19964 replies to this topic

[六道仙人]

What's that BS!?!?

It's a huge fake.. probably april's fool... I went on that site and don't talk about some interview with Kishimoto.
besides, just watch the questions and the answers from Kishimoto: Absolutely no way that Kishi could talk so openly about future events, he cannot spoiler in a such way even the manga is close to end.

relax, it's april's fool made by some anti ns fan probably a SS fans since he talked even the possibility of Sasuke Hokage at the end

[TouKen4Life3g]

What's that BS!?!?

It's a huge fake.. probably april's fool... I went on that site and don't talk about some interview with Kishimoto.
besides, just watch the questions and the answers from Kishimoto: Absolutely no way that Kishi could talk so openly about future events, he cannot spoiler in a such way even the manga is close to end.

relax, it's april's fool made by some anti ns fan probably a SS fans since he talked even the possibility of Sasuke Hokage at the end

It is. Lol. It was...genius...bastard...

[HauntedCake]

What's that BS!?!?

It's a huge fake.. probably april's fool... I went on that site and don't talk about some interview with Kishimoto.
besides, just watch the questions and the answers from Kishimoto: Absolutely no way that Kishi could talk so openly about future events, he cannot spoiler in a such way even the manga is close to end.

relax, it's april's fool made by some anti ns fan probably a SS fans since he talked even the possibility of Sasuke Hokage at the end

Did you visit the forum link sojobo posted as well where he found that>???

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

It is. Lol. It was...genius...bastard...

Well i give up seached everywhere even post from Japan with the name both on Japanese and on English and i found none also all i feel is rage.

[六道仙人]

Did you visit the forum link sojobo posted as well where he found that>???

I visited the link of that japanese magazine and I assure you that it dont talked about Naruto and kishimoto's interview.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well i give up seached everywhere even post from Japan with the name both on Japanese and on English and i found none also all i feel is rage.

Whoa now. Don't go hulk on me. We just fell to a trap.

[HauntedCake]

[Tsubaki]

ohh I went from utter despair to relief while I was reading these last pages, oh my god! Shipping NS isn't healthy

Just to be sure ... this is fake, right?! I really don't think Kishi would talk so much and so openly about the future of his manga that way ... any mangaka would do that! It would be stupid to create tension in the manga to destroy it in an interview ...

[TouKen4Life3g]

ohh I went from utter despair to relief while I was reading these last pages, oh my god! Shipping NS isn't healthy

Just to be sure ... this is fake, right?! I really don't think Kishi would talk so much and so openly about the future of his manga that way ... any mangaka would do that! It would be stupid to create tension in the manga to destroy it in an interview ...

Yes, it is. Daijoubu!

Well, at least it kept me up at work. Thanks, sojobo.

[Ex-psych75]

Yea the crisis was averted.

[Sojobo]

Well, at least it kept me up at work. Thanks, sojobo.

Sorry guys, I fell in it myself. ^^
Be relieved, NaruSaku isn't dead. o/

[KnS]

No, you don't get it. The heroine is supposed to be there for the hero every step of the way. She's supposed to help give the hero a reason to fight harder. The heroine has to be walking down the same journey as the hero and be there for him whether emotionally, or physically. By every step of the way, I mean every. step. of. the. way.

What? Is there some kind of special, manga-specific definition of heroine that I've missed? Are the rules for what a heroine is or does fundamentally different in a manga than the rest of literature? Has Kishimoto made up his own definition?

For the record, hero and heroine roles are "characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice -- that is, heroism -- for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence." (Wiki entry.)

Nowhere in the definition of heroine does it say she is "supposed to be there for the hero every step of the way. She's supposed to help give the hero a reason to fight harder. The heroine has to be walking down the same journey as the hero and be there for him whether emotionally, or physically." Wow. Talk about sexist.

A heroine's actions and journey are not dependent on or subjugated to any man's actions or journey -- even if he is a hero. Her actions and journey are her own, and they are based on her own personal character.

In a story like Naruto, where the title character is himself the embodiment of heroism, the hero's actions and journey will unquestionably influence the actions and journey of the other characters. But what makes a hero or heroine is what's in their own character, not what they do for the hero. Supporting the main hero and his quest for moral excellence is a reflection of each character's pre-existing heroism -- their personal courage and willingness to self-sacrifice for the "greater good."

That is what leaves it open for Sasuke to be heroic at the end. We have past evidence that Sasuke is capable of heroism -- his body "moving on its own" to take the brunt of Haku's attack in the ice prison to save Naruto, for example (I still think we're going to see him do something like that again) -- but currently Sasuke is not heroic by definition because he is not willing to sacrifice himself or his revenge for the "greater good."

This is also why Obito is not currently heroic. His psychopathology has led him to the conclusion (fantasy) that the Infinite Tsukuyomi is for the greater good, but he is imposing it at the sacrifice of human liberty. It is a misguided heroism, at best, but serves as a way for him to be reached by Naruto's TnJ.

And frankly, this is where a lot of the Hinata debate comes in. Were her actions during the Pain encounter heroic? Kishimoto said she was acting more like a heroine than Sakura, but was Hinata truly acting for the greater good, or for Naruto's good? Or for her own?

Hinata's own words tell us that she was being selfish, not heroic. While she got half of it right -- "in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice" -- she did it so she could tell Naruto she loved him and die with him, not for "some greater good of all humanity."

In contrast, Sakura WAS heroic during the Pain invasion. She did not focus solely on Naruto. She did not drop everything to "be there for the hero every step of the way." No, she did HER JOB. In the face of danger and adversity and from a position of weakness (compared to Pain), Sakura displayed courage and the will for self-sacrifice for the greater good of the village.

So in terms of Pain's attack on Konoha, Kishimoto meant what he said. Hinata was acting more obviously like a heroine, but he maintains that the main heroine of the story is Sakura and that is proved out by Sakura's actions in the story.

And I cannot believe how some people still try to downplay 615. At this point, some of you guys are desperately grabbing on straws. Face it. It was a heroine-worthy moment.

Yes, it was a heroic moment -- a truly heroic moment as compared to the selfishness of her actions during the Pain invasion. (The heroic implications of her confrontation with Neji during the Chuunin Exams is a separate discussion.)

The difference seems to be, Codus, that some of us don't feel that Hinata finally getting a truly heroic moment -- really her first public one in the entire manga -- overshadows or eclipses Sakura in any way. We're not threatened by it. Some of us feel that Hinata finally got her moment to shine, and finally caught up to where her peers have been for the majority of the manga. This was good for her personal development, but it doesn't make her THE heroine of the overall story.

Sakura has been so far ahead of Hinata in terms of personal heroism that perhaps we've taken it for granted. It's going to take a much bigger, more spectacular moment for Sakura to surpass her own personal level of heroism. In my opinion, #615 wasn't a good enough heroic moment for Sakura, but it was just fine for Hinata's level. A moment worthy of Sakura's level of bravery and commitment is yet to come.

Just my opinion.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sorry guys, I fell in it myself. ^^
Be relieved, NaruSaku isn't dead. o/

Funny because I saw it "Stop playing already.." rather than "Nooooo" but oh well. It's ok. It was nice to see it alive in here...though it was red alert but yeah.

[Tsubaki]

Yes, it is. Daijoubu!

Well, at least it kept me up at work. Thanks, sojobo.

Thanks! I can breathe relieved now!

Sorry guys, I fell in it myself. ^^
Be relieved, NaruSaku isn't dead. o/

You don't need to be sorry! You just brought what you found! that's okay!

[TouKen4Life3g]

Thanks! I can breathe relieved now!



You don't need to be sorry! You just brought what you found! that's okay!

You got to admit, it was clever timing, especially using the game magazine as a source.

[六道仙人]

You got to admit, it was clever timing, especially using the game magazine as a source.

kishimoto wouldn't never talk using a such tone anti NS... He isn't so fool despite he doens't gives us any hints pro NS on the manga...

EDIT

even takl, the jap guy from NF, confirmed that it's a fake.

Edited by 六道仙人, 31 March 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

kishimoto wouldn't never talk using a such tone anti NS... He isn't so fool despite he doens't gives us any hints pro NS on the manga...

Exactly. That was pure blunt, let alone finally make NH as a pairing rather than just keep it as fans' pairing.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Exactly. That was pure blunt, let alone finally make NH as a pairing rather than just keep it as fans' pairing.

Worse is that he said NS was dead not stading aside by the fact about the other half of the kyuubi's chakra, with only that she was more stronger than all the other's bijuu's and moreover Minato didnt sealed the other half of the kyuubi chakra on the shinigami he sealed his soul the other half died along with his body.
While the kyuubi regenerated the other half while she was inside Naruto's body.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 31 March 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[Codus N]

What? Is there some kind of special, manga-specific definition of heroine that I've missed? Are the rules for what a heroine is or does fundamentally different in a manga than the rest of literature? Has Kishimoto made up his own definition?

For the record, hero and heroine roles are "characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice -- that is, heroism -- for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence." (Wiki entry.)

Nowhere in the definition of heroine does it say she is "supposed to be there for the hero every step of the way. She's supposed to help give the hero a reason to fight harder. The heroine has to be walking down the same journey as the hero and be there for him whether emotionally, or physically." Wow. Talk about sexist.

A heroine's actions and journey are not dependent on or subjugated to any man's actions or journey -- even if he is a hero. Her actions and journey are her own, and they are based on her own personal character.

In a story like Naruto, where the title character is himself the embodiment of heroism, the hero's actions and journey will unquestionably influence the actions and journey of the other characters. But what makes a hero or heroine is what's in their own character, not what they do for the hero. Supporting the main hero and his quest for moral excellence is a reflection of each character's pre-existing heroism -- their personal courage and willingness to self-sacrifice for the "greater good."

That is what leaves it open for Sasuke to be heroic at the end. We have past evidence that Sasuke is capable of heroism -- his body "moving on its own" to take the brunt of Haku's attack in the ice prison to save Naruto, for example (I still think we're going to see him do something like that again) -- but currently Sasuke is not heroic by definition because he is not willing to sacrifice himself or his revenge for the "greater good."

This is also why Obito is not currently heroic. His psychopathology has led him to the conclusion (fantasy) that the Infinite Tsukuyomi is for the greater good, but he is imposing it at the sacrifice of human liberty. It is a misguided heroism, at best, but serves as a way for him to be reached by Naruto's TnJ.

And frankly, this is where a lot of the Hinata debate comes in. Were her actions during the Pain encounter heroic? Kishimoto said she was acting more like a heroine than Sakura, but was Hinata truly acting for the greater good, or for Naruto's good? Or for her own?

Hinata's own words tell us that she was being selfish, not heroic. While she got half of it right -- "in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self sacrifice" -- she did it so she could tell Naruto she loved him and die with him, not for "some greater good of all humanity."

In contrast, Sakura WAS heroic during the Pain invasion. She did not focus solely on Naruto. She did not drop everything to "be there for the hero every step of the way." No, she did HER JOB. In the face of danger and adversity and from a position of weakness (compared to Pain), Sakura displayed courage and the will for self-sacrifice for the greater good of the village.

So in terms of Pain's attack on Konoha, Kishimoto meant what he said. Hinata was acting more obviously like a heroine, but he maintains that the main heroine of the story is Sakura and that is proved out by Sakura's actions in the story.



Yes, it was a heroic moment -- a truly heroic moment as compared to the selfishness of her actions during the Pain invasion. (The heroic implications of her confrontation with Neji during the Chuunin Exams is a separate discussion.)

The difference seems to be, Codus, that some of us don't feel that Hinata finally getting a truly heroic moment -- really her first public one in the entire manga -- overshadows or eclipses Sakura in any way. We're not threatened by it. Some of us feel that Hinata finally got her moment to shine, and finally caught up to where her peers have been for the majority of the manga. This was good for her personal development, but it doesn't make her THE heroine of the overall story.

Sakura has been so far ahead of Hinata in terms of personal heroism that perhaps we've taken it for granted. It's going to take a much bigger, more spectacular moment for Sakura to surpass her own personal level of heroism. In my opinion, #615 wasn't a good enough heroic moment for Sakura, but it was just fine for Hinata's level. A moment worthy of Sakura's level of bravery and commitment is yet to come.

Just my opinion.

I think we have a little misunderstanding. On the second bolded, my response was meant to address the notion that all Sakura is good for is to act as a pairing fodder. That's what I perceived as being a sexist opinion. What I truly wanted to address is the fact that there's more to Sakura's character than just being a pairing fodder. On the first bolded, tell me one heroine (with a corresponding hero) in any mainstream media that doesn't conform to the usual rules. What I stated in my post that you quoted was based on the precedence of several examples of heroines throughout several forms of media.

Of all shonen mangas that I've read, none of them stray very far from the usual rules that apply. Lemme ask you this, has any shonen protagonist out there doesn't have the heroine's support in some form?? no, right?? Zilch. The heroine is usually the one who stands beside the hero in whatever adversity he faces. This, at the very least is an unwritten trope regarding the heroine's position. I ask you this, has Sakura contributed enough to the hero or the story?? healing is one thing. But if that's true, then what about 617??

The confession did move the story along, but even that's still related to pairing fodder. Back in early Part II she managed to get info out of Sasori which moved the plot. What I want to see is something like that again. Nothing related to pairing fodder at all in regards to Sakura's development or contribution. Zetsu stamping?? Naruto was already out by that time and the Raikage let him go anyways. It wouldn't have taken Sakura to get Naruto out. Naruto could've figured out there were Zetsus infiltrating the alliance.

As for the Pain arc, I already covered that in a previous post a few pages back.

I can understand that some feel that Sakura is still the heroine despite 615. I also understand the reasoning behind the argument. But there's just one thing. The fact that it affected the hero's character development. Isn't that kind of role usually reserved for the heroine of the story??. When you write a hero-heroine (or maybe I should refer it as the leading man and lady from now on) duo, they both have a reciprocal relationship (I'm not talking in a romantic sense, mind you. I'm talking in a general sense) with each other that affects each other's developments.

Going back to what I said about the heroine being there every step of the way with the hero, this is what I mean. When they have to face something, the effects vary from between each other. If one's down, the it's the other's duty to stand his/her ground and pull the other up.

This why I say 615 was a good enough heroine moment for Sakura.

[AzureWaters]

LOL that got to me for a minute. Gotta remember the holiday. xD