1649 replies to this topic

[Gojira]

Of course she would think of Sasuke. She believes she is in love with him. Why would she bring up Naruto's name when she doesn't believe she's in love with him? But this doesn't disprove that Naruto is more important to her than Sasuke is. Unless you're the believer that romantic love trumps all!

What Sai, Naruto, and Karin said took place before the war. They didn't state anything regards to Sakura's feelings after the team seven reunion. What Kakashi said was only two days after the love-letter nin confrontation, Kakashi's words are an updated observation of her feelings and hold more validity and is timely reliable than Naruto, and Sai's statements that was BEFORE the team seven confrontation and the murder attempts.

Are you seriously saying that during the love-letter nin confrontation, she was in love with Sasuke, only to fall out of love JUST two days later? That doesn't make sense to me. I would have agreed with you if it was before chapter 675.

1. Clearly she's atleast partially aware of her feelings for him, I'm not going to bring Kishi's statement up again but considering all the NS moments in part 2 (the flirting, offering to feed him, confessing to him whether it was fake or real) It would be hard to believe she hasn't at least considered it. Hell part of the confession was basically just her giving explanations why Naruto was better for her than Sasuke

2. Which doesn't contradict what I said considering Kakashi's statement happened after the scene

3. Precisely it doesn't make sense to anyone that's part of why its so kittening confusing.
 

Pepsi@ maybe I missed something but when did she chose Sasuke over Naruto? The manga keeps showing Sakura choosing Naruto over Sasuke.

Not directly. But this was right after her real/fake confession and the murder attempts, the one she referred to as the someone else was the person she's been drifting apart from, the person who tried to kill her while the person she confessed to, and has been implied to be in love with throughout part 2 and in the databooks doesn't even really come into the equation. My point is that its Anti-SS but it doesn't really do NS any favors either. I get that 540 is a red herring its d=just one that doesn't make much sense. Hence why I kept bringing it up because I'm trying to make sense of it (luckily now its atleast slightly relevant) but thefact that its an old as hell topic seems to be getting on peoples' nerves.

You're right guys, I just saw 631 VIZ translation and now I'm sure it's not worthy to pay attention to their biased translation LOL"girl-friend"! Pairing War must be very intense if they have to twist translation in order to sell more.

Did they seriously play the "girl who is a friend" card? Haven't seen that little excuse since Pokémon 2000

Edited by Pepsi, 13 May 2014 - 05:00 AM.

[narusaku256]

Can someone please give me a valid reason/arguement as to why Hinata is better than Sakura? Or why is Sakura the so called 'kitten'? What has she done that she gets tagged with such tags? I don't really understand why Hinata gets all the sympathy in the world and Sakura is just smacked across her face! Maybe if someone can clear this picture for me. It just makes me wonder and give a second check to my opinions on Sakura. Though that won't change, come what may but still, has Sakura really done something wrong or is it just plain biased!

[Gojira]

Can someone please give me a valid reason/arguement as to why Hinata is better than Sakura? Or why is Sakura the so called 'b*tch'? What has she done that she gets tagged with such tags? I don't really understand why Hinata gets all the sympathy in the world and Sakura is just smacked across her face! Maybe if someone can clear this picture for me. It just makes me wonder and give a second check to my opinions on Sakura. Though that won't change, come what may but still, has Sakura really done something wrong or is it just plain biased!

Because westerners hate bossy women protagonists just look at the hate Chi Chi gets

I just feel bad for Kate Higgins from what I hear she enjoys playing Sakura but I bet she can't help but notice all the hate her character gets.

Edited by Pepsi, 13 May 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[narusaku256]

Because westerners hate bossy women protagonists just look at the hate Chi Chi gets

I just feel bad for Kate Higgins from what I hear she enjoys playing Sakura but I bet she can't help but notice all the hate her character gets.

So, its just plain hatred and nothing rational/logical/worth giving a thought about?

[ramenanmitsu]

1. Clearly she's atleast partially aware of her feelings for him, I'm not going to bring Kishi's statement up again but considering all the NS moments in part 2 (the flirting, offering to feed him, confessing to him whether it was fake or real) It would be hard to believe she hasn't at least considered it. Hell part of the confession was basically just her giving explanations why Naruto was better for her than Sasuke2. Which doesn't contradict what I said considering Kakashi's statement happened after the scene3. Precisely it doesn't make sense to anyone that's part of why its so kittening confusing. 

1. Where was she clearly AWARE of her feelings? Don't mistake me, I agree with you that her feelings for Naruto has been steadily growing. But I don't ever see she was aware of it romantically. The flirting and the feeding ramen was a affectionate move, but I don't think she did those things consciously because she KNOWS she has feelings for him. We don't have proof of that. Naruto and Sai, who you brought up earlier has explained about the confession and it was said that she did it to release Naruto from his burden of the promise. No characters have ever confirmed about Sakura's own inner feelings during the confession, except for Naruto's accusation that she was lying.

2. You cannot outright ignore a statement that explains a situation that happened before the statement. That would be outright denial.
Anti-Sakura fans are still stating that she did no training to become more powerful during the Kage Summit arc. Their comment is proven wrong when chapter 631 came out and she was indeed saving constant energy for the Byakugou no in for three years. Yet, they deny it because it wasn't shown between chapter 400-500. Anti-Itachi fans cannot deny that Itachi loved Sasuke during part one as well just because there were no panels to prove It was proved after part two that he was concerned for his little brother all along. Anti-JiraTsu fans cannot deny that Jiraiya has loved Tsunade even during part one just because there was no panel showing it. The moment he died during the Pein fight, it was confirmed he loved her all along. Do you understand what I mean?

3. It does make sense. But I agree that the timing of chapter 540 was not ideal.

[Solid-Samurai233]

So, its just plain hatred and nothing rational/logical/worth giving a thought about?

I've always seen the Sakura hate as a bandwagon that most people tend to jump on simply for the fact that it's the popular opinion. They don't look at Sakura in detail so they form their opinions based on the majority.

Edited by Solid-Samurai233, 13 May 2014 - 05:21 AM.

[narusaku256]

I've always seen the Sakura hate as a bandwagon that most people tend to jump on simply for the fact that it's the popular opinion. They don't look at Sakura in detail so they form their opinions based on the majority.

Fair enough! No use debating then. Haters gonna hate, it seems!

[Chatte]

Lulz, Viz eing biased... Why was I sure this is gonna happen?!

[luffyq1]

Over 70 pages....

To be fair, before I say anything more, not all of the 71 pages are about Kakashi's comment. There were other aspects of the chapter that was discussed, we didn't just focused on the pairing related aspects.

 

However, my fascination (and my frustration) stems from the fact that most people here believe that Kakashi's comment was meant to be against SS. I find that absurd, not because we believe it (especially considering the context), but the fact that soo many of us believe it. What Kakashi said was vague, he just said that Sakura's feelings are different for Sasuke, though what it is wasn't clearly put forth. Nothing was said that she doesn't love him anymore, even if he was referring to her love of Sasuke in past tense. The past tense could implicate her old love of Sasuke, not her new love. Her old love of Sasuke would've been told in past tense, while her new feelings would have used present tense. Kakashi could have very well be just mentioning Sakura's love in the past because he was making comparison to who she was in the past to who she is now. 

 

I am not saying this because this how I viewed the scene, but to give another possibility of what Kakashi met. I feel like so many of us are soo focused if it was pro-SS or anti-SS, that we failed to see it any other way. We keep calling other fandoms as bias idiots, who only selectively read the manga to view it the way they want to. Yet we are also very bias, so of course we are going want to view the Kakashi moment as an anti-SS. That is to be expected, but when we start clamoring for raws that probably wouldn't have changed anything, that is when I couldn't stand of what is happening. It isn't because we wanted the raws, I actually wanted to see the raws myself, it is the fact that automatically we had to call anyone who favored another ship as unreliable. I found hypocritical because we are unreliable as well. We want to see the moment as anti-SS, so of course we would support anything that would suggest that. It is that bias that makes weary to trust any translation from any fan that has shown any favoritism to any ship, including NS.

 

Why wouldn't I trust the opinion of fans of my own ship, because I feel like we are being to closed-minded by this. A lot of us saw it as anti-SS, so we rejected anything that may say otherwise, even if it is true. In the see of fake raws and spoilers, every time something is posted online that even seems to support it as pro-SS, we just call the poster a bias SS shipper and ignore it. Remember when we realized that an SS fan did have the real raws and had translated them? We quickly discard his translation as "another bias SS fan mistranslating the manga to match their own opinions". We then had members on our own site translate the raw, which, coincidently, matched what we wanted to hear. How is having our own guys translate a raw more trustworthy that other fans of opposing ships?

 

I just want to make sure everyone knows that I am not trying to discredit any of our members that attempted to translate the raw themselves. Some of our members do have credibility to them, and several even went the extra mile to explain why certain phrases mean something different in Japanese. However that doesn't excuse the fact that they are still bias to NS. so when they translate the raw as something that benefits us, I feel like I need to be skeptical. Not due to the fact that I don't trust them, yet to be fair. If SS fans are known to eskew translations to benefit their ship, than NS fans have that same possibilities. 

 

I know we keep ensuring each other on this site that we should just ignore the outside fandoms, which I agree to a point. There is a lot of stupid fans out there, especially shippers. They will always be there to say something idiotic or mean-spirited. We should ignore most of it, but we all have to remember that not all fans (including shippers) are like that. Not every SS fan would purposely mistranslate the manga, I wouldn't purposely mistranslate the manga to fit with my own views, even if it is against it. It is frustrating how all shipping fandoms (including NS) always seemed to have to be right. When the SS fan did post the real raws and translated them, we called them fake and that he shouldn't be trusted. Even when they proved to be real, we still have to discredit him for being an SS fan. If I have to discredit him for being a bias SS fan, than I have to discredit every NS fan for their translations. 

 

I don't think what Kakashi said did anything to the SS pairing, if anything, (at least in my opinion), it seemed to just reassure us that either Sakura's feelings are completely different, not related to romantic love, or that she loves him on a great level of romanticism. Yet I am utterly shock to find so many of us purely seeing it as "sinking" the SS ship, when it could very easily have just renewed the fans beliefs (which it did). So I am here reading comments of calling the SS fans dumb, and us right, when we ourselves are mocking to very same thing they are supposedly doing to us. I wrote all of this to point out that we are not being fair, and, frankly, are being somewhat mean-spirited ourselves.

Basically, we should stop acting self-righteous and not condemn every translator that even so much as hints to being pro SS, right?

[soraandven]

You know, when I saw this picture, my heart sort of ached.

 

Seeing these pictures of Kushina interacting with Team Minato (especially this one) made me think of how Obito is an oprhan, and I thought.. what if he liked Kushina so much that he wished she was his mother? I can imagine them having so much fun together, and then he goes back home to his empty house, just like Naruto does. It compliments the parallel between them well, and it's also interesting, because in a way Obito looks like a little Menma. 

she might of teased him about rin to

[narusaku256]

You know, when I saw this picture, my heart sort of ached.

 

Seeing these pictures of Kushina interacting with Team Minato (especially this one) made me think of how Obito is an oprhan, and I thought.. what if he liked Kushina so much that he wished she was his mother? I can imagine them having so much fun together, and then he goes back home to his empty house, just like Naruto does. It compliments the parallel between them well, and it's also interesting, because in a way Obito looks like a little Menma. 

Are these the latest filler episodes or the Naruto games? 

[Jo-nov]

Over 70 pages....

To be fair, before I say anything more, not all of the 71 pages are about Kakashi's comment. There were other aspects of the chapter that was discussed, we didn't just focused on the pairing related aspects.

 

However, my fascination (and my frustration) stems from the fact that most people here believe that Kakashi's comment was meant to be against SS. I find that absurd, not because we believe it (especially considering the context), but the fact that soo many of us believe it. What Kakashi said was vague, he just said that Sakura's feelings are different for Sasuke, though what it is wasn't clearly put forth. Nothing was said that she doesn't love him anymore, even if he was referring to her love of Sasuke in past tense. The past tense could implicate her old love of Sasuke, not her new love. Her old love of Sasuke would've been told in past tense, while her new feelings would have used present tense. Kakashi could have very well be just mentioning Sakura's love in the past because he was making comparison to who she was in the past to who she is now. 

 

I am not saying this because this how I viewed the scene, but to give another possibility of what Kakashi met. I feel like so many of us are soo focused if it was pro-SS or anti-SS, that we failed to see it any other way. We keep calling other fandoms as bias idiots, who only selectively read the manga to view it the way they want to. Yet we are also very bias, so of course we are going want to view the Kakashi moment as an anti-SS. That is to be expected, but when we start clamoring for raws that probably wouldn't have changed anything, that is when I couldn't stand of what is happening. It isn't because we wanted the raws, I actually wanted to see the raws myself, it is the fact that automatically we had to call anyone who favored another ship as unreliable. I found hypocritical because we are unreliable as well. We want to see the moment as anti-SS, so of course we would support anything that would suggest that. It is that bias that makes weary to trust any translation from any fan that has shown any favoritism to any ship, including NS.

 

Why wouldn't I trust the opinion of fans of my own ship, because I feel like we are being to closed-minded by this. A lot of us saw it as anti-SS, so we rejected anything that may say otherwise, even if it is true. In the see of fake raws and spoilers, every time something is posted online that even seems to support it as pro-SS, we just call the poster a bias SS shipper and ignore it. Remember when we realized that an SS fan did have the real raws and had translated them? We quickly discard his translation as "another bias SS fan mistranslating the manga to match their own opinions". We then had members on our own site translate the raw, which, coincidently, matched what we wanted to hear. How is having our own guys translate a raw more trustworthy that other fans of opposing ships?

 

I just want to make sure everyone knows that I am not trying to discredit any of our members that attempted to translate the raw themselves. Some of our members do have credibility to them, and several even went the extra mile to explain why certain phrases mean something different in Japanese. However that doesn't excuse the fact that they are still bias to NS. so when they translate the raw as something that benefits us, I feel like I need to be skeptical. Not due to the fact that I don't trust them, yet to be fair. If SS fans are known to eskew translations to benefit their ship, than NS fans have that same possibilities. 

 

I know we keep ensuring each other on this site that we should just ignore the outside fandoms, which I agree to a point. There is a lot of stupid fans out there, especially shippers. They will always be there to say something idiotic or mean-spirited. We should ignore most of it, but we all have to remember that not all fans (including shippers) are like that. Not every SS fan would purposely mistranslate the manga, I wouldn't purposely mistranslate the manga to fit with my own views, even if it is against it. It is frustrating how all shipping fandoms (including NS) always seemed to have to be right. When the SS fan did post the real raws and translated them, we called them fake and that he shouldn't be trusted. Even when they proved to be real, we still have to discredit him for being an SS fan. If I have to discredit him for being a bias SS fan, than I have to discredit every NS fan for their translations. 

 

I don't think what Kakashi said did anything to the SS pairing, if anything, (at least in my opinion), it seemed to just reassure us that either Sakura's feelings are completely different, not related to romantic love, or that she loves him on a great level of romanticism. Yet I am utterly shock to find so many of us purely seeing it as "sinking" the SS ship, when it could very easily have just renewed the fans beliefs (which it did). So I am here reading comments of calling the SS fans dumb, and us right, when we ourselves are mocking to very same thing they are supposedly doing to us. I wrote all of this to point out that we are not being fair, and, frankly, are being somewhat mean-spirited ourselves.

 

First of all, thanks for stating how you feel.  I can understand that pairing debates can get a bit hostile at times, and I even personally like discussions that deal with pro-pairings instead of anti-pairings. 

 

While I agree that some people may come off as narrow-minded about this particular topic, it should be noted that at least some of us are looking at the previous chapters and the context of the images that went along with the text for clues on how Sakura's feelings for Sasuke have changed.  For example, Kakashi is observing Sakura as she is discussing Madara with Naruto and Sasuke.  If we compare Sakura's image to how Kakashi remembered her, we can see that she is no longer the smitten girl that she used to be.  She stands tall with her teammates and greatly matured from how she used to be. As Kakashi is thinking about Sakura's feelings, she is also not showing any visual signs of attraction to Sasuke as she is talking.  That goes along with the idea that Kakashi is thinking that Sakura doesn't love Sasuke romantically anymore. 

 

I wouldn't say that SS is dead or anything yet, though.  I believe the true meaning of Kakashi's words will come out soon anyway, so we may just need to be patient.  It will get interesting. 

Did they seriously play the "girl who is a friend" card? Haven't seen that little excuse since Pokémon 2000

Yeah, but that was quickly cleared up.  As far as I know, the major debate for chapter 631 is how serious Naruto was when he answered his dad's question. 

Edited by Jo-nov, 13 May 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[Gojira]

1. Where was she clearly AWARE of her feelings? Don't mistake me, I agree with you that her feelings for Naruto has been steadily growing. But I don't ever see she was aware of it romantically. The flirting and the feeding ramen was a affectionate move, but I don't think she did those things consciously because she KNOWS she has feelings for him. We don't have proof of that. Naruto and Sai, who you brought up earlier has explained about the confession and it was said that she did it to release Naruto from his burden of the promise. No characters have ever confirmed about Sakura's own inner feelings during the confession, except for Naruto's accusation that she was lying.

2. You cannot outright ignore a statement that explains a situation that happened before the statement. That would be outright denial.
Anti-Sakura fans are still stating that she did no training to become more powerful during the Kage Summit arc. Their comment is proven wrong when chapter 631 came out and she was indeed saving constant energy for the Byakugou no in for three years. Yet, they deny it because it wasn't shown between chapter 400-500. Anti-Itachi fans cannot deny that Itachi loved Sasuke during part one as well just because there were no panels to prove It was proved after part two that he was concerned for his little brother all along. Anti-JiraTsu fans cannot deny that Jiraiya has loved Tsunade even during part one just because there was no panel showing it. The moment he died during the Pein fight, it was confirmed he loved her all along. Do you understand what I mean?

3. It does make sense. But I agree that the timing of chapter 540 was not ideal.

1. Fair enough I suppose but again you can't really deny that the thought of being with Naruto hasn't crossed her mind, the whole genuine/fake confession revolved around that so we know she has atleast thought about it I mean she did openly admit naruto being better for her than Sasuke. Not exactly sure where the interview fits in terms of legitimacy but people here seem to be pretty split about it.

2. As far as I can tell Kakashi didn't say she fell out of love because of the murder attempts in fact again 540 causes a problem with that because from the looks of it she didn't seem too bothered by it until the thought of Sasuke not being a great guy came back

3. I agree that its ridiculous that her change of heart because of the murder attempts didn't entirely start affecting her until 540 but that is the impression its giving me either that or its being misinterpreted and she was originally referring to someone else. Which also kind of begs the question why she wasn't really affected as much when he tried to kill her and the others during the Sai arc.

Edited by Pepsi, 13 May 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[luffyq1]

So, its just plain hatred and nothing rational/logical/worth giving a thought about?

I've pretty much seen all kinds of Sakura hate. There's the mindless hate, the banwagoners hate and believe it or not there's rational hate. Majority of that stems from the kage arc.

[narusaku256]

I've pretty much seen all kinds of Sakura hate. There's the mindless hate, the banwagoners hate and believe it or not there's rational hate. Majority of that stems from the kage arc.

Can you explain to me, the...rational hate?

[soraandven]

Are these the latest filler episodes or the Naruto games? 

the naruto games  of course seeing ova's like this make me forget half the crap pierott does for the anime although the team 7 finale was the perfect way to end the kakashi anbu arc the 3 of them are finally one again and this week we will see them truly work together

[narusaku256]

the naruto games  of course seeing ova's like this make me forget half the crap pierott does for the anime although the team 7 finale was the perfect way to end the kakashi anbu arc the 3 of them are finally one again and this week we will see them truly work together

Oh yeah!!! New chapter is barely hours away. Its gonna be Legen *wait for it* Dary(I hope so)

[Gojira]

by the way did we ever figure out what the raw on 675 said during when team 7 was bickering? Whether or not she was telling Naruto and Sasuke to stop arguing or if she was telling Sasuke to stop bugging Naruto or something?

[Jo-nov]

Also, it is probably not an oversight that Kakashi decided not to think about how Sakura stated that she hated Naruto the most.

Edited by Jo-nov, 13 May 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[soraandven]

Oh yeah!!! New chapter is barely hours away. Its gonna be Legen *wait for it* Dary(I hope so)

yeah and this time they will not make the same mistakes they did the first time