9679 replies to this topic

[Miss Soupy]

Think you misread me on that last one soupy. I dont feel that way but I have heard that particular argument used by Anti NSers innumerable times which is what I was pointing out.

Ohh ok, now I see what you mean. Then yeah, that's true, that is a really bad argument on their part.

[alexander]

It's suppose to be like that, at least all the shounen manga and anime I have watched. The concept of shounen is always that there's a happy ending after the main protagonist went through a lot of harships to fulfill his objectives, and in the end his rewarded well mainly he will get the girl he has always love. I think Kishi is obviously following this type of concept in a shounen manga.

The only difference is that in most Shonens the main female lead aways have an crush/secret crush for the protagonist since the beggining, and I think this is the main reason Narusaku is different. They didn't started as lovely-dovey friends, Naruto and Sakura had to build up their relantionship from the dust. It's funny, when I started watching Naruto, I wasn't really into romance or anything like that, but then when I saw team 7 interactions I aways tought, WTH, why Sakura is wasting time with Sasuke? Naruto is so much nicier to her, she should just spend more time with him. And when I saw Hinata, her overly shy personality bugged me, I mean, I know this is that moe stuff everyone talks about but this is too much. And her interections with Naruto aways looked so lifeless, it was boring, so I never really minded Naruhina to being with.

[Merger Knight]

Joss Whedon made Buffy the Vampire Slayer in a direct act to counter that message, although even Buffy at times reinforces that message- especially the TV show in the first three seasons. Buffy fangirls over Angel and has a subordinate relationship with him. Angel calls all the shots, he's the one that even decides when and where they have sex. Angel is the one that breaks up the relationship, Buffy is at Angel's beck and call even after Angel ends their relationship.

It's only when Buffy and Spike get drawn to each other that Buffy "grows up". Yet there were tons of fans that ardently shipped BuffyxAngel and violently hated BuffyxSpike. They didn't like Buffy being strong willed, they wanted Buffy to be in relationship where she worshiped and was subordinate to a guy. (She might have been good at fighting monsters, but relationship wise with Angel it was no different than those teen movies and TV shows as far back as the 1950's. and this was on an American TV show in the late 1990's)

I thought Buffy was tough durring her Angel Drama.

I'm not sure it had anything to do with Spike and had more to do with teh fact that she had to deal with teh world of the living again.

[ciardha]

I thought Buffy was tough durring her Angel Drama.

Yes, and note this is the first time Spike and her are allies- end of season 2. She had been feeling hopeless, and Spike (only vaguely attracted to Buffy at this point. He was still trying to salvage his rather hopeless relationship with Dru at that point, and still wanting to be a mostly evil vampire- but not the I'm going to destroy the world of the living evil that the now souless again Angel was reveling in bringing about.) talks about how much he loves the world and things like Manchester United- an English soccer team, and his enthusiasm about the world of the living actually spurs Buffy into a determined action to stop Angel and send him to the hell dimension that he was trying to inflict on this world. Spike says he'll help her get in to where Angel is, as long as she lets him and Dru go. Buffy agrees. Spike hesitates for a moment with an unconscious Dru in his arms when he sees it's an emotionally hard battle for Buffy but then looks at Dru, gives Buffy a hint of a sympathetic look, then shrugs and leaves. Buffy is able to stop Angel and send him to the hell dimension but immediate after that she sinks into a hopeless despair and ends up briefly running away from town and trying to forget she was ever a vampire slayer.

Note, it was Spike that spurred her into becoming strong enough to face what she had to do, and Spike that had absolute confidence in her abilities even after only knowing her a couple of months or so, something Angel, even at his emotional best, never did.

[Quinny52]

WOOH! UNITED REFERENCE!! Something I thought I'd never hear from anyone on here! RED 'TIL I DIE!!
...

(calms down)... excuse me.

Back on topic, I wasn't aware of the deeper parts of Buffy's relationships with both Angel and Spike (didn't watch the series enough to grasp the finer points of the plot, plus I wasn't interested in the romance side of things at the time, on this show or any other). Nevertheless, I find it interesting to know just how Buffy was influenced by the two most prominant 'men' in her life, and it's good that a comparrison can be made somewhat to Sakura's case. It isn't often you can make comparrisons to two series that belong to vastly different genres, and/or from two different cultures (West and East).

Edited by Quinny52, 27 September 2010 - 09:03 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Yes, and note this is the first time Spike and her are allies- end of season 2. She had been feeling hopeless, and Spike (only vaguely attracted to Buffy at this point. He was still trying to salvage his rather hopeless relationship with Dru at that point, and still wanting to be a mostly evil vampire- but not the I'm going to destroy the world of the living evil that the now souless again Angel was reveling in bringing about.) talks about how much he loves the world and things like Manchester United- an English soccer team, and his enthusiasm about the world of the living actually spurs Buffy into a determined action to stop Angel and send him to the hell dimension that he was trying to inflict on this world. Spike says he'll help her get in to where Angel is, as long as she lets him and Dru go. Buffy agrees. Spike hesitates for a moment with an unconscious Dru in his arms when he sees it's an emotionally hard battle for Buffy but then looks at Dru, gives Buffy a hint of a sympathetic look, then shrugs and leaves. Buffy is able to stop Angel and send him to the hell dimension but immediate after that she sinks into a hopeless despair and ends up briefly running away from town and trying to forget she was ever a vampire slayer.

Note, it was Spike that spurred her into becoming strong enough to face what she had to do, and Spike that had absolute confidence in her abilities even after only knowing her a couple of months or so, something Angel, even at his emotional best, never did.

ciardha when Buffy sends Angel to hell didn't that happened at the end of season 3?

[ciardha]

ciardha when Buffy sends Angel to hell didn't that happened at the end of season 3?

No, season 2.

Spike was only in one episode in season 3 where he was in over half of season 2 shows, including the season finale. In the one season 3 episode he's in, he returns heartbroken to Sunnydale looking for a love potion or something like that because Dru was cheating on him and dumped him (because she thinks he's no longer evil enough) when he came across her making out with fungus demon, and he was desperate to get Dru to love him. He actually ends up pouring out his heartbreak to Buffy's mother- Joyce. Spike also warns Buffy that her relationship with Angel is ultimately doomed because they'll never be able to relate to each other as friends (which is equally true of Spike's relationship with Dru), right before he leaves to find Dru again- deciding he doesn't need a love potion to win back Dru but just prove he's still an evil vampire. (Doesn't work- Dru has precognition and as soon as she sees Spike again she foresees Spike will fall deeply in love with Buffy, so Dru no longer wants anything to do with Spike.) Angel (brought back from the hell dimension early on in season 3 and has his soul back) breaks up with Buffy at the end of season 3 and leaves town.

Spike and Buffy are along the western popular fiction character types that are quite similar to the Japanese types that Naruto and Sakura are, Buffy and Spike were much darker and a lot more psychological messed up though! It takes them a lot more to get together (Spike starting out as an evil vampire doesn't help matters but it's fun to see the similarities between Buffy and Spike and Naruto and Sakura.

Edited by ciardha, 28 September 2010 - 01:45 AM.

[pharix]

when did this turn into the Buffy debate thread? ;P

[ciardha]

when did this turn into the Buffy debate thread? ;P

Oh, just a little trip down that path because there's some interesting coincidences in the characters personalities and romantic development- that I don't attribute to Kishimoto "copying" (the show had some popularity in Japan though), but seems to be the "natural" path those type characters follow in popular fiction East and West (although the model in the West tends to be a lot less happy than the model in Japan, which begs the question- why are we in the west much less likely to believe in the strength of an emotionally equal romantic partnership?)

Edited by ciardha, 28 September 2010 - 02:56 AM.

[maliousdei]

ok, putting buffy aside for a moment, there seems to be an issue in the naruto wiki. A naruhina fan is editing all that he can to make sakura look bad and make hinata look good. can't really take much of an offensive if he edits these things a lot. any advice to cope with this jackass?

[Gravenimage]

ok, putting buffy aside for a moment, there seems to be an issue in the naruto wiki. A naruhina fan is editing all that he can to make sakura look bad and make hinata look good. can't really take much of an offensive if he edits these things a lot. any advice to cope with this jackass?

Naruto wiki is a bit biased and I don't think it's our business to meddle with that site. If the person is editing things so it can make Hinata look good and Sakura bad then been there done that. Just ignore it my friend they have always been trying to make Sakura look like the ultimate villain of the manga worst than Madara. And Hinata the heroine or main protagonist of the series not caring Naruto's feelings at all, and they ignored the fact that Naruto has always love Sakura and not their princess.

[maliousdei]

yeah, point taken. plus I guess i can let it slide since kushina basically sucker punched naruhina.

btw, I'm starting to get back into the fanfic writing business for our favorite couple considering the current quality of the stories has gone down, (Not including gravenimage or catsi, your stories rock!) any recommendations for stories you'd like to see? I'll do any kind but betrayal stories or yaoi!

Edited by maliousdei, 28 September 2010 - 03:20 AM.

[ciardha]

yeah, point taken. plus I guess i can let it slide since kushina basically sucker punched naruhina.

btw, I'm starting to get back into the fanfic writing business for our favorite couple considering the current quality of the stories has gone down, (Not including gravenimage or catsi, your stories rock!) any recommendations for stories you'd like to see? I'll do any kind but betrayal stories or yaoi!

How about a time travel story, but back further than what is usually done: Current time Naruto and Sakura end up in the past just before Mito and Hashirama fight Madara.

[Gravenimage]

yeah, point taken. plus I guess i can let it slide since kushina basically sucker punched naruhina.

btw, I'm starting to get back into the fanfic writing business for our favorite couple considering the current quality of the stories has gone down, (Not including gravenimage or catsi, your stories rock!) any recommendations for stories you'd like to see? I'll do any kind but betrayal stories or yaoi!

I'm starting to feel that Kishi wants to make fun of NH. I know that he must be well aware that there's quite a number on the fandom and with that he said about Hinata in the last interview I could be right. He's showing NS more obviously know with Kushina's love story and final words to Naruto he probably thinks that people thinking that NH becoming canon in his manga it's truly a silly idea. He can't believe that after doing so much development on a obvious pairing he has in mind for so long at this time there are many who highly believe the opposite will happen with NH when he hasn't given a single hint or development of the opposite whatsoever.

Now he wants to make hints and clues of the development of the opposite pairing that they are completely laughable. But anyway this is just my opinion I'm not being cocky this is just a theory.

Edited by Gravenimage, 28 September 2010 - 09:27 AM.

[pharix]

How about a time travel story, but back further than what is usually done: Current time Naruto and Sakura end up in the past just before Mito and Hashirama fight Madara.

that could be a doosey; do they leave it alone, or interfere and make sure Madara dies, changing EVERYTHING...

[Jenskott]

How about a time travel story, but back further than what is usually done: Current time Naruto and Sakura end up in the past just before Mito and Hashirama fight Madara.

Holy Mother of God. Please, someone writes this NOW.

The only story I recall I have ever read where the time travelers journey further back than the first chapter is Empyreal Paradox by Nes Mikel (sadly it has not been updated in AGES).

[ciardha]

Now he wants to make hints and clues of the development of the opposite pairing that they are completely laughable. But anyway this is just my opinion I'm not being cocky this is just a theory.

I do think the "weird person" was a direct shot at them (because he was definitely hacked off at the rabid naruhina shippers who were writing him letters praising Hinata to the skies and trashing Sakura. For Kishimoto to make those statements about those letters means he was really angry about them. Japanese people are socialized much more than Americans are to not speak ill of others in public, especially about people who are consuming your product, they are socialized to apologize for their "poor" work and promise to strive to do better in the future.) I seriously doubt Kishimoto will make it a continuing pattern though- he'll likely just continue to do what he has, when he does show Hinata, show her emotionally moving away from Naruto and more and more toward Kiba. That solves the problem in a constructive way that he had hinted eventually happening since part 1 anyway. It likely just made him show that a bit more obviously than he would have otherwise.

Edited by ciardha, 28 September 2010 - 05:27 PM.

[ahmed]

i want to ask about something i always thinking about it:

Why the most think that Sakura was lying about here feelings for Naruto?depended on what?based on what?
and there are even very few narusaku fans who have doubts on that,why?

(Saying that she loves him only to free him from the POLT dosen't make any sense)

there alot who says"sakura was lying ,she uses naurto's feelings for here,she playing with his feelings"
Really, that statement make me laugh and can't stop laugh on it
Sakura who felt very guilty about him,care deeply about him ,thinking and fully aware of his feelings,would hurt naruto? LOL

Honestly,i dont even see the possibility of her lying ...from the first time i read the chapter(469,470)when i notice Sakura's speeking and actions that was pretty clear to me that she was tell the full truth about here feelings for Naruto

and specially these page
http://www.narutopod.com/manga/Naruto-Chapter-469/15.png.php
in these page i think the true Sakura's feelings appeare very cleary
(Loves Naruto romantically and of course still caring about sasuke)

Every time i think about why they say that and try to find somthing they depend on that she was lying(From all sides), i found more proof that she can't be lying and she was tell all the truth about here feelings for naruto

thanks to who will reply for me

Sorry i only ask alot
i was here long time ago and i didn't recall my quesion is answered before

Edited by ahmed, 28 September 2010 - 06:31 PM.

[catsi563]

thought wed dealt with this. Ill quote myself then.

The answer to a question over on the H&E boards to whether Sakuras confession was genuine and one I hope finally puts an end to any questions about its honesty.

Simply put the one notion that the Naruto fandom in general and the NaruSaku fandom in particular needs to disabuse itself from is the notion that Sakura was lying about her feelings for Naruto.

let me make this absolutley and perfectly and finally clear.

She was not lying about her feelings for naruto.

the confession can be broken down into three basic elements.

1: Tell Naruto her feelings (or Naruto I said I love you)

2: Tell Naruto that he doesnt need to pursue Sasuke any more (Or so dont worry about the promise)

3: Tell Naruto she really does feel that way about him (Or only I know my feelings)

the only lie she told throughout the confession was during part 2. In essence the confession was supposed to be about the rookies decision to kill Sasuke. Sakura had insisted that she be the one to tell Naruto.

this is the source of the angry faces and shocked faces. everyone was wondering what the heck happened, for yamato and kakashi they could tell she was holding something back, and for Lee, Kiba and Sai they were suprrised because she was supposed to tell him about Sasuke, and instead confesses to loving naruto.

It was this ambiguity that Naruto caught onto and combiend with his image of team 7 as kids firmly entrenched in his head couldnt bring himself to believe her.

this snippet from Twin Enigmas story Five by Five very adroitley describes what happens to Naruto when his picture of team 7 is shattered

Quote:
The real Sakura tore into that memory out of nowhere, a surprise attack, and the memory hangs tattered in sun-faded ribbons. It shouldn't hurt, but it does because he loved it. He has accepted the memory Sakura as truth for so long that to lose her is like being blindsided and he almost resents the real thing for destroying that image, almost

it is this shattering fo the mental image that throws him for the biggest loop. Also Sakura insistence that only she can understand her feelings. Her comment about women being ficke as the autumn Skies is a classic anime and eastern saying regarding how a woman can change her feelings.

As I've said before, Protecting someone requires you to by nature shut them out from what ever may hurt them, in this case the rookies decision would hurt Naruto and thus Sakura desired to protect him just as she did when the 4 tailed Kyuubi hurt her.

conversely confessing to someone by definition requires you to open up to someone at the risk that you might be rejected and thus hurt. this requires some courage to do as the risk can be big. Hinata only found the courage because at the time she thought she was going to die protecting naruto and thus had nothing left to lose.

Sakuras though took a hell of a lot more courage, because in her case she was not facing a life or death situation or a madman intent on killing her.

She was facing Naruto with witnesses nearby and the witnesses were her peers and friends and teachers. For a girl like Sakura this would be a big moment and she handled it well.

the only issue though was that you cannot simultaneously look left and right at the same time, and this was the root of Sakuras problem with the confession.

in conclusion for all the crap Sakura has taken for the confession the main argument is that shes lying to Naruto. Simply put this is not true. she only withheld one thing from Him and that is the rookies decision about Sasuke.

period end of statment.

[ahmed]

@Catsi
i already saw that post before and read it before (the last post in page 63 )
but you understand me wrong
my quesion was:

Why the most think that Sakura was lying about here feelings for Naruto?depended on what?based on what?
and there are even very few narusaku fans who have doubts on that,why?

i wasn't ask wether sakura's confession was true or no

I am fully sure that she tell the full truth about here feelings for Naruto


i think you don't complete reading my post
i think when you first see that was about tha confession ,you reply

Edited by ahmed, 28 September 2010 - 06:57 PM.