19964 replies to this topic

[Shadow1275]

It`s funny how we forget that Sakura`s punch is as powerfull as the first version of oodama rasengan. Just think about it. If you get hit....Which does more damage. Sakura of course.

Maybe Naruto taught her the Rasengan. Than we could see a flashback where they had a private moment together. Everybody wins.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Maybe Naruto taught her the Rasengan. Than we could see a flashback where they had a private moment together. Everybody wins.

He really could. If a brat like Konohamaru could learn it than Sakura could do it with ease. + She could do it with one hand, focus a lot more power into it, and combine it with her enhanced strenght. There goes the enemy

[Shadow1275]

He really could. If a brat like Konohamaru could learn it than Sakura could do it with ease. + She could do it with one hand, focus a lot more power into it, and combine it with her enhanced strenght. There goes the enemy

I mean she already has one hell of a right hook. I'd hate to take a Rasengan Sakura enhanced punch. Now that is true Pain

[TouKen4Life3g]

Guys, slextrem's thread is up and get ready to see the awesome pile of NS.

[Ex-psych75]

Guys, slextrem's thread is up and get ready to see the awesome pile of NS.

Well, time to multiply my faith in NS tenfolds now.

[StrikerTheNoble]

I mean she already has one hell of a right hook. I'd hate to take a Rasengan Sakura enhanced punch. Now that is true Pain

Honetsly I`d hato to imagine what her rasengan would be like. Her punch alone can take off a head.

[Sakura_Blossom]

Honetsly I`d hato to imagine what her rasengan would be like. Her punch alone can take off a head.

I find it hard to imagine that his rasengan can do more damage than its punch But it would be fun as a competition on all rasengan would even without Jiraiya

Edited by Sakura_Blossom, 02 April 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Codus N]

I suppose it depends entirely on how you define "faith." In my opinion, no, Hinata was not showing faith in Naruto. She simply recognized him. She said, "It's Naruto-kun. Just look at his eyes, you can tell. Besides that, he came to our rescue..."

How do those words or that brief scene in #559 demonstrate that Hinata understood Naruto's capabilities as a leader in this war? That she understood his goals and dreams and what drives him? That she understood who he really is, what he's fighting for, how he feels about Sasuke or Sakura or any of his closest bonds? How does it prove that she has faith that Naruto will find the right moral answer to the dilemma at the heart of the war, and that he will somehow manage to make the right things happen?

Short answer, it didn't prove any faith or understanding at all. It proved that Hinata knows Naruto when she sees him, that's all, and quite honestly, considering her fixation on him if she couldn't do that much I would really wonder about her.

As far as that entire scene in #559 goes, you'll notice that Naruto had to save Hinata. Meanwhile, when his clone appeared at Sakura's location he made the comment that he didn't have to save her because she already had the situation under control.

I've pointed out before how Naruto goes into bug-eyed panic mode whenever Hinata appears at a critical moment to "help." He did it during the encounter with Pain, and he did it again against Obito / Madara / Juubi. His reaction is not, "Oh, thank GOD Hinata is here to kick ass!" It's more like, "Oh, GOD -- Hinata is here, and now I'm going to have to look out for her because she's out of her league!"

Likewise, as I've also pointed out before, when Neji was dying Naruto said, "Why... not in a place like this!! You're the Hyuga's..." The Hyuga's what? Hope? Best and brightest? Genius? Future? In terms of Naruto's respect, there's no end to that sentence that is good for Hinata.

Hinata adopted Naruto's nindo early on by observing him from a distance, but without ever developing the confidence and guts to go with it. She never really knew Naruto or understood his personal feelings or his weaknesses. That's what makes #615 Hinata's pivotal moment of personal development. Naruto had a moment of weakness -- a momentary crisis in confidence -- something Hinata could finally see up close and understand. In #615, Hinata finally connected with Naruto as a human being rather than as the object of her affection/obsession, and for the first time she was able to reinforce his nindo -- the nindo she claimed to have adopted but was never able to really demonstrate -- when he needed it, just as he had for her many times before.

As others have pointed out, Naruto suffering a crisis in confidence was redundant. He had already been there, done that. So apart from allowing Hinata to finally grow, and allowing her to finally come full circle on her worship of Naruto and his nindo, how did her moment with Naruto in #615 advance the plot?

The proof of faith, understanding, and which girl is the main heroine was made crystal clear in #573. Consider what the two girls say:

Hinata: "Naruto-kun... I've always... always been chasing after you... even now. But... once this war ends, I'm going to stop once and for all. Next time, I'll be next to you, holding your hand... walking with you! Wait for me!!"

Sakura: "Naruto... you saved Konoha... And now you're trying to save the entire shinobi world... You always get left with these insurmountable tasks. But no matter what you say this time... we're going to be together... Not just me... We're going to all fight together this time!"

Spectacular difference.

Hinata thought about herself and about how what's going on affects her. She thought nothing at all about what the war means, why it's being fought, or about the tremendous responsibility that Naruto has on his shoulders and what it means TO HIM.

That's why #615 is a heroic moment for Hinata only, not for the story, and why it didn't advance the plot. Hinata is not connected to the overall plot because she's not connected to Naruto's goals, feelings, or purpose. Consistently through her words and actions, Hinata's character has revolved around her objectification of Naruto and her desire to emulate his nindo. I think #615 was the fulfillment of her purpose, setting Hinata on the road to closure.

By contrast, Sakura thought only about Naruto. She proved that she understands what the war means, why it's being fought, and is keenly sensitive to the tremendous responsibility that Naruto has on his shoulders and what it means TO HIM. Sakura didn't think of herself, instead she aligned herself with Naruto's goals -- thereby directly connecting herself to the plot.

So who's the main heroine again? Who's the girl Naruto admires? The girl he thinks is "great"? The girl he trusts and relies on? The girl who understands Naruto's burden and is focused on her unwavering support of him and his goals?

Oh right, it's Sakura.

From what I have seen in the manga so far, the importance of Hinata's moment in #615 is being greatly exaggerated. I think it was simply the resolution to Hinata's thoughts in #573, and to focus on it as if it is some kind of pivotal moment that elevates Hinata as the heroine of the story -- when her declared purpose and goals are not even connected to Naruto's role in the war -- is to ignore the obvious.

The resolution to Sakura's thoughts in #573 -- the girl whose declared purpose and goals are DIRECTLY connected to Naruto's role in the war -- is yet to come.



Well, not all readers are questioning the main heroine of the story. Like I said, not everyone is threatened by Hinata's moment in #615. Not everyone looks at it and questions Kishimoto's intentions or perspective. Not everyone is seriously considering the possibility that Sakura has essentially been written out of the story or might as well be, and her importance is over. I, for one, insist on waiting until the story is complete before I reach that conclusion or offer that sort of criticism.

There is "unrest within the community" because people are impatient and panicky, or downright bored and disappointed. That's certainly their right. But it is hardly uncommon for authors to attempt to create questions about character resolution -- to create tension and suspense by dragging out unresolved love triangles, motivations, etc. -- and to leave people guessing. Is Kishimoto being inconsistent, or is he attempting to create drama?

Depends on the reader.

Listen, I'm not saying I'm satisfied with Sakura's role lately. I miss her and would love to see her have some quality focus, but I believe that's coming.

And I don't disagree that Kishimoto might have made some better choices. Sometimes I think he seriously misjudges the patience, attention span, and perceptions of his target demographic.

What she does understand is that he has a desire to be acknowledged. And while it doesn't cover many other aspects of his characters, isn't it also another crucial aspect of his character such as his dreams?? one could also interpret it as acknowledging his dreams. If Kishimoto wants to build NH from that alone, then that's fine by me 'cause it's better than nothing at all.

Then I also have to really question Sakura in #573: if she really did say she would stand together with Naruto to protect the world, then why didn't Kishi put her at Naruto's side in 615?? The one moment where she could show that she stands beside him and support him no matter what happens, was given to Hinata. 573 showed her desire to support Naruto and walk together side-by-side to face the enemy. So I ask you once again with all this above, why didn't 615 happen with her?? isn't this inconsistent writing of her character?? at this point, she's about as inconsistent as Sasuke in characterization.

I don't have a problem with people feeling unthreatened by 615. The only problem I have with these people is that some of them desperately try to downplay the moment. Cut her some slack. It was significant, affected the hero's growth and moved the plot. END OF STORY.

And if this moved NH forward from here on, then be a good sport about it (this isn't directed to you, but everyone in general).

Bolded: On this, I will agree.

Edited by Codus N, 02 April 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Dkey]

Then I also have to really question Sakura in #573: if she really did say she would stand together with Naruto to protect the world, then why didn't Kishi put her at Naruto's side in 615?? The one moment where she could show that she stands beside him and support him no matter what happens, was given to Hinata. 573 showed her desire to support Naruto and walk together side-by-side to face the enemy. So I ask you once again with all this above, why didn't 615 happen with her?? isn't this inconsistent writing of her character?? at this point, she's about as inconsistent as Sasuke in characterization.

Pff that is a bit disturbing. If 615 was more than just a pep talk for Naruto then what will Sakura do in the future?

[PhenixElite]

What she does understand is that he has a desire to be acknowledged. And while it doesn't cover many other aspects of his characters, isn't it also another crucial aspect of his character such as his dreams?? one could also interpret it as acknowledging his dreams. If Kishimoto wants to build NH from that alone, then that's fine by me 'cause it's better than nothing at all.

Then I also have to really question Sakura in #573: if she really did say she would stand together with Naruto to protect the world, then why didn't Kishi put her at Naruto's side in 615?? The one moment where she could show that she stands beside him and support him no matter what happens, was given to Hinata. 573 showed her desire to support Naruto and walk together side-by-side to face the enemy. So I ask you once again with all this above, why didn't 615 happen with her?? isn't this inconsistent writing of her character?? at this point, she's about as inconsistent as Sasuke in characterization.

I don't have a problem with people feeling unthreatened by 615. The only problem I have with these people is that some of them desperately try to downplay the moment. Cut her some slack. It was significant, affected the hero's growth and moved the plot. END OF STORY.

And if this moved NH forward from here on, then be a good sport about it.

Bolded: On this, I will agree.

Why should Kishi put Sakura to narutos side? First of all Neji died and also Hinata was standing by his side holding his hand, just like she said in Chp. 573. It would be unfitting for sakura to be the one after nejis death.
It was the perfect place to give hinata her closure and fullfill her word from 573.

Dont forget the war is not over, sakuras words are still open, so shes also going to fullfill what she promised. Start complaining as soon as the war is over and nothing happened with sakura, not now.

[Codus N]

Pff that is a bit disturbing. If 615 was more than just a pep talk for Naruto then what will Sakura do in the future?

Exactly. The only thing I can see Sakura doing now is just stand by the sidelines and gawk like an idiot again and again.

That is, unless redragon's theory comes true. And it's the only thing I see left to validate her as the heroine.

@phenix: like I said, Neji's death doesn't matter. The most important thing is that he lost a friend he wanted to protect and was on the verge of breaking down. Anyone could've been in Hinata's place, like Shikamaru for instance.

Edited by Codus N, 02 April 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[PhenixElite]

@phenix: like I said, Neji's death doesn't matter. The most important thing is that he lost a friend he wanted to protect and was on the verge of breaking down. Anyone could've been in Hinata's place, like Shikamaru for instance.

No one would be fitting instead of hinata. Its her cousin dieing there and she still has family issues with him.
It would be strange to see hinatas reaction to his death just in the background.
So this scene gave hinata the development she needed to resolve her character in later chapters.

[Codus N]

No one would be fitting instead of hinata. Its her cousin dieing there and she still has family issues with him.
It would be strange to see hinatas reaction to his death just in the background.
So this scene gave hinata the development she needed to resolve her character in later chapters.

But then there's the problem of her being not very emotionally attached to him. At the very least, Kishi didn't show enough of their relationship to warrant a scene like that for her. The closest thing we had was fillers.

Quite honestly, I think I would've liked it if both Hinata and Sakura was there. Hinata would be the gentler side in giving the pep talk, Sakura would be the more forceful one. And if Kishi's aim was to crank up the pairing wars, this would've been the perfect middle road.

[PhenixElite]

But then there's the problem of her being not very emotionally attached to him. At the very least, Kishi didn't show enough of their relationship to warrant a scene like that for her. The closest thing we had was fillers.

Quite honestly, I think I would've liked it if both Hinata and Sakura was there. Hinata would be the gentler side in giving the pep talk, Sakura would be the more forceful one. And if Kishi's aim was to crank up the pairing wars, this would've been the perfect middle road.

We havent seen that much of their relationship since shes a sidecharacter, but i think its enough to come to that conclusion.
As said, this scene was to give hinata her moment to make her words from chp. 573 come true. If sakura was shown in there, it would be the same like if naruto gave her kyuubi chakra cloak. She would look like a side character like all the others.

Shes the heroine, she will get her time alone not together with a sidecharacter.

[StriderC]

We havent seen that much of their relationship since shes a sidecharacter, but i think its enough to come to that conclusion.
As said, this scene was to give hinata her moment to make her words from chp. 573 come true. If sakura was shown in there, it would be the same like if naruto gave her kyuubi chakra cloak. She would look like a side character like all the others.

Shes the heroine, she will get her time alone not together with a sidecharacter.

IMO, it still didn't feel right. Not Hinata, but Sakura. When has Sakura EVER just stood on the sideline while Naruto was clearly hurting. He was in eyes view, and Kishi has her looking ahead speechless. That's my problem with the whole thing. I guess we'll have to wait until later to see what that gaze was all about but it doesn't matter if Neji died, or Shikamaru. When Naruto hurts or wavers, I too feel like if Sakura is around, she should do something. She's done something before pretty much so why push that to the side. It's not in her character to just sit idly while Naruto is like this and in this war nonetheless.

Edited by StriderC, 02 April 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[Codus N]

We havent seen that much of their relationship since shes a sidecharacter, but i think its enough to come to that conclusion.
As said, this scene was to give hinata her moment to make her words from chp. 573 come true. If sakura was shown in there, it would be the same like if naruto gave her kyuubi chakra cloak. She would look like a side character like all the others.

Shes the heroine, she will get her time alone not together with a sidecharacter.

Wait, what?? I'm sorry, but I have to completely laugh at the bolded. You do realize you've essentially agreed she's not a significant member of the 11 or rather, his friends?? the fact Kishi excluded her in 616-617, while the rest of the 11 are shown to do their parts, helping each other, even Tenten got a panel, while she is nowhere to be seen should speak loudly what her role currently is.

[PhenixElite]

IMO, it still didn't feel right. Not Hinata, but Sakura. When has Sakura EVER just stood on the sideline while Naruto was clearly hurting. He was in eyes view, and Kishi has her looking ahead speechless. That's my problem with the whole thing. I guess we'll have to wait until later to see what that gaze was all about but it doesn't matter if Neji died, or Shikamaru. When Naruto hurts or wavers, I too feel like if Sakura is around, she should do something. She's done something before pretty much so why push that to the side. It's not in her character to just sit idly while Naruto is like this and in this war nonetheless.

Yeah, sakura could have taken hinatas role in case of shikamaru dieing or someone else, but in case of neji i think hinata was much more fitting. Also we cant expect sakura to always take this role. Kishi just had to develope hinatas character and this was the best way to do so. We are nearing the end so we have to accept that kishi need to resolve the sidecharacters first.

Wait, what?? I'm sorry, but I have to completely laugh at the bolded. You do realize you've essentially agreed she's not a significant member of the 11 or rather, his friends?? the fact Kishi excluded her in 616-617, while the rest of the 11 are shown to do their parts, helping each other, even Tenten got a panel, while she is nowhere to be seen should speak loudly what her role currently is.

The K11 are sidecharacters and sakura is a main character. So if she would have gotten the chakra cloak like everybody else, it would show that shes got the same role like a sidecharacter and nothing special is reserved for her. Sakura wasnt shown to have chakra cloak as well as she wasnt shown on the group attack, this shows, that her role is something more important.

Edited by PhenixElite, 02 April 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Codus N]

The K11 are sidecharacters and sakura is a main character. So if she would have gotten the chakra cloak like everybody else, it would show that shes got the same role like a sidecharacter and nothing special is reserved for her.

Well, then. That also means once again, this means it is contradicting with her words in 573. She clearly said she wanted to be by Naruto's side and support him and she even swore on it, so why didn't he show her at all??

And I also want to quote luffyg1 regarding the current situation:

"Surprise"

That's the word that we have to use because that's what it's come to. It's that word that's truly embarrassing because Kishi has neglected this character so much that it has lead us Sakura fans to use the word "surprise".

Surprising, isn't it? That our expectations of our heroine has steadily plummeted. Is it possible to hand over the rights to Sakura's character? Preferably to Oda?

[MoonStar]

Man this thread moves fast! Didn't know this website had this much activity.

Anyway, I'm personally disappointed in Kishi. I've said this before on this thread a couple days ago but he has treated Sakura unfairly. He beat her into the ground then moved on to shower Hinata with flowers which is even further beating Sakura into the ground. People would think he wanted Sakura to be disliked. "Can't write women very well"? He doesn't seem to have any problems glorifying Hinata for the past 3 years.

[PhenixElite]

Well, then. That also means once again, this means it is contradicting with her words in 573. She clearly said she wanted to be by Naruto's side and support him and she even swore on it, so why didn't he show her at all??

And I also want to quote luffyg1 regarding the current situation:

He surely had a reason to not show her. Its possible that she left the battlfield as well as she could be planning some kind of attack on obito with sais help. We dont know it yet, but do you really believe kishi makes sakura say that words as well as hinata and then he makes hinata fullfill those words but sakuras not? Guess not.

Just because sakura wasnt in those fight still doesnt mean that she wont fulfill what she said, honestly i even prefer that she wasnt just a small piece of the shinobi attack, it would make her look unspecial. Her and sais absence in 616 as well as 617 was just too obvious, so im sure something is up with her..