19441 replies to this topic

[soshi]

very true not to mention the bad relation theat they promout

[applesauceful]

I guess many people are asking the same question: why couldn't they make it a NS romance movie? They wouldn't have to contradict/destroy the original manga and I guess general fandom would stomach NS ending way better than this Hyuuga wank fest. They had to totally destroy Sakura's development / Naruto's character to make SS canon and this pairing is nonexistent in the movie. All Kishi had to do is make Sakura move on... her moving on would be x1000 times more believable than Naruto suddenly becoming Hinata's brainless fanboy. This finale is so unnatural and insane that a sane person's brain will deny to even try processing this info.

I know it's like he wanted to take out as many fans as possible.

[Akashi]

I know it's like he wanted to take out as many fans as possible.

Which proves that Kishi's a huge looser with serious inferiority complex.

[tricksie]

 

 

Don't pandering attempts like that usually fail? Your core audience hates it and it doesn't generally attract people who weren't already interested.

 

See, I don't think they're pandering to fans. The old fans at least. I think they're going for a new fan base with this movie. A younger one, aimed at girls as well as boys, and one that can grow up with a new series. I honestly think they've dropped the old fans because they know that we most likely wouldn't stick around to read a new series with their babies.

 

 

 

Part 3 is not written by Kishi, it's by his assistance and they even said they're short stories. This series will bomb. Naruto is not gonna survive, it's gonna die. Just like Dragonball GT did.

 

Ah, well then it all makes sense. They're passing it off to a whole new crew. They aren't just changing the character's appearance, they are changing the entire character. Like I said earlier, if these characters (the rookies, Naruto, Hinata, Sakura and Sasuke) were submitted to ShonenJump for consideration, it would be an instant negative. There is nothing remarkable or memorable about the characters, or their kids. They've just been dulled down for mass consumption.

 

This project is sure to fail. The old fans hate it, and that's enough buzz to taint the new fandom. And there's simply not enough interesting plot hooks or designs to attract new fans, no matter how many sappy romance movies they make.

[Akashi]

 

See, I don't think they're pandering to fans. The old fans at least. I think they're going for a new fan base with this movie. A younger one, aimed at girls as well as boys, and one that can grow up with a new series. I honestly think they've dropped the old fans because they know that we most likely wouldn't stick around to read a new series with their babies.

 

 

 

Ah, well then it all makes sense. They're passing it off to a whole new crew. They aren't just changing the character's appearance, they are changing the entire character. Like I said earlier, if these characters (the rookies, Naruto, Hinata, Sakura and Sasuke) were submitted to ShonenJump for consideration, it would be an instant negative. There is nothing remarkable or memorable about the characters, or their kids. They've just been dulled down for mass consumption.

 

This project is sure to fail. The old fans hate it, and that's enough buzz to taint the new fandom. And there's simply not enough interesting plot hooks or designs to attract new fans, no matter how many sappy romance movies they make.

Yeah and eventually new fans of the series would probably like to read the original NARUTO, lol. I'm pretty sure they won't like what they'll see: their whole new fandom being based on lies and retcons.

Edited by Akashi, 26 November 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[Atheck]

This project is sure to fail. The old fans hate it, and that's enough buzz to taint the new fandom. And there's simply not enough interesting plot hooks or designs to attract new fans, no matter how many sappy romance movies they make.

 

Now when you say this new and diluted angle is garnering disdain from the manga readers who grew up with the original series, do you have anything substantial like aggregate data from a poll or forum posts/topics that proves the claim? There's a demand for evidence attesting to this dislike that hasn't been met so far. 

[tricksie]

 

Part 3 is not written by Kishi, it's by his assistance and they even said they're short stories. This series will bomb. Naruto is not gonna survive, it's gonna die. Just like Dragonball GT did.

 

 

If this is the case, then hasn't he almost certainly sold the rights to Shueisha? If someone else is carrying on his manga, then there's no way that he is the sole rights owner. He may be still named as the artist on the cover and retain some creative control, but ultimately this will now be Shueisha's show. Right?

 

And if this series and the movie hs been in the works for at least two years, from RtN or before, then he could have struck this deal at any time back then, thus accounting for how the manga has steadily unraveled over the years.

 

So it makes sense why the movie has shot off in such a different direction, with character sketches that are clearly from a different hand. It's being done by another team. It has turned into a brand, operating with the same structure as Marvel. There may be supplemental artists after the original one, but Marvel will still hold the copyright and retain the final say in creative control.

 

Anyway, knowing this makes me feel marginally better. Of course there's always some reason behind the madness (and that's money) but it makes me feel better to have some solid confirmation that the whole movie is a huge marketing ploy to push new audiences to the new series. Not just the feeling that they've sold us all out in a moment of fan hatred.

[Akashi]

Did Kishi do any of Hinata's sketches or only that one infamous mystery woman? Because all other sketches of her I've seen were done by SP's animators.

[Atheck]

If money was the primary interest of these organisations then why haven't indulged the SS fandom? It's their pairing that has consistently ranked as the most popular hetero romantic pairing in Japan. They should have dedicated their efforts towards pleasing the group with the largest following. 

[MangaReader]

 

Part 3 is not written by Kishi, it's by his assistance and they even said they're short stories. This series will bomb. Naruto is not gonna survive, it's gonna die. Just like Dragonball GT did.

Wait... the guy who wrote Blood Prison is Kishi's assistant? Cause that's who's writing part 3

[Akashi]

People who follow logic break the rules are kitten and people who sell out betray their fans friends are worst than kitten, right Kishi?

Edited by Akashi, 26 November 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[tricksie]

 

Now when you say this new and diluted angle is garnering disdain from the manga readers who grew up with the original series, do you have anything substantial like aggregate data from a poll or forum posts/topics that proves the claim? There's a demand for evidence attesting to this dislike that hasn't been met so far. 

 

No, I wish I did have some proof. Just supposition. 

 

People never like spin offs as much as the first show/book/movie, etc. And there's nothing in the epilogue, the movie marketing, or the character designs that hooks audiences as well as or better than the first Naruto did. So with an underwhelming design and an as-of-yet non-existent plot hook, why exactly should new audiences (and old fans) hang on to see what's coming next in the new series? Are they banking it all on this ninja romance movie to push fans over to the new series?

 

Because of the undewhelming design and the lack of a hook, I just feel like it's not going to stand out or be memorable. A kid who is the son of the top man in the village but still has a chip on his shoulder is was less interesting than an orphaned child who is shunned by the village for his mysterious history and facial marks, and yet who still happens to look like their late beloved leader.

 

They've broken with the original Naruto fans, except for the NH ones, so they absolutely have to pick up new fans. But the illustrations so far look so unimaginative, I think they're going to have an uphill battle.

 

That's why I predict this series will be shortlived. Better series, ones who've kept faith with their fans and presented them imaginative and entertaining storylines to build on, have been cut short. (Legend of Korra, I'm looking at you.) I don't see why Naruto is any exception.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

And if this series and the movie hs been in the works for at least two years, from RtN or before, then he could have struck this deal at any time back then, thus accounting for how the manga has steadily unraveled over the years.

 

So it makes sense why the movie has shot off in such a different direction, with character sketches that are clearly from a different hand. It's being done by another team. It has turned into a brand, operating with the same structure as Marvel. There may be supplemental artists after the original one, but Marvel will still hold the copyright and retain the final say in creative control.

More importantly that opens up the possibility of AU's and Reboots where they can do kitten correctly  

But frankly, I'd rather they just leave the catastrophe alone at this point, if they tried "Fixing it" Naruto will never have liked Sakura at all, Sakura would be replaced by Hinata all the way through and frankly my sensibilities couldn't handle it. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I guess many people are asking the same question: why couldn't they make it a NS romance movie? They wouldn't have to contradict/destroy the original manga and I guess general fandom would stomach NS ending way better than this Hyuuga wank fest. They had to totally destroy Sakura's development / Naruto's character to make SS canon and this pairing is nonexistent in the movie. All Kishi had to do is make Sakura move on... her moving on would be x1000 times more believable than Naruto suddenly becoming Hinata's brainless fanboy. This finale is so unnatural and insane that a sane person's brain will deny to even try processing this info.

No kidding. Look, if I was in charge, I wouldn't make it a love story. I would make it a one hell of a finale to say thank you all. But if I was forced to make a love story, well here's why it would work far superior than the one we got:

1) It's believable to see Sakura moving on from a guy who is no longer there and only sees a new chapter of her life.

2) Naruto has a hard time to win love. Sakura is all she love but she is hard to get. That's a challenge for our main hero.

3) Naruto and Sakura are already best friends, so it's like they will always be friendly to each other, but things are getting more awkward as love aspect spreads around and both of them brush off like they don't need love yet Naruto do and Sakura seems lost.

4) These two are the main characters since the beginning of the story. Fans can understand them greatly because we have explored them since the beginning. Naruto's problem isn't new, rather something that needs to be done. Sakura's problem is a little new because now that Sasuke days are over, is she going to quit on love or what.

5) They have characters. This is very important in the story. Disney has greatly evolved from the past since the old days it was always artistic, moral, and magic. Today, we still have those more or less but with characteristics in them and fun adventure. Naruto and Sakura can provide that greatly. See RtN or even Will of Fire.

6) Nothing will be made up to make the pairing work. Everything is all on the manga, the original source, to explain the factor of these two.

7) There's no need to see one feelings in a genjutsu or cast a spell on them. All it takes is to recap your own history, rather than seeing other's history, because that would mean you're establishing that the person got forced upon to understand that one person without actually making it genuine.

8) The requirement of OoC wouldn't be needed at all nor the status of a character because it matches to the original story, so nothing will cost dearly.

9) The movie should be focusing on the main characters' struggle, not only one of them. Naruto don't have a struggle or any true development, rather skip ahead to love with Hinata. In Disney movies or any animated movies, it's always the main character first, then everyone else later. In HTTYD, the protagonist already has a crush on his love interest, so naturally, we want him to win. In the end, he does. In any Disney films, they are new to each other, but they embark on a adventure or growing up to learn each other and we support to hope for them to love each other. In the end, they do. In here, not main character already has, so as much as it's nice to see the protagonist get love, why it has to be boring, forced, and lastly, not his goal. And that's why it failed.

There's more but I will stop here.

[tricksie]

If money was the primary interest of these organisations then why haven't indulged the SS fandom? It's their pairing that has consistently ranked as the most popular hetero romantic pairing in Japan. They should have dedicated their efforts towards pleasing the group with the largest following. 

 

Yeah, I've wondered that as well. Where is SS in all this?

 

I can'really say. Maybe they will show up in the new series instead. Or maybe they powers-that-be have decided that the story has focused enough on Sasuke, and they want it to be squarely on Naruto and his progeny. It could be that the love triangle of the future is between two girls (one being Salad) and a boy (Bolt), rather than such a heavy focus on the bonds of friendship with a little love sprinkled in as filler.

 

Ultimately, I think Sasuke and Sakura, as individuals, take too much spotlight from Naruto and have too many ties to the old manga which they are trying so hard to distance themselves from. I think Sakura from the manga has the power to outshine Hinata with anything she does, and that's why they have to neutralize her into being a housewife, to make her a less-threatening presence. With Sasuke they can conveniently send him out of the village on 'missions' until he's ready to come back and play his role as plot device before leaving again. 

 

Both of Naruto's old distractions, Sakura and Sasuke, have been conveniently erased from the storyline, so there is no competition with his attention for Hinata. This is THE ONLY WAY a love between NH can work. And so that theme continues on through the new series as well.

 

I have no proof of this, just conjecture based on what's been presented and how I would handle it if I were in the creative war room and I were tasked with squeezing the most money from the Naruto series as possible. This is how I would set up the storyline. 

 

Sakura and Sasuke, unfortunately, make very the first targets in an NH bingo book. They'd be the first to go.

[MangaReader]

Guys guys... lets just all remember we read the manga wrong okay lol...

Oaky bad joke

 

But seriously, I have no clue whatsoever what we're talking about right now haha. Something about spin offs?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Yeah, I've wondered that as well. Where is SS in all this?

 

I can'really say. Maybe they will show up in the new series instead. Or maybe they powers-that-be have decided that the story has focused enough on Sasuke, and they want it to be squarely on Naruto and his progeny. It could be that the love triangle of the future is between two girls (one being Salad) and a boy (Bolt), rather than such a heavy focus on the bonds of friendship with a little love sprinkled in as filler.

 

Ultimately, I think Sasuke and Sakura, as individuals, take too much spotlight from Naruto and have too many ties to the old manga which they are trying so hard to distance themselves from. I think Sakura from the manga has the power to outshine Hinata with anything she does, and that's why they have to neutralize her into being a housewife, to make her a less-threatening presence. With Sasuke they can conveniently send him out of the village on 'missions' until he's ready to come back and play his role as plot device before leaving again. 

 

Both of Naruto's old distractions, Sakura and Sasuke, have been conveniently erased from the storyline, so there is no competition with his attention for Hinata. This is THE ONLY WAY a love between NH can work. And so that theme continues on through the new series as well.

 

I have no proof of this, just conjecture based on what's been presented and how I would handle it if I were in the creative war room and I were tasked with squeezing the most money from the Naruto series as possible. This is how I would set up the storyline. 

 

Sakura and Sasuke, unfortunately, make very the first targets in an NH bingo book. They'd be the first to go.

 

I know whatcha mean, Tricksie-chan (sorry if you mind me calling you that.). It feels so sad that all of this is just being done to try to say "I FINISHED IT!!!" like a little kid would be like with something. I dunno, this whole thing has been one hot mess and it pisses me off.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

No kidding. Look, if I was in charge, I wouldn't make it a love story. I would make it a one hell of a finale to say thank you all. But if I was forced to make a love story, well here's why it would work far superior than the one we got:

1) It's believable to see Sakura moving on from a guy who is no longer there and only sees a new chapter of her life.

2) Naruto has a hard time to win love. Sakura is all she love but she is hard to get. That's a challenge for our main hero.

3) Naruto and Sakura are already best friends, so it's like they will always be friendly to each other, but things are getting more awkward as love aspect spreads around and both of them brush off like they don't need love yet Naruto do and Sakura seems lost.

4) These two are the main characters since the beginning of the story. Fans can understand them greatly because we have explored them since the beginning. Naruto's problem isn't new, rather something that needs to be done. Sakura's problem is a little new because now that Sasuke days are over, is she going to quit on love or what.

5) They have characters. This is very important in the story. Disney has greatly evolved from the past since the old days it was always artistic, moral, and magic. Today, we still have those more or less but with characteristics in them and fun adventure. Naruto and Sakura can provide that greatly. See RtN or even Will of Fire.

6) Nothing will be made up to make the pairing work. Everything is all on the manga, the original source, to explain the factor of these two.

7) There's no need to see one feelings in a genjutsu or cast a spell on them. All it takes is to recap your own history, rather than seeing other's history, because that would mean you're establishing that the person got forced upon to understand that one person without actually making it genuine.

8) The requirement of OoC wouldn't be needed at all nor the status of a character because it matches to the original story, so nothing will cost dearly.

9) The movie should be focusing on the main characters' struggle, not only one of them. Naruto don't have a struggle or any true development, rather skip ahead to love with Hinata. In Disney movies or any animated movies, it's always the main character first, then everyone else later. In HTTYD, the protagonist already has a crush on his love interest, so naturally, we want him to win. In the end, he does. In any Disney films, they are new to each other, but they embark on a adventure or growing up to learn each other and we support to hope for them to love each other. In the end, they do. In here, not main character already has, so as much as it's nice to see the protagonist get love, why it has to be boring, forced, and lastly, not his goal. And that's why it failed.

There's more but I will stop here.

I will laugh if this is what await's us on 6th December.

[MangaReader]

There's only one flaw tricksie... Every female got a horribly diminished role in the ending chapter. I guess maybe Ino got spared a bit, TenTen is basically in a dying business for some reason, but the others are all housewives. Clearly the only important thing to Hinata (other then Naruto and smiling at her cousins grave) is to be a mother to only her daughter 

[Akashi]

No kidding. Look, if I was in charge, I wouldn't make it a love story. I would make it a one hell of a finale to say thank you all. But if I was forced to make a love story, well here's why it would work far superior than the one we got:

1) It's believable to see Sakura moving on from a guy who is no longer there and only sees a new chapter of her life.

2) Naruto has a hard time to win love. Sakura is all she love but she is hard to get. That's a challenge for our main hero.

3) Naruto and Sakura are already best friends, so it's like they will always be friendly to each other, but things are getting more awkward as love aspect spreads around and both of them brush off like they don't need love yet Naruto do and Sakura seems lost.

4) These two are the main characters since the beginning of the story. Fans can understand them greatly because we have explored them since the beginning. Naruto's problem isn't new, rather something that needs to be done. Sakura's problem is a little new because now that Sasuke days are over, is she going to quit on love or what.

5) They have characters. This is very important in the story. Disney has greatly evolved from the past since the old days it was always artistic, moral, and magic. Today, we still have those more or less but with characteristics in them and fun adventure. Naruto and Sakura can provide that greatly. See RtN or even Will of Fire.

6) Nothing will be made up to make the pairing work. Everything is all on the manga, the original source, to explain the factor of these two.

7) There's no need to see one feelings in a genjutsu or cast a spell on them. All it takes is to recap your own history, rather than seeing other's history, because that would mean you're establishing that the person got forced upon to understand that one person without actually making it genuine.

8) The requirement of OoC wouldn't be needed at all nor the status of a character because it matches to the original story, so nothing will cost dearly.

9) The movie should be focusing on the main characters' struggle, not only one of them. Naruto don't have a struggle or any true development, rather skip ahead to love with Hinata. In Disney movies or any animated movies, it's always the main character first, then everyone else later. In HTTYD, the protagonist already has a crush on his love interest, so naturally, we want him to win. In the end, he does. In any Disney films, they are new to each other, but they embark on a adventure or growing up to learn each other and we support to hope for them to love each other. In the end, they do. In here, not main character already has, so as much as it's nice to see the protagonist get love, why it has to be boring, forced, and lastly, not his goal. And that's why it failed.

There's more but I will stop here.

Yikes! I got my likes back!

 

Yeah, that's what I mean: there are numerous scenarios NS could become canon and none of them would feel rushed or forced or OCC. We don't need retcons / fodder villains  because NS has all the mutual development and they are more canon than the final pairings will ever be.

 

I still don't understand Kishi's SP/SJ motivation to go Hyuuga wank fest route since NS one would bring them more money (considering that was their initial plan, the cash grab)... i just say they're out of their minds.

Edited by Akashi, 26 November 2014 - 04:01 PM.