I've repeatedly used the "Naruto restored her lost faith in Team 7," the direct connotation of Ch.540, and the Ino's "'positive love' development" throughout my debate with this guy. Each time he either accuses me of going off on a tangent or just ignores the arguments completely.
Baguette, best counter argument is the aspect of character development, you need to explain how they think Sakura can stay on sasuke without effecting her character and at the same time his. You need to say how they expect Sakuras character to be developed yet still keeping the one trait which is a negative one that proves an obstacle, they need to able to answer this without Sakura being reduced to square one, you need to tell them to make argument that does not reduce all her development in the end having made her role in the journey almost worthless, if they cannot make an argument on her character development especially in a way she has to be consistent, they cannot make a good argument of her staying focused on sasuke, it's basic character development 101, they change or develop over the story and arrive at the end different.
As for 2 counter arguments they should throw to this:
1. If Sakura loved naruto, she would not be fixed on sasuke? Answer is it can be meant for drama, it's a manga, characters are no always going to do the realistic thing otherwise obito would not have gone into crazy mode from losing rin and would have had a better reason before becoming some emo rage fueled negative willed jerk who wants to end the world.
2. Another character from a similar situation, zuko in avatar, he can also be used with sasuke too but this is for sakuras, in avatar zuko was a banished prince who wanted to get his birthright back and had to do this by listening to his father and catch the aang. He tried several times in season 1 but failed, in season 2 he went rouge but began to see more and how he was more free than he thought even though he made a few attempts on aang. At the end of season 2 after many events people expected him to go good but the shock was he sided with his sister to get his birthright back. He got to live the highlife in season 3 but still had doubts in himself because of what he did to his uncle and how he became who his father wanted but ultimately lost himself which was the reason he turned good near the end. How does this fit into Sakura? It's a similar situation in which what she once thought she wanted may not have been what she once sought. After seeing sasuke, she knows he became bad it can be hard for her to accept. Given the panel we know her depression but it can be the start of her shifting away from sasuke, it can be gradual in the same way zuko slowly turned away from his homeland and birthright she can start to turn away from sasuke towards naruto in the future due to new events and interaction from others, they won't simply say love naruto, they could give her reason to think.
When people insult my OTP
Insulting a man’s ship, be worse than insulting his mother.
I can't respond to the whole thing, but here are some responses to the first little chunk.
Sakura's violence
I can understand why some people aren't drawn to Sakura's violent side, however, there were some keen things you did not mention in your analysis.
Number one, you make it sound like she's smacking him around all of the time, when that simply isn't true. If you re-read the manga, you'll find that the last time Sakura hit Naruto in a violent tirade was here:
Chapter 311, page 13. We're 625 chapters into the series. That means that Sakura hasn't hit Naruto with no reason for 314 chapters. The funny thing is, Naruto wasn't even her target here. As you can see, the only reason why he was hit was because he was holding her back from attacking Sai. So really, I don't see the point in criticizing her for being violent towards Naruto. It's been a long time since Part One. I suggest you get over it.
Number two, I'd like to bring up Studio Pierrot. I'm not sure if you're a fan of the anime, but they tend to make Sakura out to be a lot more violent than she actually is. They enjoy taking the quirks of each character, such as Hinata's tendency to faint around Naruto or Chouji's outbursts at being called "tubby", and turning it into comedy. They do the same thing with Sakura by having her send Naruto flying to the sky every so often.
This most often occurs in filler which are completely irrelevant to the canon series. It's meant to be funny, not taken seriously. A good example is Naruto SD: Rock Lee's Springtime of Youth. If you've seen that series, you know it's not supposed to be taken literally by the fans. It's a spoof series that makes fun of the characters and has Sakura throwing her fists around all of the time.
Number three, Sakura is a Tsundere. If you aren't familiar with the term, a Tsundere is a female character who is usually cold, but she becomes spoony on her lover. Or, she is cold to the main character at first, but she becomes lovestruck later. We've seen this development in other Tsundere characters, such as the following:
It's in Sakura's character-type to be easily annoyed and to take it out on the main character. However, just like the other examples provided, it's also in her character-type to develop strong feelings of love for the main character as well. Those feelings don't show all of the time, but they are there.
Lastly, I just want to point out that not all of Sakura's punches are filled with rage.
Color scheme isn't exactly what I would call a solid pairing argument, but if we're going to go there, the NaruSaku color scheme is something I'm pretty sure I've seen before in the manga...
That's not even a pairing argument. LOL. I can speculate something just as absurd by bringing up Sakura's name, which means Cherry Blossom, which is a flower, which needs the sun to survive so NaruSaku is canon.
Let's stick to more solid arguments that come from the actually series, instead of bringing up silly things like names, color schemes and horoscopes.
This was also a mistranslation. One of Heaven & Earth's Japanese to English translators, 六道仙人, cleared that misunderstanding up for us on our 616 thread after we noticed the conflict between MangaPanda's translation and MangaStream's translation.
From my experience, MangaPanda is the best site to read the fan scanlations from, as they're the roughest and therefore the closest to what Kishimoto would have actually said. MangaStream likes to change the dialogue around so that it flows better in English, however, that often leads to misleading translations.
If you don't trust us on this issue, you can always check the official translation when it's released.
He wasn't reacting specifically to their interaction. As Madara explains, he was waiting to see how Naruto would respond, likely to see if he would still react the same way that Obito did when Rin died (which I'm sure is what Obito was expecting.)
Let me go over this. First, he compares Hinata's "death" to when his parents were killed. Then he mentions how love (which can be any kind of love, given his prior example of familial love) leads to sacrifice, which leads to hatred, and then pain. After that, he notes that Naruto is angry and unleashed the Kyuubi. (Durr~) He doubts in Naruto's ability to understand the pain of others. And finally ends by stating that his pain is greater than Naruto's pain.
...Again, I'm not sure how any of that ties into NaruHina.
Naruto unleashed the Kyuubi out of anger, yes, but that isn't an indication that he's fallen in love with Hinata. He would have reacted the same way if it had been anyone else. Protecting his friends is a big deal to Naruto, but in this particular instance, he wasn't able to do anything. He was helpless and forced to watch as Pain completely crippled Hinata's body. Of course he was going to fly into a rage over it.
I didn't realize this series was called Hinata Shippuden.
Not necessarily. He's very capable of making a pairing canon without fading the feelings of other characters. Hinata's love for Naruto, as well as Sakura's love for Sasuke, add a touch of drama to the story, but just because they're included, it doesn't mean that they'll be the final pairings.
I can answer your second question with one word: development. NaruSaku is a slow-burn pairing. Kishimoto has done a lot of progressive build-up for it starting all the way back in chapter 3, but like I said, it's been slow. There have been, and still are, a lot of obstacles for Naruto and Sakura to overcome - one being Sakura's love for Sasuke, which is very close to being put out. (Chapter 540, anyone?)
The hard part about being a NaruSaku fan is having the patience for it, but as they say, good things come to those who wait.
I'm afraid that's not how love works, dear. Let's not shaft the main character's feelings. He still loves his Sakura-chan and she's starting to reciprocate.
Anyway, that's all I have the time for, for now. The Hobbit awaits me! (I finally bought it! I'm so excited~ )
Wow slex great Post!!!
I havent been on since last night and wow that Hinata thread got locked......
I'm very concerned about Kishi and this sudden change of direction after the 5 kage arc. He develops NS for years then drops it and gives Hinata everything? Something is going on, or Kishi is being influenced by something out of his control.
That interview where he says he'd like to date Hinata, is that a legit interview?? if so wtf??
Is Obito going to be redeemed? Maybe. If he does then he should live unless he gives his life for something necessary or if he's already dying.
that said there are several different situations that could happen.
Obito gets redeemed and pulls a Nagato, giving his life to revive everyone. Obito takes a severe hit and is bleeding out, in his last moments he realizes his mistake and says some words of wisdom, dying happily. Obito realizes his mistakes and turns on Madara, then lives the rest of his life happily. Obito is killed without redemption Madara betrays Obito and kills him Obito gives his life to fully revive Madara
there's probobly a few different situations that could occour but I think that's most of the posible outcomes
I think it's a mix of the 1st and 2nd option. As for Madara betraying Obito, that option is possible if Madara planned it or if he sees that Obito is changing to the better.
You kniow ... I have come to understand that everything that Kishimoto does is often something random, has a clear objective and rather in a foreshadowing way. For example, in the famous chapter 573 where all the rookies offer their mental support towards Naruto, the only one who doesn't appear is Neji. At that time I remember very well that almost everyone was surprised at his absence going to think that Kishimoto had completely forgotten about him and didn't care anymore for the poor character, focusing so completely on the goddess Hinata. Well, now we know why he did this, he just saved Neji's (last) moments for later.
Another example... Remember the panic after chapter 615 around later december? After taht, there was been a long break and we knew that the next chapter (615) would have some colour pagers. The idea of a colour panel about the infamous handholding NH was struggling us a lot. Instead, surprise surprise... Kishi didn't draw that handholding in colours and he's just preferred to draw a cover reagarding Naruto-Sasuke-Sakura and again Sasuke in Konoha. Why he did just ignore to colour that handholding? Because he had in mind that the handholding would be on the volume cover (you know, you can have more visibility in this way).
I came in my mind that Kishomoto said that all foreshadowing things he left in the manga will have sense in future. This show that he isn't just a mangaka who makes some random hints. He has some purposes for them. That panel from Sakura in 616 is something of suspect. I don't suggest that Sakura just showed jealousy but maybe a sort of feelings of discomfort and surprise regarding for Hinata's speech to Naruto.
So better that we would sit down here and let see where is going Kishimoto... Or at least I'm inquiring about it although I'm a bit apprehensive
Yup, right. Kishi knows everything and is foreshadowing many things, and it's not the first mangaka who does this. Kishi sometimes likes to manipulates with the readers with some events and thoughts.
I think that we'll see his face, but, sometimes, I think that Kishi will leave his face unknown
I think it's a mix of the 1st and 2nd option. As for Madara betraying Obito, that option is possible if Madara planned it or if he sees that Obito is changing to the better.
If he betrays he loses the same way, if he kills Obito he cant be the jinchuuriki and cant even control the juubi so it's useless for him to do that. He cant do nothing, and Obito is aware of this.
I havent been on since last night and wow that Hinata thread got locked......
I'm very concerned about Kishi and this sudden change of direction after the 5 kage arc. He develops NS for years then drops it and gives Hinata everything? Something is going on, or Kishi is being influenced by something out of his control.
That interview where he says he'd like to date Hinata, is that a legit interview?? if so wtf??
Kishi doesn't always have to put NS scenes. He's being developing it for years, and has a great basic. So, of course, NS will be putted aside for some time to have other events to happen and characters that need some spot light time. If Kishi is influenced by something out of his control, then why he has already fired three editors ?
Kishi doesn't always have to put NS scenes. He's being developing it for years, and has a great basic. So, of course, NS will be putted aside for some time to have other events to happen and characters that need some spot light time. If Kishi is influenced by something out of his control, then why he has already fired three editors ?
Fired 3 editors you say... really??? if so then MUAHAHA
The he says hinata......maybe in the interview, note the maybe. And geez it's an interview, if he was fixated on only hinata, he could have given her some other development to make nh more believable.
I think the best thing to do is just wait until later, we have maybe 2-3 weeks sadly of this flashback left.
It's not hopeless, remember Narusaku is a 2 character front, we still need to see what comes out of chp 540 and 615. Still many possibilities, also need to see where naruto a feelings are. I don't want to be force fed hinata anymore but thats her action for now with many others. If Nh starts to become canon from this point forward, kishi did degrade it to the quality of a fanserviced series. Narusaku being only friendship will still have proven to be better developed only as a friendship. Nh just cannot hold the same value narusaku does unless kishi extended the manga by like 5 or more years and would need a lot of time to develop off this, but as of right now, the climax is in sight the fight with naruto and sasuke is coming, this is not the final battle. There is still everything laying around right in the story for narusaku to happen.
Have hope, I do. Next scene with Sakura is not make or break, not even with hinata, it's when we see narutos feelings again and we will. Even then naruto just suddenly loving hinata undermines so much of his character and the overall story.
If kishi did the narusaku relation well in rtn, he can do it in his own manga. Just have faith in the story and hope he makes the right choice, narusaku does no damage and naruhina risks a good amount. I have faith in the future, narusaku can happen, it's possibly the best ending for team 7 and both naruto and Sakura.
When people insult my OTP
Insulting a man’s ship, be worse than insulting his mother.
Fired 3 editors you say... really??? if so then MUAHAHA
Kishi is god, in and out the manga
Kishi is god? Or you mean Kishi is the boss he is the Man inside and outside his Manga?
@Inferno180 There is something I wanted to mention since your reply to rocci, I'm positive that the reason why she asked for your age was because she admire your great analytical skill I know that for fact because I felt the same way she did.
Don't take it in the wrong way but rocci did not have any negative thought towards you.
That interview where he says he'd like to date Hinata, is that a legit interview?? if so wtf??
Actually he just said "It would be strange if I'd go on date with some girl created by myself... If I was forced, I dare say with... Hinata, maybe...."
About Kishi who has fired his editors it's true... If I dont' mistake, in the lastet 5-6 years he changed at least 5 editors and this's absolutely out of place... Just 2 months ago, on the TOC of WSJ Eiichiro Oda just said goodbye to his editor who left him after 7 years of collaboration!!
The he says hinata......maybe in the interview, note the maybe. And geez it's an interview, if he was fixated on only hinata, he could have given her some other development to make nh more believable.
I think the best thing to do is just wait until later, we have maybe 2-3 weeks sadly of this flashback left.
It's not hopeless, remember Narusaku is a 2 character front, we still need to see what comes out of chp 540 and 615. Still many possibilities, also need to see where naruto a feelings are. I don't want to be force fed hinata anymore but thats her action for now with many others. If Nh starts to become canon from this point forward, kishi did degrade it to the quality of a fanserviced series. Narusaku being only friendship will still have proven to be better developed only as a friendship. Nh just cannot hold the same value narusaku does unless kishi extended the manga by like 5 or more years and would need a lot of time to develop off this, but as of right now, the climax is in sight the fight with naruto and sasuke is coming, this is not the final battle. There is still everything laying around right in the story for narusaku to happen.
Have hope, I do. Next scene with Sakura is not make or break, not even with hinata, it's when we see narutos feelings again and we will. Even then naruto just suddenly loving hinata undermines so much of his character and the overall story.
If kishi did the narusaku relation well in rtn, he can do it in his own manga. Just have faith in the story and hope he makes the right choice, narusaku does no damage and naruhina risks a good amount. I have faith in the future, narusaku can happen, it's possibly the best ending for team 7 and both naruto and Sakura.
Man, i would believe on NH but the problem is that it's Naruto, if he wanted ot make it canon he should give Naruot doubts about his feelings for Sakura, Naruto didnt get any "off panel" development he hold his love for Sakura to a point that if he "move on" now the i cant think otherwise than he give up.
I think that we'll see his face, but, sometimes, I think that Kishi will leave his face unknown
That's one of the main mysteries of the manga! It definitely should be revealed! Although I'm afraid that when this moment comes all fangirl's ovaries will explode.
So far Sakura is the character that went through the biggest change since Part I. It would be such a waste to ignore this...
Funny that on her confession she acknowledged everything that Naruto did to her minus the part "you changed me" do you guys think she will fall in love when she acknowledge that Naruto changed her?
Which for some reason why kushina fall in love with Minato.
Do you know what would be the worst thing about Sakura's development? That Kishimoto could just sacrifice her in order to protect Naruto and Hinata like he did with Neji.... I even see this theory on the opposite fandoms....
Do you know what would be the worst thing about Sakura's development? That Kishimoto could just sacrifice her in order to protect Naruto and Hinata like he did with Neji.... I even see this theory on the opposite fandoms....
Again it will be the major waste..... I guess Naruto wouldn't get over Sakura even after her death. Although I believe that Sakura will get some severe injury.
The real issue is: Kishimoto uses empty words... High words that say-nothing. Love, redemption, bound... This are nice 'confections' but empty.
Is 'LOVE' Hinata's God worship or Sakura selfish desire?
And REDEMPTION... ? Oh my God!! For redemtpion is necessary a sacrifice. The sacrifice is pure, the one redeem is guilty.
But redemption in Kishimoto is wishy-washy word. Not a character frankly guilty. Not true conviction. 'True conviction' ironically is Hinata and Sakura's obsession to respective idols(?!?!?!?). Not a good message
“A good novel tells us the truth about its hero; but a bad novel tells us the truth about its author.”
Actually he just said "It would be strange if I'd go on date with some girl created by myself... If I was forced, I dare say with... Hinata, maybe...."
About Kishi who has fired his editors it's true... If I dont' mistake, in the lastet 5-6 years he changed at least 5 editors and this's absolutely out of place... Just 2 months ago, on the TOC of WSJ Eiichiro Oda just said goodbye to his editor who left him after 7 years of collaboration!!
7 years guys!! It's a lot of time isn't?
At least 5 editors ?
Well, we have a mangaka that has a full control on his own manga.
Do you know what would be the worst thing about Sakura's development? That Kishimoto could just sacrifice her in order to protect Naruto and Hinata like he did with Neji.... I even see this theory on the opposite fandoms....
If Sakura " dies ", she'll be revived. But, most likely, if Sakura were to be in trouble, its effect would be that she got seriously injured.
Do you know what would be the worst thing about Sakura's development? That Kishimoto could just sacrifice her in order to protect Naruto and Hinata like he did with Neji.... I even see this theory on the opposite fandoms....
You just crack me up.
Only someone who want's NH to happen at any cost will desire something like this and who his better than Sakura the main obstacle in NH's way.
Trust me there will be no dying for NH from Sakura's part.
@Inferno180 again.
One thing we need to remember, ~ Naruto really believes that Sakura can love Sasuke and only Sasuke, only Sakura can change that.
~ Sai told Sakura that Naruto is hiding how much pain he feels because of Sakura and Sasuke (Naruto will have to contradict this statement)
~ Lastly the only way NH can happen at this point without betraying Naruto's character and his feelings for Sakura, Kishimoto uses Kushina's advise to make Naruto consider Hinata feelings for him.
Right there Naruto is not betraying his character he is choosing the easy happiness with the excuse that he is fallowing his mothers advice.
The problem is that Kishimoto will be the one betraying on his own story since it's a fact that no one in this Manga cares about Naruto more than Sakura, Hinata might love him but they are not in a long relationship where they becomes partners and best friends. The other fact is that Hinata seems more interested in Naruto noticing her, being equal to Naruto and him liking her back, while Sakura worries about Naruto in every single way. So Kushina's advice will apply to Sakura regarding the one who cares and loves him the most and if the focus is on her personality then there is no debate.
Naruto knows Hinata loves him. But Sakura doesn't now many thing about Naruto, like risking everything just to see her happy despite his own happiness, the bench scene, the fact that she is one of his most precious person and many other things Naruto feels about Sakura.
With Naruto he does not know about Yamato's speech, he hasn't acknowledge how far Sakura will go for him, like him she is also willing to put her happiness aside just to see him happy and save lastly what is her true feelings towards him.
So there you have it. One of the girls thinks about Naruto's future and dream while wants to help him in some way so his dreams becomes a reality, meanwhile the other one try to picture her self as his wife.
If Kishi believes that a woman should devote their life for a man, then NH will happen, but if Kishi believe that all relationship should develop true bond, genuine care and understanding NS will definitely be the end game since the Manga itself supports it.
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