235 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

Everyone...

Time to halt the protest against Trump. Time to protest against SUPER!!!

Why? What happened?

[Yyubie]

Wow Vegito actually take a beating ??

I mean against Ultimate Buu hes not even sweating, not even trying, it's like adult armwrestling with baby, i don't know and i don't think this Zamas/Black Goku is anymore powerful than Kid Buu, because he is in training Kai and just taking Goku's body makes him THAT strong??. I have hard time understanding the power level/progress in DB super, maybe it's just me , i feel like i don't really understand these SSJ blue and how powerful it is is it really SSJ god or different, because in battle of the gods goku SSJ god have red aura and different hairstyle. I feel like power level in super is a little bit messy.

[Nostradamus]

That was kind of lame ending.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Who knew Erza can invade DB universe...

[Frankie]

Vegito got nerfed.
Trunks just became a full on Gary-Stu on the level of Sasuke.
A horrible Potara Retcon.
Zamasu was given a very anti climatic ending.
This episode is Naruto Ending level bad.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Vegito got nerfed.
Trunks just became a full on Gary-Stu on the level of Sasuke.
A horrible Potara Retcon.
Zamasu was given a very anti climatic ending.
This episode is Naruto Ending level bad.

Fused Zamasu was a mistake.

[Frankie]

Fused Zamasu was a mistake.

Vegeta should've killed Black Goku.
Goku should've sealed Zamasu.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't mind Trunks ending the fight but why like that. That's writing into the corner moment that really bugged me. The reason why I said it was a mistake is because Goku Black had a lot going. If anything, too much Zamasu hindered this arc. He wasn't the good one. It was Goku Black that got people engaged. So this defeat was Kaguya level.

[Nostradamus]

So we all agree that was lame?

[TouKen4Life3g]

So we all agree that was lame?

Looks that way. Anyone would like to read my answer to the question, "What did Dragon Ball Super do?" here it is.

The latest episode is practically the ending of the battle that didnt give you a warning that its all ending here, which that itself is a problem. What I mean is that many moments happened so fast, that you would think it got cancelled, which is of course not true. While DBZ did take long, hence the joke of pacing, it does capitalized the moment to make it epic and greatly appreciated its time. Here, when it happens, it just does.

Vegetto was the main hype that everyone was waiting for. In fact, the preview blatantly show about half the action scenes he got in here. That said he was so hyped that everyone thought this would the best episode of all time. Well, here we are.

The potara fusion was retconned greatly for the sake of this battle. That or for the budget cut. Anyway, I do appreciate the reminder and attempt to do something about that, but much like bringing back a character after an amazing sendoff, aka death, it ruined the foundation. Not only we are now insinuating that theres a time limit, it doesnt stand out differently than Gogeta. Yes, that happened in a movie, but the ability still exist. So why is this one has to get downplayed? The tension was to do the fusion and never go back. That was the hype and it was drastic measure. Now, that was blundered by Elder Kai apparently, which Supreme Kai just sat there for no any backup remarks.

Its equivalent to Itachi stating that Sharingan is always done by hatred because of this and that, only to say, its the power of love. Why do that? The worst part of that type of writing is making another character look completely foolish, rather than reinforced the idea. Im not saying everyone has to be on the same level of intellect; however, the mere fact that Super was there to destroy a lore is mind blowing.

Vegettos role, while fun, was short and almost served as a fan service if anything. It wouldnt be that much of a difference if you have 100% Goku and Vegeta fighting Zamasu and build a better tension and hype. If anything, it came off as an advertisement to the game since we need more DLC for Xenoverse 2. The clear argument is the Final Kamehameha, which I last recalled being a game name.

Then we enter Trunks. Look, I dont hate him. I dont dislike him. In fact, when the arc was announced to be his focus, I said to myself, Oh this is going to be good. However, theres a difference between spotlight and pandering; its the latter. When you recapped the entire arc/saga, youll notice that he received far too many power ups as well as rebound that shouldnt happen.

Super Saiyan Blue is a huge gap, yet Trunks acted like he can withstand that level just fine. Mafuba was said that you can die and you have to do it perfect, so Goku trained. Trunks did it on the spot. Trunks gets a powered up that you might as well call it False Super Saiyan Blue. Why he has it? Because Erza happened. Now, in this very episode, he has spirit bomb. Why? Because todays Shounen is brought to you by asspulls.

He suddenly have the power to form it to his broken sword. Vegetto had a hard time with Zamasu or at least was a equal ground, but Trunks did it with ease and that was before Goku and Vegeta share energy with him, whom are the last real fighters with incredible power. Zamasu was said he got weakened but it has reflection on that, just that he is wild, so not much of a difference. Then, Trunks creates a spirit bomb with very little people in that world, so boom, he is now god like. Zamasu just die by a slice and the episode abruptly ended, which didnt leave any impact to be amazed.

Even if he doesnt die by that, the idea of Zeno, who is like end all be all, showing up and finish it will still leave an anticlimactic feeling. Its a lose-lose situation if you ask me. Its strange on how the ending of the final boss in this series hasnt been that good for a while. I still find that Friezas defeat in Super really baffling. Whatever happened to those classic moments from DB/DBZ feeling. When you look back, the ending doesnt subject to asspull, rather its all or nothing, which served the excitement much better.

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 13 November 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[Yyubie]

@Frankie

That's why i find it hard to understand DB Super power level, i'm starting to think that this is just another GT/non cannon story but far better than GT of course. I think Vegito should at least at par with Beerus, because base on Resurrection of F movie , Frieza stated that his father told him that he should stay away from Majin Buu and Beerus Hakaishin, so that means both of them are extremely dangerous and powerful. I'm really shocked , fusion give huge boost of power , goku and vegeta got beat to pulp against Ultimate Buu and Kid Buu, but with Potara=Vegito , suddenly becomes baby bullied play, his punches not even felt anymore, Vegito vs Ultimate Buu is just like Beerus vs SSJ3 Goku when they first meet, that's just how HUGE the power boost is, it think the only one that can beat Vegito easy is Whis. This Zamas/Black Goku guy .... to me is a joke, but oh well .... DBZ did well better explaining power level it's easier to understand there.

[Nostradamus]

Looks that way. Anyone would like to read my answer to the question, "What did Dragon Ball Super do?" here it is.
 

Wow every single thing you said resonated with me while watching the episode. Especially the parts with Trunks.

[Bail o' Lies]

Honestly I see two problems with is the potara earrings and the Spirit Bomb SwordTM thing.

 

The thing is they clearly wanted Trunks to be the one to slay Zamasu, but they also wanted to bring in Vegito/Gogeta for the rating. But they knew they couldn't make one of them lose and then Trunks step in for the win. So they need the fusion dance time limit. Which Zamasu would not give them that time if they tried, and also it less gratifying then using the same fusion to beat him. So they were left with the Potara fusion which they knew was permanent. So they need the potara fusion to no longer be permanent. Well they defused before when fighting buu. But most people assumed the potara earring defused then because majin buu was a being made of magic which disrupted the fusion. They also need to explain the existence of Kabito Kai, as well as old kai. Since one needed the Dragonball to defused, since it was permanent for them. So instead they changed it to "it is permanent only if it involves a kai." So a retcon.

 

Then the Spirit Bomb SwordTM thing... How did that happen? OK. "Trunks uses the combine hope of the remaining humans to power himself in order to kill Zamasu." How did he do that? Cause it looks like they just wished hard enough and it happened. Also why was it in the shape of a spirit bomb?

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 13 November 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[Yyubie]

I never like DBS from the start, the story is bad, to me they fail to gain a foothold as a continuations of the previous series, the think that i really hate is those 3 little guy , the mini mai gank. They always appear and waste some screen time, they not even relevant , not even funny , they just a waste of time what's the point of these 3 idiots?? i don't understand. The fight become slow, maybe because the up the graphic quality that makes it hard to move the character faster. Each episode literally there is always 5-10 minutes wasted on useless thing, it's either the trio gank , or the alien postman.

[Nostradamus]

@Frankie

That's why i find it hard to understand DB Super power level, i'm starting to think that this is just another GT/non cannon story but far better than GT of course. I think Vegito should at least at par with Beerus, because base on Resurrection of F movie , Frieza stated that his father told him that he should stay away from Majin Buu and Beerus Hakaishin, so that means both of them are extremely dangerous and powerful. I'm really shocked , fusion give huge boost of power , goku and vegeta got beat to pulp against Ultimate Buu and Kid Buu, but with Potara=Vegito , suddenly becomes baby bullied play, his punches not even felt anymore, Vegito vs Ultimate Buu is just like Beerus vs SSJ3 Goku when they first meet, that's just how HUGE the power boost is, it think the only one that can beat Vegito easy is Whis. This Zamas/Black Goku guy .... to me is a joke, but oh well .... DBZ did well better explaining power level it's easier to understand there.

The power levels got screwed up the moment they introduced Golden Frieza. After that everything became ridiculous. And not ridiculous in terms of way overpowered, but in terms of they just don't make sense anymore.

Back in DBZ we saw Frieza power-up to 100% against SSJ Goku entry level and still Frieza stood no chance. Then in Super with 6 months of training if I remember correctly, Frieza not only that he could easily beat SSJ1, but SSJ2, SSJ3 and could stand toe-to-toe with SSJ Blue. A form that's beyond SSJ God.

Then we had Trunks powered-up to SSJ2 being really close to Goku SSJ3. And now with Black/Zamasu; Goku easily defeated Zamasu in that sparing match with at SSJ2 but then once Zamasu had an immortal body, Goku is struggling with SSJ Blue against the exact same opponent.

And then we had Trunks, who just like 4life said basically became False SSJ Blue and with the help of a Spirit Bomb gathered from maybe 100 people managed to defeat Zamasu combined with Goku's body.

Yeah yeah the power of hope and all that bs.

While Kid Buu need a Spirit Bomb gathered from everyone on Earth including Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Kid Trunks, and even that wasn't enough, you still needed Goku at max to defeat him. 

 

DBS started nicely but continued badly. Just like a Joss Whedon movie.

Edited by Nostradamus, 13 November 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[Yyubie]

The power levels got screwed up the moment they introduced Golden Frieza. After that everything became ridiculous. And not ridiculous in terms of way overpowered, but in terms of they just don't make sense anymore.

Back in DBZ we saw Frieza power-up to 100% against SSJ Goku entry level and still Frieza stood no chance. Then in Super with 6 months of training if I remember correctly, Frieza not only that he could easily beat SSJ1, but SSJ2, SSJ3 and could stand toe-to-toe with SSJ Blue. A form that's beyond SSJ God.

Then we had Trunks powered-up to SSJ2 being really close to Goku SSJ3. And now with Black/Zamasu; Goku easily defeated Zamasu in that sparing match with at SSJ2 but then once Zamasu had an immortal body, Goku is struggling with SSJ Blue against the exact same opponent.

And then we had Trunks, who just like 4life said basically became False SSJ Blue and with the help of a Spirit Bomb gathered from maybe 100 people managed to defeat Zamasu combined with Goku's body.

Yeah yeah the power of hope and all that bs.

While Kid Buu need a Spirit Bomb gathered from everyone on Earth including Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Kid Trunks, and even that wasn't enough, you still needed Goku at max to defeat him. 

 

DBS started nicely but continued badly. Just like a Joss Whedon movie.

Yup bottom line is, story bad and still goes downhill, power level which is the most important aspect in fighting anime/manga is a mess.

I think they need to make a scouter a come back, everything began with scouter , that's how you make people understand the difference between each character power, and speak of the devil i heard in the new currently airing arc the Sayan Race is making a comeback ......... well that is the biggest retcon as i remember, saiyan race is extinct, now they telling us there are other survivor ?? let's hope it will be a good arc.

[Phantom_999]

The power levels got screwed up the moment they introduced Golden Frieza. After that everything became ridiculous. And not ridiculous in terms of way overpowered, but in terms of they just don't make sense anymore.

Back in DBZ we saw Frieza power-up to 100% against SSJ Goku entry level and still Frieza stood no chance. Then in Super with 6 months of training if I remember correctly, Frieza not only that he could easily beat SSJ1, but SSJ2, SSJ3 and could stand toe-to-toe with SSJ Blue. A form that's beyond SSJ God.

Then we had Trunks powered-up to SSJ2 being really close to Goku SSJ3. And now with Black/Zamasu; Goku easily defeated Zamasu in that sparing match with at SSJ2 but then once Zamasu had an immortal body, Goku is struggling with SSJ Blue against the exact same opponent.

And then we had Trunks, who just like 4life said basically became False SSJ Blue and with the help of a Spirit Bomb gathered from maybe 100 people managed to defeat Zamasu combined with Goku's body.

Yeah yeah the power of hope and all that bs.

While Kid Buu need a Spirit Bomb gathered from everyone on Earth including Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Kid Trunks, and even that wasn't enough, you still needed Goku at max to defeat him. 

 

DBS started nicely but continued badly. Just like a Joss Whedon movie.

 

Yeah, Power levels getting out of hand aside, the story and fights are not even being consistent at this point. Well WAY before this point even.

[Namikaze Clan]

I mean, Trunks was arguably the protagonist of the Black Goku arc.

He deserved to be the one to finish Zamasu

[Frankie]

I mean, Trunks was arguably the protagonist of the Black Goku arc.

He deserved to be the one to finish Zamasu

It's not what happened, it's how it happened

[Namikaze Clan]

It's not what happened, it's how it happened

I mean yeah the trunks thing with the spirit sword was an asspull, but it really isn't the first one in DB.

At least they explained why Vegito was permanent which they never did when Vegito defused inside Buu.