19964 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

This. The war arc is definitely the worst one in the manga in terms of pace, development, events and writing.

Hopefully once it's over the manga will revert back to decency, which I think will happen

What's funny is that war usually never works in manga favors. Perhaps the only one I don't mind was One Piece. I thought it was handle nicely, especially shocking ending. Well, near end.

[StriderC]

So because Naruto and Hinata have been giving each other pep talks, Naruto and Sakura's bond is now somehow lessened?

I understand Sakura has been gone for a while (well, she did contribute alot in the war with the Zetsus and what not), but still. Would you have rather had Sakura slap Naruto and give him a pep talk in 615, then go on to have NH become canon later on?

We all just need a little patience. Sakura's on the battlefield, the Sasuke stuff/the flashbacks are almost over, and we're in the climax of the battle.

Sounds like this in response to what I've said and no, that's not what I meant. Their bond has been lessened anyway given how little to nothing we've seen of the two interacting throughout the war. This has been going on for YEARS. No one's doubting that they're gonna have their moment in the future, but it's to the point where I don't even care as much about pairings anymore. We've been patient for years, and then some including myself are tired of waiting. I just want some heroine development, and if NS is the route he wants to go and which I'm sure he is, he needs to drop NH development at this point and focus on NS because if he doesn't the quality of NS will decrease when it does happen.

Kirabook

QFT! Love your post and you've pretty much summed it for me. Honestly, at this point, it doesn't even feel like Naruto...

I also hate how in a lot of mangas including this one where the quality of it goes bye bye! Especially during fights. I remember when fights were a lot strategy, and all that jazz. Now it's "Who has the biggest explosion no jutsu!"

Edited by StriderC, 30 March 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[swagosaurus]

Sounds like this in response to what I've said and no, that's not what I meant. Their bond has been lessened anyway given how little to nothing we've seen of the two interacting throughout the war. This has been going on for YEARS. No one's doubting that they're gonna have their moment in the future, but it's to the point where I don't even care as much about pairings anymore. We've been patient for years, and then some including myself are tired of waiting. I just want some heroine development, and if NS is the route he wants to go and which I'm sure he is, he needs to drop NH development at this point and focus on NS because if he doesn't the quality of NS will decrease when it does happen.

Ah. I agree. IMO, Hinata's and NH development, if you can call it that, is done. Kishi will probably bring some resolution to her feelings for Naruto, but that's it.

Look at it this way. What else could Hinata do that could top 615? What more could come from their relationship? Nothing. Their bond isn't as deep as Naruto's and Sakura's, and there's no romantic connotations between them. (on Naruto's side anyways)

It kind of seems like, ever since 611, he's deliberately kept Sakura from the spotlight. He's snuck her into a few panels, but nothing major, unlike the other characters. (and Sai)

Perhaps he's saving her for something big. It's not optimism either; if everyone else in the K11 is getting development and important screen time, why isn't Sakura? He could have thrown her into the battle, or had her heal people, but there's been nothing so far.

(Which, IMO, is a good thing, believe it or not. )

Edited by swagosaurus, 30 March 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Ah. I agree. IMO, Hinata's and NH development, if you can call it that, is done. Kishi will probably bring some resolution to her feelings for Naruto, but that's it.

Look at it this way. What else could Hinata do that could top 615? What more could come from their relationship? Nothing. Their bond isn't as deep as Naruto's and Sakura's, and there's no romantic connotations between them. (on Naruto's side anyways)

It kind of seems like, ever since 611, he's deliberately kept Sakura from the spotlight. He's snuck her into a few panels, but nothing major, unlike the other characters. (and Sai)

Perhaps he's saving her for something big. It's not optimism either; if everyone else in the K11 is getting development and important screen time, why isn't Sakura? He could have thrown her into the battle, or had her heal people, but there's been nothing so far.

(Which, IMO, is a good thing, believe it or not. )

Well, the fact she appeared in panels that really not needed tells me that Kishi is still aware of her and her status. That said it's the matter of what's coming for her that's on our minds. I'll wait until the end of battle to give my final review on it. I can't agree with anyone of you until everything is officially over.

[Inferno180]

What's funny is that war usually never works in manga favors. Perhaps the only one I don't mind was One Piece. I thought it was handle nicely, especially shocking ending. Well, near end.

Only thing I did not like about the whitebeard war was how the entire cast save luffy was cut for almost 2 years, least kishi gave some of his characters like team 10 and gaara development over this space. Also yeah the death of ace was sad, but I'm still pissed that he could have lived by just honestly running, it was not as impacting to me like the death of Jiriaya in this which served a purpose. Believe me, one piece is good and I love it over Naruto from time to time because there are no pairings in it so people can just be good and I'm liking the new arc with the trap for the mera mera fruit so someone else is trying to get the firepower.

Anyways there is still too much going for NaruSaku to end, all we can really do is just wait and see as we get more.

Its true, Kishi could have done more, I mean how good would it have been if during the Sasuke and Sai arc, she got into a fight with Kabuto? That would have been good, medic ninja vs medic ninja, furthermore even during the war such as against one of the 7 swordsmen, not just have fodder ninja help and somehow most were taken down offscreen, we got the time for their fights in the fillers. I mean yeah she smashed Sasori, Pain's centipede, and countless Zetsu aside from the neji one, but she could have been in more. I kinda feel like She and Sai were cut out of a good fight from Hidan, I mean it would have been more exciting if the re-enforcements of team 7 for team 10 did more. Shikamaru working with Sakura and Sai could have been better.

One thing I actually like about some fillers is Sakura gets more action at least, I mean they are at least showing she has the abilities present, Kishi is just focused on the story and continues pushing things further. Heck one thing I loved about UNS2 and 3 was how there were battles Sakura could have had time for, Kishi just did not do it, some of these include her fighting Kabuto, Konan, and one of the seven swordsmen. Heck Kishi missed many chances here, just give her at least one more battle or role in one in the manga is good enough. Heck for the Konan one, you can say he missed opportunity to use her too, she could have at least had a paper clone or something to monitor and fight. Sakura has the skills, she is good, kishi just never made time for her. I'm just glad there is media and whatnot letting her still have fights with some screentime, even if they are fillers, at least its more action.

[Beastbomb]

My God you people are depressing

Barely anything positive in here

Edited by Beastbomb, 30 March 2013 - 11:32 PM.

[Awes9]

Ah. I agree. IMO, Hinata's and NH development, if you can call it that, is done. Kishi will probably bring some resolution to her feelings for Naruto, but that's it.

Look at it this way. What else could Hinata do that could top 615? What more could come from their relationship? Nothing. Their bond isn't as deep as Naruto's and Sakura's, and there's no romantic connotations between them. (on Naruto's side anyways)

It kind of seems like, ever since 611, he's deliberately kept Sakura from the spotlight. He's snuck her into a few panels, but nothing major, unlike the other characters. (and Sai)

Perhaps he's saving her for something big. It's not optimism either; if everyone else in the K11 is getting development and important screen time, why isn't Sakura? He could have thrown her into the battle, or had her heal people, but there's been nothing so far.

(Which, IMO, is a good thing, believe it or not. )

Good thing maybe for Sakura and NS but is that good writing ? So you put Sakura and NS on hold just because you have something planned later on down the road ? That's what a lot of us are complaining about, it's up to Kishi to prove me wrong but the impression I get is the next sequence of events involving Sakura and NS will come as unnatural and forced as the Hinata and NH and I regret that, I prefer gradual development than sudden and out of nowhere last moment development. Time will tell if I'm wrong but I can't see any other way around right now

[StrikerTheNoble]

My God you people are depressing

Barely anything positive in here

Tell me about it. It`s almost as bad as when the 64 volume came out. On that day you guys actaully managed to depress with the lack of positive attitute.
Now that I got that out of my system. I will attempt to start a topic about how great Sakura is and how sweet the way Naruto is protecting her is. Im sure the topic will get over run by negative walls of text but I tried.

Here it goes:

Isn`t Sakura great. And I think the way Naruto is always protecting her is really sweet.



I urge people to contribute to this discussion so we can bring some happiness to this topic.

[Beastbomb]

I think Sakura's panel in chapter in 615 holds some importance. If Kishi is able to somehow connect present NH developments and sakura's feelings, plus add her into some more fights and dialogue between her and Naruto, I would definatly believe that Sakura's chracter will have good development for her heroine title. A big future NS moment will only improve my outlook further. I haven't been reading the manga as long as others and have recently caught up with the manga. The way I see it, the war arc isn't written that badly. The events run together pretty smoothly in my opinion.

[FrenchMyToast]

There are some good points here. Whenever I get down because of NaruHina, I just remind myself that as of right now, the only character that Naruto has confirmed feelings for is Sakura. Any of the interactions that Naruto and Hinata have had can be seen as platonic on Naruto's side. I guess it's just how you want to see things. Even I saw the hand holding as romantic, until 616 that is. 616 cheapened it immensely, and it can be argued that Naruto was only thinking about passing on Kurama's chakra. And Kishi managed to sneak Sakura into at least one or two panels in all the chapters, even in 615. but then she suddenly vanishes. I don't believe that he actually forgot her. He managed to draw an amazing picture starring Team 7, yet he just forgets the heroine (who he just drew) and instead remembers to draw Akamaru with a Kyuubi cloak? Yeah, not buying it. At least we can hope a Sakura moment is coming. Just anything to shut those haters up. I'm getting real tired of these "Sakura is so useless" punks.

Edited by FrenchMyToast, 30 March 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[kirabook]

I'm sorry, but not everything needs to be like this all the time:




Also, analyzing the manga critically is not inherently negative. I forgot I wasn't even supposed to be in here anymore since just about every topic that isn't puking rainbows is 'negative'. This is the debate thread, not the happy go lucky thread.

[StriderC]

I'm sorry, but not everything needs to be like this all the time:




Also, analyzing the manga critically is not inherently negative. I forgot I wasn't even supposed to be in here anymore since just about every topic that isn't puking rainbows is 'negative'. This is the debate thread, not the happy go lucky thread.

This this this this and did I mention, this!

[KnS]

Just answered your own question. This isnt Narutos most needed time. Just as the Battle against Pein wasnt his most needed time.

The Battle against Sasuke will be his most needed time, and the time he will most need her.

Sasuke is the one who will represent the opposite mind set the need for vengance, and cycle of hatred.

it is then that he will need Sakura more then ever to help him break that cycle.

I agree. The moment of Naruto's greatest need is not yet upon him, and we don't know for sure what form that need will take.

Even if Sasuke is ultimately redeemed in the technical sense, I believe it's possible Naruto will still face some kind of serious crisis of acceptance where Sasuke is concerned. But however Kishimoto decides to shape the final events, my expectation is that Sakura will not be standing between the two guys so much as she will be standing with Naruto.

If you look at it with an optimistic perspective, and given the information we've received, Kishi's perspective, for the confession, it's a pretty fantastic moment for Sakura as a heroine and as a character.

I agree with this, too. The confession was frustrating because it poured fuel on the NS fire, and managed to raise as many questions as it answered. But in my opinion that's what made it great. If everything had been resolved back then, neat and tidy, there would have been less tension throughout the rest of the manga -- especially in the final Team 7 showdown.

As kirabook has pointed out countless times, very little manga time has passed since Sakura's confession -- since we saw Naruto's elated and hopeful expression when he first heard Sakura say she loved him. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Sakura's confession proved Naruto's feelings for her. He loves her, and he wants her to love him. The look on his face was unmistakeable. As plain as day. And when Sakura said, "If you don't like me then just say so!!" he didn't deny it. He loves her, and in manga time that happened only a short time ago.

The fact that Naruto argued that Sakura still loves Sasuke has no bearing on his own love for Sakura. In fact it is a reflection of his love for her. He still believes she loves Sasuke, and he didn't want her lying to herself about it. Not to mention it was easier for Naruto to believe she was lying to herself than it was for him to accept that even she could or would be willing to give up on Sasuke. Naruto is more sensitive to people giving up on Sasuke than he is to the feelings of his own heart.

The fact that Naruto accepts Sakura's love for Sasuke, and in a sad display of selflessness ends up championing it himself during the confession, doesn't mean he has given up on his feelings for Sakura. Naruto has always known of and accepted Sakura's love for Sasuke. The confession didn't make that better or worse. It is what it is. Naruto is not that easily changed.

And that's why the fact that Naruto accepts Sakura's love for Sasuke does not make his heart free for Hinata. His heart has belonged to Sakura in the past, and at this point he still loves her. As I said, that's the one clear takeaway from Sakura's confession, and we have not seen a single moment -- in thought, word, or deed -- to indicate Naruto considers Hinata as anything more than a friend and peer.

And about Neji dying to bring Naruto and Hinata closer; there was no difference in their relationship from 615 compared to the rest of their moments. I think we all need to realize that Kishi knows how popular a character Hinata is; she needs some decent closure if Kishi wants to keep his manga as popular and successful as it is. Sure, it's just a simple side character, but she's RIDICULOUSLY popular, both inside Japan and outside.

Exactly. I wrote an entire post about this (found here) before, so I don't want to go over it again.

I honestly don't get why so many NS fans are (a) so impatient, and (b) so upset about Hinata. If you slow down and calmly look at all the details in context -- and within the scope of the entire manga -- you can see that:

+ Sasuke is still off in his own world, without consideration for the feelings of Naruto or Sakura.
+ Sakura is even more confused by her conflicting feelings for Sasuke and Naruto, although she has chosen Naruto as her top priority.
+ Hinata still loves Naruto despite not really knowing him or having spent much time with him, and in the absence of any reciprocation on his part.
+ Naruto still loves Sakura despite his belief that she still loves Sasuke.

I realize I can't convince anyone who now doubts Kishimoto, the story's direction, or Sakura's characterization, but I honestly don't see it myself. I totally believe Kishimoto has NS and Sakura's development on hold because the story is focused elsewhere at the moment. It's not permanent. He's going to come back to it.

After all, Team 7 and its complex issues was one of the very first things he set up in the story. The complexity is based not just on the skill / acknowledgement / need to prove themselves rivalry that existed for each of them -- and very keenly between Naruto and Sasuke -- but the fact that Sakura is a component of the dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto's feelings for Sakura puts her right smack in the middle, and his feelings for her won't be resolved until his rivalry with Sasuke is resolved. I think it's super unrealistic to fear that Naruto will lose that rivalry -- and the girl he loves with it.

Just because the focus is currently on Hokage flashbacks doesn't mean that the war arc and everything that's happened in it has ceased to exist, right? The war is still there, waiting to regain focus. It's the same with Sakura's role in the story, and the resolution for NS. We just have to wait for it.

[StrikerTheNoble]

I'm sorry, but not everything needs to be like this all the time:




Also, analyzing the manga critically is not inherently negative. I forgot I wasn't even supposed to be in here anymore since just about every topic that isn't puking rainbows is 'negative'. This is the debate thread, not the happy go lucky thread.

Fine be that way. Let me know when your done being critical. Because I haven`t been her for long but I miss the day when I walked avay from the forum with a smile. If you need me I`ll be at the corner. Writting a comedy this time.

EDIT: Sorry if I sound like a douche its late here.

Edited by StrikerTheNoble, 30 March 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Beastbomb]

I'm sorry, but not everything needs to be like this all the time:




Also, analyzing the manga critically is not inherently negative. I forgot I wasn't even supposed to be in here anymore since just about every topic that isn't puking rainbows is 'negative'. This is the debate thread, not the happy go lucky thread.

lol, your funny *sarcasm*

So, by me trying to cheer everybody up, you think i'm puking rainbows? There are many people who come to this site just to have some reasurrence in there pairings ( I sure as hell did). Funny how the true enemy's of NS aren't the NH fandom, but our own.

Explains how everytime a NaruHina fan comes into this website, our fanbase just falls apart. Contradicting oursevles more than outhinking the NH fandom

Edited by Beastbomb, 30 March 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[Shadow1275]

Look, there isn't much backing Naru/Hina. 615 was blown out of proportion because Hinata hadn't had a moment since her fight with Neji. If you look closely at 615, Hinata's speech does not cheer Naruto up. It is the Nine tailed fox that does this. Plus, why would Kishimoto interrupt this supposed "Big" Naru/Hina moment by giving us a full panel of Sakura's horrified face. Sakura was not close to Neji, therefore why is she so affected. Plus after two confessions Naruto has not answered Hinata whereas he immediately declared his feelings for Sakura all the way back in part 1. Kishimoto has focused books on other characters before such as Jiraiya, Asuma's death and Shikamaru. Hinata only got 1 or 2 chapters. Unless Kishi decides for some crazy reason to squeeze in years' worth of development into one year there is no chance that this will happen. Now, as for 540, when Kishimoto was interviewed about Sakura's confession, he said that he was portraying an HONEST and stubborn woman. Sakura's character in my opinion is conflicted between whatever lingering feelings she has for Sasuke and her feelings for Naruto. In 540, sure she thinks of Sasuke but only after the man who brought her the love letter says" whoever your lover is, he must be a Great man!" She then thinks of Sasuke and she does not look happy with him. Not that Naru/Hina can't happen, but Naru/Saku easily still has the upper hand by far.

[StriderC]

lol, your funny *sarcasm*

So, by me trying to cheer everybody up, you think i'm puking rainbows? There are many people who come to this site just to have some reasurrence in there pairings ( I sure as hell did). Funny how the true enemy's of NS aren't the NH fandom, but our own.

No, I don't think this is what she means. She means that people should be able to discuss whatever they feel without getting attacked for it for whatever ridiculous reason. Cheering up an individual has absolutely nothing to do with discussion.

Edited by StriderC, 30 March 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[Dkey]

Good thing maybe for Sakura and NS but is that good writing ? So you put Sakura and NS on hold just because you have something planned later on down the road ? That's what a lot of us are complaining about, it's up to Kishi to prove me wrong but the impression I get is the next sequence of events involving Sakura and NS will come as unnatural and forced as the Hinata and NH and I regret that, I prefer gradual development than sudden and out of nowhere last moment development. Time will tell if I'm wrong but I can't see any other way around right now

Yes I think you can put something on hold just to come back and focus on that at the right time. We are still shown only an unfinished chapter. I mean look at the story now and how "nice" people are thinking of Tobirama. I find it very unproductive to pass judgement on an unfinished product but still hope it will somehow change.
It's an unfinished manga, this week you will be depressed because your favorite characters weren't even mentioned but you don't know what next week issue will be like.

It sucks that Sakura usually stays on the defensive/support role but isn't it her job? Didn't Kishi kinda made her the last line in the team? In part 1 while the others in the team rushed to face the enemy she stayed back. Of course that caused her to feel weaker than her team mates but she chose to learn healing which meant support others. I haven't seen her surpass Tsunade and this is what I want to see from her. But who knows maybe emotionally she will be a much bigger help for Naruto then before.

As for Hinata she deserved some attention, and chapter 615 along with the Path of Radiance one show that she achieved her goal that to hold Naruto's hand. And Neji didn't die just so Hinata can have her moment. We knew Neji was supposed to sacrifice himself for the main branch but he also succeeded in sacrificing for something he believed in.

[kirabook]

By telling everyone to cheer up, you're assuming everyone is down in the first place. That is the problem here.

Just because I'm being critical does not mean I'm sad, mad, anxious, worried, or anything else 'negative' you can imagine. I quite like this pairing obviously, but I can still take a step back and look at it from all angles without some emotion being attached to it. The most I feel now a days is disappointment and that will never go away. But being disappointed does not mean I'm not hopeful or that I give up.

There are 100's of other threads dedicated to all that is Holy about NS. They aren't very hard to find and users don't have to come to the DEBATE thread to find reassurance in a pairing they like. In a debate, you are going up against other peoples' ideals and discussing your own. There are normally many sides in a debate and it's unfair to try and restrict other sides of a debate because they're 'negative'.

I'm not sure where people got the idea that the debate thread should be the 'happiest' thread on the forum.

[Beastbomb]

No, I don't think this is what she means. She means that people should be able to discuss whatever they feel without getting attacked for it for whatever ridiculous reason. Cheering up an individual has absolutely nothing to do with discussion.

I haven't seen any attacking. Nobody's been attacked, but when someone begins going against your position, you feel like being attacked. I could tell just by the post where you mentioned PhenixElite's viewpoint that contradicts yours.