441 replies to this topic

[Weltall]

These latest chapters have been a breath of fresh air, no friendship crap, no whining, no meaningless talks and above all no Rin just action, at the expense of Kishi's own rules, but who cares it's much more enjoyable to read than the borefest we had the last 60 chapters

Again, you're relying too much on the "benefit of the doubt" when it was made clear what Naruto was referring to his own strength as he was receiving the means to fully unlock Kurama's power. Naruto obviously has a grasp of Sasuke's techniques and even when you judge it strictly by feats there's nothing in his arsenal that could handle Amaterasu or genjutsu.
Naruto was depending on Kurama to go up against Sasuke. That attack strategy was rendered void in just a few panels at the end of the last chapter so he hasn't had an opportunity to account for the losses and refine his other skills to somehow compensate for the decrease in power.
 

Again, it was a matter of having insufficient power compared to Sasuke. Emotions didn't play into his responce. They were just an afterthought concerning the matter of his redemption.
 

 
What evidence from the manga did you use to arrive at this conclusion? As far as Naruto was concerned, he wasn't aware of EMS at the time. In fact, none of the Uchiha besides Madara, Tobi, and Itachi knew of its existence. Sasuke had only just learned of the possibility of a permanent Sharingan when Itachi mentioned it to him during their battle.
Given Naruto's reaction to MS and its techniques, he was likely referring to regular MS.
 

When has Naruto has ever been known for being cautious? He's a fearless, headstrong idiot who jumps into the fray without a moment's notice. Frequently he doesn't take into account what his opponent is capable of (FRS against Nagato when he understood that ninjutsu was useless against HGR). For him to express any serious concern about his opponent's techniques isn't commonplace. He must have a grasp of the nature of Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu (both of which can't be nullified without meeting certain conditions or having particular techniques) if he was willing to provide special attention to Itachi when he used them.
 

And I don't understand why you're so adamant in trying to deflect the context of Naruto's words to mean something that they don't.
We have the panel evidence and the quotes to substantiate that Naruto was referring to his power and abilities. This is sounding more and more like you're grasping at straws. Even Darkrest seems to agree with me about what Naruto meant.

Naruto wanted Kurama's power to defeat Sasuke and Sasuke wanted Itachi's eyes just so he could defeat Naruto while prior to his meeting with Naruto he always refused to take Itachi's eyes, and for Sasuke to make such a drastic decision he must have realized MS alone wouldn't be enough, . It's perfectly reasonable to accept Naruto's words for what they are but at the same time you can't ignore Sasuke's own words and reactions, it works both ways both tought they wouldn't be strong enough to defeat the other one without a power up.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

These latest chapters have been a breath of fresh air, no friendship crap, no whining, no meaningless talks and above all no Rin just action, at the expense of Kishi's own rules, but who cares it's much more enjoyable to read than the borefest we had the last 60 chapters Naruto wanted Kurama's power to defeat Sasuke and Sasuke wanted Itachi's eyes just so he could defeat Naruto while prior to his meeting with Naruto he always refused to take Itachi's eyes, and for Sasuke to make such a drastic decision he must have realized MS alone wouldn't be enough, . It's perfectly reasonable to accept Naruto's words for what they are but at the same time you can't ignore Sasuke's own words and reactions, it works both ways both tought they wouldn't be strong enough to defeat the other one without a power up.

About Kurama, Naruto is a jinchuuriki and Kurama's power is his own power despite the fandom disagreeing with it, Naruto needed to control this power to be able to defeat Sasuke, he knew that Sasuke would get a powerup to get stronger and he realized he need it to beat him, and could not allow himself any longer to keep running away from his jinchuuriki's fate, it's stated on the manga.
 
The only thing that Sasuke implied with that words is that he wanted to destroy Naruto with his max power, the EMS was the last power up he knew about.
 


Agora Lidem com isso.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 December 2013 - 03:19 PM.

[Weltall]

About Kurama, Naruto is a jinchuuriki and Kurama's power is his own power despite the fandom disagreeing with it, Naruto needed to control this power to be able to defeat Sasuke, he knew that Sasuke would get a powerup to get stronger and he realized he need it to beat him, and could not allow himself any longer to keep running away from his jinchuuriki's fate, it's stated on the manga.
 
He wanted to beat Naruto with all his power crushing him, he was already stronger but he wanted to humiliate Naruto with the EMS.
he didnt wanted to just crush Naruto but also his ideas with an absurd power, Naruto surpassed Sasuke and EMS Sasuke with Kurama mode.

how did he know Sasuke would get a power up ? Where is it stated ?
Where was it stated that Sasuke was stronger than Naruto ? All I see is speculation because Naruto said he needed Kurama's power to help him while you guys ignore Sasuke's reaction, if Sasuke really could defeat SM Naruto with just his MS he would have done it and kept his words and not take Itachi's eyes but something made him change his mind and it's not a coincidence he changed his mind just after his encounter with Naruto, context is important. Besides Naruto held his ground against Pain I don't see how he wouldn't be able to fight against a much less stronger opponent than Pain.
If you guys want to believe Sasuke was stronger than Naruto go on but nothing in the manga implies such thing. Personally I do believe that SM Naruto = MS Sasuke it makes sense from a plot perspective and by judging both characters' reactions to each other, nothing implies one is stronger and certainly not one sentence taken out of context or feats which are totally inconsistent from chapter to chapter.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

how did he know Sasuke would get a power up ? Where is it stated ?
Where was it stated that Sasuke was stronger than Naruto ? All I see is speculation because Naruto said he needed Kurama's power to help him while you guys ignore Sasuke's reaction, if Sasuke really could defeat SM Naruto with just his MS he would have done it and kept his words and not take Itachi's eyes but something made him change his mind and it's not a coincidence he changed his mind just after his encounter with Naruto, context is important. Besides Naruto held his ground against Pain I don't see how he wouldn't be able to fight against a much less stronger opponent than Pain.
If you guys want to believe Sasuke was stronger than Naruto go on but nothing in the manga implies such thing. Personally I do believe that SM Naruto = MS Sasuke it makes sense from a plot perspective and by judging both characters' reactions to each other, nothing implies one is stronger and certainly not one sentence taken out of context or feats which are totally inconsistent from chapter to chapter.

manga facts

There's no arguments against facts.
Naruto stated that he was weaker than Sasuke and there no discussion or debate over it.
And Sasuke only stated he wanted to beat Naruto at his max power to reject everything he stands for.
It's clear on the manga that Naruto was weaker than Sasuke and Sasuke wanted to have his max power to reject Naruto's beliefs, why keep arguing over it?
It's illogic to argue over manga facts.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 December 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

manga facts

There's no arguments against facts.
Naruto stated that he was weaker than Sasuke and there no discussion or debate over it.
And Sasuke only stated he wanted to beat Naruto at his max power to reject everything he stands for.
It's clear on the manga that Naruto was weaker than Sasuke and Sasuke wanted to have his max power to reject Naruto's beliefs, why keep arguing over it?
It's illogic to argue over manga facts.

 

My problem with people saying "I am stronger and or weaker than this person" is are they really stronger or weaker or is that their ego talking? My problem with Sasuke's power is that he says that he is stronger and such, but really has Sasuke shown such a power? Naruto with his power and Kurama was able to take on all tailed beast with little effort, but Sasuke could barely fight one of them.

So forgive me if I find it hard to believe that Naruto is truly weaker than Sasuke. Maybe he is now sans Kurama's power, but if Naruto is just as strong as Sasuke without Kurama's power, what does that say with Kurama's power added?

I can't go just by word of mouth anymore when it comes to people's power levels nor by power scaling because if Dragonball taught us anything it is that power levels are meaningless and people rely on them too much underestimating their opponent.

[tricksie]

@Atheck

 

Look, you have an opinion and I know you'll defend it as much as you want because that's how you are, but you're not going to change how I see it no matter how many paragraphs you want to write.

 

How about you let it go because you're really not going to get anywhere with this. I see it differently, and I accept that you don't share my views, so how about you just accept I don't share yours?

 

I was never interested in turning this into a contest of "let's see who's right", so I hope you don't go to that road either.

 

Nicely put. Respect is the key to good debate. Not who has the last word. 

 

So some bad news coming out of jump festa, from the naruto Panal,

Nothing pairing oriented but this is the sad news, Kishi doesn't know how Madara will be defeated yet. So this may be fairly long.

 

 

You know, I read that too, and I wonder if it's entirely true. (Of course there'd be no way of knowing....) But I wonder if it's something he says to keep people guessing and to put off pressing questions. If he just says he's as befuddled as the fans, he sidesteps all of that. People won't ask him leading questions, and he won't inadvertently spoil anything. 

[Cherry-Bloss93]

So... Since Naruto lost Kurama, is he going to be in the same condition that his mom was in when she had Kurama extracted from her?

[BakeNeko-Chan]

To me, it's about how everything sets up and make the purpose clear, but the thing is we have to wait for that impact to arrive. It's kind of like Death Note where you don't understand at one point why are we seeing this piece or that, only when the conclusion draws near, all of them make sense. Bits and pieces just waiting to join up. Once again, Kishi is closing every tiny fiber pieces in which this case is Shukaku. Seriously, if Naruto goes home, I expect a history on how ramen shop was made in Kohona.

 

For me, it's not really an issue of waiting for everything to make sense, so much of the stuff Kishimoto has written don't seem to serve any purpose at all, like the history of Shukaku, I don't feel it was truly important in the grand scheme, nor was it some significant piece of a puzzle waiting to be filled. Basically, I feel that Kishimoto often uses these little 'history lessons' to fill space, and I find myself feeling this way more and more, since there really doesn't seem to be any real course of action that Kishi has set out right now and that's why this battle just keeps going on and on while he tries to figure it out. Maybe that's not what's happening, I can't read Kishi's mind after all, but I certainly feels that way.

 

I guess I'm just becoming a little tried, tried of overpowered characters and back and forth battles, and tried of a story that has become completely dictated by plot rather than the characters and their actions to drive the story, right now the whole story has become tiresome and dull, and the elements of the manga I enjoyed have pretty much disappeared. Yet, I still keep reading, maybe because I haven't completely given up that it will get better eventually. Or maybe it's just habit.

[sushi.]

Sasuke was stronger than Naruto in the beginning of Shippuden. Naruto and Kakashi had a discussion about it in the hospital, that was the reason Naruto trained to get stronger. When he cut the leaves.

 

But he might have had the upper hand since then.

 

btw; darkrerst, just because Naruto said he couldn't defeat Sasuke around Kage Summit time doesn't mean he was weaker. For all we know, Naruto could've meant that they were equal.

Edited by sushi., 26 December 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[Weltall]

manga facts

There's no arguments against facts.Naruto stated that he was weaker than Sasuke and there no discussion or debate over it, it's like chapter 3 when Naruto said he loved Sakura and even now there people rejecting it.It's clear on the manga that Naruto was weaker than Sasuke, why keep arguing over it?Case Closed, now move on.

Sadly for you there's not one translation for this part and many others imply a different meaning so until you can provide a raw and a perfect translation it means nothing but it doesn't really matter either way because all we have to do is to look at the context there (something you seem to miss a lot) : Neji and Kiba are talking about an almost blind exhausted without chakra and hurt Sasuke to which Naruto answers that he can't defeat him, so if for you Naruto is weaker than a blind exhausted and without chakra Sasuke I am glad that you and me dont see things the same way. You dont see how this panel doesn't make sense if you take it at face value and without any context.


Now enlighten me please how does this imply Naruto is inferior to Sasuke ? Naruto said he can't defeat Sasuke but he never said Sasuke could defeat him, since you like facts here are facts for you : During the team 7 reunion and the NaruSasu convo Naruto said that if they fought him and Sasuke would BOTH die implying they are equal.
So please explain me which one is true ? That they would both die in a fight or that Naruto can't defeat a blind injured Sasuke ? Both are facts following your brilliant logic so why do they contradict each other ?

Edited by Weltall, 26 December 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Sadly for you there's not one translation for this part and many others imply a different meaning so until you can provide a raw and a perfect translation it means nothing but it doesn't really matter either way because all we have to do is to look at the context there (something you seem to miss a lot) : Neji and Kiba are talking about an almost blind exhausted without chakra and hurt Sasuke to which Naruto answers that he can't defeat him, so if for you Naruto is weaker than a blind exhausted and without chakra Sasuke I am glad that you and me don’t see things the same way. You don’t see how this panel doesn't make sense if you take it at face value and without any context.


Now enlighten me please how does this imply Naruto is inferior to Sasuke ? Naruto said he can't defeat Sasuke but he never said Sasuke could defeat him, since you like facts here are facts for you : During the team 7 reunion and the NaruSasu convo Naruto said that if they fought him and Sasuke would BOTH die implying they are both equal.
So please explain me which one is true ? That they would both die in a fight or that Naruto can't defeat a blind injured Sasuke ? Both are facts following your brilliant logic so why do they contradict each other ?

Funny thought you talk about context and totally disregard Naruto's context when he said "i cant beat Sasuke at his current level"
He wanst implying Sasuke on a weakened state or blinded.
 
Naruto is inferior to Sasuke when Naruto's weakness is genjutsu and thanks to the fact being a jinchuuriki renders him immune to it he's capable of overcoming his weakness, Sasuke has no exploitable weakness on the manga, and if he got any it will be shown on the last battle.
 
 

My problem with people saying "I am stronger and or weaker than this person" is are they really stronger or weaker or is that their ego talking? My problem with Sasuke's power is that he says that he is stronger and such, but really has Sasuke shown such a power? Naruto with his power and Kurama was able to take on all tailed beast with little effort, but Sasuke could barely fight one of them.

I went with the manga stated as fact.
Sasuke has shown that power, he beat up three akatsukis despite not being able to defeat Itachi but it was normal since Itachi is OP.
The last statement you're comparing different moments of the manga, on that scene Sasuke didnt even had susano'o, and you compared with Naruto at the peak of his power.

So forgive me if I find it hard to believe that Naruto is truly weaker than Sasuke. Maybe he is now sans Kurama's power, but if Naruto is just as strong as Sasuke without Kurama's power, what does that say with Kurama's power added?

Naruto would have to be immune to genjutsu or find a way to counter it without Kurama's power to at least be capable of being par to par with Sasuke, he could fight Sasuke before but Sasuke could not use genjutsus.

I can't go just by word of mouth anymore when it comes to people's power levels nor by power scaling because if Dragonball taught us anything it is that power levels are meaningless and people rely on them too much underestimating their opponent.

Naruto is not like DBZ with it's powerlevels because on Naruto it goes down to who has more jutsus and chakra and less weakness.
Naruto has a critical weakness(genjutsu) against Sasuke.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 December 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[dejavu]

wow...a heated discussion..too bad i'm so tired to backread everything.

 

The chapter came out during christmas so i'm kinda late for this but the next chapter will probably roll like this:

 

Chapter 661: Come back to papa

 

First scene of the year would have a big text saying : "NARUTO-KUUUUN~" moe moe moe hold hands with me again so we can unleash the power of our hidden love!

 

Kurama will try to put up a fight so he could crawl back to papa Nardo.

there will be lots of ! ! ! ! ! !

but nardo would probably be conscious still..in the brink of "dying"

 

Somehow i think Karin will have her sexy back.

she'll say something or whatever to reiterate Uzumaki factsss...

maybe Sakura can get a panel or two..maybe she'll be shown on the 2nd chapter of the year (i'm prolly saying this so it could have a reverse effect. iknowimsmartlikethat)

 

The one-tailed beast whatshecalledagain?

has this mini drama/resentment towards Kurama right? or am i mixing filler stuffs?

i remember somewhere he is quite bitter and not in good terms with the tailed beast who boast that the one with more tails is stronger.

 

so maybe he and Gaara would be focus on a little again.

 

err.. i don't now anymore. i should probably stop typing these while im holiday drunk.

 

 

[James S Cassidy]

Funny thought you talk about context and totally disregard Naruto's context when he said "i cant beat Sasuke at his current level"

He wanst implying Sasuke on a weakened state or blinded.

 

Naruto is inferior to Sasuke when Naruto's weakness is genjutsu and thanks to the fact being a jinchuuriki renders him immune to it he's capable of overcoming his weakness, Sasuke has no exploitable weakness on the manga, and if he got any it will be shown on the last battle.

 

Hmmm....well both of their levels have increased since then with Sasuke regaining his eye-sight and his brother's eyes as well as Naruto teaming up with Kurama and sharing their power on friendlier terms. So I think the playing field has changed.

 

However, I find the Sasuke vs Naruto aspect to be like Batman vs Superman. Sasuke is Batman. His eyes are like the utility belt that he used to get out of every situation imaginable no matter how ridiculous. Naruto is the Superman who while doesn't have a lot of abilities, has immense powers and near infinite strength. Whenever the idea of Batman vs Superman comes into play people think Batman would win, but in truth even Batman admits that the only way he ever has a chance is that Superman is always holding back.

I feel Naruto is in the same boat here. Naruto could probably blast Sasuke from orbit if he wanted to, but we know he will hold back....which that is Naruto's weakness. He holds back too much when it comes to Sasuke because he doesn't want to kill him.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 December 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[Weltall]

Funny thought you talk about context and totally disregard Naruto's context when he said "i cant beat Sasuke at his current level"
He wanst implying Sasuke on a weakened state or blinded.
 
Naruto is inferior to Sasuke when Naruto's weakness is genjutsu and thanks to the fact being a jinchuuriki renders him immune to it he's capable of overcoming his weakness, Sasuke has no exploitable weakness on the manga, and if he got any it will be shown on the last battle.

But that's what the others were talking about, and it doesn't contradict what I said since I said Naruto can't defeat Sasuke but neither can Sasuke, what I don't aknowledge is the so called Sasuke superiority when there's much more implying they are equal.

Please don’t bring genjutsu or feats into this it will lead nowhere because feats don't matter in this manga what matters is power level, if 2 characters are said to be equal then they will be equal no matter how nonsencical it is, theoretically nothing could stop Kakashi to Kamui everyone's heads but it's not happening because fights are dictated by plot and power levels no matter how much hax you have.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

But that's what the others were talking about, and it doesn't contradict what I said since I said Naruto can't defeat Sasuke but neither can Sasuke, what I don't aknowledge is the so called Sasuke superiority when there's much more implying they are equal.

It did contradicted, the manga stated Naruto was weaker than Sasuke which was right at that time, Sasuke got more power ups than Naruto and Naruto got SM which improved his attributes and Rasenshuriken however Sasuke had Susano'o and genjutsu, They werent equal and it was stated, Sasuke implied max power and he got that but no, not being satisfied with that you forced "benefit of doubt" and put subjective aspects into the matter, and tried to make me look like some sort of an idiot that holds the entire knowledge of the site and claimed i cant see the context of manga panels that only you managed to see it.
You're trying to justify your subjective claims with no manga panels or proof.
Just with your fallacy.
 

Please don’t bring genjutsu or feats into this it will lead nowhere because feats don't matter in this manga what matters is power level, if 2 characters are said to be equal then they will be equal no matter how nonsencical it is, theoretically nothing could stop Kakashi to Kamui everyone's heads but it's not happening because fights are dictated by plot and power levels no matter how much hax you have.

Where did i talked about feats, i was quoting James because he bought up feats, you started saying Pain'arc and inserting "If's" into your commentaries.
 

Hmmm....well both of their levels have increased since then with Sasuke regaining his eye-sight and his brother's eyes as well as Naruto teaming up with Kurama and sharing their power on friendlier terms. So I think the playing field has changed.

Yep a lot of thing changed but Naruto's powerups were in aspect to Kurama outside of that he hasnt improved, on the same as Sasuke's hasnt improved only got more jutsus.
 
 

However, I find the Sasuke vs Naruto aspect to be like Batman vs Superman. Sasuke is Batman. His eyes are like the utility belt that he used to get out of every situation imaginable no matter how ridiculous. Naruto is the Superman who while doesn't have a lot of abilities, has immense powers and near infinite strength. Whenever the idea of Batman vs Superman comes into play people think Batman would win, but in truth even Batman admits that the only way he ever has a chance is that Superman is always holding back.

I find more like it but with a difference, let's theorically say that Batman cant beat Superman Prime but can beat Superman.
So Batman beat Superman but he cant beat Superman Prime, Superman needs Kurama to be Superman Prime.

 

I feel Naruto is in the same boat here. Naruto could probably blast Sasuke from orbit if he wanted to, but we know he will hold back....which that is Naruto's weakness. He holds back too much when it comes to Sasuke because he doesn't want to kill him.

Naruto's jutsus arent lethal, even his rasenshuriken cant kill for some reason, i mean it didnt killed Kakuzu(kakashi land the final blow) Naruto's jutsus arent lethal, that's the difference between them, but it doesnt make them weaker or stronger.
Only bijuudama is the exception obviously.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 December 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[redragon88]

Then why are you still responding to our posts? If you start an argument, be prepared for the opposing party to defend their opinions. I don't know what your intentions were but you were obviously trying to make a point of some sort.
 

No, it just sounded like you were trying to lend this perspective of inconclusiveness for whatever reason. That's just my impression though. I'm going by what the manga has established.

 

Why are you still responding to mine? How about you don't.

 

I wasn't making an argument, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, I was just making talk about how I see certain events differently. I kept repeating over and over again that I understood you weren't going to see things my way, and that I was ok with how you viewed things as well.

 

You're the one that kept pressing on and on trying to prove me wrong, that I needed to concede to your opinion. And you kept giving me more and more attitude just because I didn't want to agree with you. That's why I decided to stop, because I knew it was going to escalate into something I didn't want.

 

So how about you just do as I was asking, accept that I don't share your views, like I did with you, and just move on.

 

Actually i dont even care, i just dislike and i know that uses of fallacy doesnt add nothing to a debate on the contrary impoverish it, like using the benefit of doubt to disregard an manga fact aside from that i'm okay.

Because like you said i can even put Sakura and Madara on the same level just because they didnt had a fight.

 

You care enough to respond. And I wasn't even debating. I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong, I was just sharing how I saw things and kept getting responded how I should change my opinion because of this or that, but because I don't agree apparently that's a problem.

 

You go ahead and call what I say fallacy, I say you're completely wrong in you're arguments, but it's your right to have an opinion. I won't attempt to make you feel bad just because you see things differently.

 

You can't really compare Naruto vs Sasuke with Sakura vs Madara, please don't say things just for the sake of saying them.

[Weltall]

It did contradicted, the manga stated Naruto was weaker than Sasuke which was right at that time, Sasuke got more power ups than Naruto and the genjutsu aspect was a critical measure.They werent equal and it was stated, Sasuke implied max power and he got that but no, not being satisfied with that you forced "benefit of doubt" and put subjective aspects into the matter, and tried to make me look like some sort of an idiot that holds the entire knowledge of the site and claimed i cant see the context of manga panels that only you managed to see it.You're trying to justify your subjective claims with no manga panels or proof.Just with your fallacy. Where did i talked about feats, i was quoting James because he bought up feats, you started saying Pain'arc and inserting "If's" into your commentaries.

It was never stated in the manga. You avoided all my questions and all the answers I gave you along with, everything that went against your belief was simply ignored.

Genjutsu are feats and again avoiding the answers as usual.
Believe what you want but let's stop wasting our time it's time to move on.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

.
 
You care enough to respond. And I wasn't even debating. I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong, I was just sharing how I saw things and kept getting responded how I should change my opinion because of this or that, but because I don't agree apparently that's a problem.
 
You go ahead and call what I say fallacy, I say you're completely wrong in you're arguments, but it's your right to have an opinion. I won't attempt to make you feel bad just because you see things differently.
 
You can't really compare Naruto vs Sasuke with Sakura vs Madara, please don't say things just for the sake of saying them.

I was refering to the aspect you disagree with the views, you're using benefit of doubt to go against manga facts.
And that i dislike, it destroy the debate and impoverish it, you're forcing a subjective view with no manga proof and using a special kind of logic that only you see it and doesnt care about the consequences of it like it can even be used to negate NaruSaku itself, just as a heads up.

The logic you used ot go against is so out of place that it can be used to negate Naruto's feelings for Sakura, put Sakura on the same level of Madara in terms of "power level", show that NH will end up together and etc...

It was never stated in the manga. You avoided all my questions and all the answers I gave you along with, everything that went against your belief was simply ignored.

Genjutsu are feats and again avoiding the answers as usual.
Believe what you want but let's stop wasting our time it's time to move on.

i'm not going to move forward on your debate until you prove the two aspects that initiated that, first that Naruto was wrong when he said that he was weaker than Sasuke and that Sasuke implied he was weaker than Naruto thus being the reason for him to get a power up.

I'm going to stop here, i wont keep arguing over manga facts, i'll just agree to disagree and i wont respond to any posts of this matter.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 December 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

For me, it's not really an issue of waiting for everything to make sense, so much of the stuff Kishimoto has written don't seem to serve any purpose at all, like the history of Shukaku, I don't feel it was truly important in the grand scheme, nor was it some significant piece of a puzzle waiting to be filled. Basically, I feel that Kishimoto often uses these little 'history lessons' to fill space, and I find myself feeling this way more and more, since there really doesn't seem to be any real course of action that Kishi has set out right now and that's why this battle just keeps going on and on while he tries to figure it out. Maybe that's not what's happening, I can't read Kishi's mind after all, but I certainly feels that way.

 

I guess I'm just becoming a little tried, tried of overpowered characters and back and forth battles, and tried of a story that has become completely dictated by plot rather than the characters and their actions to drive the story, right now the whole story has become tiresome and dull, and the elements of the manga I enjoyed have pretty much disappeared. Yet, I still keep reading, maybe because I haven't completely given up that it will get better eventually. Or maybe it's just habit.

Who knows.

 

In a weird way, we say we know ourselves the best and while it's true, sometimes we don't understand our own feelings or even opinion. Like you'll be like "is this what I think?" or "is this what I said?" I guess it's something that just others won't get it as much as you do. I can't really say. To each of their own.

[redragon88]

I was refering to the aspect you disagree with the views, you're using benefit of doubt to go against manga facts.
And that i dislike, it destroy the debate and impoverish it, you're forcing a subjective view with no manga proof and using a special kind of logic that only you see it and doesnt care about the consequences of it like it can even be used to negate NaruSaku itself, just as a heads up.

The logic you used ot go against is so out of place that it can be used to negate Naruto's feelings for Sakura, put Sakura on the same level of Madara in terms of "power level", show that NH will end up together and etc...

I'm going to stop here, i wont keep arguing over manga facts, i'll just agree to disagree and i wont respond to any posts of this matter.

 

What I say doesn't go against manga facts, not the way I see it. But as I said I'm not looking to change anyone's opinion. You're the one who took it too personally that I had a different view and that I was "destroying the debate".

 

If you really want to keep whatever debate you're having (because I'm not debating anything) intact then don't respond to posts you view as detrimental to them. This is on you.

 

If you want to believe my arguments can negate this or that your allowed to do so, but don't expect me to agree.