1649 replies to this topic

[oksus]

Well one things for sure, Kishimoto sure hates being straightforward U_U

[Destiny]

So... am I the only one that seems to think that this chapter has a whole lot of grey area? It didn't confirm nor deny SS or NS... it didn't bury a ship into the ground... Kakashi's words were vague... why? Because this is what Kishi does. He doesn't reveal the ship. Whether it's because he wants to focus on the actual plot or it be because he wants to keep people interested in the ships, he just doesn't out right say who the final relationships are. So, again, this doesn't do anything for anyone. The only time I become interested in ships is when the actual people in relationships say something...and say something blunt. Like Naruto telling his dad Sakura was his girlfriend.

[LadyGT]

Tumblr is a mess right now. I was going through the ASS tag and all I got was SS fans insulting NS's reading comprehension, mentioning how the raw was pro-SS, and that practically everyone except NS fans believe Sakura's still in love with Sasuke.

 

Honestly, these shippers are pissing me off. They're rubbing something in our faces that's factually wrong and acting like we're idiots. If there's anything I hate, it's when the rival shippings act like we're the stupidest fans on earth and are getting smug over something they shouldn't be full of themselves over. 675 killed SS or at the very least, put it on it's deathbed.

 

It makes me mad. Not just because they're wrong, but because they should show more respect. It's sad how divided and bickering the Naruto fandom has become just because of shipping wars. It's hard to even get along with rival shippers about regular Naruto stuff because our OTP preferences always get in the way.

 

Just ignore them, They only see what they want to see, we know that that's not right.

[Gojira]

Lol, check the meaning of hypocritical but whatever.
You're ignoring the recent chapter where it's proven that she isn't in love with Sasuke.
So you're staying it's a step back to her character because she thought of Sasuke's name instead of Naruto right? This contradicts your previous statement, you agreed that Sakura is not obliged to fall in love with Naruto. Then why are you here saying that it's a step back for her character because she thought of Sasuke instead of Naruto? It doesn't make sense.

Not to mention, with that kind of an explanation, I was right. You ARE determining character development by who that character is in love with. If you weren't, you wouldn't be saying that it's step back for her character to think of Sasuke.

Also, I would like to add that, that scene was to show that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are negative. That was the whole point of the scene. And all the previous posts other people replied to you which you ignored basically said the same thing.
You're taking Kishi's interview too much at face value. You should base your arguments based on actual manga panels.
Explain number 1. And you have very limited options when there are many ways to take that scene.

1. I know what hypocritical means and I used it correctly

2. Except I shouldn't have to tell you this recent chapter came after 540.

3. You didn't answer the question which is the main problem with why the ending to this argument keeps getting delayed but whatever. Its a step back for her character because she's favoring a childhood crush over someone she supposedly loves just as much.

4. I explained it pretty well, do please elaborate on the multiple other ways to take the scene.

[咲耶姫]

 

Just ignore them, They only see what they want to see, we know that that's not right.

There is not only that to me. You see, I know what the raw say and rationally I know that there is no ambiguity in his words, that SS is dead, but seeing everywhere people saying otherwise and even on professionnal translations make me wonder if there wasn't an ambiguity to see in Kakashi's words and that ambiguity would mean that indeed Sakura's love for Sasuke is on another level from what they were before (on a higher level). Because really VIZ gives the impression that her love is super deeper from what it was before with their "on a totally different level", I really don't know how some of you do to not be bothered by this false translation, it's a pure expression used to say it is better, like a sportive being on a totally different level compared to another one, meaning that the first is well better than the second. This VIZ translation really confused me. Not because of my personnal translation, because I'm sure of it, but because of the way the professional translators interpreted this passage to transformed it into a SS passage.

Edited by 咲耶姫, 13 May 2014 - 02:46 AM.

[Gojira]

Because Kushina doesn't look like Hinata at all there 

You're forgetting NH favors non-canon evidence

[FrenchMyToast]

There is not only that to me. You see, I know what the raw say and rationally I know that there is no ambiguity in his words, that SS is dead, but seeing everywhere people saying otherwise and even on professionnal translations make me wonder if there wasn't an ambiguity to see in Kakashi's words and that ambiguity would mean that indeed Sakura's love for Sasuke is on another level from what they were before (on a higher level). Because really VIZ gives the impression that her love is super deeper from what it was before with their "on a totally different level", I really don't know how some of you do to not be bothered by this false translation, it's a pure expression used to say it is better, like a sportive being on a totally different level compared to another one, meaning that the first is well better than the second. This VIZ translation really confused me. Not because of my personnal translation, because I'm sure of it, but because of the way the professional translators interpreted this passage to transformed it into a SS passage.

 

If I were you, I wouldn't focus on Viz. They have shown time and time again where they stand when it comes to pairings. 

[Gojira]

There is not only that to me. You see, I know what the raw say and rationally I know that there is no ambiguity in his words, that SS is dead, but seeing everywhere people saying otherwise and even on professionnal translations make me wonder if there wasn't an ambiguity to see in Kakashi's words and that ambiguity would mean that indeed Sakura's love for Sasuke is on another level from what they were before (on a higher level). Because really VIZ gives the impression that her love is super deeper from what it was before with their "on a totally different level", I really don't know how some of you do to not be bothered by this false translation, it's a pure expression used to say it is better, like a sportive being on a totally different level compared to another one, meaning that the first is well better than the second. This VIZ translation really confused me. Not because of my personnal translation, because I'm sure of it, but because of the way the professional translators interpreted this passage to transformed it into a SS passage.

I would only really be bothered by it, if the translator personally knew Kishi or something.

[ramenanmitsu]

1. I know what hypocritical means and I used it correctly
2. Except I shouldn't have to tell you this recent chapter came after 540.
3. You didn't answer the question which is the main problem with why the ending to this argument keeps getting delayed but whatever. Its a step back for her character because she's favoring a childhood crush over someone she supposedly loves just as much.
4. I explained it pretty well, do please elaborate on the multiple other ways to take the scene.

No, you didn't but I'm tired of your insults when you can't explain anything. And stop shifting the blame on me. Now let's move on.

Your statement of Sakura favoring Sasuke doesn't make sense to me. You're using chapter 540 as your main argument to prove it. Chapter 540 showed us two things. 1. She believes she is in love with Sasuke, 2. She feels negatively towards him. Where in this does it look like she is favoring Sasuke? Explain to me.

Not to mention, Kakashi himself said that Sakura is not in love with Sasuke anymore. In the manga timeline this is two or three days after that love-letter nin confrontation. Chapter 675 shows that she wasn't in love with Sasuke at the time of the confrontation. That is why I'm bringing it up.

I repeat, that chapter showed us that 1.) she BELIEVES she is in love with Sasuke (which she isn't) and 2.) she has negative feelings towards Sasuke.

So tell me, why are you so hellbent in the idea that Sakura favors Sasuke over Naruto? I just don't see it. (No offense, but please put my above arguments in consideration before you reply with the same one-phrase "Sakura favors Sasuke" , if my above argument is wrong point it out how and why it's wrong. Thank you)

Because, sorry, I don't really see the reasonings in your post. And the others have also said your interpretation of chapter 540 doesn't make sense. Why don't you also reply to the others who quoted you if you're still confused, maybe THEY could help clear things up for you.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 13 May 2014 - 03:40 AM.

[LadyGT]

There is not only that to me. You see, I know what the raw say and rationally I know that there is no ambiguity in his words, that SS is dead, but seeing everywhere people saying otherwise and even on professionnal translations make me wonder if there wasn't an ambiguity to see in Kakashi's words and that ambiguity would mean that indeed Sakura's love for Sasuke is on another level from what they were before (on a higher level). Because really VIZ gives the impression that her love is super deeper from what it was before with their "on a totally different level", I really don't know how some of you do to not be bothered by this false translation, it's a pure expression used to say it is better, like a sportive being on a totally different level compared to another one, meaning that the first is well better than the second. This VIZ translation really confused me. Not because of my personnal translation, because I'm sure of it, but because of the way the professional translators interpreted this passage to transformed it into a SS passage.

 

How am I supposed to rely on Translations that twist the concept completely, like they did with Kushina' s comment? We got the raw and we were able to discover that they do, in fact, twist things to favour their industry, since no one is buying paper copies anymore.

 

They are the official translators but that doesn't mean that they are being professional. And when someone is not professional and biased, then to me they are invisible. That's why it doesn't bother me, because if there is something I learnt since the day I started working is that no matter how hard you try to cover the truth to favor your needs, it will always come back and slaps you in the face in the future.

 

Look at chapter 631, that crumbled down their official translation.

[Rozette]

You know, when I saw this picture, my heart sort of ached.

 

Seeing these pictures of Kushina interacting with Team Minato (especially this one) made me think of how Obito is an oprhan, and I thought.. what if he liked Kushina so much that he wished she was his mother? I can imagine them having so much fun together, and then he goes back home to his empty house, just like Naruto does. It compliments the parallel between them well, and it's also interesting, because in a way Obito looks like a little Menma. 

Edited by Rozette, 13 May 2014 - 03:40 AM.

[Gojira]

No, you didn't but I'm tired of your insults when you can't explain anything. And stop shifting the blame on me. Now let's move on.

Your statement of Sakura favoring Sasuke doesn't make sense to me. You're using chapter 540 as your main argument to prove it. Chapter 540 showed us two things. 1. She believes she is in love with Sasuke, 2. She feels negatively towards him. Where in this does it look like she is favoring Sasuke? Explain to me.

Not to mention, Kakashi himself said that Sakura is not in love with Sasuke anymore. In the manga timeline this is two or three days after that love-letter nin confrontation. Chapter 675 shows that she wasn't in love with Sasuke at the time anymore. That is why I'm bringing it up.

I repeat, that chapter showed us that 1.) she BELIEVES she is in love with Sasuke (which she isn't) and 2.) she has negative feelings towards Sasuke.

So tell me, why are you so hellbent in the idea that Sakura favors Sasuke over Naruto? I just don't see it. (No offense, but please put my above arguments in consideration before you reply with the same one-phrase "Sakura favors Sasuke" , if my above argument is wrong point it out how and why it's wrong. Thank you)

Because, sorry, I don't really see the reasonings in your post. And the others have also said your interpretation of chapter 540 doesn't make sense. Why don't you also reply to the others who quoted you if you're still confused, maybe THEY could help clear things up for you.

1. It wasn't even an insult but ok....I don't even know why you're getting upset

2. Ok...I'm going to say this one more time because there were two people she could have honestly went with (naruto or Sasuke) and she went with Sasuke despite the fact that she loves them both. Kishi could have just as easily left it ambiguous.

3. Yes....It happened after chapter 540...not before

4. Saying that she only thinks she's in love with him at this point in time is an assumption and one that's contradicted by others namely Sai, Naruto and Karin. Again Kakashi's statement is after this moment so I don't know why you keep bringing it up like it happened before

5. I did they stopped responding.

[Gravenimage]

Pepsi@ maybe I missed something but when did she chose Sasuke over Naruto? The manga keeps showing Sakura choosing Naruto over Sasuke.

[Hiraishin]

There is not only that to me. You see, I know what the raw say and rationally I know that there is no ambiguity in his words, that SS is dead, but seeing everywhere people saying otherwise and even on professionnal translations make me wonder if there wasn't an ambiguity to see in Kakashi's words and that ambiguity would mean that indeed Sakura's love for Sasuke is on another level from what they were before (on a higher level). Because really VIZ gives the impression that her love is super deeper from what it was before with their "on a totally different level", I really don't know how some of you do to not be bothered by this false translation, it's a pure expression used to say it is better, like a sportive being on a totally different level compared to another one, meaning that the first is well better than the second. This VIZ translation really confused me. Not because of my personnal translation, because I'm sure of it, but because of the way the professional translators interpreted this passage to transformed it into a SS passage.

I can understand why you would be bothered by it, and I'm a little bothered by it, too. Yeah, "on a totally different level" definitely gives the impression that her feelings are deeper. It's upsetting that professional translators misinterpreted the text so much, and it makes me wonder whether it was intentional... But they've done this before and will probably do it again, so I guess we just have to not rely on their translations, since they can't be trusted.

You know, when I saw this picture, my heart sort of ached.

 
Seeing these pictures of Kushina interacting with Team Minato (especially this one) made me think of how Obito is an oprhan, and I thought.. what if he liked Kushina so much that he wished she was his mother? I can imagine them having so much fun together, and then he goes back home to his empty house, just like Naruto does. It compliments the parallel between them well, and it's also interesting, because in a way Obito looks like a little Menma. 

Kushina and Minato should have just adopted Obito tbh.

[ramenanmitsu]

1. It wasn't even an insult but ok....I don't even know why you're getting upset
2. Ok...I'm going to say this one more time because there were two people she could have honestly went with (naruto or Sasuke) and she went with Sasuke despite the fact that she loves them both. Kishi could have just as easily left it ambiguous.
3. Yes....It happened after chapter 540...not before
4. Saying that she only thinks she's in love with him at this point in time is an assumption and one that's contradicted by others namely Sai, Naruto and Karin. Again Kakashi's statement is after this moment so I don't know why you keep bringing it up like it happened before
5. I did they stopped responding.

Of course she would think of Sasuke. She believes she is in love with him. Why would she bring up Naruto's name when she doesn't believe she's in love with him? But this doesn't disprove that Naruto is more important to her than Sasuke is. Unless you're the believer that romantic love trumps all!

What Sai, Naruto, and Karin said took place before the war. They didn't state anything regards to Sakura's feelings after the team seven reunion. What Kakashi said was only two days after the love-letter nin confrontation, Kakashi's words are an updated observation of her feelings and hold more validity and is timely reliable than Naruto, and Sai's statements that was BEFORE the team seven confrontation and the murder attempts.

Are you seriously saying that during the love-letter nin confrontation, she was in love with Sasuke, only to fall out of love JUST two days later? That doesn't make sense to me. I would have agreed with you if it was before chapter 675.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 13 May 2014 - 04:05 AM.

[redrose3443]

Well this site sure is interesting, from this topic alone. It took me a while to read through all of this and see everyone's thoughts and theories and I must say I enjoyed this.

 

I wanted to read NS side of things, because frankly I thought SS was delusional and I have been praying for Sakura to get over Sasuke, since part two. The evidence, the logic, and the professionalism(other than that arguement going down,but I don't want to get near that.) really lifted my spirits. I was wondering how people would interpret Kakashi's thoughts about Sakura and while I believed it meant she no longer loved him romantically, many still believe she's just a fangirl, sadly.

 

So I enjoyed nearly every post that expressed great arguements and that is anti-SS, but still pro-Sakura. Thank you.

Edited by redrose3443, 13 May 2014 - 03:59 AM.

[luffyq1]

Kushina and Minato should have just adopted Obito tbh.

No wonder he tried to blow up baby Naruto, he was just jealous of his beautiful family in front of him.

[Jo-nov]

1. It wasn't even an insult but ok....I don't even know why you're getting upset

2. Ok...I'm going to say this one more time because there were two people she could have honestly went with (naruto or Sasuke) and she went with Sasuke despite the fact that she loves them both. Kishi could have just as easily left it ambiguous.

3. Yes....It happened after chapter 540...not before

4. Saying that she only thinks she's in love with him at this point in time is an assumption and one that's contradicted by others namely Sai, Naruto and Karin. Again Kakashi's statement is after this moment so I don't know why you keep bringing it up like it happened before

5. I did they stopped responding.

2) Since the scene you're referring to has an image of a dark Sasuke in flames, I don't believe that scene was about her choosing Naruto over Sasuke.  It was about her painfully accepting that Sasuke, who she did romantically love (at least at one point), is not an "awesome" person.  On the other hand, seeing a grinning Naruto in that scene will not leave any ambiguity at all.  As many posters have concluded awhile ago, Sakura's issues with Sasuke will have to be dealt with before she (and Naruto) can fully open up to NaruSaku. 

 

4) Now that Kakashi opened up the can of worms, though, there is a question of what kind of love Sakura had for Sasuke at those times.  Did it really change less than two days ago in manga time?  Sakura may not have an answer to all of this yet. 

[咲耶姫]

 

If I were you, I wouldn't focus on Viz. They have shown time and time again where they stand when it comes to pairings. 

I would only really be bothered by it, if the translator personally knew Kishi or something.

 

How am I supposed to rely on Translations that twist the concept completely, like they did with Kushina' s comment? We got the raw and we were able to discover that they do, in fact, twist things to favour their industry, since no one is buying paper copies anymore.

 

They are the official translators but that doesn't mean that they are being professional. And when someone is not professional and biased, then to me they are invisible. That's why it doesn't bother me, because if there is something I learnt since the day I started working is that no matter how hard you try to cover the truth to favor your needs, it will always come back and slaps you in the face in the future.

 

Look at chapter 631, that crumbled down their official translation.

You're right guys, I just saw 631 VIZ translation and now I'm sure it's not worthy to pay attention to their biased translation LOL"girl-friend"! Pairing War must be very intense if they have to twist translation in order to sell more.

[Transformers03]

Over 70 pages....

To be fair, before I say anything more, not all of the 71 pages are about Kakashi's comment. There were other aspects of the chapter that was discussed, we didn't just focused on the pairing related aspects.

 

However, my fascination (and my frustration) stems from the fact that most people here believe that Kakashi's comment was meant to be against SS. I find that absurd, not because we believe it (especially considering the context), but the fact that soo many of us believe it. What Kakashi said was vague, he just said that Sakura's feelings are different for Sasuke, though what it is wasn't clearly put forth. Nothing was said that she doesn't love him anymore, even if he was referring to her love of Sasuke in past tense. The past tense could implicate her old love of Sasuke, not her new love. Her old love of Sasuke would've been told in past tense, while her new feelings would have used present tense. Kakashi could have very well be just mentioning Sakura's love in the past because he was making comparison to who she was in the past to who she is now. 

 

I am not saying this because this how I viewed the scene, but to give another possibility of what Kakashi met. I feel like so many of us are soo focused if it was pro-SS or anti-SS, that we failed to see it any other way. We keep calling other fandoms as bias idiots, who only selectively read the manga to view it the way they want to. Yet we are also very bias, so of course we are going want to view the Kakashi moment as an anti-SS. That is to be expected, but when we start clamoring for raws that probably wouldn't have changed anything, that is when I couldn't stand of what is happening. It isn't because we wanted the raws, I actually wanted to see the raws myself, it is the fact that automatically we had to call anyone who favored another ship as unreliable. I found hypocritical because we are unreliable as well. We want to see the moment as anti-SS, so of course we would support anything that would suggest that. It is that bias that makes weary to trust any translation from any fan that has shown any favoritism to any ship, including NS.

 

Why wouldn't I trust the opinion of fans of my own ship, because I feel like we are being to closed-minded by this. A lot of us saw it as anti-SS, so we rejected anything that may say otherwise, even if it is true. In the see of fake raws and spoilers, every time something is posted online that even seems to support it as pro-SS, we just call the poster a bias SS shipper and ignore it. Remember when we realized that an SS fan did have the real raws and had translated them? We quickly discard his translation as "another bias SS fan mistranslating the manga to match their own opinions". We then had members on our own site translate the raw, which, coincidently, matched what we wanted to hear. How is having our own guys translate a raw more trustworthy that other fans of opposing ships?

 

I just want to make sure everyone knows that I am not trying to discredit any of our members that attempted to translate the raw themselves. Some of our members do have credibility to them, and several even went the extra mile to explain why certain phrases mean something different in Japanese. However that doesn't excuse the fact that they are still bias to NS. so when they translate the raw as something that benefits us, I feel like I need to be skeptical. Not due to the fact that I don't trust them, yet to be fair. If SS fans are known to eskew translations to benefit their ship, than NS fans have that same possibilities. 

 

I know we keep ensuring each other on this site that we should just ignore the outside fandoms, which I agree to a point. There is a lot of stupid fans out there, especially shippers. They will always be there to say something idiotic or mean-spirited. We should ignore most of it, but we all have to remember that not all fans (including shippers) are like that. Not every SS fan would purposely mistranslate the manga, I wouldn't purposely mistranslate the manga to fit with my own views, even if it is against it. It is frustrating how all shipping fandoms (including NS) always seemed to have to be right. When the SS fan did post the real raws and translated them, we called them fake and that he shouldn't be trusted. Even when they proved to be real, we still have to discredit him for being an SS fan. If I have to discredit him for being a bias SS fan, than I have to discredit every NS fan for their translations. 

 

I don't think what Kakashi said did anything to the SS pairing, if anything, (at least in my opinion), it seemed to just reassure us that either Sakura's feelings are completely different, not related to romantic love, or that she loves him on a great level of romanticism. Yet I am utterly shock to find so many of us purely seeing it as "sinking" the SS ship, when it could very easily have just renewed the fans beliefs (which it did). So I am here reading comments of calling the SS fans dumb, and us right, when we ourselves are mocking to very same thing they are supposedly doing to us. I wrote all of this to point out that we are not being fair, and, frankly, are being somewhat mean-spirited ourselves.