19964 replies to this topic

[Inferno180]

I can see how this can be up for debate with the statement kakashi said:

It looks as if a burden was lifted off of him

Again, this one is up for perception, I think its on though I mean its true he cannot get Sasuke back by mere words, but the promise is saving Sasuke, the promise initially began for Sakura only but Naruto gained more reason for it, its the same for the reasons of being hokage and confessing to Sakura.

The whole line, I see that it can mean the promise is still on as long as Naruto saves Sasuke from his dark path, not necessarily returning him to the leaf village, the save Sasuke can be referring to saving him from a dark fate. But its acceptable to see that the promise is still on not only because of Naruto just being stubborn and going through with things, look at the confession when Sai tells Naruto how Sakura knew he would still continue with his actions, Sakura expected Naruto to continue.

I think its still on because well there is a lot of meaning for it and its been a driving factor for the development and struggle on Naruto's part when it comes to Sasuke and Sakura. Dropping it would seem uneventful, even then the promise ties into how he feels about becoming hokage (and he says the I can't be hokage line to Kakashi right after he clashes with Sasuke at the reunion) so its still on beyond the immediate confession, but after the burden lifted line, I could say, its not a matter of simply bringing Sasuke back, its that Naruto knows there is another way to save him in turn fulfilling the promise

One other person said that the burden Kakashi said, could be referring to his fear of his bonds breaking? I don't know

All we know is after these events, Sakura was happy for him and had faith in him to give team 7 a happy ending and Naruto and Sakura still have their close friendship.

[Qia]

I think the promise is still on too. One reason that it was made was so that Sakura could be happy, and since Naruto believes that she loves Sasuke so strongly he would still want to get him back for her, of course with his own reason as well.

Edited by Qia, 05 April 2013 - 01:00 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

He never said it was over, he just said that he would go after Sasuke no matter what she did. As long as Naruto does not say that the promise is off than it is still a part of why he is going after Sasuke.

Agreed.

I think the promise is still on too. One reason that it was made was so that Sakura could be happy, and since Naruto believes that she loves Sasuke so strongly he would still want to get him back for her, of course with his own reason as well.

I guess the shocking truth of her being in love with him in the end will make him very happy and not forced because Sasuke is saved and she said as Naruto is now 1st place, not a runner-up.

[Inferno180]

I think the promise is still on too. One reason that it was made was so that Sakura could be happy, and since Naruto believes that she loves Sasuke so strongly he would still want to get him back for her, of course with his own reason as well.

Rather it can be thought of like this, with the promise being dropped, doesn't that in a way remove the purpose of trying to preserve his bond with Sasuke and instead just replace it with understanding revenge?

Remember the promise was made at first for Sakura but it became more important, basically to both Naruto himself and Sakura, they were both effected by Sasuke leaving, Naruto saw him as a rival but more importantly a brother/friend. Sakura simply loved him, but we can also say was at least a friend she admired (back when he was not a revenge crazy crack head). The point of Naruto's character was his beginning as someone who had nothing, no family or friends. It was how he made his first bonds with team 7 that made him see his first real family. Part of Naruto's character is to protect his bonds with his friends and when it comes to Sasuke and Sakura, they are his first real ones. Sakura easily, he loves her. As for Sasuke, he was able to relate with him on being alone and that was it, but he still did not want Sasuke to go because he did not want to lose what team 7 helped him achieve first experience, acknowledgement for his existence and value as a person, team 7 was what he claimed saved him from his loniness, even if he was always the butt of every joke, being on team 7 was more enjoyable to him than being alone and despised like he was used to, team 7 saved him from his isolation, thats why he sees them as important, his first real family. Sasuke ran away, so in a sense Naruto felt like part of his family.

Naruto could not really understand anything about sasuke until the pain arc, he was able to experience the feeling of losing a loved one, Jiriaya, he felt Jiriaya was like a father, he lost this, it was something important, he wanted to rip Nagato to shreds. Yet Naruto was able to experience the desire for revenge and chose to not strike him down when he had the opportunity. He could have killed Nagato but he basically chose to walk the other way, stick to what Jiriaya told him and resolve his problems on his beliefs. The reason Naruto was able to understand, he figured he could use this to resonate with Sasuke and explain how he can understand how he feels and why he did it, even from the pain of carrying kurama for so long, able to explain how he too wanted revenge on the villagers for hating him and on Nagato, but it was his bonds and experiences that made him turn away from a dark path, even with his own dark path, Naruto still felt small traces of how he used to be treated despite his several friendships he made, he only fully overcame his inner darkness until he learned to put faith in himself as others did. Later on Naruto only gained new bonds after meeting his parents, this increased his drive and let him experience where he came from, his origins, this gave him a sense of his identity and who he really was. This was a bond Naruto could not technically experience like others but he was able to learn and see who his parents were and this tightened his resolves.

In that case, just dropping the promise can seem like its not about preserving his bond or family, just understanding and sympathizing with Sasuke on similar experiences.

I'd still bet that its based on both the promise and the experience of shared pain and wanting revenge. Naruto represents the light side of those similarities with Sasuke and chose to talk the honest path, resolution and forgiveness rather than revenge and rage like Sasuke.

[Sakura_Blossom]

There are a lot of boys who prefer that "hinata" kind of girls (i personally dont). They like this shyness and quietness on girls since they like to play the dominant role in a relationship. I know a lot of people like that, but well i personally will never understand how it can that awesome to have a girlfriend who never disagrees with you and does all you want. It must feel like ýour together with some kind of slave.

Dominant. Yes, that makes sense

I saw some people wondering why did some guys like NaruHina, and that reminded me of a video Sawyer7mage did some years ago. So I did a little digging, and here it is:



So what are your thoughts? Try not to bash.

I really have a problem with understanding conversations in English, as it is not my first language is different from reading and writing, is seen more as a theory and practice But I can understand enough, that explains a lot.

[Branden]

Naruto probably has the most genuine reason to love than anyone else. Sasuke was the cool kid, Hinata was just basicly leeching of his willpower, Lee just thinks Sakura is gorgeous. Naruto actually realised he loved her when he found out they were the same. They both wanted acceptance. And they are basicly soul mates. I guess thats what Lee and Naruto have in common: Good taste in women.
What I hate most about SS/NH fans is that they don`t support one of Naruto basic driving points: To protect Sakura and her smile. And I find that precious. He has all the reason to be sad, depressed and in pain, but he bottles it deep down and always puts on a smile around Sakura. Even when it hurt him to hell, like when she hugged Sasuke.
Sasuke also had somewhat of a tragic past but he goes all emo about it: IM SAD: EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE SAD.

Naruto deserves Sakuras love because of a simple prinicpal:

I`m sad. Why should she be sad aswell? vs I`m sad and angry. Why should she be happy?

I would probably ship NS even if Sakura didn`t have such a big change of heart. Because when it comes down to it, he risked his life and his happiness for her. Doesn`t he finaly deserve some happiness of his own. And what brings him the happiness is Sakura`s smile.

that logic goes both ways, though it's clearer for Naruto than it is for Sakura.
They both have a selfless relationship with the other and that's why this pairing is so much healthier and meaningful than NH/SS

I can really understand why NH has many fans, at least the female part. I mean, most of them are like Hinata, imagine that a girl is in school, she sees the most popular guy, but is too shy to talk to him, so she wonders one day have the courage to declare themselves, and that day he also shows that he liked her and they will be happy forever. It is the reality of many girls, so I can really understand why they both cheer for her because it's like their own history. It's like a fairy tale, that's what stories and children's films make us want.

Some exceptions of girls, on the other hand, prefer this real love that Naruto and Sakura have, they grew up together, they lead a life together, know and understand. That is true love. Although I know it's hard to give up such an ideal - fairy tale with a happy ending. But I really can not understand how the boys may like that kind of attitude, my only theory is that it should do well to your ego, having a girl always looking at his back. Still, I do not make much sense.

Yea he had the hots for her. Again can we blame the guy? She is cute and thats all the reason he needed.

@ Sakura_Blossom

Well it`s simple but it`s not.

Like you said many girls can connect with Hinata. Il try to do a quick demographic of pairing supporters:

NS: Guys who are looking for soul-mates, girls who are looking for soul mates, guys who were rejected by a girl and yet never gave up (im one of them btw).
NH: Girls who are shy or unpopular, jocks (dumb guys) who like boobs and one night stands.
SS: I don`t really know. But I guess its the unpopular girls who have the hots for the popular guys. And we mustn`t forget the women hitters.
LeeSaku: Those creepy guys who have the hots for a random girl (Sorry Lee I like ya, but your kinda creepy at times)

All In all I think we need to ask ourselves what the message could be from the pairings, here are my opinions on this:

NS: True love takes time, patience and selfsacrifice, but will ultimatly be that much rewarding./ Not every love is good love and theres someone special for you where you werent looking.
NH: There is always someone who will love you and will settle with being the second choice./ If your love doesn`t work out go for the first girl that comes your way. /Stalking is great for a relationship.
SS: Hooking up with smart hot chick to annoy your best friend is a good idea / Love is blind and shows no limit.


Which of these do you guys think sends the best message: My opinion NS, the rest kind of sound like criminal implications.



Also, how bored would Naruto be with Hinata. The oposites attract theory works only with the Guy & Girl Sitcoms. Naruto and Hinata could not share a prolonged conversation or fun sexy time at night. I just don`t see it.

seriously guys? People don't always have to relate to a pairing to like it, most people don't. sure it's easy to try and generalize people based of off decade old steotypes but in reality the reason people choose ships is because of the characters they like.

Sakura was made to be an unlikable character right off the bat, because of that nobody ever cared or acknowledge when her character developed. they kept their hatred towards Sakura and noticed how Hinata was this beautiful girl who's so caring and sweet and cute and whatever else and decided "Hey she seems much better than that Sakura B**ch!" The majority of people with this opinion come from countries like the US that (generally speaking) know nothing of Japanese culture.
The type of NH fan I just mentioned have 1 thing on their side : Legion
They are extremely vocal and usually are quick to amass support for their cause. The only problem of course is their blatant ignorance of the manga and refusal to accept developments of characters that arent Hinata. This type of fan is the worst that the NH fandom has to offer and shouldn't be used as an excuse to bash their entire fandom.

That said as far as SS goes it's mainly just a popular romantic cliche. girl loves the badboy and tries to make him good, happily ever after. Sasuke being the cool badboy and Sakura being the innocent girl who's fallen for him. I don't quite understand it but I know that it makes for popular romance. Yeah it's that simple. A fantasy that most people know is just that, fantasy. It's the same reason why incest is popular even though the common opinion is that it would be creepy and disgusting.
FANTASY


So now we have the 3rd fan, who doesnt actually support NH or SS because they like the pairing, but rather because it doesnt get in the way of their own while also supporting their own.
Example: How can we make sure that Naruto and Sakura don't get together? We'll just say Sakura will never leave Sasuke, that way NaruHina has no obstacles.

At this point it's worth mentioning that there are a small minority of fans on both these ships that don't fall into these arbitrary archetypes I just listed. They are unfortunetly overshadowed by the vocal community.


As far as NaruSaku fans go I'll admit it's hard to generalize since from what I can tell we all have different reasons. If there's one thing that I think we all have in common is that we support Naruto and his goals.


As for the dynamics of a NaruSaku relationship, we've already seen that in their average day to day life. Imagine that but with a lot of NaruSaku moments.

[Inferno180]

that logic goes both ways, though it's clearer for Naruto than it is for Sakura.
They both have a selfless relationship with the other and that's why this pairing is so much healthier and meaningful than NH/SS





seriously guys? People don't always have to relate to a pairing to like it, most people don't. sure it's easy to try and generalize people based of off decade old steotypes but in reality the reason people choose ships is because of the characters they like.

Sakura was made to be an unlikable character right off the bat, because of that nobody ever cared or acknowledge when her character developed. they kept their hatred towards Sakura and noticed how Hinata was this beautiful girl who's so caring and sweet and cute and whatever else and decided "Hey she seems much better than that Sakura B**ch!" The majority of people with this opinion come from countries like the US that (generally speaking) know nothing of Japanese culture.
The type of NH fan I just mentioned have 1 thing on their side : Legion
They are extremely vocal and usually are quick to amass support for their cause. The only problem of course is their blatant ignorance of the manga and refusal to accept developments of characters that arent Hinata. This type of fan is the worst that the NH fandom has to offer and shouldn't be used as an excuse to bash their entire fandom.

That said as far as SS goes it's mainly just a popular romantic cliche. girl loves the badboy and tries to make him good, happily ever after. Sasuke being the cool badboy and Sakura being the innocent girl who's fallen for him. I don't quite understand it but I know that it makes for popular romance. Yeah it's that simple. A fantasy that most people know is just that, fantasy. It's the same reason why incest is popular even though the common opinion is that it would be creepy and disgusting.
FANTASY


So now we have the 3rd fan, who doesnt actually support NH or SS because they like the pairing, but rather because it doesnt get in the way of their own while also supporting their own.
Example: How can we make sure that Naruto and Sakura don't get together? We'll just say Sakura will never leave Sasuke, that way NaruHina has no obstacles.

At this point it's worth mentioning that there are a small minority of fans on both these ships that don't fall into these arbitrary archetypes I just listed. They are unfortunetly overshadowed by the vocal community.


As far as NaruSaku fans go I'll admit it's hard to generalize since from what I can tell we all have different reasons. If there's one thing that I think we all have in common is that we support Naruto and his goals.


As for the dynamics of a NaruSaku relationship, we've already seen that in their average day to day life. Imagine that but with a lot of NaruSaku moments.

So NaruHina is legion? Kinda makes me want to go play castlevania now, jokes aside, its bad when the majority of a fanbase gives a bad image. One thing to add with what you said, to them its just stash Sakura away or destory her character development to go to Sasuke. One thing about character development, its about progress not regression. The majority of the fans know Sakura's biggest negative trait is her love for Sasuke, just saying, it would not be good and ruin the heroine's purpose to just keep this. Its would not be good for Sakura to keep this yet they sometimes act like it would be good so that the manga could lead to SS or rather fanfiction land.

[swagosaurus]

So NaruHina is legion? Kinda makes me want to go play castlevania now,

Dude, I love Castlevania.

[Sakura_Blossom]

that logic goes both ways, though it's clearer for Naruto than it is for Sakura.
They both have a selfless relationship with the other and that's why this pairing is so much healthier and meaningful than NH/SS





seriously guys? People don't always have to relate to a pairing to like it, most people don't. sure it's easy to try and generalize people based of off decade old steotypes but in reality the reason people choose ships is because of the characters they like.

Sakura was made to be an unlikable character right off the bat, because of that nobody ever cared or acknowledge when her character developed. they kept their hatred towards Sakura and noticed how Hinata was this beautiful girl who's so caring and sweet and cute and whatever else and decided "Hey she seems much better than that Sakura B**ch!" The majority of people with this opinion come from countries like the US that (generally speaking) know nothing of Japanese culture.
The type of NH fan I just mentioned have 1 thing on their side : Legion
They are extremely vocal and usually are quick to amass support for their cause. The only problem of course is their blatant ignorance of the manga and refusal to accept developments of characters that arent Hinata. This type of fan is the worst that the NH fandom has to offer and shouldn't be used as an excuse to bash their entire fandom.

That said as far as SS goes it's mainly just a popular romantic cliche. girl loves the badboy and tries to make him good, happily ever after. Sasuke being the cool badboy and Sakura being the innocent girl who's fallen for him. I don't quite understand it but I know that it makes for popular romance. Yeah it's that simple. A fantasy that most people know is just that, fantasy. It's the same reason why incest is popular even though the common opinion is that it would be creepy and disgusting.
FANTASY


So now we have the 3rd fan, who doesnt actually support NH or SS because they like the pairing, but rather because it doesnt get in the way of their own while also supporting their own.
Example: How can we make sure that Naruto and Sakura don't get together? We'll just say Sakura will never leave Sasuke, that way NaruHina has no obstacles.

At this point it's worth mentioning that there are a small minority of fans on both these ships that don't fall into these arbitrary archetypes I just listed. They are unfortunetly overshadowed by the vocal community.


As far as NaruSaku fans go I'll admit it's hard to generalize since from what I can tell we all have different reasons. If there's one thing that I think we all have in common is that we support Naruto and his goals.


As for the dynamics of a NaruSaku relationship, we've already seen that in their average day to day life. Imagine that but with a lot of NaruSaku moments.

That seems so shallow, I mean, it should be much more than that so fervently support a couple just for liking a character. I will not continue discussing it, it will not lead anywhere. I'm having a clearer mind now after reading what all you had to say. I'll settle for this for now.

[bthug]

What if this ends up becoming a real kittened coming of age story, like naruto has to kill sasuke, doesn't become homage, and ends up hinata.

None of this is going to happen, but how crazy would that be? what would u do?

[TouKen4Life3g]

What if this ends up becoming a real kittened coming of age story, like naruto has to kill sasuke, doesn't become homage, and ends up hinata.

None of this is going to happen, but how crazy would that be? what would u do?

Like I said in Hardocre thread, suicide. Of course not, but seriously, well, someone just topped WTF scale over Evagelion.

[Dkey]

What if this ends up becoming a real kittened coming of age story, like naruto has to kill sasuke, doesn't become homage, and ends up hinata.

None of this is going to happen, but how crazy would that be? what would u do?

kitten in the fandom. But ironically not about him not reaching hokage but if he ends up with Hinata and Sasuke dies.

Personally I'd be disappointed because all of the NS interaction will be brushed off as friendship. Imagine having the confession scenes and then seeing both of them friend zoning each other.

Now the other 2 they involve only Naruto. Sasuke's death would spell failure for Naruto something he has proven time and time again refuses to accept and eventually finds a way to accomplish.

Hokageship is a bit different. For one the Hokage doesn't really fit with the ideea of peace. But something similar he will still be.

[HauntedCake]

Would Naruto having to kill Sasuke hurt his chances of NS happening???

If he had no choice other to kill Sasuke ( Cos, emo kid wants to destroy the world blah, blah, blah....) this would rend his promise a failure. Then Naruto would refuse to become hokage and i could see him exiling himself from the village in the shame of failing Sakura.

[Dkey]

Neah Sasuke won't be killed by Naruto. The only way for Sasuke to die is for him to sacrifice for Naruto or something else.

Even if Sasuke's death won't affect NS if Naruto doesn't feel like he saved Sasuke it would count as a failure for him.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

How is the promise broken? Naruto does not give up so how could it be broken, the events with pain and jiriaya gave naruto more insight and purpose for stopping Sasuke, if anything woundn't that just be more stacked on top of his goal to get Sasuke? His reasons alongside the promis?, not to mention its what makes him feel undeserving of sakura, rather giving his love for Sakura a sense of nobility and purpose for their relationship.

I'm curious, explain your reasoning on the broken promise, cause remember naruto never goes back on his word.

Pick up all naruto's dialogues before the team 7 reuniting it's Naruto saying he will bring Sasuke back which reminds about the promise, then after it he says that he will save Sasuke, the promise is to bring him back to the village not just save him, but Naruto only says he will save Sasuke not bring him back so yeah the promise is broken.

I can see how this can be up for debate with the statement kakashi said:

It looks as if a burden was lifted off of him

Again, this one is up for perception, I think its on though I mean its true he cannot get Sasuke back by mere words, but the promise is saving Sasuke, the promise initially began for Sakura only but Naruto gained more reason for it, its the same for the reasons of being hokage and confessing to Sakura.

The whole line, I see that it can mean the promise is still on as long as Naruto saves Sasuke from his dark path, not necessarily returning him to the leaf village, the save Sasuke can be referring to saving him from a dark fate. But its acceptable to see that the promise is still on not only because of Naruto just being stubborn and going through with things, look at the confession when Sai tells Naruto how Sakura knew he would still continue with his actions, Sakura expected Naruto to continue.

I think its still on because well there is a lot of meaning for it and its been a driving factor for the development and struggle on Naruto's part when it comes to Sasuke and Sakura. Dropping it would seem uneventful, even then the promise ties into how he feels about becoming hokage (and he says the I can't be hokage line to Kakashi right after he clashes with Sasuke at the reunion) so its still on beyond the immediate confession, but after the burden lifted line, I could say, its not a matter of simply bringing Sasuke back, its that Naruto knows there is another way to save him in turn fulfilling the promise

One other person said that the burden Kakashi said, could be referring to his fear of his bonds breaking? I don't know

All we know is after these events, Sakura was happy for him and had faith in him to give team 7 a happy ending and Naruto and Sakura still have their close friendship.

The promise was to bring sasuke back to the village not save him, Sakura broke the promise when she tried to kill Sasuke and she said the promise does not matter anymore, Naruto accepted it but still he wanted to save Sasuke, he knows that saving him is enough it's not about the promise otherwise he would be selfish.
She knew he would continue because he cares about Sasuke, she broke the promise because it was a burden to him, and Sai knew it, Sakura wanted to lift it and she managed trying to kill Sasuke and breaking the promise, she accepted that maybe Sasuke would never come back to the village but she wanted a happy ending to everyone.

About the last bolded yes it was just a matter of bringing Sasuke back, but Naruto had to save him and bring him back but the promise is broken, and Naruto only wants to save him, brining him back is not an objective and Sakura also knows this, she was happy because she see Naruto happy and with no burdens.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 April 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[narusakurama]

Would Naruto having to kill Sasuke hurt his chances of NS happening???

If he had no choice other to kill Sasuke ( Cos, emo kid wants to destroy the world blah, blah, blah....) this would rend his promise a failure. Then Naruto would refuse to become hokage and i could see him exiling himself from the village in the shame of failing Sakura.

Even if he does not kill him , if Sasuke does not get redeemed and remains on his path of revenge that would also make Naruto's promise a failure . Never the less , I doubt Sakura would ever hold that against him and would ever let him think that he failed her in any way . I think she would know that is exactly how Naruto would feel and would do anything she can to convince him of the contrary . I think at this point Sakura wants Sasuke to return more for Naruto then for her own sake .

And as long as Naruto will not give up on saving Sasuke, I think his promise to Sakura will always be a part of that . He loves Sakura and he knows (thinks ) that even if she broke the promise herself and tried to kill Sasuke to relieve him of the burden , it would still make her happy if Sasuke is saved . And above all Naruto wants Sakura to be happy . Saying he gave up on that promise feels a bit like saying his feelings for Sakura are starting to change , so I do not like it .

Edited by narusakurama, 05 April 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[tonga1]

Pick up all naruto's dialogues before the team 7 reuniting it's Naruto saying he will bring Sasuke back which reminds about the promise, then after it he says that he will save Sasuke, the promise is to bring him back to the village not just save him, but Naruto only says he will save Sasuke not bring him back so yeah the promise is broken.


The promise was to bring sasuke back to the village not save him, Sakura broke the promise when she tried to kill Sasuke and she said the promise does not matter anymore, Naruto accepted it but still he wanted to save Sasuke, he knows that saving him is enough it's not about the promise otherwise he would be selfish.
She knew he would continue because he cares about Sasuke, she broke the promise because it was a burden to him, and Sai knew it, Sakura wanted to lift it and she managed trying to kill Sasuke and breaking the promise, she accepted that maybe Sasuke would never come back to the village but she wanted a happy ending to everyone.

true

the promise is not a good thing, is a curse (sai words = manga facts) so that "curse" is broken.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Even if he does not kill him , if Sasuke does not get redeemed and remains on his path of revenge that would also make Naruto's promise a failure . Never the less , I doubt Sakura would ever hold that against him and would ever let him think that he failed her in any way . I think she would know that is exactly how Naruto would feel and would do anything she can to convince him of the contrary . I think at this point Sakura wants Sasuke to return more for Naruto then for her own sake .

I never see her wishing Sasuke's return, she wished he would have a happy ending, also for everyone aswell.

[narusakurama]

I never see her wishing Sasuke's return, she wished he would have a happy ending, also for everyone aswell.

True , but isn't that the same with Sasuke being redeemed and returning to the village ?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

True , but isn't that the same with Sasuke being redeemed and returning to the village ?

No, the promise is to bring him back to the village.

Think about levels of difficulty.

Normal -> Save Sasuke
Extreme Hardcore -> Save Sasuke, Bring him back to the village. (Here's the promise).

The problem is that each day Sasuke went further into darkness and comitted more crimes, seeming more than impossible to bring him back to the village and then when he found out that Sakura went to kill Sasuke, he knew that the team 7 would never be like they were on the past again.

Save Sasuke is already hard for Naruto imagine making Sasuke to live on the village that he hates.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 April 2013 - 11:03 AM.