19964 replies to this topic

[Branden]

Seriously? did you just in the same post accuse one person of having a sexist attittude then turn right around and espouse a sexist attitude of your own about the role of a heroine in a story?

Since when does a heroine have to cheerlead anyone to have worth. why is her importance reduced to whether she cheers for the hero.

in point of fact isnt that very attitude what so many despise about Sakura part 1 her ever present cheerleading of Sasuke? isnt that one of NHs prime arguments that Hinata has always cheerleaded for Naruto?

and to cover the orignal point No I am not kidding.

This is a big part of the story but it is not the finale by any stretch of the imagination, This is merely the build up to the finale, so not this is not Narutos worst or lowest hour. hes had similar loss of faith before against Pein. and on the Naruto bridge when he fought Haku.

Narutos biggest test, and most likely his lowest point will come against Sasuke. Thats the ultimate test of his nindo, and the philosophy of will of fire vrs will of vengance.

And thats where Sakura will need to shine the most.

that's such a difficult topic to discuss that I have failed at making a response that i think is acceptable multiple times now.


Sakura is a heroin.
The expectations of a heroine change from person to person.
Generally speaking a heroine supports the hero and acts as a love interest.

That said, it takes a skilled author to create a unique and likeable personality for a heroine and an even more skilled author to make the heroine kind of like a second hero.

Sasuke and Naruto right now have the most development out of any other characters in the series. Sakura is not on their level of development and attention. What many Sakura fans want is for her to be on their level.


to be honest im still not satisfied with this post but i did my best...

Edited by Branden, 31 March 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Codus N]

Seriously? did you just in the same post accuse one person of having a sexist attittude then turn right around and espouse a sexist attitude of your own about the role of a heroine in a story?

Since when does a heroine have to cheerlead anyone to have worth. why is her importance reduced to whether she cheers for the hero.

in point of fact isnt that very attitude what so many despise about Sakura part 1 her ever present cheerleading of Sasuke? isnt that one of NHs prime arguments that Hinata has always cheerleaded for Naruto?

and to cover the orignal point No I am not kidding.

This is a big part of the story but it is not the finale by any stretch of the imagination, This is merely the build up to the finale, so not this is not Narutos worst or lowest hour. hes had similar loss of faith before against Pein. and on the Naruto bridge when he fought Haku.

Narutos biggest test, and most likely his lowest point will come against Sasuke. Thats the ultimate test of his nindo, and the philosophy of will of fire vrs will of vengance.

And thats where Sakura will need to shine the most.

What. The. Hell.??

Did you just twist my words??

No, you don't get it. The heroine is supposed to be there for the hero every step of the way. She's supposed to help give the hero a reason to fight harder. The heroine has to be walking down the same journey as the hero and be there for him whether emotionally, or physically. By every step of the way, I mean every. step. of. the. way.

Sakura fits these criteria until 615. All I'm asking for is some damn consistency from Kishi.

And I cannot believe how some people still try to downplay 615. At this point, some of you guys are desperately grabbing on straws. Face it. It was a heroine-worthy moment.

While it's not the big finale, you have got to be completely kidding me. Words cannot simply describe how facepalm-worthy this statement is . So, lemme get this straight, it's the heroine's role to just sit back and gawk like an idiot while the hero is on the verge of breaking down and not do anything?. The moment where he needs someone's support more than anything?? and if Sakura was supposed to be that important for Naruto, wouldn't she have been more effective in getting through to him? Kurama wouldn't even have to step down.


Need I remind you that Sakura stated she'll leave it to Sasuke and Naruto to sort of things out?? what does that make of her role then, huh?? if this is true, then I see no place for her to be by Naruto's side.

@phenix: well then, kindly explain if it ain't sexist, then what is??

@Branden: Great point about the heroine being a second hero.

Edited by Codus N, 31 March 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Jake]

Well, like Baiken/Quinny said, (in 623 thread) the reason why it's possibly Slug SM is because it fits with the animal trinity theme. Also, there's something else. One of Katsuyu's abilities is to multiply and reform together as a whole, in other words, it's a form of regeneration. And the seal on Hashirama's forehead is heavily related to immortality with this in mind, wouldn't Katsuyu's ability be a form of immortality itself??

While it it true that it would keep with the animal trinity theme, it just seems odd to me that Kishi would have both Toad and Snake Sage Mode give the user Toad and Snake eyes respectively but not have Slug Sage Mode give the user Slug eyes, plus like I said before I'm not going to say that Hashirama's Sage Mode is Slug Sage Mode until I see him summon a Slug or Tsunade, Shizune or Sakura use it, but I doubt that Shizune and Sakura have the chakra needed for Sage Mode, because until we are told otherwise we have to assume that the same requirements that apply to Toad Sage also apply to Snake and Slug Sage Mode it there is a Slug Sage Mode, and Kishi has already had the chance to say if the requirements are different, he could've had Sasuke or Suigetsu ask Orochimaru about it after he was revived, it wouldn't have taken long and it would've made great foreshadowing for Sakura gaining Slug Sage Mode just by establishing if large chakra reserves is only required for Toad Sage Mode.

Oh and about Katsuyu's ability, I wouldn't call that immortality because it is still possible to kill her, you'd need a s*** load of salt, but you could still kill her.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

YOU. HAVE. GOT. TO. BE. KIDDING. ME

So, you're telling me a moment where Naruto is on the verge of losing all hope in himself and his dreams is not an important enough moment to warrant Sakura having a role at all??

I sometimes think people here have a twisted idea of what a heroine is. The heroine is supposed to be the hero's biggest cheerleader and be his bedrock and a shoulder to lean on when he feels he's lost his way.





huh??

Sorry but Kishimoto stated himself though Hashirama saying that even if Naruto win his victory would be meaningless because of Sasuke so in this battle if he loses or win there's no significance and also Naruto has to learn a lot of things to face Sasuke on the final battle.

[Canadian_DJ]

Though I don't think she will grow it out. After Minato complemented her hair, Kushina grew to love her hair even more and let it grow longer than it already was.Since Sakura can't really grow her forehead, I think that she will always keep her hair in a ponytail after Naruto tells her that he loves her forehead so everyone can see it better.

hahahahaaa oohh that killed me.....but I personally think sakura looks good both ways! What can I say...shes a flower!!

[HauntedCake]

Sephiroth

Yep

Need I remind you that Sakura stated she'll leave it to Sasuke and Naruto to sort of things out?? what does that make of her role then, huh?? if this is true, then I see no place for her to be by Naruto's side.

I think she won't just sit out. She'll get a power up (sage mode maybe) and try to help Naruto. Obviously she will be no match, but i don't think she isn't going to not bother trying.

Why the hell is everyone attacking each other again????

@Bageutte - Your sig bro, have you jumped ship?? << this isn't trying to be negative at all just curious.

[PhenixElite]

What. The. Hell.??

Did you just twist my words??

No, you don't get it. The heroine is supposed to be there for the hero every step of the way. She's supposed to help give the hero a reason to fight harder. The heroine has to be walking down the same journey as the hero and be there for him whether emotionally, or physically. By every step of the way, I mean every. step. of. the. way.

Sakura fits these criteria until 615. All I'm asking for is some damn consistency from Kishi.

And I cannot believe how some people still try to downplay 615. At this point, some of you guys are desperately grabbing on straws. Face it. It was a heroine-worthy moment.

While it's not the big finale, you have got to be completely kidding me. Words cannot simply describe how facepalm-worthy this statement is . So, lemme get this straight, it's the heroine's role to just sit back and gawk like an idiot while the hero is on the verge of breaking down and not do anything?. The moment where he needs someone's support more than anything?? and if Sakura was supposed to be that important for Naruto, wouldn't she have been more effective in getting through to him? Kurama wouldn't even have to step down.


Need I remind you that Sakura stated she'll leave it to Sasuke and Naruto to sort of things out?? what does that make of her role then, huh?? if this is true, then I see no place for her to be by Naruto's side.

@phenix: well then, kindly explain if it ain't sexist, then what is??

@Branden: Great point about the heroine being a second hero.

So i really have to say it again -.-
It seems like some of you guys have sakura as your favohrite character but in the end its seems like youve got a totally wrong picture of her.
You are whinning around that shes not fighting, got no new powerups and doesnt get screentime lately and now just because of this you say shes not heroine like. I have a complete different view of her.

Sakura was never ment to be the kind of heroine whos having fights, why else does kishi make her a medic? Shes ment to get her development from naruto, grow from hating to love him and be there for him. A lot of you guys have seenthe sasori fight and now you seem to think that this is ehat she needs to do to be a heroine but thats not true. Sakura got tons of development from naruto theoughout the series and did everything what a good heroine needs to do.
You say that its sexism to prefer a heroine whos not fighting and just beeing there for naruto growing from hating to loving him and naruto beeing the one who tries everything to win her heart, and thats just ....

I said it 100 times before. Theres a reason for kishi to not show her during the war arc, since her characte is on a stage where she is in conflict with her feelings and giving her interactions with naruto now would mean her feelings beeing resolved, but thats somethibg kishi wants to stall till the end. The war arc was ment to show how huge the whole naruto world is and to resolve a lot of character, like hinata as example.

Sure 615 would be a heroine like moment, but its not fitting for sakura since she has nothing to do with neji instead of hinata. Hinata is much more fitting for 615, she gets her shining moment and her character also gets resolved. Its not aking away sakuras moment, her time to shine is still waiting but as said it doesnt need to have anything to do with her fighting to support naruto.

Again, just because i see sakuras character as 90% based on love and also has the most of her development based on her feelings, has nothing to do with sexism, thats just you bringin reallife logic into a manga. This is nothing more then simple storytelling. Thats just a way how to write a character if you point towards an ending with the main character and the protoganist beeing a couple in the end.

I dont even know what keeps you reading this manga if you completly hate how its going so far but nevermind.

Edited by PhenixElite, 31 March 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[T XD]

Agree that the heroine have to be on the same level of other main characters, but there is something that we need to remember which is that every mangaka has his/her own way to make the main characters be in the many different ways, and sometimes the main characters aren't at the same level in many things.

Kishi in his manga is focusing on the powers of Naruto and Sasuke more than Sakura. Naruto, the protagonist, is what matters more to him regarding, in one of the ways, that Naruto has Sasuke to deal with and their final fight, and the important one. What Kishi made for Sakura's character at the beginnings of part 2 is that he made her very strong in her skills, and made an excellent medical ninja. Plus, a pupil to Tsunade. Afterwards, he wants to focus more on Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura here came to focus to a very long time but after that, he hided her and Sasuke, him for some time, in order to make many different events.
What I'm trying to say here is that Kishi has his own plan for the main characters. He has so many events in the manga to make that sometimes the manga shift away from the protagonist himself.

Sakura will have a role or get something to do in the upcoming and the future chapters. The war isn't over, she'll appear. She won't stay disappeared and watching the action, or just healing cause it doesn't make sense especially for a heroine. The battle of Naruto vs Sasuke, she'll have something to do, and not sitting in the village drinking tea.

Edited by T XD, 31 March 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Canadian_DJ]

This is so cute X///X http://tegaki.pipa.j...0/23448274.html

[HauntedCake]

This is so cute X///X http://tegaki.pipa.j...0/23448274.html

Translation PLEASE!!!!

Btw there are more of these right??

Edited by HauntedCake, 31 March 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Canadian_DJ]

Translation PLEASE!!!!

Btw there are more of these right??

Yeah i like TOTALLY followed this amazing artist on twitter! she's japanese,a dn thanks to google translator, everythings muuuuch easier here's her twitter account https://twitter.com/kiki_verde

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah i like TOTALLY followed this amazing artist on twitter! she's japanese,a dn thanks to google translator, everythings muuuuch easier here's her twitter account https://twitter.com/kiki_verde

A nice doujin.

[六道仙人]

She cried for Neji's death, and her entire speech was based off of Neji's words though...
Furthermore, the point of Ch.616 was to symbolize how Neji's spirit lives on as everyone fights in his memory, hence the eagle formations.
Hinata is also shown defending Neji's body in this panel:

Panel --Click here to view--

Nobody, including Hinata, was disregarding Neji.

@Saku-Chan
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Since when Baguette became a nh fan? I believed that she was a NS fan

Edited by 六道仙人, 31 March 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[Dkey]

The thing with sakura is that it doesn't seem that she will have a fight anymore. Other than helping Naruto with Obito there may be some fights with Taka but apart from Orochimaru there isn't an oponent that feels a challenge for her.

Regardless of any path Kishi wants to take with Sakura I think it's time for her to stop being part of the background.

[Canadian_DJ]

I agree. The moment of Naruto's greatest need is not yet upon him, and we don't know for sure what form that need will take.

Even if Sasuke is ultimately redeemed in the technical sense, I believe it's possible Naruto will still face some kind of serious crisis of acceptance where Sasuke is concerned. But however Kishimoto decides to shape the final events, my expectation is that Sakura will not be standing between the two guys so much as she will be standing with Naruto.



I agree with this, too. The confession was frustrating because it poured fuel on the NS fire, and managed to raise as many questions as it answered. But in my opinion that's what made it great. If everything had been resolved back then, neat and tidy, there would have been less tension throughout the rest of the manga -- especially in the final Team 7 showdown.

As kirabook has pointed out countless times, very little manga time has passed since Sakura's confession -- since we saw Naruto's elated and hopeful expression when he first heard Sakura say she loved him. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Sakura's confession proved Naruto's feelings for her. He loves her, and he wants her to love him. The look on his face was unmistakeable. As plain as day. And when Sakura said, "If you don't like me then just say so!!" he didn't deny it. He loves her, and in manga time that happened only a short time ago.

The fact that Naruto argued that Sakura still loves Sasuke has no bearing on his own love for Sakura. In fact it is a reflection of his love for her. He still believes she loves Sasuke, and he didn't want her lying to herself about it. Not to mention it was easier for Naruto to believe she was lying to herself than it was for him to accept that even she could or would be willing to give up on Sasuke. Naruto is more sensitive to people giving up on Sasuke than he is to the feelings of his own heart.

The fact that Naruto accepts Sakura's love for Sasuke, and in a sad display of selflessness ends up championing it himself during the confession, doesn't mean he has given up on his feelings for Sakura. Naruto has always known of and accepted Sakura's love for Sasuke. The confession didn't make that better or worse. It is what it is. Naruto is not that easily changed.

And that's why the fact that Naruto accepts Sakura's love for Sasuke does not make his heart free for Hinata. His heart has belonged to Sakura in the past, and at this point he still loves her. As I said, that's the one clear takeaway from Sakura's confession, and we have not seen a single moment -- in thought, word, or deed -- to indicate Naruto considers Hinata as anything more than a friend and peer.



Exactly. I wrote an entire post about this (found here) before, so I don't want to go over it again.

I honestly don't get why so many NS fans are (a) so impatient, and (b) so upset about Hinata. If you slow down and calmly look at all the details in context -- and within the scope of the entire manga -- you can see that:

+ Sasuke is still off in his own world, without consideration for the feelings of Naruto or Sakura.
+ Sakura is even more confused by her conflicting feelings for Sasuke and Naruto, although she has chosen Naruto as her top priority.
+ Hinata still loves Naruto despite not really knowing him or having spent much time with him, and in the absence of any reciprocation on his part.
+ Naruto still loves Sakura despite his belief that she still loves Sasuke.

I realize I can't convince anyone who now doubts Kishimoto, the story's direction, or Sakura's characterization, but I honestly don't see it myself. I totally believe Kishimoto has NS and Sakura's development on hold because the story is focused elsewhere at the moment. It's not permanent. He's going to come back to it.

After all, Team 7 and its complex issues was one of the very first things he set up in the story. The complexity is based not just on the skill / acknowledgement / need to prove themselves rivalry that existed for each of them -- and very keenly between Naruto and Sasuke -- but the fact that Sakura is a component of the dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto's feelings for Sakura puts her right smack in the middle, and his feelings for her won't be resolved until his rivalry with Sasuke is resolved. I think it's super unrealistic to fear that Naruto will lose that rivalry -- and the girl he loves with it.

Just because the focus is currently on Hokage flashbacks doesn't mean that the war arc and everything that's happened in it has ceased to exist, right? The war is still there, waiting to regain focus. It's the same with Sakura's role in the story, and the resolution for NS. We just have to wait for it.

Hey its nice to see you again, you should drop in more, your posts are so good! Brings a nice vibe in here and lightens up the mood.

I agree with you all the way! While some may have lost hope in kishi and say hes writitng bad, I for one think he's doing really fine! Sure he's got some tiny TINY flaws but i like the story.Dont eat me, thats just my opinon.

Btw guys go to strikers dialilogue corner, its got some funny kitten

[Branden]

Since when Baguette became a nh fan? I believed that she was a NS fan

what exactly in that post made you think he/she was a naruhina fan? nothing indicates that at all.

[Zatheko]

what exactly in that post made you think he/she was a naruhina fan? nothing indicates that at all.

Dat sig man, dat siggggg

[六道仙人]

what exactly in that post made you think he/she was a naruhina fan? nothing indicates that at all.

as zatheko already said, from her signature

[Branden]

my bad, I dont usually look at signatures, I was just reading the quote.

[Don-kun]

what exactly in that post made you think he/she was a naruhina fan? nothing indicates that at all.

That what he did was to spite the NS fandom since he is really annoyed with the way many try to lower Hinata development has meaningless.
The user does not hate Hinata or NH in fact he kind of OK with it.

Anyway this is just my opinion so I will also say what zatheko said, Dat sig man, dat siggggg

Edited by Don-kun, 31 March 2013 - 12:45 PM.