiculous number and extremely ludicrous. The government has no business in exploiting that much money from someone.

[catsi563]

Actually its not ridiuclous at all. under Ike Eisenhower the rate for that tax bracket was exactly 90% and the economy was perfectly fine. there was a greater equality of wealth distribution along all social strata and the Economy was in the black consistently.

[Greed-Sama]

Actually its not ridiuclous at all. under Ike Eisenhower the rate for that tax bracket was exactly 90% and the economy was perfectly fine. there was a greater equality of wealth distribution along all social strata and the Economy was in the black consistently.

I'm not talking about equality of wealth, I'm talking about what the government has rights to. 90% is way overstepping the government's boundaries.

Edited by TheOmegaMan, 17 April 2011 - 10:46 PM.

[ciardha]

Actually its not ridiuclous at all. under Ike Eisenhower the rate for that tax bracket was exactly 90% and the economy was perfectly fine. there was a greater equality of wealth distribution along all social strata and the Economy was in the black consistently.

Exactly. America was at it's economic peak, and those 2% certainly still had plenty of money to spend on all the luxury items they wanted. It's pretty telling when the upper bracket was dropped to 50% earned income the US went into an economic recession within a couple of years. I remember that 1973-77 recession very well- vividly recall the shock as an elementary school age child of seeing small business after small business go out of business, and walking by block after block of boarded up small businesses in my city's downtown central business district. Yes, it's a myth told by the wealthy in the media and government that higher personal income taxes hurt small businesses. The truth is higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations helps small businesses- it levels the playing field a bit, and programs designed to help small business owners get funded. Everyone benefits from higher taxes on the wealthy, even, whether they believe it or not, the wealthy.

[Strangelove]

Exactly. America was at it's economic peak, and those 2% certainly still had plenty of money to spend on all the luxury items they wanted. It's pretty telling when the upper bracket was dropped to 50% earned income the US went into an economic recession within a couple of years. I remember that 1973-77 recession very well- vividly recall the shock as an elementary school age child of seeing small business after small business go out of business, and walking by block after block of boarded up small businesses in my city's downtown central business district. Yes, it's a myth told by the wealthy in the media and government that higher personal income taxes hurt small businesses. The truth is higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations helps small businesses- it levels the playing field a bit, and programs designed to help small business owners get funded. Everyone benefits from higher taxes on the wealthy, even, whether they believe it or not, the wealthy.

the difference between 1973 and 2011, is that in 1973 America was the world's only economic superpower. Today it is competing with China, India, and Russia. Russia has a flat tax rate, India follows a more Progressive tax rate, yet they make up for it, by paying they're workers next to nothing, and China, well places in China, have some of the lowest tax rates in the world.

[catsi563]

But China also pays its workers next to nothing and is a communist dictatorship on top not the best example.

The tax rates also werent as big an issue for the rich as you might think, due to tax loopholes, and deductions the average rich person at that 90% rate in general paid 0$ int axes on the average. Look at GE hell they alone this year paid 0 in taxes, as did BP, exxon mobil, and many othe rlarge coporations.

So the absurd notion that were choling our economy with taxes simply doesnt fly. Businesses have been making record profits over the last decade of low taxes and yet they continue to squeal poverty and destitution while laying off workers, out sourcing jobs. Oil companies are even bigger thieves given that they not only pay zilch int axes they actually get subsidized by our tax dollars to drill up oil which we dont see a dime for.

[Codus N]

Obama's report card

I think judging by this, he should have a slim, but pretty decent chance for 2012. And quite frankly, even if I'm not American, I'd give him an overall grade of B or B- and that's already pretty generous. Good, but not so good. What's your take??

[Strangelove]

Well, he might have a chance to improve it...or make that B- of yours into a C+

http://www.reuters.c...810980320110419

[ciardha]

http://blog.aflcio.o...y-11-4-million/
http://www.afscmeblo...ng-of-tax-cuts/
http://www.afscmeblo...nt-in-san-jose/
http://www.afscmeblo...ervice-workers/
http://www.afscmeblo...-against-women/

Edited by ciardha, 20 April 2011 - 12:50 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

I find it sad that Obama had to resort to doing this, but I guess he had no choice but to try to shut up those like Donald Trump, and any other simpleton who actually believed that Obama could have been made President of the United States without actually being an American:

http://news.yahoo.co...rth-certificate

[Nate River]

I find it sad that Obama had to resort to doing this, but I guess he had no choice but to try to shut up those like Donald Trump, and any other simpleton who actually believed that Obama could have been made President of the United States without actually being an American:

http://news.yahoo.co...rth-certificate

Tried and Failed.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Tried and Failed.

[Nee-sama]

Dear Bigots and Tea Party Patriots,
For years you said, "If only he would just show his birth certificate he would shut us all up!" Please man up and do what you said.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Please man up and do what you said.

Quoted for absolute truth

[catsi563]

Its racism pure and simple. Racism gave birth to it, and boogeyman politicing keeps it going.

if the mans name were Barry Alabama and he were white as snow no one would care if he were born in antartica, america, or on the freaking Moon. But no hes a black man. And god forbid we have ""black man"" in the ""White house"".

This is so fing ridiculous. Of all the 48+ presidents this one president is the only one whos ever been asked to show proof of his birth, religion, education because we all know a black man couldnt have possibly made it into harvard when a rich white boy got rejected from the same school.

This birther BS is pathetic. The man is an American citizen. I dont care whether he wa sborn in timbuktu, on the bottom of the ocean, or on Alpha bloody Centari.

his mother was a naturalized american citizen and thus his place of Birth is utterly irrelevant. He is an American citizen and is as much one as John Mccain (born in panama) could ever be.

[Nick Soapdish]

Dear Bigots and Tea Party Patriots,
For years you said, "If only he would just show his birth certificate he would shut us all up!" Please man up and do what you said.

Ah, but now several birthers are claiming that it was forged. Surprise, surprise.

Meanwhile, supposedly from Fox News.



It's not breaking news anymore so I couldn't confirm it. Instead, they have a full page image of the birth certificate and eight articles about it. (CNN is more interested in the storms in the south and the royal wedding.)

And somewhat related, I got a laugh out of this poll where a majority of Americans are uncertain that Donald Trump was born in America.

[catsi563]

its time for Donald trump to release his tax returns, since President Obama released his birth certificate, and he said hed relase his financials when the president did so.

[Nate River]

Dear Bigots and Tea Party Patriots,
For years you said, "If only he would just show his birth certificate he would shut us all up!" Please man up and do what you said.

I don't think you understand the mind of a conspiracy theorist very well.

From Steve Den Beste over at hotair.com: http://hotair.com/gr...wn-but-not-out/. I think his take sums it up well.

I wonder if they realize that if they succeed Joe Biden is President. He shares the same political philosphy; his foot-in-mouth disease is infinitely worse (J-O-B-S), and he's about half as bright as Obama. It's kinda like the years of impeach Bush...if you do so, especially prior to 2007 Richard Cheney (or if you nail him too--Language filter is actually censoring his name...you can't use the first name D-I-C-K without the filter it seems...) or the Republican Speaker; wasn't it DeLay?

Second, I can't seriously believe you or catsi think that if the same set set of events had transpired for say, Bill Clinton, that birthers wouldn't have been pushing the issue. It's an opprotunity to easily remove a President they hate and to do so immediately. That white guy got impeached over Monica Lewinsky.

The Birthers might be nutjobs, but I haven't seen a lot of actual evidence they are racists.

Ah, but now several birthers are claiming that it was forged. Surprise, surprise.

Did anyone actually believe this would kill this issue? For some it will, but for the hard core believers no evidence exists that will ever satisfy them. It's in the very nature of conspiracy theories.

royal wedding

Can't wait until that dies too...I get so bored seeing coverage of that. I hear a lot of Brits are bored to tears by it too.

[Nick Soapdish]

I wonder if they realize that if they succeed Joe Biden is President. He shares the same political philosphy; his foot-in-mouth disease is infinitely worse (J-O-B-S), and he's about half as bright as Obama. It's kinda like the years of impeach Bush...if you do so, especially prior to 2007 Richard Cheney (or if you nail him too--Language filter is actually censoring his name...you can't use the first name D-I-C-K without the filter it seems...) or the Republican Speaker; wasn't it DeLay?

I think it's more like Bush/Quayle. Biden doesn't have the evil genius vibe.

The Birthers might be nutjobs, but I haven't seen a lot of actual evidence they are racists.

Most of the people that are willing to stand up and make obviously racist statements are birthers, but it doesn't logically follow that most birthers are racist.

Did anyone actually believe this would kill this issue? For some it will, but for the hard core believers no evidence exists that will ever satisfy them. It's in the very nature of conspiracy theories.

I wasn't expecting it and I'm surprised that Obama bothered after all these years.

From Barackryphal

A Birther Argument --Click here to view--

...

RP: "OK, so to recap, you wanted Obama to release a birth certificate, but when he did, you accused it of being a forgery? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And you say that if he simply shared his long-form birth certificate with the public, that could be forged too? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "So you want him to release his long-form birth certificate and to have that birth certificate reviewed by a judge, to satisfy his critics and answer the questions they're asking? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if the judge affirms that the birth certificate is legitimate and it says his place of birth was Hawaii, you say it might be falsified, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And even if he proves he was born in Hawaii, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's first marriage, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that the marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his father's citizenship, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that his father's citizenship isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's second marriage, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that his mother's second marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his supposed adoption, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via adoption, you claim that he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his 1981 travel to Pakistan, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via passport, and even when you run out of citizenship arguments completely, you then claim his election is illegitimate because his legal surname is Soetoro, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "So you want to know why Obama won't take the simple measure of releasing his birth certificate, when you already have at least eight consecutive fall-back arguments you'll make if he does so, whereby you'll continue to insist that he's ineligible for the Presidency even after he proves that he was born in Hawaii?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "Y'know, if I were Obama, I think I'd save my ten dollars too."

Can't wait until that dies too...I get so bored seeing coverage of that. I hear a lot of Brits are bored to tears by it too.

I love NPR. They've devoted almost zero coverage to it. Practically all the coverage that I've seen about it is people complaining about the coverage on message boards.

[TAMU Express]

Except theyre not bankrupting the government thats a conservative myth. Social Security is a self sustaining entitty that is fiscally viable for the next 60 years if left enitely alone. If the givernment paid in full whats been taken from it that wouyld expand to the next 120 years.

Medicaire could be expanded to full coverage of every single american Adualt and child with minimal modification of the payment system and retain the full coverage. all medicair needs is some minor clean up of its administration.

Whats bankrupting us is the overt and exessive spending on the military. were spending more now then we did with inflation on WWI and II combined and were angaged in 2 ongoing civil wars and a third military intervention.

This is what brought down the soviet union in the 80s. We didnt beat them militarily we out spent them and forced the USSR to break itself financialy on its miliatry spending while its people went cold and hungry.

Its all about priorities we prioritze education, social safety nets, infrastructure and cleaning up waste and fraud while making sure that everyone including the rich and corporations pay their fair share of taxes and the nation will thrive and prosper.

Clinton raised taxes the economy boomed. 80% of americans agree that a tax increase on the upper 2% of richest americans is needed.

I agree with you on the military spending; however you are a little misinformed about Social Security. S.S did function fine with its own separate account until LBJ administration placed the S.S tax into the General Fund. That is why people talk about S.S running out. If the government had left S.S alone, it would have worked fine. The original plan laid out by Dr. Charles Townsend was quite brilliant for its time. FDR believed SS was his crowning achievement of his presidency.

Raising taxes on the rich does not fix government or the economy. It is not that simple as the media would love for you to think. There are many factors in for economic growth and taxes are simply one of them. The 90s and 50s were the biggest economic growth for America, but it was the middle class that drove those economic periods. Right now the middle class is dying.

In a consumer based economy like the United States, the government cannot simply gobble up money. This is the reason Keynesian economics were thrown out later on. Simply increasing taxes does not fuel economic growth in a consumer based economy. That's why the housing market and automobile market are used as bench marks for economic growth. Those two markets tie in your financial institutions with purchasing power. Economics is a complex beast not simply influenced by taxation and not all of our problems will be fixed by simply increasing taxes.

Edited by TAMU Express, 27 April 2011 - 10:26 PM.