286 replies to this topic

[Inferno180]

I hope we do get to see Sasuke's conversation with the sage. We finally got confirmation or at least partial of it on what Naruto saw in his clash with Sasuke and that was Indra's presence after the longest time.  Sasuke's conversation with the Sage has chances of being shown even sooner than that actually.  I do believe it went quite differently from Naruto's.  The reason being he is Indra's reincarnation, and as such he shares Indra's views.  While Naruto gave his answer of knowing what it's like having friends and wants to protect them (as it reflects Ashura's view), Sasuke most likely gave an answer along the lines of "I alone will be the one to guide the people down the right path, as the one who is gifted with power."  Also, Hogaromo's response to Sasuke's answer really wasn't who one would respond Naruto's answer.  His facial expression also didn't look like he approved, unlike with Naruto.  However, the situation calls to give both of them power. What it is?  We'll see.

 

I can compare this with Sasuke deciding to fight in the war to protect the village.  Many assumed he turned "good", but it was more complicated than that.  The same reasoning is going on with Sasuke's conversation with the sage, when we were shown only the end of it.

 

I'm interested to see what happens back in the otherworld. Apparently, the transfer was a success, as such Obito and Black Zetsu will die.  Maybe Obito will have enough strength to send Naruto and Sakura back, or he can't and passes out immediately.  By the time Naruto wakes up, Obito could already be dead.  It will be bit sad to see, but the main issue is Naruto and Sakura will be basically stranded in the otherworld.  How are the supposed to get back, when the person who can transport them is dead?  Also, how will the other Rinnegan make it to Madara now, because we all know he's going to get it.

 

I think what Naruto's "good friends" isn't meant to be taken so seriously.  Naruto hasn't forgotten where he and Sasuke stand currently.  I believe he was just reassuring the Sage that he will do something about making sure he and Sasuke don't end up the same as the previous transmigrations.  It may sound cheesy, but to become good friends, one has to be a good friend first to the other person, and Naruto's been one for the longest time, and doesn't intend to give up on Sasuke yet.  

 

 

I don't want to believe Sakura will stagnate here either, and continue growing.  We just have to keep following the story, and hope something happens with her.  Well, we still have what I believe a more concrete parallel with Kushina coming at the least.  As much as Kishimoto uses foreshadow and parallels, to think 631 will be the only instance is unlikely.

 

Given Sakura's past development, everything is still in line, I mean kishi set up the Kushina foreshadow before it was "attributed' to Sakura in 631. I mean we had the clue of Kushinas past with Minato at the time, 631 came, we know what that did. Sakura not wanting naruto to die and wanting to make his dream come true, kinda fits with the whole thing some like itachi said with 'Kushina made Minato into the hokage" I mean if anything, the whole NS scene we may get soon is just another part of this long term development like one thing so many people, in our own fandom even, the thing they didnt consider is this:

 

How will the aspect of nearly losing naruto impact sakura from this point on espcially when the final fight comes in later against sasuke? To some would say, this is only a taste of her worst fear, I mean she will be relieved when naruto wakes up after the worst case scenario of him losing yang kurama came to pass.

 

The chapter still hasn't done anything to NS, its just like when NH fans threw the stuff like Kushina kushina arguements at us, nothing changed the fact and still nothing changes the fact that sakura is still the only girl compared as like Kushina. Even if hinata was linked to Kayuga, I don't see anything positive about that because, well its not that its hard to begin with, its just that Kagyua was a villian, she did all the stuff Madara is trying to do but she was somehow stopped or she ceased it on her own accord. It would be even harder for some new problem to have arisen and Hinata suddenly being the reincarnation to make things right, see how that doesnt even make sense?

[harry4e]

 

But we already saw panels of Naruto and Sasuke starting to wake up, and the one with Naruto shows that no hand is inside him anymore. So my guess is that while Obito inserted dark Kurama into Naruto that Sakura patched him up.

 

But they haven't woken up yet, The first person Naruto will see is Sakura and the first person Sasuke will see is Karin, that is significant I think, Kishi chose those two to be the face they wake up to, Naruto will notice Sakura and thank her for saving his life, and maybe we'll get more who knows...I doubt Kishi would go to the trouble of showing the two girls reactions when the two were dying and not show the reactions after they were saved.

 

I don't think Kaguya having the Buyakyan really leads any support to NaruHina, no more than SasuHina, if anything it suggests that it probably isn't a good idea to mix the Byakuyan with the Chakra of Ashura, we could end up with another child with a god complex. Think about it, The chakra of the younger brother, the chakra of all the Nine tailed beast, and the precurer of the Sharingan all mixed together in one child...Isn't that potentially creating the next child with the power of the Rinnigan? Not a good idea if they want peace to be a long term thing.

[Strangelove]

is that me or  Hagoromo has pinky hair ?!

 

Probably age...he had red hair, which was passed down to his descendants in the Senju and Uchiha clan.

 

Thorough reading, and I have come to the final conclusion that the Uzumaki clan were either direct descendants of Kaguya, or of Hagoromo unnamed brother. Who probably developed the sealing technique to seal the tree.

 

Now it is whether history will repeat itself. Sasuke has clearly accepted his final battle with Naruto to be his last.

 

Other than that, my view on Madara, a hunger for power, he was not happy when he acquired the sharingan, he wasn't any less satisfied when he acquired the Eternal Sharingan, even less so when he acquired the Rinnegan, and now that he has acquired the half of the Juubi he will want more. See how he spoke the Black Zetsu, to bring him the other half of Kurama, as if he wasn't powerful enough.

 

Maybe he will try to seek for the other half of the Juubi's power, but even so that will not be enough, he will seek to eat the fruit, but even so that will not be enough. by the way...this is what I predict Sasuke will try to do, in order to acquire more power. The 9 Bijuus will be free, and Sasuke will try to hunt them down.

Edited by Strangelove, 02 April 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[TyranntX]

And I thought the last chapter was confusing. oh well maybe NEXT chapter naruto will wake up AND THEN we can enjoy the NS recovery scene. ( to be honest I really don't see how any of this ties in with Sakura, much less Hinata.)

[LadyGT]

Sasuke gets Rinnegan and Naruto the pets.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sasuke gets Rinnegan and Naruto the pets.

Wait, I heard that to obtain Rinnengan, you got wait a very long time, even obtaining the requirements. That's why we see Madara in old age when he finally got it. The problem is well time.

[六道仙人]

other crazy theory from you know who: Mito had the byakugan.

 

an uzumaki LOL

[Nate River]

other crazy theory from you know who: Mito had the byakugan.
 
an uzumaki LOL

Sure, why not. Naruto and Sasuke are pretty much tied to everything that has mattered in the history everything. Why not this, too? Maybe Sasuke or Naruto will whip out Ice Mirror's before all is said and done.

[六道仙人]

sarcasm?

[Nate River]

sarcasm?

I'm half-serious. It wouldn't phase me considering what has come before it, it's just that Naruto v. Sasuke is being set up as if the whole universe depended upon it. The personal reasons and relationship for it happening are more interesting that what it's being turned into.

[HauntedCake]

Even tho Naruto vs sasuke is being set up , we all know kishi is going to chicken out and redeem sasuke.

[luffyq1]

Even tho Naruto vs sasuke is being set up , we all know kishi is going to chicken out and redeem sasuke.

True. No prison time for Sasuke. He'll be relaxing in his 5 star Konoha apartment eating the best dishes they have to offer. He'll be treated like a prince for killing Samurai who probably had family back home.

Edited by luffyq1, 02 April 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[Nate River]

It won't be chickening out because that redemption is exactly what this is setting up. Generation after generation, these incarnations have fought and this generation is where that will be solved,

[HauntedCake]

but still, Sasuke kills people but it's ok because hes Sasuke-KUN and hes under Narutos protection.

[luffyq1]

but still, Sasuke kills people but it's ok because hes Sasuke-KUN and hes under Narutos protection.

That parallelism is basically a get out of jail free card. If Naruto is a hero, so is Sasuke.

 

Ugh

Edited by luffyq1, 02 April 2014 - 07:05 PM.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

 

Given Sakura's past development, everything is still in line, I mean kishi set up the Kushina foreshadow before it was "attributed' to Sakura in 631. I mean we had the clue of Kushinas past with Minato at the time, 631 came, we know what that did. Sakura not wanting naruto to die and wanting to make his dream come true, kinda fits with the whole thing some like itachi said with 'Kushina made Minato into the hokage" I mean if anything, the whole NS scene we may get soon is just another part of this long term development like one thing so many people, in our own fandom even, the thing they didnt consider is this:

 

How will the aspect of nearly losing naruto impact sakura from this point on espcially when the final fight comes in later against sasuke? To some would say, this is only a taste of her worst fear, I mean she will be relieved when naruto wakes up after the worst case scenario of him losing yang kurama came to pass.

 

The chapter still hasn't done anything to NS, its just like when NH fans threw the stuff like Kushina kushina arguements at us, nothing changed the fact and still nothing changes the fact that sakura is still the only girl compared as like Kushina. Even if hinata was linked to Kayuga, I don't see anything positive about that because, well its not that its hard to begin with, its just that Kagyua was a villian, she did all the stuff Madara is trying to do but she was somehow stopped or she ceased it on her own accord. It would be even harder for some new problem to have arisen and Hinata suddenly being the reincarnation to make things right, see how that doesnt even make sense?

 

Good point, I never really considered how this will affect Sakura in the long term trauma-wise.  No, I did, but just thought how it wouldn't have as much impact if Naruto had actually died and had to be revived.  Madara is still at large, and then there is the fight with Sasuke in which according Naruto, neither are going to live from.  Knowing Naruto, he'll put himself in danger again to stop the current crisis, and then again, when Sasuke starts to act.  No, it's not hard to imagine that she will fear for him even more, because this was truly the first case, in which Naruto was close to dying (that Sakura knows of).  It doesn't help that she already worries to death that he constantly pushes himself past his limits.  Naruto is well regarded, and is heavily relied upon to the point many shinobi can consider just leaving things to him.  It's just a natural reaction when one has shown signs of being a "chosen one".  However, that can become a problem later, in which if he's busy protecting you, who's protecting him?

[HauntedCake]

That parallelism is basically a get out of jail free card. If Naruto is a hero, so is Sasuke.

 

Ugh

 

Yeah. I HATE sasuke and how kishi has portrayed this character. Sasuke gets everything iven to him through asspulls and 0 effort. Then he can commit any crime and get away with it. How pathetic

[Inferno180]

But this is what I mean, when people say one thing will happen, they need to consider how could their theory fit into the contest if the greater following event.

I'm talking about how say the next major event in the current arc is guys death, we may or may not see naruto and Sasuke until after this event, not to mention what happened to bee. I mean Madara looked jacked up but guy is about to end his last day of youth by using the night moth as the editors note hints. But in the long run, I'm talking about again, besides the fact that characters need a reason for their actions in the current events, it's how do they fit in during the present situation?

I mean with all the focus on naruto and Sasuke, yes they will fight and defeat Madara. But what I'm taking about is, in any story when characters are used, ideally it should be for the sole reason one part their role and other parts their abilities. I mean why did we just have a situation with sakura trying to help naruto? She was his friend, a medic, simple. It was these reasons she was trying to keep him alive by manually pumping his heart and having those flashbacks of him wanting to be hokage and vowing to save him.

Yet many fans referred to how there will still be no possible relationship between naruto and sakura, that it's just completely illogical to claim this while saying nh will occur despite hinata not having much development and SS with Sasuke just never even having feelings for sakura and Sakura's development and changed views regarding naruto and Sasuke. It's basically just have sakura go to Sasuke without regard of any of the dynamics, any of the growth, only gone as friends with naruto, basically sakura just did stuff and all the junk Sasuke pulled didn't really even matter, kinda like how a the bioshock infinite story feels, that everything we just did, really didn't make a difference in the end and all the stuff I went through really didn't matter. It would essentially be Sakura's growth amounted to nothing if she is back to just loving Sasuke after all his junk, not learning about say, what you think you care for and what you really care for. I mean how many times have we seen this issue of growing up and changing stuff in the naruto series? How is it people can accept Sasuke will change no questions asked, yet they say sakura is just stuck on Sasuke and naruto gave up on sakura despite never giving up? That's what I mean

It's like look at 631, before it came out, we said because minato landed in front of naruto and sakura, some kushina event could occur, and it did and people basically rioted. Then others said that minato would meet hinata and change his mind, in all respect, he could have met hinata, but that wouldn't have changed his mind, nessessarily. Likewise then we got outrageous claims of an edo tensei Kushina and minato knows squat about naruto,see how these didn't exactly fit the claim?

Sakura getting a powerup was a midway one, but it happened, we always expected her to get what tsunade has used and she did. She got the seal, more power, and summoning slugs.

Now in the current time,new know why naruto and Sasuke are fighting Madara, major and minor reasons, relating between just their own individual reasons but also those from history, really Kishi has brought a culmination of all things forward with this. But even then we get a mess of predictions saying how someone like sakura or hinata gets the fruit, and most recently hinata being like kaguya. Exactly how do these events if they were to happen make sense? I mean I like sakura but I said Kishi made enough of an impact with the relative events with tsunade,rin, Kushina, and the seal with mito. But not kaguya, I mean hagomoro said kaguya used the sharigan and byakugan to put people under the infitine tysukomi. He said kaguya was evil, all Madara is doing is like what she did so I don't really expect that hinata somehow had a subconiously meeting with hagomoro or kaguya herself with the notion of being her reincarnation. Or that she is somehow the good reincarnation of kaguya. Not to mention, after so much emphasis on naruto and Sasuke. Senju and uchiha, the sage, tailed beasts, and etc. hinata has no measure in the mix of this stuff even with the byukugan present on kaguya. I mean do we expect a fight of naruto and Sasuke vs Madara, or somehow naruto, Sasuke, and hinata vs Madara? Despite how little hinata has been used, see the bigger line of things, just how out of place this is? Like the claims which end up resulting in Sakura's character being ruined, it's just again one part kishis writing, another part hinatas role as a character, when fans are making claims, they don't understand what they are asking for. Asking for hinata to be the reincarnation of kaguya is somehow implying she will have a sudden randomized event despite not much else, I mean we see kaguya as a villian now, but hinata is some harmless peaceful girl,so she suddenly becomes evil or does some kinda redemption? See how confusing and messed up this is? It makes no sense! I mean can't we compare Madara more, doing the evil deeds like she did? Couldn't we compare uchiha too to kaguya?

Oh god, just god this recent chapter made nh fans go even crazier with hinata is like a goddess theory. Oh my lord, this wasn't event pairing related and people had to bring it like that. I mean in the long run, people don't think say, how will could this event even if hinata did get a powerup, even if it was the fruit, impact the other stuff Kishi has written like sakura being like kushina or the mistrust to Sasuke? It's like if they were going to be nothing, resulting in no development for sakura in either way in regards to a future story plot or in regards to naruto and Sasuke, then why not just get on with it and make naruto go for hinata? It makes no sense in times like that, you can throw the book out the window anytime, but you still need reason for who does stuff in stories and why they do it along with why certain events happen to others,

This is what I mean, fans say so and so will occur or is like this and that or will happen but nothing makes sense unless it is kept to the current bounds of the story. I mean this is why it makes nonsense, are any of you honestly expecting hinata to have some role in the current situation when for so long it's been focused that naruto and sasuke will take down Madara. I mean what does this have against hinata being like kaguya actually being a legitamte claim? Well kaguya was evil like Madara is redoing her evil deeds, kaguya had a sharigan so we can use any uchiha claims as well, kaguya was evil, not some innocent girl like hinata. People feared her, the fact that hinata could even contact the spirit of hagoromo or kaguya herself is even more puzzling since we know naruto and Sasuke had the sages sons chakra which lasted for generations after their deaths, kaguya being evil would be even stranger if she made contact with hinata being vastly different in personality but also would hinata be some good reincarnation? That's just strange. Not to mention the longest story reasons of how long the byukugan was left out of everything, hinata having no importance to the main plot, not even in regards to Sasuke. Just how does hinata ever mix with Sasuke? That's problem number 1 for hinata, she has never been involved with any Sasuke oriented interaction so what is her business in one of the most centric naruto and Sasuke based issues in facing Madara? It's simple. Of it didn't start back then with any major importance with the hygua in this centuries old senju, uchiha, sage, jubbi situation, it's not going to now, and aside from reincarnation stuff and vast differences in hinata and kaguya, being more like Madara as hagoromo said even though it's not a parallel, Madara is closer to being like kaguya in any sense and it's going to take much more than kaguya simply having the byakugan to render her somehow important even remotely in this situation.

Maybe I went overboard here but it's just given me a headache how any and all fans do this, make claims that just don't make sense or fit the long running events. Maybe it's good the guys woke up and I doubt hinata even fell unconscious some fodder ninja was right there to pick her up, she should be fine, not asleep, I mean if Kishi seriously did do some strange kaguya hinata link,nit would just be an even worse situation than 615, I mean yeah neji died but just inserting hinata into a random situation, especially now with a huge naruto and Sasuke focused event about to start, just no, no way in hell would it make sense now or in the future, it would be so forced to make hinata and kaguya similar,nit would be more forceful than actually nh itself. I mean we may have a ns moment coming up and naruto waking up and sakura having a positive reaction to this rendering a ns moment is completely within reason to expect while naruto also talks to obito, but hinata like kaguya, it's as I said, people can claim this but it just doesn't make sense in the long run.

[James S Cassidy]

So here is a theory I have to explain some things.

"Didn't the rinnegan create the Byakugan and Sharingan are do we now have to say they came first."
-Neither and yet both. The Ten-tails, which is the tree, had what appeared to be a cross between the Sharingan and Rinnegan. This means it already has such a thing and the tree has existed even before that. When Kaguya ate the fruit, she didn't have any powers before it, but all her abilities were enhanced thanks to it and she gained the Byakugan and Sharingan. In essence, they are the Rinnegan's "children" and very similar to how the whole "brotherly fighting" this manga seems to have, both eyes have been in huge competition with each other. Now the fruit did more than just give Kaguya power. She literally took a part of the tree into herself which means it could have altered genetics as well. Remember how the Kurama inside Kushina didn't give her whiskers, but Naruto was born with whiskers cause he was altered by Kurama as well? Same principle here. Hagoromo got the Rinnegan due to the direct alteration to his genetics by his mother taking in the fruit.

Also, notice how the father is never mentioned? Would be interesting if the two sons were born purely from chakra from the mother similar to how Anakin was born purely from the force. They were literally made up of the chakra and explains why they were so powerful.

"What happened to Hagoromo's brother?"
-Well if my reasoning is sound, I would say he made the Hyuga clan which would makes sense if he inherited the Byakugan. This would allow the tale to be true for both eyes and explain where exactly the Hyuga's came from. Maybe that was his brother's name too. Hyuga Ōtsutsuki.

"Hinata is now truly a goddess cause of the Byakugan and it's connection."
-So what does that make the other Hyuga like Neji? Remember, it as a whole clan, not just one person. Speaking of which, what does that make the Uchiha with the Sharingan? Remember, the Rinnegan can ONLY be achieve by combining the reincarnations blood of the two brothers. Descendants don't seem to count and there seems to be a very clear difference between descendants and reincarnations.

"Oh great, now Sasuke is the part that bring peace? Didn't he want to do it his own way?"
- Maybe that is the point. He is not the cause of the peace, but a part of the machine that brings forth the peace. Sasuke represents darkness and the stuff that brings chaos. Naruto, the chosen one, is supposed to bring end to that chaos. The fight they are going to have means that the winner will bring peace in one way or another and it is true. Sasuke will bring peace through enslavement, but Naruto will bring peace through unity. The point is is that enslavement is bad and unity is good, but Sasuke HAS to play a part because that is how it has to be. So yes, Sasuke's involvement will bring peace, but he is not a hero. He is just the cog in the machine with Naruto being the one that turns the cranks it. Understand?

"Sasuke can get the Rinnegan now."
- So can Naruto now as well seeing how he is also the reincarnation of one of the brothers as explained above.

Nate, you mentioned something about Hagoromo and getting the message wrong by other people.
-Well, there is a similar thing that happens in the real world a lot. Religion. Now I hate to go into this kind of topic, but really this reminds me of religion so much in a certain aspect. It's just Jesus coming back and telling all the Christians: "What are you doing? This isn't what I had in mind at all." It's this idea that a person creates a faith or a religion to bring people together, not separate them, but it is not the person starting the religion that is the problem. It is the people that follow who decide that they are better because they believe their faith is more sound or their faith is the true version.

The religion preached love and honor to thy neighbor, but the people never follow those set guidelines and instead hates everyone else. I don't think that makes the religions wrong, but rather some of the followers ignorant to the true meaning behind it. Even my own religion and faith has those kind of people so don't think I am singling any religion out here.

Or if you want to play it more safe, look at the Naruto fanbases. Hinata is seen much higher by her own fanbase and they woreship her. When everyone else sees a different reality, we hate her more because her fans over inflate her status and importance.
 

That's why i said earlier that Naruto and Sasuke bromance screwed the story.
It's just disgusting Sasuke is getting his redemption being handed to him without even working for that.

 

 

Salvation....not redemption. Redemption applies Sasuke turned evil and did bad things, but since all of his actions can be hand-waved away by technicalities there is nothing to redeem from. You have to cross the line, not straddle it.
 

He's not even the worst written character in this series.

Karin holds that torch and it's not even close. When characters start turning his personal problems and tragedies into Tonight Show Monologue's (and that just when he's not ignoring them entirely), then maybe I will agree. At least they get taken seriously. He's characterization is problematic and inconsistent. Her's is downright offensive. Besides many the problems I see in his characterization are present with Obito as well. So I'd put them in the same territory.

I think Sasuke biggest issue is the "have my cake and eat it too strategy." He wants to set up these parallels with other villains and make certain to portray revenge as negative, so Sasuke wanders into the dark, but he also wants Sasuke to be accepted back into the fold by the end so he can't be too bad lest it generate a massive (and legit) what the hell just happened moment? So, we get this kid glove treated, meandering character.

And the rest is pretty much everything related to Team Not Seven. After all the noise about how Naruto an Sakura were a hindrance he creates them in short order. Yeah, makes total sense.
 

Except Karin has one thing Sasuke doesn't...conviction. How many times has Sasuke "changed his mind" or was easily "distracted" from his goal that he claimed would "never be wavered?" This guy makes up more excuses than Hamlet. Hell, Hamlet at LEAST finally did it in the end. Sasuke just changes his mind too much too easily all because "my brother showed up." Itachi tells him he wanted him to live a good life in Konoha and not have to face revenge hoping to take all the hatred into himself. Not only does this plan mess up, but Sasuke seems to listen to Itachi, yet doesn't listen to him at the same time. "I am doing this all for Itachi and want revenge for him," but doesn't itachi not want revenge and actually loved Konoha? So, you should love Konoha too and know that Danzo was the real reason why this stuff happened or how about the fact that the Uchiha were staging a mutiny and was going to burn down Konoha anyway?

Plus Karin is just a side-character like Hinata. If we are going to judge based on that, wouldn't Hinata be worse seeing how Hinata just become pathetic at times? Hinata who is reduced to nothing more than a pairing fodder character? Sasuke is supposed to be Naruto's greatest challenge in the end and yet here it is like a villain that purposely says "I am villain, but I don't want to be the villain, but I have to be because it is my role."

You want to talk about Karin forgetting all that, yet Sasuke seems to forget even more things that are even more obvious and then claims he is doing it for those very reasons.

What's even worse is the whole "Uchiha love too much" crap excuse Tobirama gives just to explain why Sasuke straddles a line. You're right, responsibility and accountability get thrown out the window when it comes to Sasuke because supposedly all his "evil deeds" is merely just an STD in his genetics.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 April 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[Gojira]

Madara actually somehow seems less like an kitten than Sasuke...and he's the villain....I wish Madara would stick around

 

I mean he's just as self-centered as Sasuke but atleast he's aware of it...hell he actually has some pretty good one-liners. As oppose to Sasuke just being written as Hiei, if Hiei just continue to do whatever the kitten he wanted at the cost of innocent people's lives and get away with it scott free.

 

I'm at the very least have him give some regret for what he's done Kishi just because he's the "silent shonen rival" character doesn't mean he can't show a human side.