4869 replies to this topic

[Kyuudaime]

Naruto x Hinata fans are in denial really they just they can't understand that their paring has no development what so ever.

Actually, quite a few of them do realize that, it's more or so that they see the pairing will work out in their mind because it's how their mind interprets it.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Actually, quite a few of them do realize that, it's more or so that they see the pairing will work out in their mind because it's how their mind interprets it.

Yeah I know but some people are to like Neji to give a dam

[Jenskott]

A lot of them are convinced NaruHina is unavoidable because Hinata has confessed. I reckon it's because they fully believe Naruto and Hinata's relationship has got a big development despite her nearly inexistent screentime, and she's a very important person to Naruto.

The trouble is... it is untrue. Their relationship hasn't got a big develoment, she isn't more important to Naruto than Team 7, Iruka, Jiraiya, Gaara or Shikamaru, and there haven't been hints of Naruto developing romantic feelings for her.

Rin, Ino, Sakura, Lee... all of them confessed their respective crushes. Or at least they engaged in behaviors plainly and blatantly showed to the aforementioned crushes they were interested. However, there weren't scenes or moments showed Kakashi, Sasuke or Sakura were developing romantic feelings for them. Thus, all of them were rejected.

I'll highlight Sakura's reject: Sasuke ocassionally showed that after his early rejection he had come to regard Sakura like a friend and teammate. But there were no scenes hinting he was falling in love with her. Thus, when she confessed, he turned her down because he didn't love her.

And after that confession, Sakura seemed growing out her crush. Right like Lee's crush got no attention after he confessed, jeopardized his life for saving Sakura, and earned her respect and friendship.

There're NO scenes showing Naruto has grown romantic feelings for Hinata. Hence, he reciprocating her feelings isn't certain at all (on the other hand, there're scenes hinting Sakura has developed feelings for him). It's downright possible -or even likely- that we see a blend of Sakura and Lee's scenaries: Naruto turning Hinata down because he sees her like a friend, and ONLY a friend, and she finally getting over her crush and moving on.

Or even Hinata giving up because she knows her feelings are unrequited. After all, when she confessed, she wasn't expecting he loved her back.

Kishimoto can be a tad impredictable regarding the method, but not the outcome.

And talking about hinted feelings: do you remember how Kurenai muttering Hinata's name was considered proof of Hinata's feelings? It's ironically hilarious Yamato BLATANTLY talking about Sakura's feelings for Naruto in another unfinished sentence is brushed aside like proof.

It's ironically hilarious seeing NaruHina fans wanting seeing Yamato bringing Naruto and Hinata in a bath house, Yamato commenting on Hinata's feelings, Hinata facing Kyuubi, Naruto and Hinata eating ramen together... and at the same time denying those scenes between Naruto and Sakura suggest romantic development (then why do they want so badly that non-romantic development between Naruto and Hinata? Why do they envy so badly Naruto and Sakura's development?).

Fandom, your hypocritical blindness never ceases amusing me.

[catsi563]

When have there ever been any scene involving Hinata, Naruto ramen, Yamato, and a bathhouse? Or yamato commenting about Hinata in the slightest

[Kyuudaime]

When have there ever been any scene involving Hinata, Naruto ramen, Yamato, and a bathhouse? Or yamato commenting about Hinata in the slightest

Uh.. he didn't say that, you should read his post again carefully.

[Derock]

There haven't been any at all. He just stating their "so-called" moments they wanted to see.

And a question... Why are they retranslating Chapter 98 when we already have official translation? That chapter is already done and over for years and they started to bringing the chapter in their words and stating "NaruHina" canon...

They are really desperate...

And Jenskott, Ino nor Rin did not confess their feelings at all. Only Sakura, Lee, and Hinata had.

[Verilance]

nope Rin told Kakashi she loved him right after he told her that Obito loved her

[Derock]

nope Rin told Kakashi she loved him right after he told her that Obito loved her

Hmm... didn't see that. Must had skip that part.

[Jenskott]

There haven't been any at all. He just stating their "so-called" moments they wanted to see.

Pretty much.

And a question... Why are they retranslating Chapter 98 when we already have official translation? That chapter is already done and over for years and they started to bringing the chapter in their words and stating "NaruHina" canon...

They are really desperate...

Dont' ask me.

I've already this before, and I'll repeat it now: the best way for reassuring your faith in NaruSaku is listening to NaruHina arguments. Given that the overwhelming majority are based on things never happened, ignoring things that actually happened or very... original reinterpretations of sundry scenes, you don't understand how they can think this pairing is the noly intended from the beginning.

Seeing how their predictions never or almost never come to pass helps, too.

And Jenskott, Ino nor Rin did not confess their feelings at all. Only Sakura, Lee, and Hinata had.

But Ino bluntly showed Sasuke she was interested. After Sakura found out about it, she never was quiet or secretive about her crush.

Naruto: Chapter 39 - Page 5

Naruto: Chapter 39 - Page 6

You can see she even proclaimed he was hers in front of Sasuke. Of course, Sasuke would be ignoring Sakura and Ino's bickering, but he isn't deaf (only hardheaded). And of course, he couldn't care less.

Regarding Rin:

Naruto: Chapter 244 - Page 14

The first time I read this chapter, I pondered what the scene meant. Now I think the most logical guess is she was confessing to Kakashi, but he turned her down. He didn't love her, he was willing leaving her behind, and his friend, who cared for her, got killed for saving her. It's obvious he thinks he isn't worth of her, so not only he doesn't love her but also he won't consider hook up with her. And from her expression, Rin understands and accepts that.

By the way, a funny scene I found as I was searching for these pages:

Naruto: Chapter 39 - Page 16

Do my eyes deceive me? Sakura is trying cheering Naruto up? No, it's impossible. That b*tch would never do that! Hinata and only Hinata is allowed realizing Naruto's troubles and cheering him up.

Another conveniently forgotten scene for the NaruHina crowd, I reckon.

[RyrineaHaruno]

^

See that what I mean their so closed mined that they can't understand that Naruto doesn't like Hinata and that Sakura is not always a b*tch towards Naruto when its the other way around. she more kinder to him than any of the Rookie Nine.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 29 April 2009 - 04:48 PM.

[Verilance]

looking at the page I can see why there is some confusion, I had never read that chapter online before and was going by the Viz Edition I have at home. In is much clearer with what Rin says and Kakashi's response I think.

One of the problems I have when discussing this topic is if you bring up any of the points supporting Narusaku you are immediately labeled a Hinata hater. I don't hate Hinata in fact she is a great character i just don't think she is right for Naruto.

i also think that they hold on to the Naruhina moments in the manga so strongly because there is so few of them. We on the other hand have a wealth of examples to choose from of varying degrees of strength. from the beginning in Chapter 3 (catsi's personal fave) continuing on to my favourite when they were fighting Zabuza where the first hint of Sakura being attracted to Naruto is seen

http://www.onemanga....aruto/13/18-19/

still my favourite scene because she is beginning to fall in love with him

and there is of course many many others

Edited by Verilance, 29 April 2009 - 09:40 PM.

[RyrineaHaruno]

looking at the page I can see why there is some confusion, I had never read that chapter online before and was going by the Viz Edition I have at home. In is much clearer with what Rin says and Kakashi's response I think.

Not really I have the VIZ Edition as well but this is a matter of opinion.

One of the problems I have when discussing this topic is if you bring up any of the points supporting Narusaku you are immediately labeled a Hinata hater. I don't hate Hinata in fact she is a great character i just don't think she is right for Naruto.[

I not so in love Hinata but she my seventh favorite character, I get tired of saying that I am against Hinata when I am not. I look at the book with out blinders on.

[Jenskott]

See that what I mean their so closed mined that they can't understand that Naruto doesn't like Hinata and that Sakura is not always a b*tch towards Naruto when its the other way around. she more kinder to him than any of the Rookie Nine.

I think we must remember the rules and not bashing other fans.

But I agree with your last point. Sakura is, perhaps, the more compassioinate and kinder of the Rookie Nine.

But people only sees what they want seeing. Sort of like HInata being soooo nice to Naruto when she has barely spoken it.

One of the problems I have when discussing this topic is if you bring up any of the points supporting Narusaku you are immediately labeled a Hinata hater. I don't hate Hinata in fact she is a great character i just don't think she is right for Naruto.

Indeed. Their personalities DON'T mix. You need something else than a "oh, but the opposite atract!" squeal for making a relationship working in the long term. You need similar personalities, common life goals and values... and even then your relationship can fail. If your personalities are wildly different and you barely knew at each other...

Anyway, that argument is maddening. I'm tempted to say they think that because most NaruHina supporters hate Sakura, therefore they would like believing we do the same thing. But maybe it'd be hypocritical, so I shalll not refute it with that argument.

Instead of it I'll point out it's scurrilous claiming that, if you don't support all possible pairings of Character A, you hate that character. It's like telling you hate Naruto if you don't support NaruSaku. It's like telling you hate Hinata if you don't support KibaHina.

I don't support ItaSaku. I surmise I'm a Sakura-hater or an Itachi-hater, then, in spite of I like them.

Regarding Hinata. I don't hate her. I don't really care for her, either. She's a not very important, quite irrelevant secondary character.

Ironically, the Hinata character a lot of Hinata and NaruHina fans love has little resemblance with the character depicted in the manga.

[catsi563]

A lot of the hatred comes from the misunderstanding of common Anime tropes used in the story. The main female hitting the protagonist because hes being stupid or a pervert. etc etc.

they also miss alot of the subtle changes in the character, and even worse fail to understand the root of the characters crush on the rival character.

it gets to apoint where after the first judgement is done they leave no room for a change of opinion, that character is allways gonna be THAT character.

[Sora no Kitsune]

I think we must remember the rules and not bashing other fans.

But I agree with your last point. Sakura is, perhaps, the more compassioinate and kinder of the Rookie Nine.

But people only sees what they want seeing. Sort of like HInata being soooo nice to Naruto when she has barely spoken it.



Indeed. Their personalities DON'T mix. You need something else than a "oh, but the opposite atract!" squeal for making a relationship working in the long term. You need similar personalities, common life goals and values... and even then your relationship can fail. If your personalities are wildly different and you barely knew at each other...

Anyway, that argument is maddening. I'm tempted to say they think that because most NaruHina supporters hate Sakura, therefore they would like believing we do the same thing. But maybe it'd be hypocritical, so I shalll not refute it with that argument.

Instead of it I'll point out it's scurrilous claiming that, if you don't support all possible pairings of Character A, you hate that character. It's like telling you hate Naruto if you don't support NaruSaku. It's like telling you hate Hinata if you don't support KibaHina.

I don't support ItaSaku. I surmise I'm a Sakura-hater or an Itachi-hater, then, in spite of I like them.

Regarding Hinata. I don't hate her. I don't really care for her, either. She's a not very important, quite irrelevant secondary character.

Ironically, the Hinata character a lot of Hinata and NaruHina fans love has little resemblance with the character depicted in the manga.

I totally aggre with you. Hinata isn't a bad character and would have ended up really cool if she had been given the proper development. However, she was not developed, and therfore does not have enough screen time to be with anyone really. She has been in, at the most, 40 chapters, and in those chapters, maybe only a few panels or so. Naruto doesn't even know her as anything but a friendly comrade who is always red-faced and fients alot, and Hinata does't know anything about Naruto other than that he is hard working and never gives up.

Which is what bring me to question of how do NaruHina fans even begin to think this way when there is only about 4 NaruHina moments and maybe 20 chapters of interaction when compaired with 100+ NaruSaku moments and 300+ chapters of development. I don't hate them for their opinion, but they are getting rather annoying with the recent confession and completely illogical fantasies. They need to open up to other view points and start reading the manga fully and completely rather than stopping after the Hinata vs. Neji fight and starting again after Hinata's confession.

[Hysteria]

Just gonna come in and share my two cents:

NaruHina WILL happen. Looking at it from an objective point of view (pay no heed to my sig <______<), I don't see how it can't.

1. It will make Sakura look like a complete b*tch. Up to this point, she's never shown any true romantic interest in Naruto, AND she all but knows Hinata loves Naruto. To go after Naruto now would make he look awful and OOC, because the connection between Naruto and Sakura is more brother/sister than anything else.

2. If Naruto rejects her after all that, it not only makes him look like a kitten and go against his character, but also goes against the main theme of "people accepting other people". It just doesn't work.

3. Why go through all the effort what with the confession and everything only to completely crap all over it? I doubt Kishi would put that in there unless something was to come of it.

4. Let's be honest here, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that NaruHina is the most popular non-yaoi pairing in Naruto. Kishi would be alienating a lot of fans if he went with NaruSaku now.

There's just way to much pointing in NaruHina's favor. This isn't an argument of which pairing is better, it's the objective truth. It would be plain bad writing at this point, make Naruto's character look sh*tty, go against the theme of Naruto, and alienate the fanbase.

Looking at it from an objective point of view...

...objective point of view...

...objective...

[Kyuudaime]

Just gonna come in and share my two cents:

NaruHina WILL happen. Looking at it from an objective point of view (pay no heed to my sig <______<), I don't see how it can't.

1. It will make Sakura look like a complete b*tch. Up to this point, she's never shown any true romantic interest in Naruto, AND she all but knows Hinata loves Naruto. To go after Naruto now would make he look awful and OOC, because the connection between Naruto and Sakura is more brother/sister than anything else.

This is mainly subjective, and is exclusively you opinion and probably many others.

2. If Naruto rejects her after all that, it not only makes him look like a kitten and go against his character, but also goes against the main theme of "people accepting other people". It just doesn't work.

Partly subjective and I thought the main theme of Naruto was something else… that I can’t recall. Either way, “people accepting other people” does not equate to him having to love her or return her feelings.

3. Why go through all the effort what with the confession and everything only to completely crap all over it? I doubt Kishi would put that in there unless something was to come of it.

Why not wrap it up? Would you have preferred if it was left unsaid just so you could have been questioning what happened to Hinata’s feelings?

4. Let's be honest here, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that NaruHina is the most popular non-yaoi pairing in Naruto. Kishi would be alienating a lot of fans if he went with NaruSaku now.

It might not be a stretch to say NaruHina is the most popular non-yaoi paring in Naruto, however I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the combination of the NaruSaku fandom and non-pairing supporters is greater, and that going with NaruHina may alienate those fans.

There's just way to much pointing in NaruHina's favor. This isn't an argument of which pairing is better, it's the objective truth. It would be plain bad writing at this point, make Naruto's character look sh*tty, go against the theme of Naruto, and alienate the fanbase.

And what is the objective truth? That Naruto is required to fall in love with Hinata?

I rest my case.

[Jenskott]

A lot of the hatred comes from the misunderstanding of common Anime tropes used in the story. The main female hitting the protagonist because hes being stupid or a pervert. etc etc.

they also miss alot of the subtle changes in the character, and even worse fail to understand the root of the characters crush on the rival character.

it gets to apoint where after the first judgement is done they leave no room for a change of opinion, that character is allways gonna be THAT character.

That's a very accurate and concise summary of the situation.

And personally I'm so SICK of the "Sakura hits Naruto so she hates him! She's a b*tch because she's always hitting him!" excuse. EVERY TIME I heard it, it sounds falser.

Every time I read it, I think: "If you don't understand the key concepts of a genre, please, STOP READING. Reading a Shonen manga and complaining about the female lead character hitting the male main character is like reading Harry Potter and complaining because it's a magic-themed book and you don't like magic. If you don't like magic tales, why are you reading it?"

Violence has been used like comic relief in comic-books and cartoons for AGES. I figure those "Sakura is an abuser!" folks never watched some Loony Toones episodes.

And, God Almighty, when you point out that, some of them retort other male characters fight back, but Naruto doesn't, so it mades him looking like a pussy. Fighting back? Goku, Ichigo, Ryo Saeba, Ranma Saotome, Kenshin Himura... are beaten SEVERAL TIMES IN EACH CHAPTER by girls wouldn't be able to ever touch them in normal circumstances (and not, they don't fight back). Why can those girls hit them, then?

Why those scenes are comic relief. Hence, they are NOT to be taken seriously.

Which is what bring me to question of how do NaruHina fans even begin to think this way when there is only about 4 NaruHina moments and maybe 20 chapters of interaction when compaired with 100+ NaruSaku moments and 300+ chapters of development. I don't hate them for their opinion, but they are getting rather annoying with the recent confession and completely illogical fantasies. They need to open up to other view points and start reading the manga fully and completely rather than stopping after the Hinata vs. Neji fight and starting again after Hinata's confession.

I've already said this: stubborn blindness. They did read Neji vs Hinata fight, thought they made a beautiful couple, made -too many- illusions about its chances of it becoming canon, and they have passed over three hundred chapters refusing to acknowledge anything could ruin their fantasies of canonicity.

NaruHina WILL happen. Looking at it from an objective point of view (pay no heed to my sig <______<), I don't see how it can't.

Objective POV. That's a good joke.

Neither of the ongoing plotlines demands Naruto hooking up with ANYBODY for reaching one resolution. Naruto doesn't need hooking up with anybody for the manga finishing. So I don't see how you can tell it can't NOT happen when NO romance is necessary for closing the story.

1. It will make Sakura look like a complete b*tch.

Of course. To the eyes of NaruHina shippers, Sakura is a b*tch. Not matter what she does or doesn't, she was, is and will always be a b*tch. If she doesn't love Naruto, she's a b*tch. If she loves Naruto, is a b*tch.

Up to this point, she's never shown any true romantic interest in Naruto,

She HAS shown romantic interest in Naruto. You only have refused seeing the hints because they spoil your perfect fantasy.

AND she all but knows Hinata loves Naruto.

So what?

To go after Naruto now would make he look awful and OOC, because the connection between Naruto and Sakura is more brother/sister than anything else.

Only on your mind. Their connection isn't brotherly at all. I don't know where you have got that idea. You can try convince me it's only friendship, but brother/sister bond? I don't understand where you got that from. I'd bet a shipper blurted out that nosense and other shippers repeated it like messenger parrots only because it was an anti-NaruSaku argument, without really thinking about it.

2. If Naruto rejects her after all that, it not only makes him look like a kitten

Naruto doesn't love Hinata. Naruto isn't forced to love someone back only because that person risked her life for him. If Hinata risked her life for him in order to force him to love her back, then her act wasn't selfish at all and she'd be a b*tch.

And Sakura has risked her life for Naruto more times than Hinata. And UNLIKE Hinata, Naruto owes his life to Sakura.

and go against his character,

Falling in love with someone all of sudden would go against his character.

But, given that his feelings don't matter and the ultimate goal of his existence is being Hinata's prize, it doesn't matter, right?

but also goes against the main theme of "people accepting other people".

So far I have seen NOTHING makes me thinking that main theme is nothing else a NaruHina invention. It sounds like the "Kishimoto told in an interview NaruSasu would become canon" baseless idiocy NaruSasu fans repeat.

It just doesn't work.

LOVE doesn't work like that.

3. Why go through all the effort what with the confession and everything only to completely crap all over it?

Sakura, Lee, Ino and Rin tell "Hi".

For closing that dangling plotline, which doesn't need Hinata and Naruto getting together for being closed. Have you thought about it?

By the way, why going through all the effort of getting Naruto in love with Sakura, keeping him in love with Sakura, and going out of his way to write scenes suggest Sakura is falling in for Naruto only for completely crap over it? We are talking of the whole manga versus two scenes!

I doubt Kishi would put that in there unless something was to come of it.

Yes, like when he put Lee vowing pursuing Sakura and winning her over, right?

Let's see what happened after Sakura confession: when we read the next chapters and arcs, we see Sakura never tells, states or thinks ever again she loves Sasuke. She isn't grieving the whole time, and she seems more strong-willed and more self-assured than before. And she is closer to Naruto. On the other hand, Sasuke has proved he doesn't care for his teammates anymore, and he'll kill them if they get in the way.

The facts included in this list ARE objective facts.

Apparently, what has come from SasuSaku confession is Sakura has gotten over her crush. Thus, I believe that scene was made for killing the pairing.

4. Let's be honest here, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that NaruHina is the most popular non-yaoi pairing in Naruto. Kishi would be alienating a lot of fans if he went with NaruSaku now.

Oh, Good Lord in the Heaven, the "We're more people so Kishimoto will do whatever we want" argument! Can this list of "reasons" getting lamer? Should I reply this crap? Kishimoto doesn't write his manga for pleasing an -obnoxiously- loud fraction of the fandom!

And for your information, NaruHina is NOT the heterosexual pairing more popular. The last time I checked, NaruSaku and SasuSaku are more popular in Japan.

And being the most popular pairing didn't help Zutara at all.

There's just way to much pointing in NaruHina's favor.

Indeed. Four made-up reasonings of why NaruHina should happen, which have little to no basis on the manga (like the number four reason), which completely ignore and disregard the development of the official story.

Neither of them changes the fact of Naruto loves other girl, and Naruto and Hinata have got two conversations in over three hundred chapters (one of them a monologue).

This isn't an argument of which pairing is better, it's the objective truth.

The objective truth? This isn't an objective truth, this is your stubborn blindness and bias. No one of your arguments have been objective, let alone truths.

It would be plain bad writing at this point, make Naruto's character look sh*tty, go against the theme of Naruto, and alienate the fanbase.

And this is again your blindness, your bias and your dellusions.

It wouldn't be bad writing because Naruto's relationship with other girl has been developed from the beginning, whereas his and Hinata's relationship hasn't got further development since Chuunin exams (and even then, the only development was Naruto saw Hinata like a friend). It wouldn't make Naruto look sh*tty because he isn't forced to love a person only because she virtually committed suicide in front of him, and Hinata wasn't hoping being loved back. It wouldn't go against the theme of Naruto because that has never been Naruto's theme. And NaruHina becoming canon also would alienate the fanbase, so isn't a reason for making it happening.

Again, a NaruHina fan claims NaruHna is inevitable and meant to happen. And again he or she tries proving it with a bunch of reasonings are nothing but bias, instead of analyzing the official source. And he or she calls it the objective truth.

It's never "NaruHina will happen because in the manga...". It's always "NaruHina will happen because Naruto would be a bastard, Sakura is a b*tch, Naruto and Sakura are like siblings, our fandom is bigger...".

Am I supposed to be impressed or convinced? Am I supposed to consider their arguments are objective truth?

[Derock]

Personally, I viewed that there is something wrong with the fans. There are NO objective point of view of this issue. Common sense is exactly right there because the author had wrote it down and yet many fans to...

hmm.. what's the word?

Misinterpret.

Thank God, last week I had to write an essay about the Bible's misinterpretation because of the old translations' mistakes of understanding the context meanings, symbols, subtle messages, etc. from the Bible. (Got an A on that paper.)

Many NaruHina fans misinterpret alot of scenes. Example is that conversation in Chapter 98 way back. Everyone in that side of fandom thinking Naruto and Hinata "are meant to be" but in actually, they lost the message:

Naruto: "I like people like you." (actual meaning: Naruto enjoys people who believe in themselves and help a person out when they are down) I guess that's how I interpret his quote to Hinata.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Personally, I viewed that there is something wrong with the fans. There are NO objective point of view of this issue. Common sense is exactly right there because the author had wrote it down and yet many fans to...

hmm.. what's the word?

Misinterpret.

Thank God, last week I had to write an essay about the Bible's misinterpretation because of the old translations' mistakes of understanding the context meanings, symbols, subtle messages, etc. from the Bible. (Got an A on that paper.)

Many NaruHina fans misinterpret alot of scenes. Example is that conversation in Chapter 98 way back. Everyone in that side of fandom thinking Naruto and Hinata "are meant to be" but in actually, they lost the message:

Naruto: "I like people like you." (actual meaning: Naruto enjoys people who believe in themselves and help a person out when they are down) I guess that's how I interpret his quote to Hinata.

I agree with you Derock oh and nice avatar

2. If Naruto rejects her after all that, it not only makes him look like a kitten and go against his character, but also goes against the main theme of "people accepting other people". It just doesn't work.

Oh just because a guy rejects a girl it makes him look like a kitten . I am sorry but that is phial on so many levels that it not even funny.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 01 May 2009 - 10:41 PM.