19964 replies to this topic

[Slextrem]

He brings up some good points about Hinata, yes, but at the same time he makes so many assumptions, leaves out details, and disregards Sakura's development with Naruto entirely as well that it's hard for me to take his points seriously.

[MangaReader]

@Baguette~ As educated as those responses were...it's just all pure speculation, nothing less. The manga has not proved any of that guys post as correct. What he basically did was say "I think this is what is truly happening, but I don't have any direct proof that it did". At the end of the day, unless Kishi himself confirms it, all of what he said was just baseless writing.

[六道仙人]

He brings up some good points about Hinata, yes, but at the same time he makes so many assumptions, leaves out details, and disregards Sakura's development with Naruto entirely as well that it's hard for me to take his points seriously.

When he says hardly that Sakura failed to understand Naruto I died laughting...

Sorry but I cannot take serious that... He just twisted the situation in favour of NH...

I have just remember that the manga isn't called "Hinata" but "Naruto", the story is incentred about him, he's the destined children, not Hinata.

[TouKen4Life3g]

And therein lies the main point, that Hinata does not affect Naruto the way Sakura does. Naruto would do anything for Sakura, that much is obvious. But when Hinata has her shining moment where she tries to reach Naruto, she doesn't get to him. As for Hinata's development, sure she develops by earning Naruto's acknowledgement but that is all she gets. She has no other plot points besides Naruto.

The funny thing is that Sakura doesn't need to do anything and Naruto will see her the best support of them all. That's what Yamato tried to say but yeah, she got to figure this out on her own.

[swagosaurus]

I can't respect people like that. People who twist the mangas themes towards their favor to NH, and then completely warp the whole NaruSaku relationship into a negative and unstable one really rustle my jimmies.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I really wish I have the skill to do an AMV. I would so do one.

[Slextrem]

When he talks about how Sakura doesn't have anything that "makes her tick", I almost stopped reading his post. Sakura's drive comes from her teammates. What "makes her tick" is trying to reach a future where they can be happy together again, and she supports Naruto entirely in order to reach that goal. She even tried to take it upon herself so that he isn't shouldered with the burden of it all. Then entire reason behind why she went to Tsunade for training was so that she could get stronger to support Naruto.

... --Click here to view--

He ignored all of this.

[TouKen4Life3g]

When he talks about how Sakura doesn't have anything that "makes her tick", I almost stopped reading his post. Sakura's drive comes from her teammates. What "makes her tick" is trying to reach a future where they can be happy together again, and she supports Naruto entirely in order to reach that goal. She even tried to take it upon herself so that he isn't shouldered with the burden of it all. Then entire reason behind why she went to Tsunade for training was so that she could get stronger to support Naruto.

... --Click here to view--

He ignored all of this.

Wow, those hunting those panels really really pays off. It's like the source to all. Yes, thank you.

[Shadow1275]

Wow, those hunting those panels really really pays off. It's like the source to all. Yes, thank you.

Haha, I mean we do have every single NaruxSaku moment in the series. If he wants to post 6 pages why don't we just post Slex's collection. That oughtta do the trick.

[Baguette]

When he talks about how Sakura doesn't have anything that "makes her tick", I almost stopped reading his post. Sakura's drive comes from her teammates. What "makes her tick" is trying to reach a future where they can be happy together again, and she supports Naruto entirely in order to reach that goal. She even tried to take it upon herself so that he isn't shouldered with the burden of it all. Then entire reason behind why she went to Tsunade for training was so that she could get stronger to support Naruto.

... --Click here to view--

He ignored all of this.

Oh god, you just shot me back up into the green zone.
That's it, once I get back from the gym, I'm gonna get in there and respond to his entire essay.
Hope you don't mind me using your post in my arguments.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Haha, I mean we do have every single NaruxSaku moment in the series. If he wants to post 6 pages why don't we just post Slex's collection. That oughtta do the trick.

That's true. You know, I still didn't respond that thread "How hardcore you are" yet. I don't know how to respond to it because now, I'm feeling too good about this.

[Shadow1275]

That's true. You know, I still didn't respond that thread "How hardcore you are" yet. I don't know how to respond to it because now, I'm feeling too good about this.

I said Hardcore. Naruto and Sakura are the most realistic out of all the pairings because of their development and all the hints and moments dropped by Kishi. On the other hand, Hinata has liked Naruto since the beginning. The only problem is it doesn't seem like he feels the same. Though there is always the chance that Kishi decides to push the big red button and go more N/H. I just don't see that happening though.

[HauntedCake]

@Baguette~ As educated as those responses were...it's just all pure speculation, nothing less. The manga has not proved any of that guys post as correct. What he basically did was say "I think this is what is truly happening, but I don't have any direct proof that it did". At the end of the day, unless Kishi himself confirms it, all of what he said was just baseless writing.

Well Tbh and fair we seem to do a lot of speculating sometimes as well, Mostly about the confession and whether 615 is romantic or not. Seen as Kishi has been very reluctant to answer any of the questions about the romance in Naruto, we are all fueling our Pairings and debates on speculation of whats to come.

Example:

"615, isn't romantic, only romantic in Hinata's pov, this means that until Naruto returns those feelings, NS is bound to be canon"

Underlined: Opinion

Bolded: Speculation

It's obviously not just us doing it, NH fanbase has just as much speculation going on as well, mostly to do with:

"NS will never happen because Sakura will never stop loving Sasuke. Sasuke is going to turn good again so she will end up with him in the end and NH will be Canon as well"

Underlined: Opinion

Bolded: speculation

Just some examples not to be taken seriously...

Ok, i would like to know why all pairing fanbases are using some of the smallest and quite frankly borderline stupid arguments to support their pairing. Things such as colours, names, appearances and even basic things as opposites attact (NH - Hinata/Mina(Quiet), Naru/Kush(Loud) or NS - Naru/Mina(Farther and son), Saku/Kush(Very simliar personalities))

I'm not attacking ANYONE or any PAIRING. Just some of the arguments i see from time to time makes me wish Kishi would just put us out of our misery and spill the beans.

Edited by HauntedCake, 04 April 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[Slextrem]

Oh god, you just shot me back up into the green zone.
That's it, once I get back from the gym, I'm gonna get in there and respond to his entire essay.
Hope you don't mind me using your post in my arguments.

Sure thing.

[Don-kun]

Well Tbh and fair we seem to do a lot of speculating sometimes as well, Mostly about the confession and whether 615 is romantic or not. Seen as Kishi has been very reluctant to answer any of the questions about the romance in Naruto, we are all fueling our Pairings and debates on speculation of whats to come.

Example:

"615, isn't romantic, only romantic in Hinata's pov, this means that until Naruto returns those feelings, NS is bound to be canon"

Underlined: Opinion

Bolded: Speculation

It's obviously not just us doing it, NH fanbase has just as much speculation going on as well, mostly to do with:

"NS will never happen because Sakura will never stop loving Sasuke. Sasuke is going to turn good again so she will end up with him in the end and NH will be Canon as well"

Underlined: Opinion

Bolded: speculation

Just some examples not to be taken seriously...

Ok, i would like to know why all pairing fanbases are using some of the smallest and quite frankly borderline stupid arguments to support their pairing. Things such as colours, names, appearances and even basic things as opposites attact (NH - Hinata/Mina(Quiet), Naru/Kush(Loud) or NS - Naru/Mina(Farther and son), Saku/Kush(Very simliar personalities))

I'm not attacking ANYONE or any PAIRING. Just some of the arguments i see from time to time makes me wish Kishi would just put us out of our misery and spill the beans.

While I do believe that both fandoms are guilty of these charge something you will mostly find with NS is that most of them try to use panel to back up their claims while other try to use their personal interpretation.

Lets take for example what you said.

"615, isn't romantic, only romantic in Hinata's pov, this means that until Naruto returns those feelings, NS is bound to be canon"

I haven't read many if not any comment saying that if Naruto doesn't love Hinata then NS is still canon and about his feelings well the last time Kishi decided to show them he still liked Sakura and explained why he could not become Hokage or tell Sakura about his feeling and if I'm not mistakingt it was because he wants to save Sasuke first, we can even add his marveling face that tells the reader how much he wanted those words to not be a dream, so if we go by the surrounding, the fact that Neji just died and the fact that his mind wasn't focused on romance is quiet fair to assume that he wasn't returning her romantic feelings at that moment.


Now the other example:

"NS will never happen because Sakura will never stop loving Sasuke. Sasuke is going to turn good again so she will end up with him in the end and NH will be Canon as well"

First of all when Sakura was fangirling over Sasuke we notice those tender moments with Naruto, in chapter 13 she questions those sudden feeling for Naruto, Sai interpretation on her treatment of Naruto, Yamato's speech, Sakura's own words in her confession and Kishimoto blatantly saying that he felt like depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression.

So like I said both fandom are guilty of their charge but it's clearly obvious who takes personal fabrication and speculation to a another level.

One thing you will mostly see at the end of a NS post is them saying that it's only their personal opinion.

While the other side will treat their opinion has fact or start saying things like Sakura undying love for Sasuke, Sakura is a B because she always hits Naruto plus the B lied to him about her feelings she deserves to die, Hinata as always love, she always being there for him etc, all those bashing and praising you will see them as an extension of their on personal thoughts to justify why they can't see NS becoming canon and why NH will always work in their eye while ignoring most of NS development or calling them brother and Sister.

Edited by Don-kun, 04 April 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

I think it's quite obvious. Sasuke makes her wet between the legs, and Naruto is the guy who is always there for her. Use your knowledge of human relationships to understand how this is going to go.

^^ Quote from the debate baqette posted. I stopped reading afther this.


You know what. I made some sleey, sexual and perverted comments in my time, and slex nearly had my head for it . But this one takes the cake.

So let me help you respond to that in the most childish mature way possible.

Sasuke was eye-candy to the entire class. If any of the school girls gave a crap about personality they would fall for Naruto. One of them actually did, but it was Hinata. Kishimoto himself stated that Sasuke was a "pretty boy". And Sakura was just another 12 year old trying to prove herself by dating the popular kid.
The only time Sasuke could make her "wet" is when she was 12-13. How many girls get wet from thinking at that age? It`s even not that typical of boys then.

On the other-hand. When Naruto gets back to the village her hearth rate skyrockets, and one doesn`t simply get a 120 hearth beat by looking at his friend. Sasuke was no longer there. No more eye-candy. But we do have Naruto, who is now quite good looking and has a great personality.

Edited by StrikerTheNoble, 04 April 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Branden]

While I do believe that both fandoms are guilty of these charge something you will mostly find with NS is that most of them try to use panel to back up their claims while other try to use their personal interpretation.

Lets take for example what you said.

"615, isn't romantic, only romantic in Hinata's pov, this means that until Naruto returns those feelings, NS is bound to be canon"

I haven't read many if not any comment saying that if Naruto doesn't love Hinata then NS is still canon and about his feelings well the last time Kishi decided to show them he still liked Sakura and explained why he could not become Hokage or tell Sakura about his feeling and if I'm not mistakingt it was because he wants to save Sasuke first, we can even add his marveling face that tells the reader how much he wanted those words to not be a dream, so if we go by the surrounding, the fact that Neji just died and the fact that his mind wasn't focused on romance is quiet fair to assume that he wasn't returning her romantic feelings at that moment.


Now the other example:

"NS will never happen because Sakura will never stop loving Sasuke. Sasuke is going to turn good again so she will end up with him in the end and NH will be Canon as well"

First of all when Sakura was fangirling over Sasuke we notice those tender moments with Naruto, in chapter 13 she questions those sudden feeling for Naruto, Sai interpretation on her treatment of Naruto, Yamato's speech, Sakura's own words in her confession and Kishimoto blatantly saying that he felt like depicting an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression.

So like I said both fandom are guilty of their charge but it's clearly obvious who takes personal fabrication and speculation to a another level.

One thing you will mostly see at the end of a NS post is them saying that it's only their personal opinion.

While the other side will treat their opinion has fact or start saying things like Sakura undying love for Sasuke, Sakura is a B because she always hits Naruto plus the B lied to him about her feelings she deserves to die, Hinata as always love, she always being there for him etc, all those bashing and praising you will see them as an extension of their on personal thoughts to justify why they can't see NS becoming canon and why NH will always work in their eye while ignoring most of NS development or calling them brother and Sister.

did that come directly from youtube or something? I feel like I've read that exact same message a thousand times now...

[FoolishYoungling]

did that come directly from youtube or something? I feel like I've read that exact same message a thousand times now...

[Baguette]

@StrikerTheNoble
It's more effective to point out the double standard within his post.

My retort for that line would be:
I think it's quite obvious. Sakura makes Naruto's wood hard, and Hinata is the girl who was always there for him. Use your knowledge of human relationships to understand how this is going to go.

Edited by Baguette, 04 April 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Inferno180]

Lol not a literal six pages. It's padded with manga panels and quotes of what I said.
But if the mods aren't against it, I'll post it.

Yeah this basically sums it up:






Ok in all seriousness, its not good to try and make an argument with 6 pages worth of material, trying to pass most of it as evidence, when most of it is still just speculation.

This guy has a few very serious flaws in his arguments,

1. He is majorly stating his context on Sakura in a failed light, saying she failed and brings up the "does not understand him" argument. If He is trying to advocate NaruHina, he has to make a case on Sakura's character, as the heroine, he needs to provide more for his argument in stating how Sakura is not understanding. If anything it sounds more like his arguments for hinata are making it state like she is part of team 7 and Sakura is not, he is expanding Hinata's mentality in a limited space, if he tries to downplay Sakura, he needs to provide arguments against her for all the stuff she did for, with, and from Naruto. Basically, he would need to make that 6 pages go to over 200 or so with all the Naruto and Sakura interaction and provide the same argument from it against Sakura

2. Did he bring up the a defense for story structure and pacing? Considering logic for Naruto's character to suddenly just not love Sakura? Make sense to suddenly have a realization in stopping to love her due to a situation to she went to for benefiting him and protecting him? What about the logic of Sakura's character? Did he provide a logical argument for Sakura's own plausible character development from this point on? Could he provide an argument for logically ending Sakura's position without harming her development? The role of the promise? If he could not make an argument for Narutos own design as a character to both succeed where others failed and never give up, then that's a lost argument right there. Naruto's basis as a character is his will, that will is to never give in. The ending statement of all efforts you do can never change somone or get it them to you, what the hell does he think Naruto is trying to do with Sasuke this whole story?

3. He failed to describe Hinata's importance. Basically, to win this argument, first he would need to compare Hinata herself and her endeavors to others such as Shikamaru, Tsunade, Gaara, and even Bee. He would need to somehow explain how Hinata is in the same league as these guys beyond the pain and 615 events. Need to make a good case for Hinata who is not even in 100 chapters in a 600 chapter plus manga. He would need to explain how Hinata is not only in the same league as these other developed characters, he would need to explain how Hinata did more, and a critical moment like 615 is not enough, others have pulled Naruto back in many other ways, Shikamaru gave him aid when Jiriaya died, Bee gave him advice for his dark side, now what has Hinata done of critical importance to Naruto's own character advancement? Finally the biggest thing he failed in, where does Hinata fit into the team 7 conflict? Naruto has his bonds, Sakura is torn between Naruto and Sasukes wellbeings and the struggles she has with Naruto because of everything Sasuke did, Sasuke has his purpose in life and Itachi, Kakashi has Obito for the end of the world plan, but where does Hinata fit in? She has nothing of importance with Sasuke, so where does she just slip in?

4. The confession from Hinata and then Sakura, as he described it was basically an easy opening for NaruHina to occur, basically he is trying to put forth the argument of Naruto just jumping over to Hinata right from Sakura, yet he failed in the fact that Naruto is focused on Sasuke, he cannot just jump over him and Sakura to get to Hinata, he cannot become Hokage without Sasuke or confess to Sakura without Sasuke, so why should he just waltz right over to Hinata? Drop an important plot element on both parts just for Hinata. If Naruto feels he does not deserve Sakura due to the only thing she ever asked, why should he just settle on Hinata, How about thisby this argument he is basically advocating NaruHina as a fodder subplot, if Naruto feels he does not deserve Sakura then he settles on a lower option basically, having a relationship of no mereit by just going over to Hinata. We see NaruSaku has a reason of mereit for his character, but do we see any of this in NaruHina? If not then basically Naruto is just downgrading his value by this argument. he is basically going for no reasons and no regrets.

5. 615 is recent and young, its still open to much speculation so anything to try and argue from any side is still fair game until otherwise, but its still not enough either. NH cannot make a monumental case from this one moment when we have yet to return to it. However there is a lot for NS to argue in potential for Sakura in this same chapter due to her panel, its a simple fact, a lone panel with her expression and no thoughts being given to the reader is an open invitation, same with 540, not much on Sakuras individual development since the team 7 reunion but these are 2 pieces of foreshadowing that make some logical speculation. This is also due to the fact that there is backup, previous developments that have impacted Sakura, yet this guy did not advocate this as much.

I'm sure there are more, but just one look and there is a lot of flawed stuff, don't know why you thought that but its not evidence from what I see, its the his perception of preference this guy is arguing if anything, you don't need to be a psychology major to figure this stuff out. Basically he took what limited stuff was actually done by Hinata and tried to expand it to points where she somehow had a bigger role, its not going to help the case when this fan literally made a mountain out of a molehill. Literally to even argue this, this person would need to be an expert on Sakura and literally try explaining everything basically Slex put up and try to make it so that it was not what we thought, this person would literally need to explain how everything in the story between Naruto and Sakura is a giant miscalulation, how their feelings were failed and not understood, how critical moments only drew more distance than progress, how Hinata somehow became more important offscreen, is more important than a main character like Sakura, rather Kakashi even, how NaruSaku having the most interaction is only friendship yet still somehow descrbie that what limited development NH has is more crucial and critical to the story, also explain how NH love is better and more developed than a mere friendship between Naruto and Sakura as he is calling it.

The worst part is, this is not even half the stuff he would need to describe to prove his point, short answer, this is just another twisted NH arguement but uses a lot more class and tries to disguise opinion as evidence

Edited by Inferno180, 04 April 2013 - 05:22 AM.