4869 replies to this topic

[RyrineaHaruno]

I did too. Unfortunately, cable is now, for me, sitting in the living room collecting dust until I see Naruto back on CN, including Shippuden.

Yeap me too, instead I wacth other shows like the history channel and have my Tv screen as my computer screen.


This is a debate I am having.

Yeah, the first post she said is is just too funny.

I bet your the ones that support a woman staying with her husband that beats her.

I said got wacth some loony tunes or some other Shouen Manga It's mostly their for comical relief.

Comic Relief.... ha
Why don't some spongebob or rugrats if you want comic relief. Because Naruto is not revolve around some stupid Abusive, idiotic and immature Narusaku story.

Oh come on now, again go wacth other Shouen Manga before you think I am basing my belief on people taking one trait of a character and uberfing ( yeah couldn't think of a word to describe ) it.

She only hits him when he does something perverted like most Female leads in Shouen Manga do like Jiraiya and Tsunade and Ed/Winery, Love Hina.

It called the angry girl cliche. Thanks for the laugh I really need it. In most Shouen Manga the Female leads hits the main guy character. Look at Ichigo and Rukia.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 14 June 2009 - 03:51 AM.

[Jenskott]

I bet your the ones that support a woman staying with her husband that beats her.

You'd lose your bet.

This is a comic. A comic. NO real life. If you can't understand the difference, then you shouldn't be reading.

The violent girl is a classic stereotype of shonen manga and anime. It's used like comic relief since that violence is too exaggerated and irrealistic ( a girl punching a boy in orbit? Really?) to be taken seriously. If you're taking it seriously, you don't understand the conceits of the gender/medium, and you shouldn't be reading it.

Honestly... that cliche had ALWAYS been humorous. It had ALWAYS been regarded like comic relief: Akane punching Ranma in orbit, Kaori Makimura smashing Ryo with one-hundred-ton mallets, Lina torching Gourry several times every chapter, Kaoru throttling Kenshin (who was a nineteeth century Japanese male, and a warrior), Misty kicking Ash, Lum blasting Ataru with lightning bolts, Naru nearly killing Keitaro every chapter, Goku covering in fear from his wife, Sayaka constantly slapping Yaiba, Rukia kicking Ichigo...

These scenes had always been worth of several laughs, and I don't understand why all of sudden this chliche is bad, awful, and a sign of real abuse. This is comics, people. Not real life.

And not only that. Violence has been used like comic relief in comics and cartoons for DECADES.

And seriously... Sakura has hit Naruto over six times in 450 chapters. Most tsunderes hit their love interests more times each CHAPTER. akura is one of the tamest, more peaceful tsunderes I have come across. I don't understand why they complain about her but never badmouth Akane Tendo, Lum, Lina Inverse, Kaori Makimura...

Comic Relief.... ha
Why don't some spongebob or rugrats if you want comic relief.

I can do that. I also can watch Tom and Jerry cartoons and laughing while Jerry beats Tom. Or I can watch Looney Toons episodes, which also use violence like comic relief. Or ...

What is your point?

That violence IS comic relief, and it isn't to be taken seriously. If you like that cliche or not, it's irrelevant.

I love cats, but I don't weep when Jerry beats Tom.

Because Naruto is not revolve around some stupid Abusive, idiotic and immature Narusaku story.

Naruto revolves around the main character fullfilling his goals, and one of them is winning the girl he loves over. Like or dislike, NaruSaku IS the main romance in the series, and it's always developing.

Stupid? Why is it stupid? Why don't you like?

Abusive? It's NOT abusive. Keep using that argument and I'll keep saying you don't -want- understand the conceits of the gender, and you shouldn't be reading.

Idiotic? I don't see why it should be considered idiotic (you don't liking it isn't a valid argument for considering it idiotic), and you're being redundant now (you have already called it stupid). If you need resorting to spout meaningless insults and repeating them over and again, then I should think you lack from good arguments to explain your distaste.

Inmature? Naruto has fought for Sakura, has risked his life for saving her, has always put her feelings, wishes and wants above his. Do you think it's inmature

Sakura fell in love with Sasuke when she was eight and in the name of her crush, broken a good friendship, neglected her training, and always put her own wishes and wants above Sasuke. Sometimes she became quite selfish and obsessive. Kishimoto himself said her crush was selfish, and it was a mix of admiration and something similar to love.

On the other hand, when Naruto became her teammate, she began to value his dreams, to acknowledge him, befriend him, help him and protect him. She grew up. She stopped hiding her true personality and became stronger, more assertive and more compassionate (something she's ALWAYS been). She became more MATURE cause his influence. You can see that in chapter 451, whenn she's trying cheering him up despite she's more hurt and grief-stricken than him. Do you call that inmature?

I'm sorry, but your meaningless insults (because they aren't arguments) are nothing but excuses, the expression of the rage of a pairing-basher, and can't be taken seriously.

[catsi563]

dont for get the classic example. Inuyasha and Kagome.

SIT BOY!! *THUD!!*

[Jenskott]

dont for get the classic example. Inuyasha and Kagome.

SIT BOY!! *THUD!!*

That, too.

Honestly, I thought it was very funny the first time I read it.

And then I met Inu-Yasha fans thought Kagome was a b***h because she ordered Inu-Yasha sitting down.

Honestly...

[TashaJ]

LOL, the 'sit boy' reprimand in InuYasha, is definitely one of the best.
Sakura doesn't just go around hitting Naruto for no apparent reason anyway. She does it mostly when he tries to do the pervy jutsu or when he steps out of line, which makes it all the more funny to see. It's not only Sakura who hits people in Naruto anyway. Tsunade does, that girl (forgot her name) who hangs out with Konohamaru does haha, that was the funniest scene ever....sasusai!

[TwilightLink20xx]

^That last one was actually Anime filler.

I'm gonna be laughing pretty hard whenever the whole thing unfolds, especially with the amount of denial about Sakura--> Naruto actions. I can somewhat understand the ignoring of the Naruto --> Sakura stuff because a lot of it was in Part I, but the fact of the matter is that it's been proven time and time again that the thought is in the back of his head at the very least.

Oh well, they say ignorance is bliss.

Edited by TwilightLink20xx, 15 June 2009 - 05:36 PM.

[Jenskott]

I have seen SasuSaku fans claiming Sakura hugigng Naruto in chapter 450 is right like the times she hugged Sasuke back in Part I.

My question is: Is that supposed to be an ANTI-NaruSaku argument? I don't think they realizing, but it sounds like if they're admitting she loves Naruto now.

Anyway, Sasuke would never hug Sakura back, and if he didn't reject her hugs back then because they happened when he was hurt, shocked or groggy. Naruto would never reject a Sakura hug, and if he didn't hugged her back (which we don't know if he did or not, since we didn't see where his hands were), it was because he was shocked.

It's surprising how much debate that scene is spawning in spit of it's a "sisterly" hug.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Jenskott your the man serouilly I kinda of got fed up with this dude/or chick. He or she was bashing me telling me to get a life and stuff like that. I also think that the SasuSaku fans have changed their minds saying that it feels right instead of making up stupid claims like this chick did. I watched a lot of cartoons with a lot of more violence then the ones in shouen manga (EX loony tunes they shot the animals).

I tried to get her to understand the angry girl cliche and she said it was old. She even said killing Itchi was going to interfere with Naruto x Sakura. I kinda of did a at that one.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 16 June 2009 - 05:26 PM.

[Nate River]

I have seen SasuSaku fans claiming Sakura hugigng Naruto in chapter 450 is right like the times she hugged Sasuke back in Part I.

My question is: Is that supposed to be an ANTI-NaruSaku argument? I don't think they realizing, but it sounds like if they're admitting she loves Naruto now.

Anyway, Sasuke would never hug Sakura back, and if he didn't reject her hugs back then because they happened when he was hurt, shocked or groggy. Naruto would never reject a Sakura hug, and if he didn't hugged her back (which we don't know if he did or not, since we didn't see where his hands were), it was because he was shocked.

It's surprising how much debate that scene is spawning in spit of it's a "sisterly" hug.

That's fantastic! Either way the comparison makes no sense for them. They're either conceeding our point about it being the death knell for SasuSaku or conceeding that she really likes him. If it's the same as 181, then one of the two must be true.

Sisterly hug? Same thing I always say: Prove it. Tell me specifically what the difference is and how that scene demonstrates it? Otherwise, it's still the argument of convenience it's always been. As I said before, it doesn't matter what happens, if its brother/sister they can explain it away every time.

Jenskott your the man serouilly I kinda of got fed up with this dude/or chick. He or she was bashing me telling me to get a life and stuff like that. I also think that the SasuSaku fans have changed their minds saying that it feels right instead of making up stupid claims like this chick did. I watched a lot of cartoons with a lot of more violent then the ones in shouen manga (EX loony tunes they shot the animals).

I tried to get her to understand the angry girl cliche and she said it was old. She even said killing Itchi was going to interfere with Naruto x Sakura. I kinda of did a at that one.

Shouldn't waste your time. Especially, if they're making claims of domestic abuse. The trope is what it is. It doesn't matter if its "old" or not. I can understand people not liking it, but equating it to tolerating actual domestic violence is just absurd.

[harry4e]

I have seen SasuSaku fans claiming Sakura hugigng Naruto in chapter 450 is right like the times she hugged Sasuke back in Part I.

My question is: Is that supposed to be an ANTI-NaruSaku argument? I don't think they realizing, but it sounds like if they're admitting she loves Naruto now.

Anyway, Sasuke would never hug Sakura back, and if he didn't reject her hugs back then because they happened when he was hurt, shocked or groggy. Naruto would never reject a Sakura hug, and if he didn't hugged her back (which we don't know if he did or not, since we didn't see where his hands were), it was because he was shocked.

It's surprising how much debate that scene is spawning in spit of it's a "sisterly" hug.

Wait they actually used that as an argument for it not being romantic? That back hug was what got SasuSaku fans going to much. a hug to calm the inner beast and what not. They need to work on their argument.

The only factual thing we've learnt in this series is admitting your feelings gets you knocked out or dead. Happened with Sakura, happened with Hinata, and happened with Tsunade twice I believe, once with Dan and next with Jiraya, she seemed to be ready to admit her feelings and he turned up dead...So really we don't want Sakura admitting her feelings yet, because she might also end up dead...it's a Naruto-verse fact.

I bet Itachi's lover admitted her feelings to him just hours before he chopped of her head.

As for the whole violent Sakura argument makes no sense to me, I got into a massive argument with a Anti-Sakura fan who hated her mainly because she beat up on Naruto, Yet this person was a Luffy/Nami and Ichigo./Rukia fan. I argued the point that Nam/Rukiai do the exactly same thing with Luffy/Ichigo, he gets beaton up for being stupid and that's perfectly fine yet when Sakura does the same, for comic violence it's classed as abuse. And I got a bunch of guys telling me I shouldn't compare the two as they are completely different animes. I replied back that's it's perfectly acceptable, when you are making an argument you use sources from similar genre's with similar situations. That what really pisses me off, how it's perfectly accpetable in the other manga but not with Sakura, it's all published in the same Mame Mange for crying out loud.

Edited by harry4e, 16 June 2009 - 06:58 PM.

[Jenskott]

Jenskott your the man serouilly I kinda of got fed up with this dude/or chick. He or she was bashing me telling me to get a life and stuff like that.

He can't see the difference between comic and real life and he hates a fictional character like if she was real and HE tells YOU should get a life?

The irony is delicious. HE is the one should stopping reading comics or any sort of fictional story.

I also think that the SasuSaku fans have changed their minds saying that it feels right instead of making up stupid claims like this chick did.

If you're a SasuSaku fan, I suspect the "she hits him and disrespects him so they shouldn't get together" line is the last argument you would want using.

I tried to get her to understand the angry girl cliche and she said it was old.

So what if it's old? It doesn't make it less valid.

It's ALWAYS been acceptable before. I don't understand because it is inacceptable NOW, specially when Rukia, Nami or Chi Chi don't receive the same hatred.

She even said killing Itachi was going to interfere with Naruto x Sakura.

...

Indeed. And Nidaime being Tsunade's grandfather's brother, Rain Country being a rainy country and the sky being blue also will interfere with NarutoxSakura, won't it? And Naruto and Sakura getting married and raising children also will interfere. Am I right?

Honestly... That person has run out of arguments (not that he/she got many arguments for starting with), so he/she is completely grasping at straws and spouting anything ever crosses his/her mind.

Sisterly hug? Same thing I always say: Prove it. Tell me specifically what the difference is and how that scene demonstrates it? Otherwise, it's still the argument of convenience it's always been. As I said before, it doesn't matter what happens, if its brother/sister they can explain it away every time.

Well, if this is a sibling relationship, it's dangerously beginning to look like incest.

No offense, but it's a stupid argument. You can try convincing me they are good friends... but brother and sister? I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.

Moreover, before chapter 450, plenty NaruHina fans yearned for a Naruto/Hinata hug. When they got a Naruto/Sakura hug, they claimed that scene didn't imply anything other than sibling love. It didn't prevent them from ripping it off, switching Sakura and Hinata's places, though.

Shouldn't waste your time. Especially, if they're making claims of domestic abuse. The trope is what it is. It doesn't matter if its "old" or not. I can understand people not liking it, but equating it to tolerating actual domestic violence is just absurd.

Exactly.

I shall NEVER understand that. It sounds like if they don't know anything about Japanese comic-books or they need an excuse for hating NaruSaku.

The only factual thing we've learnt in this series is admitting your feelings gets you knocked out or dead.

Heh. Have you realized that as well?

As for the whole violent Sakura argument makes no sense to me, I got into a massive argument with a Anti-Sakura fan who hated her mainly because she beat up on Naruto, Yet this person was a Luffy/Nami and Ichigo./Rukia fan. I argued the point that Nam/Rukiai do the exactly same thing with Luffy/Ichigo, he gets beaton up for being stupid and that's perfectly fine yet when Sakura does the same, for comic violence it's classed as abuse. And I got a bunch of guys telling me I shouldn't compare the two as they are completely different animes. I replied back that's it's perfectly acceptable, when you are making an argument you use sources from similar genre's with similar situations. That what really pisses me off, how it's perfectly accpetable in the other manga but not with Sakura, it's all published in the same Mame Mange for crying out loud.

For the God's sake, so much hypocrisy boggles my mind! They hate NaruSaku because she beats Naruto up but they are Luffy/Nami and Ichigo/Rukia shippers?

Don't let them get away with it. That behavior IS hypocrital, and any argument for justifying it is nothing but excuses for covering up their blatant hypocrisy. Or they: 1) stop hating Sakura and NaruSaku (I'm not telling they start loving it, but they learn tolerating it); or 2) start hating Nami/Luffy and Rukia/Ichigo as well.

That I shouldn't compare them because they are two completely different animes? The three of them are shonen manga, and they are riddled with cliches and stereotypes you find in the shonen mangas, INCLUDING the violent girl. What gender each story specifically belongs to matters not at all.

[Nate River]

For the God's sake, so much hypocrisy boggles my mind! They hate NaruSaku because she beats Naruto up but they are Luffy/Nami and Ichigo/Rukia shippers?

Don't let them get away with it. That behavior IS hypocrital, and any argument for justifying it is nothing but excuses for covering up their blatant hypocrisy. Or they: 1) stop hating Sakura and NaruSaku (I'm not telling they start loving it, but they learn tolerating it); or 2) start hating Nami/Luffy and Rukia/Ichigo as well.

That I shouldn't compare them because they are two completely different animes? The three of them are shonen manga, and they are riddled with cliches and stereotypes you find in the shonen mangas, INCLUDING the violent girl. What gender each story specifically belongs to matters not at all.

Actually, I think Kishi did well with this trope. It was there, but he didn't abuse it to the degree that it was in manga's like Inuyasha or Love Hina. Naruto generally only gets hit when he does genuinely stupid things and its been pretty rare in Part 2.

[Jenskott]

Actually, I think Kishi did well with this trope. It was there, but he didn't abuse it to the degree that it was in manga's like Inuyasha or Love Hina. Naruto generally only gets hit when he does genuinely stupid things and its been pretty rare in Part 2.

Quite true. It isn't overused at all.

I find very funny when anti-NaruSaku fans reply "I know it's a shonen cliché, but Sakura is very violent even for a shonen manga chick. She hits Naruto every chapter!".

She's hit him over half dozen of times in 452 chapters. Akane has pummeled Ranma more times and more brutally in one single chapter.

I'm fed up with those poor excuses. Hating Sakura cause that trope makes no sense, and their reasons for justifying it have absolutely no basis when you check the actual story. Sakura being abusive? Sakura hitting him the whole time? Sakura being exceptionally violent among shonen manga's female main characters? Preposterous!

By the way, talking about tiwsting the manga's actual content for fitting into shipper's warped POVs, I have just seen a NH fanart. The artist's comment was: "She [Sakura] just doesn't get it. It's me or Sakura always gets knocked out when Naruto is going to make anything cool?"

It's only you. Sakura has witnessed and shared Naruto's victories and defeats, and she's been by his side when he was joyful and grieful. She saw him deceiving Zabuza, confronting Orochimaru, trusted him wholeheartedly when he fought Kiba, yelled in happiness when he defeated Neji... On the other hand, HINATA got knocked out right before he triumphed over Neji.

Everybody twists the manga's content to fit in his/her preconceived views when they read it. But I would candidly like thinking I'd try drawing conclusions based on facts, rather coming up with a preconceived conclusion and twisting the facts for fitting in it.

[Daniee]

From what I mostly see, people who dislike Sakura just generally find any chance they get to bash on her. Most of the time it involves giving her imaginary flaws. Just go to MangaHelpers and read any of the "reviews" of chapters that have Sakura in it. You'll see what I mean. To those people...I just say let them keep misinterpreting. It may be frustrating, but it doesn't change the way things really are.

[Derock]

From what I mostly see, people who dislike Sakura just generally find any chance they get to bash on her. Most of the time it involves giving her imaginary flaws. Just go to MangaHelpers and read any of the "reviews" of chapters that have Sakura in it. You'll see what I mean. To those people...I just say let them keep misinterpreting. It may be frustrating, but it doesn't change the way things really are.

Everywhere where is a Naruto talk, they always bash Sakura (I'm not sure of Viz forums for Naruto though) and treated Hinata like she's all high and mighty female. This isn't going to change. Happens in every fictional series (manga, comic books, and even video games). If people sees what that character had done or said in the series and if its bad to them, they going to dislike/hate that specific character. And then there are also followers, people follow and believe what other people say too if they don't read the real facts.

[Jenskott]

Yes, I know what you're telling. I have observed that in every fandom there's ALWAYS one character fanboys/girls LOVE hating and bashing. And their reasons usually make no sense or are downright hypocrital. Not matter what that character does or doesn't, they shall automatically hate him/her. Often they make up stuff and come up with false facts for justifying their hatred, twisting the canon around to fit in those phony facts.

I don't understand that stalkerish, obsessive behavior. We're talking about fictional characters. Why would somebody would make up excuses for hating and keeping on hating fictional characters?

Sigh. There's not much we can do about it. Haters/bashers shall believe whatever they want believing, even if their motives completely ignore or willfully misinterpret the facts.

At least we have the canon on our side. The official story is what it is, for good and bad, and neither of those bashers can touch it, alter it or retcon it.

And then there are also followers, people follow and believe what other people say too if they don't read the real facts.

In fact I think the most of the bashers are followers. A lot of them simply repeat mindlessly what other bashers have said, without thinking if it makes sense or not (the "Naruto and Sakura have a sibling-like relationship" garbage comes to mind).

[Derock]

(the "Naruto and Sakura have a sibling-like relationship" garbage comes to mind).

Am I still the only person is saying that's a piece of BS statement that suddenly came out of nowhere? The only thing I can believe in that if that specific person said "I considered him/her as my brother/sister" in bold print. (But then it will turn out to be another HP bad writing coming back to take us down.)

[RyrineaHaruno]

Am I still the only person is saying that's a piece of BS statement that suddenly came out of nowhere

Nope, you not the only one heee. I thought the whole bother-sister thing was bull crap.

[Jenskott]

Am I still the only person is saying that's a piece of BS statement that suddenly came out of nowhere? The only thing I can believe in that if that specific person said "I considered him/her as my brother/sister" in bold print. (But then it will turn out to be another HP bad writing coming back to take us down.)

No, you are NOT the only one, believe me.

I wager some anti-NS spouted that nosense in some forum, and other fans repeated it mindlessly because it sounded like an awfully convenient way to explain away the increasingly strong bond between Naruto and Sakura were displaying when Part II began (and they had been developing since the beginning of the story, but no one is interested in pesky facts).

Again, you can try convincing me they are only friends. But you can't convince me they are brother/sister.

[catsi563]

Its no different an argument from the Katara Aang nonsense that was spewed through most of the series. This inspite of the insessant and constant blushing going on between the two through out their interactions.