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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#15001 luffyq1

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:03 AM

She said i knew it.
The contradiction is simple, if she wanted to kill Sasuke to save him like you claim she would had a strong resolve in order to do this but she was faltering on the moment she saw him and even doubting if he was really evil until he asked her to kill Karin.
It doesnt come from someome who wanted to kill Sasuke merely to save him.

She wanted to kill Sasuke for the reasons i pointed on my previous post, to fix her own mistakes and because of her mindset that she thought that she only bought pain to Naruto so she wanted to kill Sasuke and made Naruto hate her to fix her mistakes.
She was making a sacrifice for Naruto not the other way around.


Like I said before, her resolved crumbled when she attempted to kill him. The love she has for Sasuke is definitely not what it used to be, but it's still there, which hindered her to follow up on what she was going to do.

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#15002 sushi.

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:10 AM

 

I'm not talking about a trope though, just the statement itself. The idea of loving someone enough to kill them is what makes no sense to me. It seems to me that if someone a person loved had fallen into 'darkness', they would want to search for any possibility and alternative to avoid killing them. Killing Sasuke, in my opinion, wouldn't be saving him from anything, but the people his actions would have ended up hurting.

I agree.. That moment may have proven that Sakura still loves Sasuke, but it is a negative SS moment nonetheless. Loving him is not enough. She gave up on him. She didn't give him a chance, or believe he could be saved. She planned to murder him from behind, before even verifying what he'd become(because she had only heard the things he'd done, not seen it with her own eyes). And she had also only heard he was now a criminal. She only saw how far he had fallen once she had arrived, she was very surprised, and she did not expect him to reek of darkness.

 

I understand the circumstances pushed her into a corner, but love needs faith to survive imo.


ナルサク


#15003 Nostradamus

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:11 AM

She said i knew it.
The contradiction is simple, if she wanted to kill Sasuke to save him like you claim she would had a strong resolve in order to do this but she was faltering on the moment she saw him and even doubting if he was really evil until he asked her to kill Karin.
It doesnt come from someome who wanted to kill Sasuke merely to save him.

She wanted to kill Sasuke for the reasons i pointed on my previous post, to fix her own mistakes and because of her mindset that she thought that she only bought pain to Naruto so she wanted to kill Sasuke and made Naruto hate her to fix her mistakes.
She was making a sacrifice for Naruto not the other way around.

Dude are you telling me that Sakura wasn't going to kill Sasuke because she loves him? That's heavy. :lol:

You know I still don't understand how can people actually believe that when we saw from her actions after Sai revealed the "truth" to Naruto. Not only that but we also saw from Sakura's actions before that moment, she went to Naruto. If she was so in love with Sasuke that she wanted to kill him which already doesn't make any sense then she would've gone to find Sasuke so she can kill him because she loves him, not go to Naruto in the first place. Her actions completely and utterly destroy what Sai said and that's before Sai even said those things. You know this whole Sakura loves Sasuke so much that she is willing to kill him but in the end she couldn't kill him because she loves him reminds me of something but I don't know exactly what that something is called. Oh wait I remember it's Izanami it's an endless loop.


Edited by Nostradamus, 26 February 2014 - 01:12 AM.

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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#15004 xxRomanceGirlxx

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:26 AM

Sakura's confession is one of the major NS events in the series that is still hard for me to wrap my head around. There's just so much depth, complications, and motivations. You have one character saying one thing, then another character saying another, and then you're at the point we're you're just so confused and you still don't get the insight that matters ... Sakura's. Naruto believed she didn't love him while Sai seemed to take almost a neutral stance on the matter (it felt more like he wasn't definitely saying Sakura loved Naruto but he wasn't saying she was lying either) so what exactly are you supposed to believe? Naruto? He could've been dense. Sai? Not helping much. Sakura? Nothing that isn't debatable.

 

We won't know for sure until the confession between Naruto and Sakura is re-addressed, but I always got the feeling Sakura was so screwed up mentally in that arc she didn't know what she was really feeling and because of Sai's confession, she was forced into a situation that she was not remotely ready for. Her confession to Naruto and her failure to kill Sasuke were all really clear with that.

 

Sakura meant to approach Naruto in romantic light. Sai's words about Naruto's true feelings made her seriously consider being in a relationship with him and shutting out her feelings for Sasuke all so she could make him happy. Sakura seems willing to be with Naruto and move on from Sasuke, but the problem was she wasn't doing that by her own feelings. She was doing that all on Naruto's; an attempt to free the promise and be with him. I'm not trying to say she went there thinking she didn't love or have feelings for Naruto, though it seemed like she believed she could love Naruto romantically.

 

Sakura's issue is that the circumstances made her rush into all this too fast and that was why her confession to Naruto seemed insincere at times and why she failed to kill Sasuke. Yes, Sakura wants to love Naruto and move on from Sasuke. However, in both these cases she just wasn't ready. With Sasuke, she only recently acknowledged him as a criminal and all the wrong things he did; to add insult to injury everyone wanted him dead. Sakura couldn't just turn off her emotions and chose now to forget Part 1 Sasuke without any trouble even though she tried; Naruto was very right about this. The Kage Summit Arc made her want to move on, but she can't do it overnight. I feel like the fandom and Sakura herself expected too much from her.

 

As for Naruto ...  same. Sakura was rushing things and that's how it screwed up. I don't feel like she ever gave much thought to her feelings for him before. She knew she had complicated feelings for him, but she didn't know what it was. I think that aspect remained in her confession. I do believe Sakura loves Naruto, but I think it was too soon for her to be aware of it at the time of confession. To me, it wasn't a lie or a truth. That's my take on the matter.


"I absolutely can't let you die! I can't! I won't let you die ... your stupid dream ... now it's ... it's right in front of us!!"                                                                             ----Sakura Haruno                                                                              

                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                        


#15005 redragon88

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:25 AM

 

I'm not talking about a trope though, just the statement itself. The idea of loving someone enough to kill them is what makes no sense to me. It seems to me that if someone a person loved had fallen into 'darkness', they would want to search for any possibility and alternative to avoid killing them. Killing Sasuke, in my opinion, wouldn't be saving him from anything, but the people his actions would have ended up hurting.

 

I don't know what to tell you. I showed you the trope. It's right there. I don't get why you're still confused about it.

 

I don't get what's the issue with the statement. It means that people choose to kill who they love because they care enough for them to not let them become even more corrupted. Is something like this really new to you when it comes to fiction?

 

And of course people would love to choose other options when it comes to saving people. When they go with the kill option is because they are out of any other possible option that could lead to a good ending. Get it?

 

Sakura, in her mind, was out of alternatives to save Sasuke. She concluded that any other option but to kill him would endanger Naruto too much (bad ending), and since she valued Naruto's safety as a priority she resigned herself to the kill option.

 

Killing someone you care for to prevent them from becoming even more of a monster has been done in fiction too many times. It's an overused trope.



#15006 KnS

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:02 AM

Sakura, in her mind, was out of alternatives to save Sasuke. She concluded that any other option but to kill him would endanger Naruto too much (bad ending), and since she valued Naruto's safety as a priority she resigned herself to the kill option.

 

Actually, I think it's a lot more complicated than that.  What Sakura concluded was that Shikamaru meant what he said -- that the others were going to take action to kill Sasuke to prevent a war -- and she, as well as everyone else, had been relying on Naruto too much to resolve the issue of Sasuke on his own.  
 
Sakura felt compelled to act on the Team 7 dynamic issues before the village could move to end Sasuke's life -- which included acting to protect Naruto, to release him from his promise to her regarding Sasuke, and to take responsibility for killing Sasuke.
 
The suggestion that she loved Sasuke so much she was willing to kill him to prevent his sinking any lower was speculation by Sai.  And it is speculation that lacks evidence and substantiation. 
 
Following the progression of events, Sakura finds out Naruto is in love with her and that her expectation that he will deliver on his promise to bring Sasuke back was hurting Naruto as much as Sasuke's defection.  Shikamaru then confirms that Sasuke has earned death for his crimes, and he wanted permission from her and Naruto to take Sasuke out.
 
The implication there is that Team 7 should have the first shot at killing Sasuke because he is their own.  Since Sakura knew Naruto would never do it, it was up to her.
 
Somehow, Sai took that to mean that she accepted the responsibility of killing Sasuke because she loved him enough to kill him, when it would essentially be an honor killing by one of his teammates.  I don't think Sai understood the distinction.
 

Killing someone you care for to prevent them from becoming even more of a monster has been done in fiction too many times. It's an overused trope.

 

For what it's worth, BakeNeko-Chan made it clear she understood the trope, but was not talking about the trope.  She was saying that regardless of how often it is used in fiction, it makes no sense to her personally.  She cannot put herself in that position and ever imagine choosing that option no matter what the circumstances.  
 
Honor killings exist in the modern world -- as a real life trope -- but that doesn't make such an ideological option any easier to understand if you're not from that culture.  Same with the ninja culture choosing to hunt Sasuke down and kill him rather than let him rot in jail.  The concept of Sasuke's death at the hands of one of his teammates being a preferred resolution is difficult to understand as an option of love and honor.
 
Just because a trope is common or overused doesn't mean it makes sense, or that it isn't used as a contrivance to generate angst.  Fiction is fiction, and a lot of things that happen in fiction are accepted and yet still nonsensical to those of us rooted in real life. 

Edited by KnS, 26 February 2014 - 05:12 AM.


#15007 narusaku256

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:08 AM

Ok, there are a bunch of names I would like to tag but am being just to lazy for that. Sry for that. About the statement 'she loves sauke enough to kill him', if you think about it by the usual logical way it does sound contradictory. But thinking from Sakura's point of view won't you try to save someone who once used to be your team-mate n a good friend?(always a jerk, but to Sakura he was a good friend). Now I think the circumstances made her to take decisions hastily. I mean like when we are pretty tensed and in a critical situation we all tend to make wrong decisions without thinking of the consequences, same might have happened with her AND the reason she could plan on killing Sasuke was because she loved him enough and could not see him sink any further(there were other options but the situation was indeed very critical forcing her to make extreme decisions and the strength to even think of implementing them came from her feelings, whether she was successful or not is not an issue now). And the reason I think she could not kill him was because of her memories with him and it would have been the same scenario if Naruto would have been there in place of Sasuke n vice versa. And she was willing to be hated by Naruto all her life just because she cared so much for Naruto that she didn't mind if he hated her because she killed off Sasuke. She did not plan on killing Sasuke before she made the confession. The confession merely seemed to play a function of lifting Naruto from his burden(I wish that confession was real XD, I think the confession is partly true, isn't it?). And about her feelings, it literally is not shown whether she really is willing to reconsider her feelings for Naruto and let go of Sasuke(dosen't seem this way). Yes, she can spend her life with Naruto n all without giving a heed to her feelings, but that's not what Naruto would like, will he? Because it literally seems something like forced! Apart from all this I really wish Kishi provides a better transparency to the confession by addressing it now at final stages of NS build up, so we can get a clearer picture. Well, this was all my opinion feel free if you would like to correct some points or address to new ones. And my final question, does Sakura really love Naruto or is it still Sasuke?


Edited by narusaku256, 26 February 2014 - 05:12 AM.

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#15008 PacificWater20

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:19 AM

I think we will see here very soon that Sakura's heart has changed fully over to Naruto. Her lack of trust in Sasuke and seemingly waning feelings for him are some supporting textual evidence for that ideology. Also, when Naruto wakes up, there is bound to be some reaction from Sakura. But who knows, we'll find out soon enough.

#15009 redragon88

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:32 AM

@KnS

 

To be clear, I have no issue of whether the trope makes sense in real life or not. I just wanted to point out that it's an establish literary element that has been used before and will be used again. It's not something that Kishimoto just pulled out of nowhere or that it doesn't make sense from a fictional perspective.



#15010 咲耶姫

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:48 AM

@MoonDrop04: There is a thread for the new chapter, it's a little too soon to talk about it here, some people haven't read it yet, so it would spoil them to reveal this kind of things here. 


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#15011 Hanabi

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:52 AM

after chapter 666 this is like a perfect opportunity for the rin sakura thing when naruto wakes up  :P


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#15012 luffyq1

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:59 AM

So subtle, Kishi.

 

 

 


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#15013 MoonDrop04

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:10 AM

@MoonDrop04: There is a thread for the new chapter, it's a little too soon to talk about it here, some people haven't read it yet, so it would spoil them to reveal this kind of things here. 

Oops Yeah Sorry About That lol T_T It Just Really Shocked Me To See What I Thought Might Happen Actually Is Gonna Happen!! I Just Got Hyped Up lol I Apologize!!! I'm Gonna Take It Down If I Can.....Done!!! X)

And Also I Want To Point Out To @NaruSaku4life3g If You Read This That The Theory You and I Came Up With And Discussed Did Come True!?!?!? XD

Edited by MoonDrop04, 26 February 2014 - 08:13 AM.


#15014 咲耶姫

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:13 AM

Oops Yeah Sorry About That lol T_T It Just Really Shocked Me To See What I Thought Might Happen Actually Is Gonna Happen!! I Just Got Hyped Up lol I Apologize!!! I'm Gonna Take It Down If I Can.....

Seems like everyone is doing the same, so I think it's okey. it's just that I had not read the chapter yet, when I saw your comment, even if I already knew there would be something about Gai thanks to the spoilers before the chapter release. 


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#15015 MoonDrop04

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:15 AM

Seems like everyone is doing the same, so I think it's okey. it's just that I had not read the chapter yet, when I saw your comment, even if I already knew there would be something about Gai thanks to the spoilers before the chapter release. 


I'm Really Really Sorry lol X) I Promise You Won't Be Disappointed In This One!!!

#15016 Hanabi

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:40 AM

i hope this Madara battle will be better with less characters to focus on..  naruto sakura kakashi minato gaara guy tenten (i'm looking forward to see her in action) lee obito madara black zetsu.. (11), opps and team taka (16 in total) compared to the Obito battle with tons of wasted panels on unknown shinobis.


Edited by Hanabi, 26 February 2014 - 10:42 AM.

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#15017 Superman333

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:30 AM

slight NaruSaku moment in 667 or 668. I bet that .


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#15018 Hanabi

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:11 PM

watch this valentine vid :P  


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#15019 melovechoco

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

watch this valentine vid :P  

So cute..u dont think naruto will doing that to sakura, do
u?

Edited by melovechoco, 26 February 2014 - 12:40 PM.

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#15020 Hanabi

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:58 PM

So cute..u dont think naruto will doing that to sakura, do
u?

i considered it done already, haha


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