19964 replies to this topic

[HauntedCake]

That's kind of my point. Both statements are untrue and are written through skewed views of Sakura and Hinata.
Neither of them are constantly obsessed with the people they love.

Oh i see what your getting at now agreed

[rocci]

@ baquette

this is ns forum, so hinata will get anymosity among us. the same with how sakura get hate by fan in other forum because she hit naruto.

like i said in hinata thread made by hinata fan, she is decent character who overrated by fan and overhype by her lack apparance before her confenssion.

@ don kun
sorry if i reply this late
thanks for your clarification to inferno, i really appreaciate it. but i'm a man and i have a beard

[Saku-chan]

I don't think anyone can claim to know about who Kishi likes or what his plans are for characters without concrete interview quotes. I don't think that anyone's forcing
Kishimoto to write about Hinata. He's trying to address characters in the series before it ends. We've had Ino-Shika-Chou, Kakashi, Gai, some Tenten/Lee, Neji, and Hinata development. We are just sensitive to focus on Hinata because of NS vs. NH. Any NH interaction starts a wave of debates and we end up dreading focus on Hinata.

In this case the way Hinata acted makes sense because she cares for Naruto.

This does not mean that Naruto likes her. He's been encouraged by many people in the past. Would you be willing to say that IrukaxNaruto is implied by Iruka's peptalks? No. (Ok if you like that pairing, you can run with that. XD I understand.) But this just proves my point. If you like a pairing you can turn any interaction between them into a 'moment.' Whether that moment is leading to something more depends on the moment in context and your own preference. Naruto is encouraged by Hinata which makes sense. She is a Hyuuga and she is the one who has the most right to say that Hyuuga Neji's death is not his fault and that it shouldn't be wasted. Once Naruto has been encouraged, he bounces right back and runs off to hand his Chakra to everyone and their mother. Hinata is happy about holding hands because she likes him. That's exactly what you'd expect. But Naruto doesn't have a 'love' type reaction to it in my opinion. (Holding hands is a big deal, but Hinata touched his face first. I think taking her hand off his face was to thank and reassure her while he gave her Chakra. I don't think he would have initiated hand holding if she hadn't touched him first.)

I also think Hinata is fine as a character and her story about being encouraged by Naruto parallels almost everyone who's met him and interacted him. I don't like the vibe that NH gives off, but that's just my opinion. I won't let it make me hate her character. She has flaws, but so does everyone. (I don't consider being 'shy' a flaw.) If everyone were already perfect, it'd be a boring story full of Mary-sues.

Sakura still has flaws. She was dishonest with Naruto and she hurt him when she started bad mouthing Sasuke and herself. She is far from perfect.

At this point in the manga, everyone is obsessed with Naruto for one reason or another. Who's to say a romantic leaning is bad?

[Baguette]

I can agree. But that's the only major flaw I see about her any more. She has resolved so many over part one and part two. Examples: wanting to get stronger to help Naruto, Changing her views about Naruto himself, finding greater confidence in her abilities as a ninja (Chunin Exams), and more. Once Sakura gets over Sasuke, she will probably have complete character development (although I believe loving Naruto would be complete development if done right). Hinata hasn't been given many flaws to overcome do to her being a side chracter. That's why I belive that for her character to become a well-rounded character, she must overcome all of her character flaws instead most of them like Sakura has.

And that's where we can agree
I've said the same thing in the past, Hinata is a good character, but being the minor character that she is, her character development is not nearly as well-rounded and paced as characters such as Sakura's.
Of course, there remains the issue of Sakura getting proper development as the heroine, but I digress.

@ baquette

this is ns forum, so hinata will get anymosity among us. the same with how sakura get hate by fan in other forum because she hit naruto.

like i said in hinata thread made by hinata fan, she is decent character who overrated by fan and overhype by her lack apparance before her confenssion.

Well we should be above that animosity here. If we treat Hinata just as other fandoms treat Sakura, then what right do we have to get angry and say that we are any better than them?

Edited by Baguette, 31 March 2013 - 02:16 AM.

[Beastbomb]

I didn't have a problem with hinata until 615 and it wasn't caused by the hand-holding. I furious at her disregard for Neji (because i liked his character). After the holding Naruto's hand, there wasn't a thought, action, flashback, follow-up in the next chapter, or anything that gave me the idea that Neji meant more to her than Naruto. All she thought about was how big Naruto's hand was and how safe she felt to hold it.

[Baguette]

I didn't have a problem with hinata until 615 and it wasn't caused by the hand-holding. I furious at her disregard for Neji (because i liked his character). After the holding Naruto's hand, there wasn't a thought, action, flashback, follow-up in the next chapter, or anything that gave me the idea that Neji meant more to her than Naruto. All she thought about was how big Naruto's hand was and how safe she felt to hold it.

She cried for Neji's death, and her entire speech was based off of Neji's words though...
Furthermore, the point of Ch.616 was to symbolize how Neji's spirit lives on as everyone fights in his memory, hence the eagle formations.
Hinata is also shown defending Neji's body in this panel:

Panel --Click here to view--

Nobody, including Hinata, was disregarding Neji.

@Saku-Chan
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Edited by Baguette, 31 March 2013 - 02:23 AM.

[rocci]

And that's where we can agree
I've said the same thing in the past, Hinata is a good character, but being the minor character that she is, her character development is not nearly as well-rounded and paced as characters such as Sakura's.
Of course, there remains the issue of Sakura getting proper development as the heroine, but I digress.



Well we should be above that animosity here. If we treat Hinata just as other fandoms treat Sakura, then what right do we have to get angry and say that we are any better than them?

i don't know if i said this right in english. i think it's confident.

i always treat this fandom like sport club fan. and all sport fan club is same, only look for themself.

[Beastbomb]

She cried for Neji's death, and her entire speech was based off of Neji's words though...
Furthermore, the point of Ch.616 was to symbolize how Neji's spirit lives on as everyone fights in his memory, hence the eagle formations.
Hinata is also shown defending Neji's body in this panel:

Panel --Click here to view--

Nobody, including Hinata, was disregarding Neji.

@Saku-Chan
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Whoa, didn't notice his body in that panel I thought Hinata was just testing out the Kyuubi's chakra. Thats interesting.

[Baguette]

Whoa, didn't notice his body in that panel I thought Hinata was just testing out the Kyuubi's chakra. Thats interesting.

Interesting enough to soften your views towards her?

i don't know if i said this right in english. i think it's confident.

i always treat this fandom like sport club fan. and all sport fan club is same, only look for themself.

That's a cynical way to put it.

Edited by Baguette, 31 March 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[Don-kun]

That's kind of my point. Both statements are untrue and are written through skewed views of Sakura and Hinata.
Neither of them are constantly obsessed with the people they love.

Sorry but every time we see Hinata it's something to do with Naruto so that statement is incorrect, I will agree that some of the people here have some irrational hate towards her character to a point where I honestly believe that most of the dislike are tied with the fact that Hinata is currently standing in NS way, but if you ask me how I feel about Hinata or my opinion of her, well she has never being an interesting person for my liking she could walk 20 times in front of me and I might not acknowledge her at all she isn't my type.

Anyway going back to what you were saying, I think that it's very clear that Hinata is Naruto's satellite and most is not all of her panels proves this.



@rocci
I really sorry about that can you forgive me?



@Saku-Chan
That was a boo post I couldn't agree any more.

Edited by Don-kun, 31 March 2013 - 02:47 AM.

[Beastbomb]

Yeah, i'll admit that, that is an opinion changer . Funny, how easily I can glance over things in manga. it's so annoying

[rocci]

Interesting enough to soften your views towards her?


That's a cynical way to put it.

i am sorry if i said it wrong(my english really2 bad) because i always compare between real madrid and barcelona fierce rivally. it's just a matter of taste. once again i am sorry if i am sound rude (need a private course)

[Baguette]

Yeah, i'll admit that, that is an opinion changer . Funny, how easily I can glance over things in manga. it's so annoying

I didn't notice it myself until my second read, no worries.

i am sorry if i said it wrong(my english really2 bad) because i always compare between real madrid and barcelona fierce rivally. it's just a matter of taste. once again i am sorry if i am sound rude (need a private course)

No you weren't being rude at all. What I was trying to say was that your view was a bit pessimistic.

[Don-kun]

Bolded: Sorry, that's directed more towards people here in general who dislike her development in 615.

By the same standards, Sakura is also afflicted with inability to act around Sasuke. And by this I'm not referring to her fangirling around him, but rather such events as the Kage Summit reunion. Sakura's feelings for Sasuke affected her actions negatively in that she was unable to carry out her resolution to kill him. She let her emotions put her into damsel in distress role (for the second time in one fight, mind you), and would have gotten herself killed if Naruto had not saved her.
Why do we not dislike Sakura for her deadly flaw involving Sasuke, which is arguably many times worse than Hinata's flaw of being shy around Naruto?

One word Hypocrisy:
I try to point that out in the past but I was label as a Sakura hater.

[KnS]

This does not mean that Naruto likes her. He's been encouraged by many people in the past. Would you be willing to say that IrukaxNaruto is implied by Iruka's peptalks? No. (Ok if you like that pairing, you can run with that. XD I understand.) But this just proves my point. If you like a pairing you can turn any interaction between them into a 'moment.' Whether that moment is leading to something more depends on the moment in context and your own preference. Naruto is encouraged by Hinata which makes sense. She is a Hyuuga and she is the one who has the most right to say that Hyuuga Neji's death is not his fault and that it shouldn't be wasted. Once Naruto has been encouraged, he bounces right back and runs off to hand his Chakra to everyone and their mother. Hinata is happy about holding hands because she likes him. That's exactly what you'd expect. But Naruto doesn't have a 'love' type reaction to it in my opinion. (Holding hands is a big deal, but Hinata touched his face first. I think taking her hand off his face was to thank and reassure her while he gave her Chakra. I don't think he would have initiated hand holding if she hadn't touched him first.)

Bolded: I may not have noticed (I haven't been around much lately), but I don't recall reading a comment quite like this before. I really like your phrasing -- the idea that it was Hinata's right, in the context of the Hyuga focus in the story, to impress upon Naruto the meaning of Neji's sacrifice. I like it because it gives hope to the idea that Hinata will someday step up and take on the leadership of her people. That would be very, very good.

As I said when the chapter came out, I liked Hinata's more confident moment. I wanted to see her grow. Then she took a step backward with the whole fangirling about Naruto's hand thing. *sigh* I wish Kishimoto hadn't done that.

Hinata is also shown defending Neji's body in this panel:

Panel --Click here to view--

To clarify, you're suggesting that in the above panel the attack is focused on Neji's dead body? That Hinata is defending his body rather than herself?

Edited by KnS, 31 March 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[Awes9]

Lack of confidence, sure, that's something that she should grow past as part of her development, but why is a shy personality considered a flaw? Do we also consider Sakura's aggressive personality and violent tendencies a flaw, when it's just another part of her inherent character design- as with Hinata?
As to her development relying on Naruto, does that not hold true for many characters in the series?

Neji- it was because of Naruto that he got over his deep-rooted hatred for the main clan and came to believe that one could control their own destiny. Neji repeatedly reinforces the fact that Naruto changed him, first during the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, and then again upon his death. Naruto is the reason he became the person he is today.

Sakura- it was because of Naruto that she gained the motivation to work harder and be able to help her allies. Even now, much of her upcoming development revolves around her wanting to something to help Naruto in a meaningful way. Naruto is the reason that she overcame uselessness and became the kunoichi she is today.

With Hinata it's the same thing- it was because of Naruto that she was able to start overcoming her confidence issues and find the courage to stand up for herself. Naruto has been her moral support throughout the series, and Ch.615 turns things around by making her the one to morally support Naruto and help bring him out of his slump. How is this bad development in any way?



That's being a bit biased and selective. It would be like saying:
Sakura is one dimensional because: Sasuke kun, Sasuke kun, Sasuke kun, and more Sasuke kun in case you missed it.
We're not bashing Sakura just because she is still infatuated with Sasuke, are we?


And are you saying that just because he is not fond of Hinata (which you can't prove), that he should not give her development?


No, I genuinely want to defend Hinata. The way she's treated around here is almost like an equivalent of how Sakura is treated on sites such as NF and NB.

99% of Hinata's dialogues involve Naruto one way or the other, I am not making that up it's in the manga, you can't get more one dimensional than that. Now show me the same is true for Sakura, I sure would like to see that.

Second point : I don’t know how you concluded from my statement but my point was that only the author should decide what to do, not the fans. And where did I say Kishi doesn't like Hinata ? I don't care what Kishi thinks about her, I was just answering your comparison between Hinata and Shika which was wrong, Kishi always wanted to develop shika and he has done so during the manga, can't say the same for Hinata whose development feels like an asspull at the expense of Other characters main character included.

[Baguette]

Sorry but every time we see Hinata it's something to do with Naruto so that statement is incorrect, I will agree that some of the people here have some irrational hate towards her character to a point where I honestly believe that most of the dislike are tied with the fact that Hinata is currently standing in NS way, but if you ask me how I feel about Hinata or my opinion of her, well she has never being an interesting person for my liking she could walk 20 times in front of me and I might not acknowledge her at all she isn't my type.

Anyway going back to what you were saying, I think that it's very clear that Hinata is Naruto's satellite and most is not all of her panels proves this.

Not everything about Hinata pertains to Naruto. She also cares for her teammates and works to help her comrades.

Panels --Click here to view--

Edited by Baguette, 31 March 2013 - 03:00 AM.

[Shadow1275]

Sorry but every time we see Hinata it's something to do with Naruto so that statement is incorrect, I will agree that some of the people here have some irrational hate towards her character to a point where I honestly believe that most of the dislike are tied with the fact that Hinata is currently standing in NS way, but if you ask me how I feel about Hinata or my opinion of her, well she has never being an interesting person for my liking she could walk 20 times in front of me and I might not acknowledge her at all she isn't my type.

Anyway going back to what you were saying, I think that it's very clear that Hinata is Naruto's satellite and most is not all of her panels proves this.



@rocci
I really sorry about that can you forgive me?
In my opinion, Hinata is not comepletely a one-dimensional character. She does want her father's approval especially since Hanabi had it, and she comes from a powerful clan. However, I agree that too much of her character revolves around Naruto. The thing about Sakura is that even though Sasuke plays a role in her development, he's not everything. For example she has feelings for Naruto whether they be love[my opinion] or a very close friendship. Also, not all of her story revolves around Naruto either for example her relationship with Chiyo during the Gaara pursuit arc.


@Saku-Chan
That was a boo post I couldn't agree any more.

Edited by Shadow1275, 31 March 2013 - 03:03 AM.

[Awes9]

Not everything about Hinata pertains to Naruto. She is also cares for her teammates and works to help her comrades.

Panels --Click here to view--

There's so little of that compared to her "Naruto Kuning", many people myself included would respect Hinata if her love wasn't thz core of her character. It's not that hard just keep her love for Naruto but make it only part of her character, I sure would like her more in that case.

[Baguette]

Second point : I don’t know how you concluded from my statement but my point was that only the author should decide what to do, not the fans. And where did I say Kishi doesn't like Hinata ? I don't care what Kishi thinks about her, I was just answering your comparison between Hinata and Shika which was wrong, Kishi always wanted to develop shika and he has done so during the manga, can't say the same for Hinata whose development feels like an asspull at the expense of Other characters main character included.

That's my point. You don't know what Kishi thinks about Hinata, her popularity not withstanding. It's his choice whether to develop Hinata or not, just as it is his choice whether to develop Shikamaru or not.
Her development feels like an asspull? Is this the NS shipper/anti-Hinata in you talking? Because if you look at the context of the story, her development honestly feels fitting to me.