749 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, that's the entire point of part 2 and post tsunade arc in part 1.

Which is why some say beginning of part 2 is the real downfall. I guess you can argue that in hindsight, they are right.

Anyway, I agree that Gai should have died. I mean I was thinking there will be something by the end. Nothing. So what's the point? I'm not going to count on Boruto series to make another use. It's still not necessary. A bad copout.

I have one in mind for the weekend.

[rocci]

@touken
I can understand where they're coming from.

Early part 2 has problem with pacing and the lack of naruto true fight, But I don't think that as truly the downfall of naruto.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@touken
I can understand where they're coming from.

Early part 2 has problem with pacing and the lack of naruto true fight, But I don't think that as truly the downfall of naruto.

Me neither.

Ok here's one coming.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: One of the major downside of part 2 is the drama side went up tenfold, albeit taking it serious; unlike part 1, where it was more comedy, "fun," and action. Instances such as Naruto and Sauke being rivals more so than brotherly lost love, Naruto being loud mouth usual Shounen protagonist, etc.

Agee or disagree?

[rocci]

I kind of agree.

I always see naruto as dramatic battle manga. Even in part 1, when we have iruka stuff, zabuza crying over love, and other dramatic moment.
But in part 1, it doesn't make the character look pathetic and it drive the plot. It has function.

While in part 2 what we see is more of angst, unnecessary one. It make naruto look pathetic to the point we questioning his worth as the hero.
And his obsession truly destroy his character imo.

Naruto & sasuke rivalry turn into friend turn into brotherly love is not the problem. Problem come when it turn into obsessive goal that make naruto look like a dump sasuke gay lover. It's a half hearth approach, if you want to make them a couple then make it real, if not then make it comedic. There's a reason why sns want them to be canon, with how serious kishi take their relationship to the point a critic called sasuke as the heroine.

He should look at berserk. It has the same drama it not more mature and complex. But the author always deliver a good story.

[Namikaze Clan]

Disagree to an extent.

Given that Naruto and the other rookies were older the story needed to take a darker progression from the lighter part 1. Though the downside was that Kishi couldn't tell the difference between geniune drama and melodrama

[rocci]

I think part 1 is more darker than part 2.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I think part 1 is more darker than part 2.

In terms of violence and backstories, it was. Part 2 made things light for good guys backstories.

[Nate River]

Statement: One of the major downside of part 2 is the drama side went up tenfold, albeit taking it serious; unlike part 1, where it was more comedy, "fun," and action. Instances such as Naruto and Sauke being rivals more so than brotherly lost love, Naruto being loud mouth usual Shounen protagonist, etc.

Agee or disagree?

 

Disagree. Drama wasn't the issue.

 

The issue was not either understanding or simply not caring about the nature of his characters or his actions. For example, 

 

Statement: Despite Itachi being planned to be a hero, he should have remain a villain.

Agree or disagree?

 

Itachi openly tells Naruto about what he did. Naruto knowns Itachi, despite waxing on about hate, purposely nurtured that emotion within Sasuke for the purpose of Itachi's own penance. It's not hard to understand why Itachi might feel that way, but it's hypocritical and, far worse, horribly selfish. Sasuke's walking that path might have been unavoidable, but Itachi went out of his way to make it happen.

 

Naruto, hearing this, says nothing. Really?

 

Worse yet, Itachi keeps his own brother alive and the rest of the kids? Nah, sucks to be them. It's hard to believe Sasuke was the only child of the whole clan at the time. The manga totally ignores the fact that Itachi almost certainly killed innocents while sparing Sasuke for selfish reasons.

 

Part 2 is filled with problems like this. That's why it sucks.

 

It's probably better he remained a villain simply because Kishimoto was not prepared to deal with the "good" version. Because of the position he was in, there probably wasn't a way Itachi could ever wear that mantle, but I'm not at all sure Kishimoto could see that. That said, I think either path, objectively speaking, could have worked had those involved understand the implications of what the "good" path meant.

 

 

[Legend054]

Disagree. Part 2 had to take it a step further because Naruto and his friends have all grown up and matured. It was time for them to deal with the akatsuki

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, I have to agree to certain extent. On one hand, it's nothing wrong to up the ante of one focus in which this case is drama. On the other hand, you have to do it right and this series didn't do it right. There were right moments here and there, but one of the few problems is the repetition of the goal, which is saving Sasuke. The more the character repeats, the more it feel like someone is being a pedestal. It happened so often that Sasuke can be confused with the protagonist, despite the title of the series.

Besides, there are part 2 that may increase one aspect over another yet keep similar yet favorable formula that fans grew to love. While it may not have moments that is better than the first part, it shouldn't be that mass of differences. Part 2 started off something familiar to part 1, but in a mature state. However, it slowly drift away from it and become more of drama that focuses much more on talking and exposition. It's like going to a series with a lot of mystery elements with few action to a series that is over the top action and much less puzzle solving.

In a way, I feel like the War Arc was trying to recapture that old element of nothing but action, but failed because it's too much with less to care and too little too late. This is why Naruto have his first real fight in Pain Arc while he dwells and depress over Sasuke.

Next one is coming.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: In the end, Sakura is among in the top 5 worst characters in the series.

Agree or disagree?

[Nostradamus]

Statement: In the end, Sakura is among in the top 5 worst characters in the series.

Agree or disagree?

If you're including that piece of kitten of a last volume, then yes. If you're willing to ignore it, then no.

[VanitasDS76491]

Statement: In the end, Sakura is among in the top 5 worst characters in the series.

Agree or disagree?

Up til chapter 693 she wasn't but after ya she is but I hate Sasuke and Hinata more. I say she's a better mother than Hinata but that's no really saying much give how she was written in Ch.700 and Gaiden.

 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Up til chapter 693 she wasn't but after ya she is but I hate Sasuke and Hinata more. I say she's a better mother than Hinata but that's no really saying much give how she was written in Ch.700 and Gaiden.

 

 

 

If you're including that piece of kitten of a last volume, then yes. If you're willing to ignore it, then no.

Which is why  I ignore 693-700 as canon.

[Namikaze Clan]

Statement: In the end, Sakura is among in the top 5 worst characters in the series.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree.

From 693 and onwards, she got ruined, but not to the point that she became one of the top five. I'd say Obito, Itatchi, and Naruto himself were worse. She has some redeeming parts to her such as raising her daughter by herself during her husband's absence

[TouKen4Life3g]

Disagree.

From 693 and onwards, she got ruined, but not to the point that she became one of the top five. I'd say Obito, Itatchi, and Naruto himself were worse. She has some redeeming parts to her such as raising her daughter by herself during her husband's absence

So who fills in the remaining two of worst character in there?

[RedFaction]

So who fills in the remaining two of worst character in there?

Sasuke and Kaguya/Black Zetsu would be my picks.

[Nate River]

So who fills in the remaining two of worst character in there?

Kaguya is the worst. There is no character to speak of. We learn more about her in an exposition prior to her appearance than we do during her actual screen time. 

 

Sakura among the five worst? Disagree. 693 and its aftermath defeated the whole purpose of her character's journey, but she had good moments prior. I think the same could be said of Itachi, Naruto, and Kabuto and the ending ruined them too.

 

I guess for me it'd be:

 

1) Kaguya: hard worthy of being called a character. She was an escape hatch.

 

2) The Zetsu's: Was there ever any really effort to make the audience give a damn about these guys? Black Zetsu also assuming the role of designated kitten (see Danzo) just out of nowhere.

 

3) Team Not Seven: Characters who were allowed to linger around like a bad odor through part 2 despite them being largely without purpose. And then there was turning Karin's near death into comedy gold. Discovering the scroll by accident?

 

4) Danzo: I hate that he Kishimoto turned him into a designated kitten in order to minimize the reach of Konoha's bad acts.

 

5) The Edo Tensei's: Death never looked so cheap.

[rocci]

@nate
Team taka has the same purpose with sai and Yamato, a fill in.
So I disagree with you that they're the worst.