19964 replies to this topic

[Baguette]

Lol not a literal six pages. It's padded with manga panels and quotes of what I said.
But if the mods aren't against it, I'll post it.

[六道仙人]

debating with SS/NH fans is a huge waste of time...

[TouKen4Life3g]

Don't forget to use Kishi's interview. What he might try to do with these panels is say that the confession was Naruto getting over his crush on Sakura. And six pages seriously? Does this guy have a life outside of anime pairings?

One NS moment to destroy all. Flashback is over and we almost done with Sasuke, so oh boy, prepare for could be final act of war (shipping).

[Slextrem]

Don't forget this either:




Naruto's reaction says it all. Let the manga speak for you.

Edited by Slextrem, 03 April 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[rikakim94]

debating with SS/NH fans is a huge waste of time...

I agree with this also from what im hearing i think the guy your debating is trying way to hard to sound smart i mean he's using psychology for a fictional pairing. really?

[Shadow1275]

debating with SS/NH fans is a huge waste of time...

Generally you post a ton of evidence, they twist around a lot of words, and it ends up feeling like this

[Qia]

Lol not a literal six pages. It's padded with manga panels and quotes of what I said.
But if the mods aren't against it, I'll post it.

Maybe just one of his points then? Just to see exactly how this guy debates.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Don't forget this either:




Naruto's reaction says it all. Let the manga speak for you.

Honestly, when you presented all of those panels, I'm really convinced that Naruto really loves Sakura with all of his heart. Something you can't really drop in a blink of an eye. He's like an anime disney character who can't drop love at all. I always like that start he had when Sakura healed Kankuro because that just shows me that he's really in love. I had that look and man, I was not feeling the same with that girl. I admit, I always like how the anime did that scene. I thought they skipped it, but instead they made it more obvious that he was in lala land.

[Slextrem]

Honestly, when you presented all of those panels, I'm really convinced that Naruto really loves Sakura with all of his heart. Something you can't really drop in a blink of an eye. He's like an anime disney character who can't drop love at all. I always like that start he had when Sakura healed Kankuro because that just shows me that he's really in love. I had that look and man, I was not feeling the same with that girl. I admit, I always like how the anime did that scene. I thought they skipped it, but instead they made it more obvious that he was in lala land.

His feelings for her are very strong.

One mistake that a lot of people are making is that they're assuming that Naruto has had a change in feelings without him actually confirming that. As strong as his love for Sakura has always been, I can't see him moving on from her off panel.

Sakura's love for Sasuke was baseless, they had little to no romantic development together, and she had no romantic thoughts for him throughout Shippuden. This had a lot of us making the assumption that she had finally moved on from her crush, despite it never being mentioned in the manga. It was a complete wake-up call when Kishimoto slapped us in the face with 540. Who was expecting that?

I feel that a lot of shippers are doing the same thing with Naruto now. They're trying to brush his feelings under the rug because of one moment that he shared with Hinata and Neji. If he's going to give up on his love for Sakura because of that, then so be it, but it won't be happening off panel. His feelings for Sakura are significantly stronger than her feelings for Sasuke ever were, yet these people are trying to argue that, even though her feelings for Sasuke stood strong throughout Shippuden, Naruto's won't? I don't think so.

Even Ino's love for Sasuke stayed in tact, and she hardly had any panel time with him at all.

[TouKen4Life3g]

His feelings for her are very strong.

One mistake that a lot of people are making is that they're assuming that Naruto has had a change in feelings without him actually confirming that. As strong as his love for Sakura has always been, I can't see him moving on from her off panel.

Sakura's love for Sasuke was baseless, they had little to no romantic development together, and she had no romantic thoughts for him throughout Shippuden. This had a lot of us making the assumption that she had finally moved on from her crush, despite it never being mentioned in the manga. It was a complete wake-up call when Kishimoto slapped us in the face with 540. Who was expecting that?

I feel that a lot of shippers are doing the same thing with Naruto now. They're trying to brush his feelings under the rug because of one moment that he shared with Hinata and Neji. If he's going to give up on his love for Sakura because of that, then so be it, but it won't be happening off panel. His feelings for Sakura are significantly stronger than her feelings for Sasuke ever were, yet these people are trying to argue that, even though her feelings for Sasuke stood strong throughout Shippuden, Naruto's won't? I don't think so.

Even Ino's love for Sasuke stayed in tact, and she hardly had any panel time with him at all.

The fact Naruto blames himself to be not worthy of Sakura says a lot. He doesn't blame the love triangle. He blames himself. That's true love if I ever see one. A man wants to be the best they can be for a girl he loves, even if they don't know that the girl doesn't really need that. Honestly, he has no reason to move on at all, while other girls do because they have no communication, never got the treatment that presents a good relationship, and/or two in the couple don't share the same level of love. Naruto and Sakura is in question but possible at the moment because Sakura has shown too many times that she deeply cares for him in more ways than one. When a NS moment happens soon, it's going to be perhaps the last rock to the head that says, "NS is the endgame. Deal. With. It." Until then, enjoy the ride.

[Shadow1275]

His feelings for her are very strong.

One mistake that a lot of people are making is that they're assuming that Naruto has had a change in feelings without him actually confirming that. As strong as his love for Sakura has always been, I can't see him moving on from her off panel.

Sakura's love for Sasuke was baseless, they had little to no romantic development together, and she had no romantic thoughts for him throughout Shippuden. This had a lot of us making the assumption that she had finally moved on from her crush, despite it never being mentioned in the manga. It was a complete wake-up call when Kishimoto slapped us in the face with 540. Who was expecting that?

I feel that a lot of shippers are doing the same thing with Naruto now. They're trying to brush his feelings under the rug because of one moment that he shared with Hinata and Neji. If he's going to give up on his love for Sakura because of that, then so be it, but it won't be happening off panel. His feelings for Sakura are significantly stronger than her feelings for Sasuke ever were, yet these people are trying to argue that, even though her feelings for Sasuke stood strong throughout Shippuden, Naruto's won't? I don't think so.

Even Ino's love for Sasuke stayed in tact, and she hardly had any panel time with him at all.

540 was definitely a wake-up call, but I also think there is a lot more behind it then just that she still has feelings for Sasuke. After looking at all the evidence, I think 540 was meant to illustrate the main conflict of Sakura between her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke. In 540, we see that she thinks of Sasuke after answering the man about the love letter, but also after he says that person must be a "Good man" meaning that she knows her feelings for Sasuke are wrong. That compounded with the fact that she agreed to kill Sasuke shows that she is beginning to get over her feelings just as Ino did. Now we don't know what her exact feelings for Naruto are, but what we do know is that based on Kishi's interview on the confession, Sakura was being stubborn and Honest, and that Naruto is close to her heart. That compounded with the hundreds of NaruxSaku moments lead me to believe that Sakura has feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke and will be forced to make a choice. But my main point is that 540 was a punch sure, but it is actually pretty good for NaruxSaku fans because it looks like Sakura is FINALLY starting to realize that her feelings for Sasuke are wrong.

[Baguette]

Wait, nvm, I'm back in the yellow/green; upon review, there are a couple of double standards and fallacies existent within his post, and he does tend to use real world psychology one too many times.
Regardless, this is still probably the most challenging NH post I've read yet; maybe you guys will have an easier time with it:

Look at it from a story writing perspective,

Then why write in Hinata's character and keep her alive?

For relationship drama in a shoen jump manga?

particularly this Team 7 love triangle that Kishimoto deems appropriate to drag out until the end of the series. Sakura, being placed in the middle of the situation, will be forcibly written to have continued internal conflicts over her feelings for both Sasuke and Naruto over the course of the remaining story (which is somewhat justified, given the author’s intent on paralleling Obito with Naruto this late in the game, with regards to such aspects as love).

Because, in reality, she must love Naruto?

I think it's quite obvious. Sasuke makes her wet between the legs, and Naruto is the guy who is always there for her. Use your knowledge of human relationships to understand how this is going to go.

Beyond that, Sakura has goals and concerns that remain independent of this romantic subplot. Other facets of her character development include such things like her master/pupil relationship with Tsunade (as touched upon during the Pain arc), and her previous development with Chiyo.

What development? She is going to become a great medic ninja.

That leaves a lot of open territory. Plus... what makes her character tick? For Naruto, it's the gaining and defense of friends. He's a strong sense of justice and loyalty - that largely defines his character. Hinata is largely the feminine example of that and has a strong 'peace-bringer' mindset - that's what makes her tick.

What makes Sakura tick?

Goals, ambitions, and character mechanics are quite general for Sakura. It's like she's just kind of floating along and the whole medical ninja thing is just what she's been good at rather than a serious passion with focused or defined goals.

That is part of the reason that I feel that Sakura is a better defined character- she is not just about romance. Hinata’s character, on the other hand, largely revolves around her love for Naruto. In practically every single one of her appearances, major or minor, Hinata’s dialogue pertains to her concern for Naruto. Even when we are given insight to her inner thoughts, Hinata is shown only to be thinking about Naruto (i.e. Forest of Death, Chuunin Preliminary Exams, Itachi Pursuit Arc, etc.). That’s what makes her come off as a bit flat; what of her subplot surrounding the Hyugas, or her teammates and sensei? She’s never portrayed as being concerned with any of those things.

This is where you and I draw two completely different conclusions. She is quite concerned about them, and Naruto has been the catalyst for her to develop the courage to do something about it - reference pages (going as far back as the Hyuuga's introduction):

Show --Click here to view--

]

... And what cynches the deal?

Show --Click here to view--

That was her not giving up and utilizing talk-no-jutsu.

And where is the evidence that Hinata has inspired change within her clan?

Sho --Click here to view--

While unlikely to have been -only- Hinata who affected this change - she was no doubt instrumental in it. As Neji said... she's 'too kind' and seeks harmony.

The thing that changed in her was that she was no longer to simply agree with others to avoid conflict, and she accepted conflict as part of establishing harmony (conflict is part of the harmony).

This is classic Taoism: the Byakugan and Hyuuga theme. If the Byakugan is to get a "tier two" upgrade - Hinata is where it's going to happen.

What happens when you take Naruto out of the picture? What remains of her character development? What is left that does not pertain to Naruto?

The same thing that happens with Naruto's character when you remove Hinata.

He would possibly have been defeated by Neji (seeing Hinata stand up to Neji was an inspiration and catalyst for his contempt of Neji's attitude - while it's possible he would have developed it on his own, it's also quite possible that he would have given out one of the several times Neji beat the bejesus out of him).

Failing that - pain would have taken him away, the Kyuubi would have been extracted, and the show would be over and everyone would be under infinite tsukuyomi.

... and failing that - he would have given into the temptation of putting everyone into a world where they lived in a dream-like fantasy free of discontent.

Remove Naruto from Hinata - and she may likely have never made it to the Chunin exams. Failing that, she would have given up against Neji.

The problem I have with Hinata’s love for Naruto is that it remains idealistic. As stated by the databooks themselves, Naruto is the image of hard work and potential to her. She loves him because he symbolizes the ideals of perserverance and desire for success. She admires him as her primary source of inspiration, and from that admiration she develops romantic feelings for him. Hinata understands one aspect of Naruto’s character- his nindo. That is the one link through which she can connect with him, hence her being able to reinforce it in Ch. 615.
Outside of that, however, what does she truly understand about him? What of his relationship with Sasuke and his desire to bring him back? What of his condition and fate as a Jinchuuriki? She only grasps one facet of his character- his nindo, and fails to see the actual person behind that nindo.

And how can you be so sure that she fails to see this?

Further, do you think those things would really get in the way of a relationship? I've lost my parents at an early age, and had some other very traumatic experiences that affect my character. Does that mean that any girl who doesn't instantly know about those things can't be a suitable partner for me? Do I have to choose from the limited list of females in my age-group who were there when it happened or when I drifted chaotically between various mental states?

Since we're discussing why A is or is not a better option than B ... let me ask where the display of inherent understanding, compassion, and support from Sakura is.

If she knows and understands the challenges he's faced in his life and the things that still chew deep into his character... why does she seemingly keep him at an arm's length?

I really don't think Hinata's admiration of Naruto is half as idealistic as you seem to think it is. And I think she understands him far, far more than you give her credit for:

Show --Click here to view--

Which leads us to:

Show --Click here to view--

Now, Itachi is somewhat of a hypocrite in that regard... but it's apparent that this issue is plaguing Naruto until:

Show --Click here to view--

Sakura tried to address this issue in Naruto's character, and failed (because she -doesn't- understand what makes Naruto tick):

Show --Click here to view--

Epic foreshadowing, that last panel with Sakura in it...

Anyway - that leads us to Sakura's attempt to get Naruto to see the same line of reasoning (that he shouldn't be doing everything on his own):

Show --Click here to view--

Sakura tried. And failed. Because she does not understand Naruto.

Itachi tried to explain it to Naruto, and he 'got it' - but it didn't take hold.

Hinata knows how to speak Naruto's language, and cut straight through to the heart of it. I'm tired of posting manga pages, and I'm sure those are fresh enough in everyone's mind that I don't need to go back to them.

For me, that is what will complete her character development: for her to realize that she can stand on her own, and not just stand by Naruto, hand in hand. Again, she needs to develop independently of him.

And how hasn't she done this? As I already stated - the consequence of develping toward Naruto is also a development of her independent character. She's not standing in his shadow - she's not really even idolizing him, anymore. She sees herself as an equally relevant person - that she has achieved parity with him (at least in terms of character).

If she didn't; 615 and 616 would have gone much, much differently.

Regarding Sakura and Naruto's relationship, our views diverge once again. Naruto and Sakura already have a strong foundation for their romantic relationship to develop upon. They already have one of the closest bonds in the series, based upon mutual support and faith in one another. What prevents their relationship from going being that, outside of the author dictated love triangle subplot, is the fact that neither of them feel that they deserve the other. Sakura feels that she never does enough for Naruto, and has caused him too much pain to be deserving of his love, while Naruto feels that he has failed in his promises and did not preserve her happiness, and has no right to pursue her affections.

Perhaps, but neither of those are likely to change.

What is Sakura going to be able to do that will make her feel deserving of Naruto?

What is Naruto going to do that is going to make him feel like he's made Sakura happy enough to be 'deserving' of her?

You're basically saying that the reason Sakura and Naruto are not already together is because Sakura lacks the exact same character development that Hinata has displayed (achieving a point where she feels valid).

Then you pass off any conflicting evidence against Sakura's deep romantic compassion for Naruto as being "a writer-forced love-triangle."

It's quite obvious, from the beginning, that Hinata and Naruto's characters were designed to inspire and complement each other. It's been that way since the beginning (see above). That's not a writer-forced love triangle. It's what we call "theming."

Hinata and Naruto have no such foundation. If Kishi were to pair them together, he would have to continue focusing on giving them actual mutual development from this point on. But as to Naruto moving on from Sakura and onto Hinata, what exactly leads you to believe that Naruto's feelings have changed during this time?

You're running off on a non-issue.

Most people marry individuals relatively new to them. They may take a few years to get to know each other - but the two start as relatively fresh acquaintances and build the foundation.

No one in their right mind is suggesting that Naruto has already made a decision and is going to be parading Hinata around in his arms after the arc (not in the context of: "I've found the love of my life!", anyway).

It's been established that Kishimoto uses parallels as a primary form of his storytelling, a fact furthered by his recent Hashirama/Madara parallels. With that, consider all the parallels Kishi places NaruSaku in. Apart from the ObiRin parallel, which is likely to be brought up again in the current conflict, there also exists the MinaKushi parallel and the original JiraTsu parallel.

These types of arguments are always very specious and should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Beyond all that, if we were to take a step back from our subjective arguments (because frankly, we could argue back and forth about it all day without ever coming close to convincing the other side that our interpretation is correct), and look at it from a writing perspective, once again.

So, out of all of those, one was actually a pairing. The others were a running gag or formed the catalyst for a war that cost the lives of tens of thousands.

Every single time Hinata has been shown in the manga, it has been to draw a parallel between her character and Naruto's.

Kishimoto doesn't even bother putting her in the series unless it is to say: "These two, right here, are made of the same stuff."

I faintly recall, though I am not certain, that you don't deem such parallels as being very strong, nor as very important within the matters of pairings, to which I have to disagree. The author really went out of his way to explicitly establish such parallels. (This was a post I made before, but it serves its purpose in this argument):

Sakura and Kushina have extremely similar personality traits; they are both designed to be Tsundere-type characters. When Kushina is introduced, one of the first things that she does is lose her temper and hit Naruto on the head. People have tried to argue that she only does this once and therefore Kushina=/=Sakura, but as Kishi portrayed her in the movie, she loses her temper and lashes out at other people on a daily basis.
We're allowing movies into canon, now?

So, you're basically saying that Naruto needs another hot-headed personality to pair with his own?

That's not, in the slightest, the relationship between Minato and Kushina. Minato was the level-headed, 'cool cat' while Kushina served as the blitzing berzerker.

As to their similar character developments: both Sakura and Kushina initially looked upon Naruto/Minato with disdain, but their dispositions towards each of the latter two changed for the better after the men proved the girls' opinions wrong.

By that metric, Ino is in the running.

People argue that Kushina immediately fell for Minato after he rescued her, whereas Sakura has not been completely won over by Naruto yet, but they forget the fact that Kushina's story had to be compressed into the pace of one chapter, so her character development has to occur at a much faster rate than Sakura's, which is gradually done over the course of the story, as with all main characters in a typical story.

... Did you honestly think I was going to try and argue that point, and try to head me off?

You just don't realize how deep you're in over your head....

Both Sakura and Kushina had deep-seated insecurities over one of their defining physical traits, and were both picked on for it.
Kushina with her red hair and Sakura with her large forhead. Both Minato and Naruto are the first to compliment each women on this particular trait (albeit Naruto having done so while disguised as Sasuke).

Show --Click here to view--

Deep insecurities about her nature....

He complmented her on her nature....

True, it's not a -physical- trait... but I really think you're trying to decode hidden messages in the ingredients list on your cereal box, here.

Most importantly, consider the fact that a major aspect of a mangaka's storytelling is done through imagery, and the way in which the mangaka illustrates is a tool for him/her to establish symbolism and parallels.
With that mindset, observe these panels (some of them are redundant, but I think you'll "get the picture"):

Pictures --Click here to view--

So, you're telling me that because two characters resemble each other... it's strong evidence that two relatively dissimilar characters (Naruto and Minato) are going to be paired with the respective member of the similar pair?

You're telling me that the -pages- (even entire chapters) dedicated to showing an intrinsic, common character element between Naruto and Hinata - the multiple points in the plot utilized to bring her out of her shell and closer to being an active part of Naruto's life....

are less convincing than a few panels that show some similar poses?



Beware of false signs of the illuminati.

The parallel with JiraTsu is also very apparent, and this is where the themes of the story also get drawn very strongly:
With his dying thoughts Jiraiya looks upon his life and notes his many failures, one of which is never getting Tsunade, the women he loved and remained emotionally devoted to for so long, to fall for him.
On of the main themes of the manga is the next generation surpassing the previous one, and succeeding where one's predecessors have failed.
With this line of logic, does it not befit the story for Naruto to succeed where his master failed, and actually succeed in winning over Sakura, the girl he loves and has remained emotionally devoted to for so long?

Not really.

This is a "Naruto is in tsukuyomi" thought process where he gets the self-centered idealistic rewards.

Naruto doesn't need to succeed in making another person love him. That's just not a realistic goal, is horribly self-centered, and destroys the idea that Naruto is the one to help bring peace and harmony to the world (since he just becomes another Obito/Madara).

The true success is finding peace and happiness in the relationship he -does- have with Sakura. He doesn't -fail- if another person makes the voluntary choice to not fall in love with him. He fails if he never overcomes that hurdle to find peace and happiness in another arrangement.

Perhaps that is the final lesson for Naruto to learn. No matter how hard you work. No matter what you endure... you cannot make another person appreciate those efforts in the way you might like.

Edited by Baguette, 03 April 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[Slextrem]

540 was definitely a wake-up call, but I also think there is a lot more behind it then just that she still has feelings for Sasuke. After looking at all the evidence, I think 540 was meant to illustrate the main conflict of Sakura between her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke. In 540, we see that she thinks of Sasuke after answering the man about the love letter, but also after he says that person must be a "Good man" meaning that she knows her feelings for Sasuke are wrong. That compounded with the fact that she agreed to kill Sasuke shows that she is beginning to get over her feelings just as Ino did. Now we don't know what her exact feelings for Naruto are, but what we do know is that based on Kishi's interview on the confession, Sakura was being stubborn and Honest, and that Naruto is close to her heart. That compounded with the hundreds of NaruxSaku moments lead me to believe that Sakura has feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke and will be forced to make a choice. But my main point is that 540 was a punch sure, but it is actually pretty good for NaruxSaku fans because it looks like Sakura is FINALLY starting to realize that her feelings for Sasuke are wrong.

Yes, I agree. She's clearly unhappy about her feelings for Sasuke and is realizing that he's not the same person that she knew, which is good for NaruSaku, but my point was that no one was expecting those feelings to still be there. Before 540, we assumed that she had already moved on, (at least, that was the case for me). That's why it was so surprising at first.

The fact that Sakura still hadn't completely let go of her feelings for Sasuke at that point tells me that Naruto also hasn't completely let go of his love for Sakura, and if he's going to, it won't be done off panel.

[TouKen4Life3g]

540 was definitely a wake-up call, but I also think there is a lot more behind it then just that she still has feelings for Sasuke. After looking at all the evidence, I think 540 was meant to illustrate the main conflict of Sakura between her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke. In 540, we see that she thinks of Sasuke after answering the man about the love letter, but also after he says that person must be a "Good man" meaning that she knows her feelings for Sasuke are wrong. That compounded with the fact that she agreed to kill Sasuke shows that she is beginning to get over her feelings just as Ino did. Now we don't know what her exact feelings for Naruto are, but what we do know is that based on Kishi's interview on the confession, Sakura was being stubborn and Honest, and that Naruto is close to her heart. That compounded with the hundreds of NaruxSaku moments lead me to believe that Sakura has feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke and will be forced to make a choice. But my main point is that 540 was a punch sure, but it is actually pretty good for NaruxSaku fans because it looks like Sakura is FINALLY starting to realize that her feelings for Sasuke are wrong.

After seeing what happened to Ino, I'm convinced that Kishi is clearing the feelings from all characters with Sasuke and even Hinata with Naruto. Naruto doesn't seem jumpy about changing his feelings. He just have to appreciate his friends' actions for him and that's all to it. There's nothing that tells him that Hinata is the one for him. Also, there's no "must come back to express my gratitude" left from Naruto because he already did it in the battlefield. That said everything about her is complete. Sakura has too many with Naruto, starting with trying to prove herself that she will do it together and none has started. It will soon and that's when everyone will be on their edge of the seat.

Btw Baquette, last line is bs. Unless I read it wrong.

[redragon88]

Even Ino's love for Sasuke stayed in tact, and she hardly had any panel time with him at all.

Ino's love for Sasuke does give one a clue as to the true nature of Sakura still loving Sasuke as well.

Many use the excuse that Sakura is meant to be portrayed as the girl that loves the boy no matter how far he falls, and therefore she'll loyally wait until Sasuke becomes good again. Love conquers all and all that good stuff.

Now, if Sakura's romantic love for Sasuke was really meant to be this "superior" feeling that makes her different from the rest of the common girls then she would be the only one that still loves him at this point. And yet we see from the Summit arc and in chapter 616 that Ino also holds those same feelings. Not to mention that Karin seems to have kept her love as well, we'll see when she meets Sasuke again.

The only reason Sakura's love comes out as stronger is because Sasuke is part of her old Team 7, but at the end of the day when it comes to the romance side Sakura and Ino seem to be equals in feelings. And at the same time they seem to be progressing down the same path of understanding that their feelings for Sasuke are not good and that they should grow out of it in order to complete both of their character development.

[Shadow1275]

Yes, I agree. She's clearly unhappy about her feelings for Sasuke and is realizing that he's not the same person that she knew, which is good for NaruSaku, but my point was that no one was expecting those feelings to still be there. Before 540, we assumed that she had already moved on, (at least, that was the case for me). That's why it was so surprising at first.

The fact that Sakura still hadn't completely let go of her feelings for Sasuke at that point tells me that Naruto also hasn't completely let go of his love for Sakura, and if he's going to, it won't be done off panel.

Can't blame you though, 540 came outta left-field especially when he set us up with that Great man line.

@Baguette
Seems like he's really grasping. The only thing that matters is what goes on the page. Not writing perspective or specualtion. Looks like hes trying to hit you with a lot of "evidence" so that you either give up or take way too much time trying to pick 6 pages apart. The bottom line is after two confessions Naruto has not responded to Hinata. Naruto has confessed his feelings for Sakura.

[Baguette]

I cannot simply disregard his arguments as grasping at straws, however far-fetched they are. It would look like the equivalent of conceding :/
Besides, I genuinely feel that he provides a good point with regards to Hinata's development with Naruto.

Edited by Baguette, 03 April 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Qia]

What really bothers me about one part of his post is the Hinata knows how to speak to Naruto and was the only one to get through to him one (about the whole doing everything on his own). He seems to forget that even after Hinata's explanation of Neji's words, it took Kurama to make Naruto realize the link between what Neji did for him, what his parents did for him, and what his friends will do for him. Kurama and Neji, especially Neji, need to be given some credit there. And I'm pretty sure the reason why Naruto thought of Itachi after Kurama said what he did to him was because Itachi had told him the same thing, so he hadn't forgotten his words either.

Edited by Qia, 03 April 2013 - 11:59 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Honestly, after what Slextrem did in that thread, I can't even see it differently anymore.

[Shadow1275]

What really bothers me about one part of his post is the Hinata knows how to speak to Naruto and was the only one to get through to him one (about the whole doing everything on his own). He seems to forget that even after Hinata's explanation of Neji's words, it took Kurama to make Naruto realize the link between what Neji did for him, what his parents did for him, and what his friends will do for him. Kurama and Neji, especially Neji, need to be given some credit there. And I'm pretty sure the reason why Naruto thought of Itachi after Kurama said what he did to him was because Itachi had told him the same thing, so he hadn't forgotten his words either.

And therein lies the main point, that Hinata does not affect Naruto the way Sakura does. Naruto would do anything for Sakura, that much is obvious. But when Hinata has her shining moment where she tries to reach Naruto, she doesn't get to him. As for Hinata's development, sure she develops by earning Naruto's acknowledgement but that is all she gets. She has no other plot points besides Naruto.