4869 replies to this topic

[Verilance]

The funny thing is I don't know where he got the idea that that was the theme of the manga.

To me the theme is and always has been "True strength comes only from protecting those you love (care about etc.)"

This is the major difference between those on the "good" side and the "bad guys"

Edited by Verilance, 01 May 2009 - 08:55 PM.

[RyrineaHaruno]

The funny thing is I don't know where he got the idea that that was the theme of the manga.

To me the theme is and always has been "True strength comes only from protecting those you love (care about etc.)"

This is the major difference between those on the "good" side and the "bad guys"

That what I say too it just weird where they got that idea.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 02 May 2009 - 08:07 PM.

[Derock]

I agree with you Derock oh and nice avatar

Thanks! I guess I have more love for the King of Fighters series ever since I bought XI for PS2.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Thanks! I guess I have more love for the King of Fighters series ever since I bought XI for PS2.

Your welcome

[Jenskott]

Personally, I viewed that there is something wrong with the fans. There are NO objective point of view of this issue. Common sense is exactly right there because the author had wrote it down and yet many fans to...

hmm.. what's the word?

Misinterpret.

Thank God, last week I had to write an essay about the Bible's misinterpretation because of the old translations' mistakes of understanding the context meanings, symbols, subtle messages, etc. from the Bible. (Got an A on that paper.)

Many NaruHina fans misinterpret alot of scenes. Example is that conversation in Chapter 98 way back. Everyone in that side of fandom thinking Naruto and Hinata "are meant to be" but in actually, they lost the message:

Naruto: "I like people like you." (actual meaning: Naruto enjoys people who believe in themselves and help a person out when they are down) I guess that's how I interpret his quote to Hinata.

Very true. So many fans only see what they want seeing what it's really frustrating.

For example, I saw someone claiming the Promise of a Lifetime scene was a moment NaruSaSU. According that person, when Naruto told: "I understand that pain you feel", he meant he also loved Sasuke. And when Sakura thought Naruto was the only understood her, she was thinking he understood her because he also loved Sasuke.

Come ON.

Oh just because a guy rejects a girl it makes him look like a kitten . I am sorry but that is phial on so many levels that it not even funny.

They already think Naruto is idiot/blind/clueless/gay because he hadn't noticed how ethereally beautiful, noble, good and buxom Hinata-sama is, and instead of wooing her, he falls in for kitteny, meanie, violent, unfriendable, fangirlish, chestless Sakura (The Pink Foe). In fact, some fans hate him for not loving her.

If/when he turns Hinata down, there shall be countless "Naruto doesn't deserve Hinata! He's unworthy of her!" comments. It'll be hilarious.

The funny thing is I don't know where he got the idea that that was the theme of the manga.

Don't ask me. I have heard a lot of NaruHina fans claiming the Shippuden theme is "people acepting other people". Needless to say, they never show or cite their sources.

I agree with you. If you ask me, the main themes in Naruto are "True strength comes only from protecting those you love", "Never give up", "The newer generation always surpasses the older one"... I can't figure out where that "people acepting people" statement came from, nor how that sentence implies ROMANTIC aceptance. "People acepting other people" and "people returning other people's love" isn't the same thing at all.

That what I say too it just wired where they got that idea.

Good question, pal. Very good question.

Thanks! I guess I have more love for the King of Fighters series ever since I bought XI for PS2.

It's scientifically impossible going wrong with a Mai Shiranui avatar.

[Nate River]

Just gonna come in and share my two cents:

NaruHina WILL happen. Looking at it from an objective point of view (pay no heed to my sig <______<), I don't see how it can't.

You shouldn't waste your time claiming objectivity. Almost everyone on your side will assume your are because they agree with you and almost everybody on the opposing side will not believe you because they don't agree with you.

Moreover, isn't it awfully convenient that the "objective" argument favors your pairing? It's actually quite amazing that virtually every fan that holds up their analysis as the objective one reaches the conclusion that the evidence points to their pairing (and this is for ALL camps).

But then...maybe it's just me.

Personally, I don't care whether opposing fans think I'm objective.

1. It will make Sakura look like a complete b*tch. Up to this point, she's never shown any true romantic interest in Naruto, AND she all but knows Hinata loves Naruto. To go after Naruto now would make he look awful and OOC, because the connection between Naruto and Sakura is more brother/sister than anything else.

So you say, but I'll bite. I've seen many fans claim this about their relationship, but not very many offer distinct proof that this is so. What, specifically, have they done that is something a brother and sister would do and romantic interests wouldn't? I can't imagine myself being as happy as Naruto was when Sakura was about to feed him and as disappointed as he was when Sai interrupted if my sister were trying to do that. I can, however, imagine being both of those if it were my wife. Really, though I don't like spending much time with this one because it's an argument of convenience because you can always say whatever development it gets is just brother sister. Explain away the development and get what you want. So, unless you can offer distinct that this is Kishi's intent or show something that clearly distinguishes what they got as brother and sister, then I'm not buying it.

I don't see how this proves a thing. For one it makes an blatant assumption on how Sakura can be portrayed. If she has liked him for sometime it makes her look timid and foolish for waiting until now to act on it, but not a b*tch. Does the fact that Hinata confessed mean she has to sit back do nothing regardless of what Naruto thinks of it? Would you for that matter? Does Hinata confession somehow mean she now has an exclusive claim on Naruto no one else is allowed to confront him about their feelings? That's what this argument sounds like.

If would be one thing if Naruto had reciprocated and Sakura sought to break them up, but he hasn't and she isn't.

Moreover, I don't recall Ino's crush stopping her pursuit of Sasuke. Did not Ino, and several others, like him first? So where were the fans that said Sakura should give up her pursuit because of that reason?

2. If Naruto rejects her after all that, it not only makes him look like a kitten and go against his character, but also goes against the main theme of "people accepting other people". It just doesn't work.

Your the first person I've see mention that theme. Other have dealt with that argument so I won't spend any time with it.

Second, since when is acceptance predicated on Naruto returning her romantic feelings? Your argument suggests that you think that Sakura has accepted Naruto without her ever reciprocating on his feelings. It is possible to accept Hinata for who she is and her growth without falling in love with her. The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.

And Naruto looking bad? Really? Sorry, Sasuke looks like your a kitten then (twice over actually) Sakura, you too (also twice over). And don't forget Kakashi.

So, in other words, if someone confesses their feelings to a person, the recipient is obligated to return those feelings. Otherwise, they're a total jerk. That's basically what this argument says. I would think the worse thing for Naruto to do is say he returns them without actually feeling that way.

I can't imagine anyone wanting this to be the reason Kishimoto pairs them off.

3. Why go through all the effort what with the confession and everything only to completely crap all over it? I doubt Kishi would put that in there unless something was to come of it.

4. Let's be honest here, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that NaruHina is the most popular non-yaoi pairing in Naruto. Kishi would be alienating a lot of fans if he went with NaruSaku now.

On 3, others have dealt with it sufficiently, and I have nothing to add.

On 4, this would be something that would cause me to quit reading the manga. I quit reading well-written fanfiction when authors do this. Your argument is basically saying he should pander to popular opinion. Not only are NaruSasu and KakaIru more popular, but this speaks poorly of the fans and very poorly of Kishimoto that the overall opinion and direction of the manga tied to people getting their way on pairings.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Very true. So many fans only see what they want seeing what it's really frustrating.

For example, I saw someone claiming the Promise of a Lifetime scene was a moment NaruSaSU. According that person, when Naruto told: "I understand that pain you feel", he meant he also loved Sasuke. And when Sakura thought Naruto was the only understood her, she was thinking he understood her because he also loved Sasuke.

Come ON.

Um they really said that I would have love to see that lol. How come when two guys are friends they are automatically proclaimed to be lovers in the series by Yoai fans. I really hate that they twist scenes like that too it boggls my mind how they do these scenes and warp and twist them so much into their convent shipping. That is compelt BS because it the Manga I think that him being a little homophobic is there but to Yoai fans that BS. One girl said that Kin( Sound Ninja ) was a lesbian Um I missed that part.

They already think Naruto is idiot/blind/clueless/gay because he hadn't noticed how ethereally beautiful, noble, good and buxom Hinata-sama is, and instead of wooing her, he falls in for kitteny, meanie, violent, unfriendable, fangirlish, chestless Sakura (The Pink Foe). In fact, some fans hate him for not loving her.

If/when he turns Hinata down, there shall be countless "Naruto doesn't deserve Hinata! He's unworthy of her!" comments. It'll be hilarious.

It will be hilarious I will be laughing my butt off really I will lol

Don't ask me. I have heard a lot of NaruHina fans claiming the Shippuden theme is "people acepting other people". Needless to say, they never show or cite their sources.

I agree with you. If you ask me, the main themes in Naruto are "True strength comes only from protecting those you love", "Never give up", "The newer generation always surpasses the older one"... I can't figure out where that "people acepting people" statement came from, nor how that sentence implies ROMANTIC aceptance. "People acepting other people" and "people returning other people's love" isn't the same thing at all.

I have no clue how they got that idea from were in the world I think that Hinata them yeah, but not the team of the Manga

Good question, pal. Very good question.

Thanks you

It's scientifically impossible going wrong with a Mai Shiranui avatar.

Quoted for the truth

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 02 May 2009 - 08:25 PM.

[catsi563]

In a true irony they got the idea that acceptance is a major theme from Naruto and Sakura themselves.

remember the bench scene? In it Sakura tells Sasuke(naruto in disguise) that all she wants is for him to accept her. Naruto then says this

I feel like I finally understand why i like her.

Chapter 3

That acceptance that naruto is seeking and Sakura is seeking is a strong theme in the manga but not a foundational theme such as great strength through protection etc.

it is however a key moment when Narutos shallow childish crush becomes a true love for Sakura.

And unfortunately its when Sakuras crush becomes a true love for Sasuke even though it is based on a misunderstanding

[RyrineaHaruno]

In a true irony they got the idea that acceptance is a major theme from Naruto and Sakura themselves.

remember the bench scene? In it Sakura tells Sasuke(naruto in disguise) that all she wants is for him to accept her. Naruto then says this

I feel like I finally understand why i like her.

Chapter 3

That acceptance that naruto is seeking and Sakura is seeking is a strong theme in the manga but not a foundational theme such as great strength through protection etc.

it is however a key moment when Narutos shallow childish crush becomes a true love for Sakura.

And unfortunately its when Sakuras crush becomes a true love for Sasuke even though it is based on a misunderstanding

Thank you Catsi for that Information

[Jenskott]

So you say, but I'll bite. I've seen many fans claim this about their relationship, but not very many offer distinct proof that this is so. What, specifically, have they done that is something a brother and sister would do and romantic interests wouldn't? I can't imagine myself being as happy as Naruto was when Sakura was about to feed him and as disappointed as he was when Sai interrupted if my sister were trying to do that. I can, however, imagine being both of those if it were my wife. Really, though I don't like spending much time with this one because it's an argument of convenience because you can always say whatever development it gets is just brother sister. Explain away the development and get what you want. So, unless you can offer distinct that this is Kishi's intent or show something that clearly distinguishes what they got as brother and sister, then I'm not buying it.

Personally I think that's another argument someone came up with, and anti-NaruSaku fans spread because it sounded very convenient, instead of wondering if it was a solid argument.

It's right like you tell, Nate. If he regarded Sakura like a sister, why was he so happy and even blushed when she told she'd feed him? Why was he so upset, angry and disappointed when Sai interrupted them and later he was shouting him for not noticing the situation? And why Sakura seemed so eager and cheerful herself, and so angrily disappointed when Sai ruined it? She was clenching her fist when he got in the way.

And in Japanese culture, feeding each other is an act of intimacy, not merely of friendship.

You can try convincing me Naruto and Sakura are only friends. But you can't convince me their relationship is brotherly/sisterly. I have a sister and I can assure you I don't behave like Naruto, and she doesn't behave like Sakura.

Moreover, Naruto/Sakura relationship isn't like the CONFIRMED brotherly relationships in this manga: Naruto/Sasuke or Sasuke/Itachi.

Your the first person I've see mention that theme. Other have dealt with that argument so I won't spend any time with it.

I have seen several fans telling that, talking about that so-called theme. Again, nobody ever cites their sources. It sounds fandom myth to me.

On 4, this would be something that would cause me to quit reading the manga. I quit reading well-written fanfiction when authors do this. Your argument is basically saying he should pander to popular opinion. Not only are NaruSasu and KakaIru more popular, but this speaks poorly of the fans and very poorly of Kishimoto that the overall opinion and direction of the manga tied to people getting their way on pairings.

That's right. Fandom shouldn't dictate what route follows a series. That's the same overblown sense of self-entitlement spawned enraged legions of Zutarians when Avatar cartoon-makers did right what they had intended all along.

Um they really said that I would have love to see that lol. How come when two guys are friends they are automatically proclaimed to be lovers in the series by Yoai fans. I really hate that they twist scenes like that too it boggls my mind how they do these scenes and warp and twist them so much into their convent shipping. That is compelt BS because it the Manga I think that him being a little homophobic is there but to Yoai fans that BS. One girl said that Kin( Sound Ninja ) was a lesbian Um I missed that part.

Do you remember Mizura's NaruSaku Manifesto ? Look in the third page of the comments section , and looks for a commenter with the next nickname: Sasuke ksama.

I'm sick about that, too. I wouldn't call Naruto homophobic, though. He's heterosexual and he doesn't like when men hit on him, and he feels uncomfortable when they obsess over his genitals. He's never expressed disliking, hate or fear towards homosexuals.

It will be hilarious I will be laughing my butt off really I will lol

It'd be slightly outrageous seeing them bashing Naruto cause that, but I'm used to see character-bashing founded on idiotic reasons or pitiful excuses. And they're already mistreating Naruto the whole time. At least they'll let Naruto alone.

In a true irony they got the idea that acceptance is a major theme from Naruto and Sakura themselves.

remember the bench scene? In it Sakura tells Sasuke(naruto in disguise) that all she wants is for him to accept her. Naruto then says this

I feel like I finally understand why i like her.

Chapter 3

That acceptance that naruto is seeking and Sakura is seeking is a strong theme in the manga but not a foundational theme such as great strength through protection etc.

it is however a key moment when Narutos shallow childish crush becomes a true love for Sakura.

And unfortunately its when Sakuras crush becomes a true love for Sasuke even though it is based on a misunderstanding

I agree, Catsi. It's ironic they talk about that so-called theme and use it like a reason for proving NaruHina's official status when Naruto has been seeking acceptance from Sakura.

[Sora no Kitsune]

Personally I think that's another argument someone came up with, and anti-NaruSaku fans spread because it sounded very convenient, instead of wondering if it was a solid argument.

It's right like you tell, Nate. If he regarded Sakura like a sister, why was he so happy and even blushed when she told she'd feed him? Why was he so upset, angry and disappointed when Sai interrupted them and later he was shouting him for not noticing the situation? And why Sakura seemed so eager and cheerful herself, and so angrily disappointed when Sai ruined it? She was clenching her fist when he got in the way.

And in Japanese culture, feeding each other is an act of intimacy, not merely of friendship.

You can try convincing me Naruto and Sakura are only friends. But you can't convince me their relationship is brotherly/sisterly. I have a sister and I can assure you I don't behave like Naruto, and she doesn't behave like Sakura.

Moreover, Naruto/Sakura relationship isn't like the CONFIRMED brotherly relationships in this manga: Naruto/Sasuke or Sasuke/Itachi.



I have seen several fans telling that, talking about that so-called theme. Again, nobody ever cites their sources. It sounds fandom myth to me.



That's right. Fandom shouldn't dictate what route follows a series. That's the same overblown sense of self-entitlement spawned enraged legions of Zutarians when Avatar cartoon-makers did right what they had intended all along.



Do you remember Mizura's NaruSaku Manifesto ? Look in the third page of the comments section , and looks for a commenter with the next nickname: Sasuke ksama.

I'm sick about that, too. I wouldn't call Naruto homophobic, though. He's heterosexual and he doesn't like when men hit on him, and he feels uncomfortable when they obsess over his genitals. He's never expressed disliking, hate or fear towards homosexuals.



It'd be slightly outrageous seeing them bashing Naruto cause that, but I'm used to see character-bashing founded on idiotic reasons or pitiful excuses. And they're already mistreating Naruto the whole time. At least they'll let Naruto alone.



I agree, Catsi. It's ironic they talk about that so-called theme and use it like a reason for proving NaruHina's official status when Naruto has been seeking acceptance from Sakura.

Another epic reply by Jenskott!!

[Jenskott]

Another epic reply by Jenskott!

Thank you, but I'm not so good debater.

Anyway, I'm wondering... should NaruSaku become the official pairing in this manga, do you think the fans claim it'd be OOC because their relationship is brotherly/sisterly will admit the hints we insisted upon were really hints? Or will they still claim it came out of nowhere and it had no romantic development?

All in all, they're SO convinced Sakura still loves Sasuke, Naruto sees Sakura like a sister...

And you still find Zutarans screaming Kataang never had romantic development whatsoever in Avatar...

[RyrineaHaruno]

Thank you, but I'm not so good debater.

Anyway, I'm wondering... should NaruSaku become the official pairing in this manga, do you think the fans claim it'd be OOC because their relationship is brotherly/sisterly will admit the hints we insisted upon were really hints? Or will they still claim it came out of nowhere and it had no romantic development?

All in all, they're SO convinced Sakura still loves Sasuke, Naruto sees Sakura like a sister...

And you still find Zutarans screaming Kataang never had romantic development whatsoever in Avatar...

I think both lol because it will because they can't expect that Yoai and Shouji( sorry if spelled the Genre wrong lol I not in to the Romance stuff like Action lol even thought I a a girl more of a tomboy myself) parings don't belong in Shouen Manga. I also like Kishmoto model Sakura after his wife :teehee: and he thinks of himself as Naruto then I would image them being a couple at the end of the show. He likes Strong woman character as well so why would he place Hinata who has not that much of a character

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 07 May 2009 - 04:19 AM.

[Jenskott]

I also like Kishmoto model Sakura after his wife and he thinks of himself as Naruto then I would image them being a couple at the end of the show. He likes Strong woman character as well so why would he place Hinata who has not that much of a character

Seriously? If that's true, it'd be an interesting tidbit. Do you know what Jerry Siegle -the Superman's creator- modeled Lois Lane after the woman eventually he got married to?

By they, I've just seen in YouTube someone claiming Kishimoto told in an interview there would be no pairings in Naruto.

...

Well, it's a beginning. Before you saw fans swearing Kishimoto had told in an interview the pairing coincidentally they shipped would become canon. Now you see fans averring he told in an interview he would do no pairings.

Is that an improvement or not? And why are fans so obsessed with romance in this action/fighting-themed comic-book than they come up with imaginary interviews for proving their position or disproving the position of other shippers?

[RyrineaHaruno]

Seriously? If that's true, it'd be an interesting tidbit. Do you know what Jerry Siegle -the Superman's creator- modeled Lois Lane after the woman eventually he got married to?

By they, I've just seen in YouTube someone claiming Kishimoto told in an interview there would be no pairings in Naruto.

...

Well, it's a beginning. Before you saw fans swearing Kishimoto had told in an interview the pairing coincidentally they shipped would become canon. Now you see fans averring he told in an interview he would do no pairings.

Is that an improvement or not? And why are fans so obsessed with romance in this action/fighting-themed comic-book than they come up with imaginary interviews for proving their position or disproving the position of other shippers?

yeah I know I read it some where in the regular raw books in the datebook but I could have been wrong in the translation because I am new at Japaneses my self. I also am not totally sure but I know I read it some were and saw that the character for Naruto kid hair is pink lol but I might just be a being at translation but that is what I think it said anyway. Yes I did know the Lois lane was model after the girl he got married too.

[Cloud]

yeah I know I read it some where in the regular raw books in the datebook but I could have been wrong in the translation because I am new at Japaneses my self. I also am not totally sure but I know I read it some were and saw that the character for Naruto kid hair is pink lol but I might just be a being at translation but that is what I think it said anyway. Yes I did know the Lois lane was model after the girl he got married too.

What?

All of a sudden Naruto has kids? :O

Edited by Cloud, 09 May 2009 - 08:56 PM.

[RyrineaHaruno]

What?

I read somewhere that Naruto's kid hair was pink for his character but I could be wrong, and that was just someone making up stuff so it might be nonexistence part in the design and be apart of this someones imagination lol.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 09 May 2009 - 09:00 PM.

[Kyuudaime]

What?

All of a sudden Naruto has kids? :O

Yea, about 20, didn't you notice? :cookie:

[RyrineaHaruno]

Yea, about 20, didn't you notice? :cookie:

Yeah it his imagination lol because I just looked at the raw and doesn't say any of that lol. I need to stop believing things I hear on the internet really I am so gullible lol. But I know that Sakura was model after his wife thought I need to find that website again.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 09 May 2009 - 09:13 PM.

[Kori]

Oh just because a guy rejects a girl it makes him look like a kitten . I am sorry but that is phial on so many levels that it not even funny.

then why are you laughing if it isn't funny? AHHHHH gotcha now!!!