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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#14561 MangaReader

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

I disagree. Shipping does not block you reading comprehension. Being neutral is not always best. One pairing will be canon, why ignore the hints? Why not care about this part of the story? 'Neutrals' are not less bias than shippers, just look at youtube. Besides, too many fans have claimed to be neutral when they're clearly not, I'm not sure what it means anymore. :s

Neutrality ceases to exist when someone gets too dedicated to seeing something happen. There are indeed neutral people who read this manga, it's just becoming more rare now that shipping has been taking over lately. Before all this 615 onward stuff, there were multiple people who were only reading this for the story itself. Now that shipping is becoming more dominant, the neutral fanbase has been split into three's, some gave up reading, some became involved in a ship, some remained truly neutral. No way around it though, biasness has honestly become a thing to the Naruto fanbase


Edited by MangaReader, 11 February 2014 - 07:05 PM.

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#14562 TacticalFox88

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:05 PM

Either way, we can guarantee that the end of this manga will have some SERIOUSLY butthurt fanbases.



#14563 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:17 PM

I don't believe there is really any such thing as an 'unbiased reader', everyone has their own ideas on how they want or think the story should go and that is bias; a preference for one thing over another. It doesn't have to have anything to do with pairings. The closest thing to being unbiased and neutral is having the ability to step back from one's own preferences and to assess all possibilities, weighing each against the evidence presented in the story itself. And when it comes down to it, I think there are likely very few people willing to do that, lol. It seems in some cases, people confuse not caring about pairings as equal to neutrality, and that's simply not true.



#14564 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:22 PM

Really?Are you sure? At first he talked mostly about ShikaxTema, but he created his channel because of Hinata's confession. :v

I'm not 100%

 

Just watched a video from Lordofice72. Sawer DID support NH, but he said he didn't want to get involved in the pairing wars, or just keep his opinions to himself. This is a video from 2009, so a lot has changed since then.



#14565 MangaReader

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:34 PM

It seems in some cases, people confuse not caring about pairings as equal to neutrality, and that's simply not true.

Is that not what being neutral is?


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#14566 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:05 PM

Is that not what being neutral is?

 

Not always. So many times I've seen people who claim to 'not care about pairings', then go on to say 'so long as B character does not end up with A character, because I hate B character'. That is not being neutral, because that person is still taking a side. And as I said, biasness does not apply only to pairings, or pairing fans for that matter. People argue about different plot elements and character development as well because they have different ideas and expectations for what they want and believe will happen.

 

Anyone who is dedicated to the outcome of a story, and their own ideas on how they believe that story should be told - whether they care about pairings or not - is neither unbiased or neutral. Claiming to not care about the pairings does not alone make someone a neutral reader.

 

But, anyways, that's just my perspective based on what I've seen. Hopefully I've explained what I mean clearly enough.


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 11 February 2014 - 08:37 PM.


#14567 Branden

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:22 PM

Found this video yesterday. I don't know if it's been shared already, but I think it's worth watching.

So to summarize that video:
Let Kishimoto write his own story.

Stop expecting Sakura to do everything.

Stop calling people blind to the story.

If a scene would be romantic for one character than it would be romantic if it happened with another character.

NaruHina fans are the worst at double standards.

SasuSaku fans are blind to the story.

Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura.

Sakura isn't a Sasuke fangirl anymore.

You should care more about the story than you do about the pairings.

Stop using double-standards.

Do not make obscured/overly-biased interpretations of the manga in order to validate your preferred pairing.

 

I think a fix to the problems brought up in this video is to simply use proper manners during debates and back up any claim you make with reasonable evidence. Furthermore you must avoid the major don'ts of debates which are : double standards, discrediting, theories based on speculation


Edited by Branden, 11 February 2014 - 08:23 PM.

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#14568 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:23 PM

I've never noticed how big the Sonic fanbase is here. Dang! I've lost count of how many times I've seen a picture, or somebody mention Sonic in their profiles or in the gamer's lounge.



#14569 Hiraishin

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:24 PM

I admire how in the West the fans are level-headed. In Japan people are calling the CPR a kiss including the non-NS fans.

Ha, you don't like the fact that they're calling it a kiss? :lol: I like how people in Japan are much less uptight about pairings than in the West.

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#14570 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:02 PM

That's because the culture is different in Japan and in the west people have more reasons to call it just CPR and not a kiss.
 
In Japan physical contact is very personal. In the west it's a bit more common.
There's also the fact that in the west there are a lot more anti-NaruSaku fans so not only will they call it CPR but NaruSaku fans will call it CPR so that they don't seem overly biased to the anti-NaruSaku fans.
 
There was most likely deliberate symbolism by Kishimoto, but if it were real life and not a manga then it would only be CPR. Manga is not real life. You have to judge it as a piece of literature where every scene has a purpose and you often have to read between the lines. This is especially true because of the already complicated relationship between Naruto and Sakura. The CPR itself shouldn't be the main focus. It should be Sakura's inner thoughts that are focused on.

which also includes Hinata, Naruto touching her hand was the very first time she had physical contact with him hence why he fangirled about his hand.
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#14571 TruePain

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:15 PM

#branden

A very nice interpretation. Totally agree !


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#14572 Kster95

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:02 AM

SS keep getting their hopes up and getting nothing. They had their hopes up for Sakura having a reaction to Sasuke returning to the battlefield, and the result was nothing and Sakura had the same reaction as the rest of the rookies. Now they continue with "She doesnt know about Sasuke" but I dont think she will get a reaction. They keep trying to hold on but its very clear its not going anywhere. 


Edited by Kster95, 12 February 2014 - 12:02 AM.

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#14573 Transformers03

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:09 AM

I was trying to find any significance to CPR in Japanese fiction, but I found almost nothing new. I reconfirm the fact that kissing of any kind is sort of taboo in Japanese culture, yet I couldn't find any good examples of CPR being used in any romantic context in Japanese fiction. The reason why I looked up on it is because I want to know if the CPR in 663 can be consider romantic, since I did not interpretate it as such. However, when I googled "CPR in manga", I kid you not, but several of early articles where discussion forums on the recent Naruto forums. It wasn't like the top article, yet I was quite surprise how many articles I found in the early pages of my google search.

 

About the forums themselves, there wasn't really much being said that hasn't been said already. The primary argument I saw was the fact if the CPR would be consider romantic, and most posters argued it wasn't. However I did come across some interesting perspectives on the whole situation. One of which came from a fan who argued that Naruto and Hinata's hand holding was far more romantic and important to the manga because physical contact (particularly hand holding) is very romantic in Japanese culture, and the hand holding itself was consider important enough to justify it being on the cover of the manga volume. I don't necessary disagree with that statement, since we have all discussed before how intimidate contact is a lot more romantic in Japan than it is to the western world. It also brought up the interesting point that Kishi did thought the hand holding important enough to have it on the cover of the manga volume.

 

Another post that I thought was interesting was from a different forum, who argued that he/she does not believe NS will happen because they will find it weird for Sakura to suddenly fall in love with Naruto after just a few short chapters. This poster did not seem to be a shipper per say (it could still be argue that he is bias either way), and that one post made me come to epiphany; fans honestly don't see Sakura changing her feelings. It is just because they are against the pairing itself, they just don't see any kind of development for NS to come off of. While I personally find that ridiculous, especially since NH and SS shippers expect Naruto and Sasuke to unexpectedly fall in love with Hinata and Sakura, it does give me better understanding towards other shippers and anti. Most of us have painstakingly analyze the whole manga, and not only do we see the growing development between Naruto and Sakura's relationship (romantic or not), we are also able to logically understand why not only NS is the most likely pairing but also how it relates to the themes and pattern that that Kishi has been laying out.

 

Other fans don't do that, and I guess they just see Naruto and Sakura's relationship as purely platonic. That is actually something I find silly, especially because of the fact that they went on a freaking date in the Road in Ninja AND the fact Minato made a clear-cut connection between Naruto and Sakura with himself and Kushina when thought to himself that Sakura reminded him about Kushina, meaning he directly compared Naruto and Sakura's relationship to the only DEVELOPED romantic couple in the whole series.



#14574 Nostradamus

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:14 AM

Sorry for the off-topic but there is a question I want to ask you guys and girls. But before that I want to explain something so you can better understand my question. It's about the Bijuus. We know that if a Jinchuuriki dies the Bijuu inside dies as well, but the Bijuu will come back after a period of time. How and why I don't know and that's not important. Now we also saw the Bijuus as babies basically and now they are all grown up. My question is can a Bijuu die of old age? What do you guys and girls think?

 

PS. Do any of you have a youtube, twitter, facebook account that has over 10000 followers?


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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#14575 Superman333

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:43 AM

I've never noticed how big the Sonic fanbase is here. Dang! I've lost count of how many times I've seen a picture, or somebody mention Sonic in their profiles or in the gamer's lounge.


Sonic is the best !!!
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#14576 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:52 AM

Sonic is the best !!!

I could never get into it. 



#14577 Them Feels

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 01:03 AM

Quote: Found this video yesterday. I don't know if it's been shared already, but I think it's worth watching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm new to this forum, and I love it. This video is THE BEST interpretation of the situation I've ever listened to. Awesome.


Edited by Them Feels, 12 February 2014 - 01:03 AM.


#14578 Raito

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:48 AM

What are you guys expecting in tomorrow's chapter?  :ermm:


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#14579 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:55 AM

What are you guys expecting in tomorrow's chapter?  :ermm:

More NS, finding out who  is approaching Sasuke, aaaaaaaand....seeing what the bloody hell Madara is up to.



#14580 Superman333

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:56 AM

I grew up on Sonic, ever since I was able to move my hands I played Sonic the Hedgehog on my Sega Genesis and stuff and I watched the cartoons and I always wanted to be fast with unlimited speed just like him so he's my favrotie character . You probably just didn't grow up on him or something .


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