1876 replies to this topic

[Strangelove]

and Ron Paul is too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals...><

yet the base of the conservative movement is dying as in, it has become mostly from older white voters, and the Democrats have simply become too out of touch with they're base, they can't do anything right.

Edited by Strangelove, 06 March 2011 - 02:35 PM.

[catsi563]

what scares me about the conservative movment isnt its age, but that fact that its gotten crazier and crazier as time goes on.

the rise of militias, the birther movement, the anti muslim hysteria, the religous right, anti-abortion murders parading around under the cloak of religion.

its gotten to the point where a republican hero like Eisenhower and Reagan couldnt get elected nowadays because theyd be considered TOO Moderate.

mass calls for zero compromise combined with conservative purity tests for candidates just leave people with no one in the middle like myself to turn to who doesnt send independent voters shrieking to the left in abject terror of the prospect of one of these whack jobs getting into power.

[Hopestar]

When will the fed just say that America's broke?

[jason voorhees]

When will the fed just say that America's broke?

i think we should stop giveing all these other countreys money an focus on ourselfs for once. Things like this is one of the reasons i dislike how our country is run.

[Greed-Sama]

what scares me about the conservative movment isnt its age, but that fact that its gotten crazier and crazier as time goes on.

the rise of militias, the birther movement, the anti muslim hysteria, the religous right, anti-abortion murders parading around under the cloak of religion.

its gotten to the point where a republican hero like Eisenhower and Reagan couldnt get elected nowadays because theyd be considered TOO Moderate.

mass calls for zero compromise combined with conservative purity tests for candidates just leave people with no one in the middle like myself to turn to who doesnt send independent voters shrieking to the left in abject terror of the prospect of one of these whack jobs getting into power.

It would be interesting to see a majority shift from the two sides to an independent party.

[ciardha]

Reagan couldnt get elected nowadays because theyd be considered TOO Moderate.

Not Reagan, all this stuff come straight from him and his branch of the Republican party. Reagan and his administration said this same stuff back in the 80's, on top of which they were casually throwing around "jokes" that weren't really jokes about Nuking this or that country- it was a horrific time to live through. Nixon, as paranoid and bad as he was had more "liberal" policies than Obama.

Reagan and Bush 1 used lots of race baiting- with no media criticism either, even form the so called "liberal media" like the New York Times, etc... they worshiped Reagan then and now, because in the late 1970's the major news media outlets were bought by big corporations- GE, etc... and Reagan slashed aid to poor by 80% and gave all kinds of corporate welfare and cut taxes to the rich to the level that triggered the Great Depression- causing the deficit to sky rocket, and the economy to crash. Reagan was rabidly antiabortion, and tried to crush unions, gutted the power of government offices designed to keep corporations from polluting our air and water, keeping our food free of diseases, etc...

Clinton reversed this for the 8 years he was in office, but Bush II came in and brought all those destructive Reagan practices back. But now the corporate interests have a majority hold over the Democratic party too, so no one is reigning in the the insanity except for the rank and file Americans, especially the unions. (Unions were the start of the democracy movements in Poland, Tunsia and Egypt too. When unions are strong Democracy thrives and equality for all grows)

[Greed-Sama]

(Unions were the start of the democracy movements in Poland, Tunsia and Egypt too. When unions are strong Democracy thrives and equality for all grows)

Economics 101. When equality grows efficiency suffers, and the incentive to work decreases causing the economic "pie" to shrink. It's a balance. There will never be a utopian society where some aren't living in poverty.

Also on another note: Democracy is dangerous in the hands of the uneducated public, which America certainly has enough of.

Edited by TheOmegaMan, 07 March 2011 - 12:49 AM.

[ciardha]

Economics 101. When equality grows efficiency suffers, and the incentive to work decreases causing the economic "pie" to shrink.

Union strength creates more prosperity for all. America was at it's strongest economically when our labor unions were at their strongest. The more big corporate interests and the wealthy control of the economy the more it shrinks- the larger the deficit, higher unemployment, higher crime rates, etc...

http://thesocietypag...ome-divergence/
http://thesocietypag...h-distribution/
http://thesocietypag...l-income-gains/

The French Revolution should have had a lasting lesson that ended the practice of crushing the lower economic classes to benefit the wealthy, but it didn't and the lesson has to be repeated over and over in some fashion. The Democrats of FDR's generation wisely had paid attention to history and knew what to do to create prosperity for all, and that quickly turned us into the world superpower. You strengthen your weakest links not crush them. Crushing them just breaks the chain and you are lost.

Edited by ciardha, 07 March 2011 - 01:28 AM.

[catsi563]

yeha I agree. Unions improve economic efficency they dont decrease it because then people have a direct say in the success of the company and thus have an incentive for that success.

Without unions you have no incentive to succeed. You know that you can be replaced at any moment. You cna be fired for no more reason then your boss has a bad hair day and decides you're gonna pay for it. So you go through the motions to not draw attention to yourself hoping youll be missed. Morale suffers and productivity suffers accordingly. People with no job security dont work as hard as those who do have it. Those who do have it tend to want to keep it and work harder to insure it. Unions also provide higher standards of work because this directly affects the bargaining process.

Its kind of hard to bargain for better pay and benefits when your members are half@ssing it. Thus Unions push for better quality of work from the membership.

Ive worked in California which is a right to work state and it was as much fun as a root canal, and provided no incentive for me to succeed. In spite of that I worked hard and in the end I still got laid off not once but twice.

[Strangelove]

look at the major economic superpowers of today. China and India

No Unions, No Minimum Wage Laws, No taxes, and jobs are like Sweat Shops. We have only been able to sustain our standard of living because the dollar is the World's Reserve currency. If it wasn't, then liberals can kiss the unions goodbye, and conservatives can kiss the American Empire goodbye as well. For major overhauls will have to be made, in foreign policy and in economic policy. It will have to decide whether we want guns or butter.

[Cloud]

i think we should stop giveing all these other countreys money an focus on ourselfs for once. Things like this is one of the reasons i dislike how our country is run.

Really? With the USA part of the UN? Then you'd guys would be called capitalist "pigs" for not helping others. Even if you would love to pull out and help yourselves only, the world would not stand for it. Not when there are others worse off.

[ciardha]

Actually there are unions in India and China. But in China they have little real power because they are mostly unions in name only- but there are indications this is changing as a backlash is growing against the income disparity between business owners and workers, and the middle class jobs do have some union benefits- they actually get more vacation days per year than even unionized American workers do and it's mandatory for employers to give them those vacation days. In India unions have a long history and have been at the forefront of the various social democracy movements at least since the independence actions against the British Empire. It's just the lowest wage jobs don't have unions (few do in the US nowadays for that matter). There's been a strong unionizing movement amongst the jobs that are driving the economic boom in India- the call service industry, etc...

This article gives a good picture of what big corporate and their backers are pushing for- although the writer misses that the majority of the Democratic party is also on this bandwagon:

http://www.boomantri...3/3/132515/5187

[Strangelove]

Really? With the USA part of the UN? Then you'd guys would be called capitalist "pigs" for not helping others. Even if you would love to pull out and help yourselves only, the world would not stand for it. Not when there are others worse off.

The UN is one of the most corrupted organizations on the planet, beaten only by the IMF and the Federal Reserve. The peacekeeping methods have failed in intervening in the Rwanda Genocide, it has failed in providing aid in the Second Congo War, it has failed in the Srebrenica massacre, failed to deliver food to Somalia, failed to implement provisions in the Israeli-Palestinian war, continues to fail in the Darfur conflict, It has also been accused of child rape, sexual abuses, and the solicitation of prostitutes. The Oil for Food program

It has divided the world instead of uniting it, ignoring the plights of the third world, and focusing only on they're own interests. The world can do a whole better without an United Nations.

Edited by Strangelove, 09 March 2011 - 12:06 AM.

[Insurrection]

Really? With the USA part of the UN? Then you'd guys would be called capitalist "pigs" for not helping others. Even if you would love to pull out and help yourselves only, the world would not stand for it. Not when there are others worse off.

The Superpower never wins.

@Strange Libya was on the freakin' Human rights council, don't forget that.

Edited by Insurrection, 08 March 2011 - 06:12 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

First Keith Olbermann, now another one may soon bite the dust~

Glenn Beck

And as I've said before, just keep shooting yourselves in the foot Republicans. First targets were the every-day working-class citizens rights, now it's the rights of young people and college students:

http://news.yahoo.co...e-voting-rights

[Chivalrysae]

Really? With the USA part of the UN? Then you'd guys would be called capitalist "pigs" for not helping others. Even if you would love to pull out and help yourselves only, the world would not stand for it. Not when there are others worse off.

Hope no one takes offense, but these are my thoughts...

I don't think it's because people don't want to help, but we are discussing fiscal responsibility and not passing or increasing the financial burdens we currently have to future generations. The US is operating at extreme defecits. I do a lot of volunteer work and I love helping people when I am able to, but would I take out a $10,000 loan and donate it to charity? No. It's fiscally irresponsible. I do think we spend too much money in foreign affairs, but that doesn't mean we should cut off everything. If our economy crashes, guess what? We lose along with the nations we were trying to help out. Our debt load is immense, and almost half of our debt is owned by China, Japan, and I think Taiwan. Domestically we are having to make very difficult spending cuts and most local governents are in the red as well. I understand others are worse off, but we are running on a lot of borrowed money as a government which will either come back to bite us or our children. And most Americans are not willing to make the sacrifices to lower their quality of life. I know I personally would not give up a lot of the luxuries I have, but I do live within my means...which is what I'm hoping the US will be able to do at some point in time. I try to give when I'm able to, and I'm willing to make sacrifices for the charities that mean the most to me, I just wouldn't sell my house to do it.

And I'm not a big fan of the UN as far as their ability to enforce their beliefs. The US is much more proactive than the member nations and as a result we end up shouldering a larger financial burden. Although they are all with good intentions, it still does not make it fiscally responsible, especially the wars. Do I have a better solution? I'll be the first to tell you I don't. I just don't like the feeling that the US is the main nation policing the world when other nations are not willing to step up equally.

[Insurrection]

Trying to Recall?

It ain't easy

Turns out unlike other states, you don't need a particular reason in Wisconsin to recall an elected official.

Wisconsin wants Compromise

Walker appears ready to.

Edited by Insurrection, 08 March 2011 - 11:52 PM.

[Strangelove]

The Superpower never wins.

@Strange Libya was on the freakin' Human rights council, don't forget that.

That was the biggest irony.

[Nate River]

That was the biggest irony.

Irony?!

It should be an international embarrassment. Some of the world's most oppressive regimes either currently are or have been on that panel.

Just so you know, not only is Libya sitting on that panel; it's headed the damn thing before.

[Insurrection]

Also, Saudi Arabia and Cuba are still members. Pakistan's term just expired. China is also on it as one of the Five permanent members.

Edited by Insurrection, 09 March 2011 - 03:12 AM.