346 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

I'm kind of in shock as to how bad this is.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I criticize Tetsuya Nomura for his asspullings but at least he wouldn't pair Kairi with Riku although that's better than SS.

[Suigetsu]

I can only laugh haha
Tiller how is NF right now? How are people taking this?

I am from there and now I am here right now, just how do you think.
Typical denial of NH claiming that NS never had development, SS saying something along the lines and revenge negs for disagreeing with their CANON stuff. Because that's what matters to them it seems.

Like it's usually one guy either neutral or NS vs 4 other users that are pro NH or SS.

I also feel bad for the SK, they are friendly but they get stomped and shunned, and they shun taka along with it too. :(

[Lady Lys]

Sorry about this double post guys, but I thought this thread was a more appropriate place to put my rant rather than the movie thread:

 

The degradation of the titular character's goals and interests are astounding. Never before have I read a piece of fiction where the main character was just thrown to the wayside in the last chapter, epilogue, and this farce of a movie. The facts are that it doesn't matter when Kishimoto decided on the final pairings. If there was some sort of progression towards the endgame pairings. The story would have been MUCH MORE digestible and the ending would have made sense. The red herrings that Kishi gave us are insulting to the characters he created and the relationships they had, Jiraiya/Tsunade, Obito/Rin, and most importantly Minato/Kushina. 
 
The travesty of this is that the writer of a series would go to extreme lengths to keep the fans guessing. An old friend of mine who happened to get in to Naruto the same time as me has a degree in English with a specialization in creative writing. He's currently aiming for a PhD in English. We happened to run into each other and caught up, one of our common interest were this manga and he too was shocked with the ending and he's not even a shipper at all He broached several topics, but one of the main ones we discussed was the artwork. I don't know how much depicting literal foreshadowing plays in Japanese culture but showing mirror panels EVERYWHERE would give an educated individual such as him a great sense where the story was headed...... NOPE. 
 
Another issue he had was with the whole "pale love" Naruto had for Sakura. He heavily criticized Kishi for showing the CPR scene. He said, and I quote, "The literal symbolicism of a girl holding a boy's heart in her hands means that his heart is devoted to her, the fact that she beats it for him just compounds that fact that she is his reason for living." While I thought that was pretty strong a statement I couldn't really deny it.
 
The artwork of this manga and the anime are completely counter intuitive to what Kishi wrote and/or planned. We both concluded that Kishi's writing skills should be called into question and any future works should be looked at with a grain of salt. A self respecting writer who should care for his fans has a duty to write a clear concise story that flows well so that his fans understand the story first and foremost. 
 
We also both agreed that if Kishi wasn't good at writing romance, he should have never delved so deep into it in the first place. Fact is he couldn't conclude the love triangle properly withing 700 chapters and 15 years of writing this manga. Using a movie to show how the romance developed for the MAIN CHARACTER further exacerbates this thought. Even now, we are getting hints that they are embarrassed drawing these "romantic scenes". Kishimoto and his team bit off more than they could chew and are now backtracking like nobody's business in order to make this all seem plausible. 
 
The Naruto fandom will probably only get a true answer of what really went through Kishimoto's head well after Part 3 has ended. Many writers such as JK Rowling, and Akira Toriyama have done so, explaining what they might have done differently or if they were indeed pressured to change the story to cater to the masses.

As much as I agree with your post, and I do, I don't care about explanations and retconnings or alternative endings. For all I care he can ride a bike naked while smashing cymbals and shouting 'sorry sorry, I'm so sorry' at the top of his lungs, I have no respect for him or his work.

This has crossed over the pathetic and has become grotesque. His depiction/beliefs/understanding of female characters (and of characters in general at this point) is kitten. 

He disgusts me at a very deep and humane level, not as an artist or as a man, but as a human being, and I'm being (for a change) extremely serious. 

Even if it's blatantly obvious that he has some psychological issues such as an apparent inferiority complex that is transposed in his manga, this is no excuse for anything he put in his finale, editors or not.

This manga is intended for younger audiences, children and young teens in particular, what is he going to teach them? Nothing, only bad and dangerous messages that children shouldn't be allowed to see.

So let him retcon all he wants, point is that he is a terrible person and he should be ashamed of himself every time he looks at his face in the mirror.

 

 

What are you talking about? There's plenty of excellent messages that can be taken from Naruto:

 

-treating people with respect and care is pointless

-selfishness is rewarded, selflessness punished

-if you know the right persons and/or are pretty enough, you can get off scott free even after multiple betrayals, murders, murder attempts and acts of international terrorism

-abuse is the most romantic thing in the world

-if you commit genocide, pointlessly torture your little brother's life and ruin his life everybody will suck your kitten and treat you like a literal saint

-work hard and never give up, you too can accomplish absolutely nothing, success is only for people who won the genetic lottery

-war and revenge are bad m'kay, except war ends up unitingthe world so it's good and revenge only means you'll be in a dark place for a bit and everything will be fixed with a half assed "sorry"

 

This. 

And apparently I'm a bad woman because I'm not in love with my first love anymore....BAD LYS, BAD BAD BAD LYS!!!

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

This. 

And apparently I'm a bad woman because I'm not in love with my first love anymore....BAD LYS, BAD BAD BAD LYS!!!

You terrible woman you!   

...I was torn between two boys as my first loves, I guess I should not move past Kindergarten love triangles. 

[Tiller]

But the movie came out before the parallel was confirmed, right? So what was the point of confirming it to sell the movie when the movie had already had its run in the theater and at the box office?

DVD sales and related items would be my guess. He knows that it was predominately NS that loved that film, and he knows why. So he played it up to not only continue to keep us reading and interested (and therefor buying the manga), but so we'd buy his RtN stuff as well, expecting it to amount to something.

[Lady Lys]

You terrible woman you!   

...I was torn between two boys as my first loves, I guess I should not move past Kindergarten love triangles. 

Yes yes! Apparently I'm a reprehensible slut!

 

I think I'll go back and find my 'one true love, the first' and stalk him until I make him submit. Otherwise there goes my reputation. 

[Tiller]

This, coupled with the interview posted on saiyanisland where he speaks with his editor, proves one thing: yes, NS was planned, and his editors more than likely changed his mind.

 

I mean, just listen to this quote...
Kishimoto: "When you get together with other manga artists you hear stuff like 'You shouldn't just accept everything your editor says, right?' And I'd be like 'That's true,' but the other artist would say, 'But you do everything he says!' It's true... [laughs]"

 

There's only one thing left I have to say now- Kishimoto, you are a terrible man for sending this message to your readers. For telling all of the innocent children around the world who look to your manga as an example and inspiration that this dynamic between Sasuke and Sakura, among all of the other awful things that happened in the ending of your story, is acceptable, and anything otherwise makes you a terrible person. Whatever happened to being able to change your destiny, to be free? Not only are you a hypocrite, but your main character turned out to be one as well. What a joke this whole thing turned out to be.

I think it's the other way around. I think those part 2 parts that we liked were there because his first editor was helping him.Guiding his hand sort to speak. I don't think it was till later editors that this nonsense started. There is a reason that things started falling a part after the Pain Arc.

[CloudMountainJuror]

I'm actually laughing right now. This is so ridiculously bad. I can't believe he said this. I can't believe this thought seriously went through his head.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Yes yes! Apparently I'm a reprehensible slut!

 

I think I'll go back and find my 'one true love, the first' and stalk him until I make him submit. Otherwise there goes my reputation. 

My reputation is irredeemable at this point    and I sure as hell ain't going back to those losers. They stole my snacks and put gum in my hair when I met a new guy. 

[Suigetsu]

So, does anyone know how the japanese are reacting to this? I assume that tomorrow hell will be unleashed, once the magazine it's avalibable to the main public.

[rocci]

my contempt for Kishimoto as a writer just grows which is sad because until the final chapters I would have said Naruto was a really great manga...
 
but he just spit on the ending

Sometimes, an ending could kill a (great) story.

[Lid]

It's like I'm Frank Grimes and Kishi is Homer Simpson.

 

I feel like such an idiot after going along with this, it's like one big joke. I'm waiting for Ashton Kutcher to come out with a camera crew on us and say we've been punked.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Good lord why does Kishi keep Fu**** up like this well I know I will burn or sell my Naruto stuff need the money to get better things that are not the ramberling of a crazed ass mad man who is on far too much drugs.

[Nar123]

So, does anyone know how the japanese are reacting to this? I assume that tomorrow hell will be unleashed, once the magazine it's avalibable to the main public.

 

I read somewhere in this forum that they weren' tvery happy about, they were saiyng things like

- What about Naruto? Is he a terrible man?

among other things...

Edited by Nar123, 21 November 2014 - 12:02 AM.

[Phantom_999]

So He's basically Saying that if he ever stabbed his wife It's a sign of his love and affection and that his wife is supposed to stay and take it.  Thank you so much for the lesson Kishi!!!! Men are supposed to kill/nearly kill their wives out of love!!!! They are supposed to abuse them emotionally and make death threats  and women should have no sense of personal well being and that moving on from an unhealthy and damaging first crush makes you a terrible person!!!!!!!!!!! *clap......... clap........... clap*

 

Anyone else want to claw their eyes out at this crap????

Edited by Phantom_999, 21 November 2014 - 12:42 AM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

So He's basically Saying that if he ever stabbed his wife It's a sign of his love and affection and that his wife is supposed to stay and take it.  Thank you so much for the lesson kishi!!!!. Men are supposed to kill/nearly kill their wives out of love!!!! They are supposed to abuse them emotionally and make death threats  and women should have no sense of personal well being and that moving on from and unhealthy and damaging first crush makes you a terrible person!!!!!!!!!!! *clap......... clap........... clap*

 

anyone else want to claw their eyes out at this crap????

Everyone, probably. 

[Sherry]

Hey guys, maybe the ending was purposedly made for continuation for Naruto part 3, where Sakura could die anytime when she quarreled with Sasuke, and Naruto could be a horrible man because Hinata couldn't keep him in line. There came broken families and the kids would have sad backgrounds, then Kishi could write something again like "I'll never give up" or else.

And for Naruto to learn how to be a good parent, he had to be a bad one, maybe that is.

Sorry this is sarcasm, because I don't understand Kishi..

[Phantom_999]

Here's a Song that expresses How I feel right now on the inside......................

 

 

BTW It's Offical. I'm Selling all my Naruto S**T now. To me, THIS makes everything I own of that series less than garbage. anyone know how to sell On Amazon, Ebay, or Kijiji?

Edited by Phantom_999, 21 November 2014 - 12:39 AM.

[Sedna]

So Kishimoto has intended for Hinata to be with Naruto for awhile? This is it, I'm done! Kishimoto is a total piece of crap. I absolutely hate him. Doesn't he have daughters? Would he be ok if his daughter got married to someone who tried to kill her? He's promoting domestic violence if you ask me. (He's trying to make Sakura the bad guy though.)