187 replies to this topic

[Mik3]

As much as this decision was the right one, because I maintain that they would have gotten slaughtered during the holidays, this isn't leveling the play field completely. Kinect is still mandatory, and so the price remains unattractive. And a lot of us won't forget what they tried. Maybe they were so sure of Sony implementing DRM they decided to just go ahead and do it, but that wasn't the case. This is back peddling. 

[James S Cassidy]

As much as this decision was the right one, because I maintain that they would have gotten slaughtered during the holidays, this isn't leveling the play field completely. Kinect is still mandatory, and so the price remains unattractive. And a lot of us won't forget what they tried. Maybe they were so sure of Sony implementing DRM they decided to just go ahead and do it, but that wasn't the case. This is back peddling. 

But you get exactly what you want....everyone complained that the DRM, used games, and the 24 hour log in was the biggest problem and Microsoft changed it...for the people who didn't want it. Now, after they changed it your claiming "back-peddling?"

I am sorry, but this is the reason why I have lost faith in the gaming community. Instead of being happy that Microsoft decided to change it for the gamers, they just find something new to complain about and are never happy.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.
 

 

Too little, too late. 

 

I say the PS4 is a better purchase for me. Microsoft knew they screwed up with Xbox One because they were trying to get rid of used games (and piracy) and add all of those policies during their conferences. They should've avoid or didn't say anything at all about it and maybe they will gain some love Sony had.

 

Then Sony does something to screw up and now everyone loves Mircosoft and not Sony. Then the cycle repeats over and over again. Does anyone remember when Sony tried to stop releases in other countries because they wanted to make more money based on pre-orders? I remember the flame war that caused and yet, now everyone is saying PS4 is the better product.

Last gen we all loved the 360. Gen before that, we all loved the PS2. Meanwhile Nintendo really was left in the dust by both Sony AND Microsoft hardware wise yet made a bigger profit than both combined with their handhelds, cheap family fun, and such.

So I don't think it is "Too little,Too late." All it takes is one good move by Microsoft or one bad move by Sony and the entire market switches sides faster than they change their underwear. You know this to be true. It happened before, it will happen again. First impressions aside, things do change. Look at the 360 and how it changed its entire xbox live experience that everyone said was much better than PSN. It got better and better.

It will forever be a vicious cycle. Meanwhile PC fanboys come in claiming they are the master race.

I don't even know if I want any of the newer generation. I just dropped $1500 dollars on a new computer that runs circles around all these systems, but power alone does not make a system despite what people think.

I want to look at the games and so far, I see several games I want to play on the Xbox One, yet only one game on the PS4. (InFamous)

Edited by James S Cassidy, 19 June 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[Mik3]

But you get exactly what you want....everyone complained that the DRM, used games, and the 24 hour log in was the biggest problem and Microsoft changed it...for the people who didn't want it. Now, after they changed it your claiming "back-peeling"

I am sorry, but this is the reason why I have lost faith in the gaming community. Instead of being happy that Microsoft decided to change it for the gamers, they just find something new to complain about and is never happy.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

 

 

As much as it pains me to know you've lost faith, there is reason to be upset. After telling me to just get a 360 If I want offline play, after one of their employees tweeting the masses to just "deal with it", after claiming that the always on requirement was a necessity for the future and anybody who thought otherwise "just wasn't ready for that future.", yeah, I'm not exactly feeling indebted to Microsoft for their late decision. 

[Cloud]

But you get exactly what you want....everyone complained that the DRM, used games, and the 24 hour log in was the biggest problem and Microsoft changed it...for the people who didn't want it. Now, after they changed it your claiming "back-peeling"

I am sorry, but this is the reason why I have lost faith in the gaming community. Instead of being happy that Microsoft decided to change it for the gamers, they just find something new to complain about and is never happy.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

 

It's the way they talk down to their fanbase. "Get a 360 if you don't have access to internet."

 

Not exactly the way to talk to people ready to shell out major money for a system. As far as I'm concerned, Don Mattrick is still a giant kitten with his smart-ass remarks. You go ahead and love this Xbox if you want, but the way we're treated like scum, not cool.

 

Doesn't matter if they revoked it, their PR fiasco lately of dodging answers lost them a lot of support.

Edited by Cloud, 19 June 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

 

 

As much as it pains me to know you've lost faith, there is reason to be upset. After telling me to just get a 360 If I want offline play, after one of their employees tweeting the masses to just "deal with it", after claiming that the always on requirement was a necessity for the future and anybody who thought otherwise "just wasn't ready for that future.", yeah, I'm not exactly feeling indebted to Microsoft for their late decision. 

 

There is a reason to be upset with the gaming community too. And probably just for the same reasons you have for hating Microsoft. Have you seen the comments the gamers have sent to Microsoft over the hate? It makes what they said seem normal frustration. People forget that they are human too and probably the pressure of the gamers sending hateful mail saying "Go kill yourself" isn't exactly good either. This doesn't excuse their actions, but it might just be the reason behind it.

I would be losing my mind too trying to make a group of people, who never seem happy, happy.

Microsoft may have said those things, but the gaming community wasn't exactly any more adult about it. Maybe if the gaming community didn't pirate games, then they wouldn't need to try such things in the first place. I think this is something the gaming community needs to understand. If you want to be treated like an adult, you have to act like an adult. Imagine if it was you working at the company. A developer trying to bring something new and an entire community wishes you would die all because of an idea that they hated.

Sony does such things too, but many seem to have forgotten this over time. So how long til this is forgotten? One year? Two? Don't say you will never forget because eventually everyone forgets. Then they come out with Xbox 4 or update Xbox One to a pinnacle state and watch it be the best system ever to the point that everyone forgets this thing.

You still mad at EA for their online codes or are you happy they removed them now? Probably the latter and this was years after they implemented it.

 

Microsoft wanted to bring a Steam like system to the consoles, but all anyone did was spit in their face for it. I ain't saying it was perfect, but at least they were trying something. They failed, but at least they tried and I'll give them credit for that.
 

 

 

It's the way they talk down to their fanbase. "Get a 360 if you don't have access to internet."

 

Not exactly the way to talk to people ready to shell out major money for a system. As far as I'm concerned, Don Mattrick is still a giant kitten with his smart-ass remarks. You go ahead and love this Xbox if you want, but the way we're treated like scum, not cool.

 

Doesn't matter if they revoked it, their PR fiasco lately of dodging answers lost them a lot of support.

I am afraid that is bashing, my friend. Besides, I know someone who is worse. Two words: "Bobby Kotick." He is a snake who may smile to your face, but strike you when your back is turned which I think is far worse.

 

And again, with comments like that and some of the other worse comments, you wonder why these companies treat you the way they do. (Sony too.)


 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 20 June 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[Cloud]

Wow, bashing?

 

Yes, I'm bashing. Because his remarks weren't totally out of order, right? They were DEFINITELY called for.

 

Steam-like system? Maybe, but at least Steam lets you play a majority of your games offline with an offline mode option.

 

I never had issues with Sony's old music cd DRMs nor did I have a problem with online passes. What I had a problem with was restricting people from playing a system they bought (Army people? Little to no internet. Rural town? Shoddy internet. Traveling? Sometimes internets) And not being able to share games, wtf? So I want to have my friend not spend another $60 for a game they're wanting to play but don't see themselves owning for a long time? I can't lend it? BS.

 

The way they back-pedaled is fine, but the remarks and bad PR from one of their top CEOs angered a lot of people.

 

Whatever you believe, go ahead and believe it. But do not say I'm bashing, because I'm not. (and yes, I know Bobby Kotick is equally asinine with his remarks.)

Edited by Cloud, 20 June 2013 - 12:40 AM.

[Dreamer]

Mattrick has already did the damage on my decision. They still didn't clarify on the Kinect's spyware "always on" issue.

[No WhereMan]

Mattrick has already did the damage on my decision. They still didn't clarify on the Kinect's spyware "always on" issue.

They have in a way, apparently they're official statement is, when not on XB1 doesn't activate until it hears, "Xbox On". I believe the Kinect, is included with this. Keep in mind this rule is based entirely on MS' word.

[Illmatic]

But you get exactly what you want....everyone complained that the DRM, used games, and the 24 hour log in was the biggest problem and Microsoft changed it...for the people who didn't want it. Now, after they changed it your claiming "back-peddling?"

MS went public with their policies and tried to spin it as a positive. They changed their minds because of the negative reception. It's good that they did, but they absolutely backpedalled. It is what is. Sorry if if that offends you. 

Edited by Illmatic, 20 June 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

They have in a way, apparently they're official statement is, when not on XB1 doesn't activate until it hears, "Xbox On". I believe the Kinect, is included with this. Keep in mind this rule is based entirely on MS' word.

 

I wonder what'll happen if someone screams "XBOX OFF!" while their friend is playing? Would it register and turn off the system?

[Dreamer]

It's still in standby mode (waiting for command) which means there is still power going to the kinect when system is off.

Edited by Dreamer, 20 June 2013 - 12:55 AM.

[No WhereMan]

It's still in standby mode (waiting for command) which means there is still power going to the kinect when system is off.

Oh, trust me I know it sounds fishy and it seems like a system that could be easily exploiting by a number of people. But like I said, that's their official statement. ^^

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Such shocking news isn't complete without Jim Sterling's reaction.

 

http://www.destructo...al-256624.phtml

 

Dirty language warnings apply

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 20 June 2013 - 03:58 AM.

[Ex-psych75]

its funny that the first DLC in xbox-one is offline mode.

 

And that you need online to download offline.

 

The icing in the cake would be you have to pay live membership first.

 

Edit: I just realize the Wii-u does this too (minus the payment)

Edited by Ex-psych75, 20 June 2013 - 04:44 AM.

[KonaKonaFan]

Still think I'll pass on the xBone. I'm liking PS4 too much at this point.

Edited by KonaKonaFan, 21 June 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[Zatheko]

Good to see Xbox changed their minds with some of their decision, but I am still getting the PS4 instead.

 

Switched to PS3 about 2 years ago when I originally started with Xbox and Xbox 360, have enjoyed it a lot more. Only really played Xbox for Halo and the series lately doesn't catch my interest like it used to.

[dl316bh]

I honestly don't get the "well I'll get it for the exclusives" thing. Consoles have had more or less the same output for an entire generation now, meaning you're basically paying five hundred dollars to play a handful of titles. Genuinely don't get it. I mean, it's not like when I was a kid, where the Genesis and the SNES went so far as to have exclusive, completely different versions of the same game. Seems like a waste.

 

But then again I'm also a guy who is so impossibly cheap I don't even like paying for gas, figuring "goddamn there goes ten bucks I could have put in savings".

 

So, mileage may vary. Seems like a waste of money to me thugh. Hell, I love Sonic more than I love most things not wearing a Bat symbol on their chest and I won't get a Wii U unless there are at least a couple dozen games good enough to be worth it.

I'm impressed, they were willing to reverse their decisions right away.

 

I wouldn't be too impressed. This was clearly a very recent decision, likely made in panic. Pre-orders have been lopsided in favor of the PS4. Their PR line about listening to the fans is BS; if it didn't look like their bottom line was going to be hurt, they would not have changed course. Hell, right up until the other day Mattrick was making an ass of himself trying to defend it, going so far as to say they were "overdelivering value".

 

And in case you don't think I'm telling the truth about them lying through their teeth, contrast how the line before was "the system was built around it, you can't just flick a switch and turn the DRM off" and how quickly that changed when the pre-order news came in.

I think the 8th Console War's now pretty much even between the X1 and the PS4.

 

Man, I hope not, because it will be a sign that I give gamers too much credit in the intelligence department. They were going to do this, whether anyone liked it or not and had the pre-orders been a bit more even they'd likely have stuck it out. They still made the transgression and they need to be punished monetarily for it so they don't try anything like it again. Because I guarantee you that they will otherwise try and pull crap like this again, even if they have to slip it in there one at a time other than all at once.

 

They need to be shown, overwhelmingly, that there will be no tolerance for this kind of crap. Corporations do not listen to anything but profit margins and have to be forced to do what we want. You and I and what we want are just obstacles to them making the most money.

I am sorry, but this is the reason why I have lost faith in the gaming community. Instead of being happy that Microsoft decided to change it for the gamers

 

If you think for one second they changed anything because gamers wanted it, well, I've got a rare exotic gem to sell you and I swear despite appearances it's not cubic zirconium.

 

I'd lose faith in the gaming community if they DID do an about face and forgive.

 

There also wasn't a magical lovefest for the 360; some folks love it and didn't have problems, while others got the shaft. Sony got arrogant and it cost them, but that doesn't mean the X-Box 360 wasn't a troubled sack of circuits. I bought one and after the second time it crapped out I regretted it and just went out and bought a PS3. My story is not exactly uncommon. How Microsoft escaped going to court is beyond me; any other business shoved a product out to get a year jump on the competition only to find it had a mass defect would've had to do a recall and fix it.

Edited by dl316bh, 20 June 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Oh no, don't misunderstand that I didn't know this was a decision to save themselves after seeing the brutal beating they got in terms of pre-order sales.  

 

Still, that doesn't mean the usual COD, Halo, GOW fanboys aren't gonna get their X1s.  Now that they changed their policies, they'll come flocking back.  Heck, I've even talked to a guy who didn't really care about their DRM/Online policy stuff and was probably gonna get an X1 regardless because he likes the games from X1 than in the PS4.  Those guys'll make up the difference, most likely.  

 

Still, I give M$ props for recognizing what a bad decision they made and changed it, even if they changed it because of how much money they were gonna lose and not because of the voices of the people.

[Inferno180]

For anyone still stuck on the kinect issue, you can turn it off, they give you the choice, you can even just pause it for whatever reasons. Many people on other sites still flaming this issue, it was resolved before this reversal. You have the choice to turn it off otherwise just block it with something if going through a menu is too hard. People are making a big deal out of this because it just occured yet this whole rage or lack of forgiveness to microsoft is just another flame incident which will die out and people won't even be concerned with it this fall. I mean yeah they did shoot themselves in the foot for even doing this in the first place. MS can't stand one thing and thats not making money, they at least learned the mistake and better to go with the old effective model which has been around since the NES days rather than take a risk with something new. Just let me say this Its not like people critizied Nintendo and Sony before for bad descisions, in fact Sony actually let a desciion hurt the PS3 back in 2006 for anyone who can remember it.

 

Nintendo has made a lot of shovelware crap over the generations, I like Nintendo, I grew up with it, Zelda in my opinion is a game series that continues to trump any Halos, Cods, Uncharted, GTA, etc. I mean the gameboy cameria? Wii fit? I just get sick of all the peripherals they put out, I really just take the basic controller and only real extension I ever got was the motion-plus for the wii controller. Also remember back in 2006, everyone made fun of the wii? Many said Nintendo was done, many said it would fail, yet its sold almost 100 million consoles. Then we get Sony doing the same exact thing with Playstation move and sony fans ate that right up saying the exact double standard stuff like "well its sony they know what they are doing." That made me and many other gamers just go, "Are you freaking kidding?" They only did that cause they saw how much Nintendo was making. Sony at least seemingly abandoned the thing unlike Microsoft which constantly tries to push Kinect (as a 360 gamer too, I seriously say Kinect is an unnecessary piece of crap they should not have kept pushing, it makes gaming worse). All i plan to do with the xbox one kinect, its simple TURN IT OFF. People made fun of Nintendo for the wii u, its off to a slow start but guess what helps it sell like hotcakes, Mario, Nintendo just needs another multiplayer Mario out later this year, done, more will buy it. Many will buy it for Pikmin 3, many will buy it just for smash bros. Nintendo has been said to be able to make a toaster and it would still sell. No need to even mention the 3DS, they are making more off that then any other system in the past at this rate.

 

Sony has had its own share of blunders too, anyone remember how Sony shot themselves in the foot with the $600 PS3? You had a choice back then for a $500 piece of crap PS3 or the good $600 one. Well people urged Sony to change it but they kept it, the result? Sony had to play catch up for the first 2-3 years before it fully took off. MS despite the PR fallout, it did change it which was the smart thing to do, they could not counter sony after the E3 slaughtering it gave them, but they at least patched their wounds now it just comes down to MS at this point to show customers the reasons why they should spend $100 more on the Xbox one rather than the PS4. Aside from waiting for a price drop. Even with this stuff though, when the issues were present, people would still have bought the system anyways. There are always people who would support or buy it. Their actions now, it should have salvaged some stuff and many people are going to forgive them, but it really comes back to the customer too, the individual.

 

Consider me, I got my 360 back in 07, why? Because its what my friends played, PC gaming is more expensive in the long run, I have a good mid range PC and yes PC tech is better, but why should I drop $2000+ dollars for a gaming rig needing very specific peices, only for some pieces (like the graphics card) needing an upgrade every 2-3 years? Some of these cards are over $400! A PC can last years but I don't want to need a small minor piece of tech just to play a new game. Also , I like when games innovate, the keyborad setup has been around forever but its never changed, not to mention I still see no innovation on PC games as much as others. I mean TF2, Half-life, WoW( for a time), there are many good PC games but its just too limited to me. I play console exclusives more than multiplatform games. I enjoyed Halo when my friends showed it to me, I got a 360 because of that and soon found myself playing other games like gears, COD (for a short time before it turned to crap), Resident Evil 5 (well I got 4 on the Wii so this was a nice continuation), Fable (2 was good 3 was meh), and one unique one, Shadow complex, inspired by what else but Metroid? Yeah COD and RE were not exclusives but I also felt more comfortable with the 360 controller than the PS3 or PS2 set up, maybe because I had a gamecube and the joystick layout was similar between a GC and Xbox one, I had an easy time adapting.

 

I got a 360 for one reason and one reason alone though, its what my friends and I liked to play. For me after hearing how the xbox one policies were first put in, we were upset and angry and lost for a time because well there was not much we actually liked on PS4, I mean destiny would have been the only thing we got but we still did not care much for many other games on it. I loved uncharted, one of the best games I ever played, but I would not just get a console for those reasons, I would get them because I want to game with my friends. When this news came out about reversing the decision, now its just a matter of my friends and I waiting for a price drop when its no longer $500 after a time its been out.

 

I'm ticked MS even thought of the stuff but now that the grief is over, is this stuff going to matter 5 months from now? More people are going to buy the system now, but hey I was a GC owner over the PS2 and Xbox, guess kinda like the Naruto fandom of us being NS and being bashed all the time, I'm used to being part of the crowd which is bashed on, I was bashed because I owned a GC or wii, now guess its time to be bashed for wanting an xbox one later. In high school when I had a wii people would make fun of it, I just said okay good, how is it important to you? And while they would play online, some days the same people who made fun of what I had, they came in pissed to school because of what others said online to them in game matches, I would have the perfect opportunity to strike back and say, "Oh pissed off because a little kid annoyed you in an online game? I don't have that problem with a wii because no one talks, but then again I don't really care, I just want a system to play games I like." This just pissed others like those people off to no end and all I would tell them is rather then take your anger out on me, why not figure out how to get back at the guy who annoyed you online if it was so important?

 

Point is, companies do dumb things and make dumb choices from time to time, for MS this was a big blunder but they at least reversed their choice. Now what will sony do if they want to prey upon them again? Nintendo is just sitting back eating popcorn because they are already out with their nex gen system and people will buy that stuff as I mentioned. 5 months is a long time in the internet, this stuff will die down in time. But hey its just fandom in general, because as humans we have a natural desire for domanane like many animals, rather than bloodshed, we try to find meaning in these quallrels about what we enjoy, like, and prefer. The same way we see the fandom wars in Naruto or any other fictional series, its the same with these console wars, but just remember, the console war is not about who sells the most, its within the customer and what they decide to buy, once that console is bought, that console war is one. They all win when one buys all the systems. They lose when one does not buy another. I bought my wii and 360, ds, 3ds, PC and wii u, I will get a xbox one later on when the price drops. Yet I still have a PS3 why? It was gotten for free due to a best buy deal my parents did a few years ago. I got it and got a couple games for it but its not as appealing to me because it was also at that point i didn't have any friends with a PS3, case and point here, this is the reason why going to a PS4 would be harder for me but its not an issue anymore due to the reversal of MS choice. I mean Don Mattick, he is really really a big douche, don't get me wrong but I'm still getting the Xbox one why? Because its what I enjoy plan and simple. I didn't care that the GC sold 80 million less copies than the PS2, so what? I enjoyed games like Wind Waker and Metroid Prime other things I consider overrated like shadow of the colossus or any FF beyond 7.

 

For anyone who wants to see a better idea of what I mean, take a look at what Tim Buckly, author of Ctrl-Alt-Del said about the issue before the decision to reverse the bad stuff, it still basically applies, http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20130612

Edited by Inferno180, 20 June 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[dl316bh]

Tim Buckly, author of Ctrl-Alt-Del said about the issue before the decision to reverse the bad stuff, it still basically applies

 

I tend to avoid anything that sack of crap says or does.

 

Just let me say this Its not like people critizied Nintendo and Sony before for bad descisions, in fact Sony actually let a desciion hurt the PS3 back in 2006 for anyone who can remember it.

 

I already said that. "Sony got arrogant last time and it cost them". No one's forgotten. But a ridiculous price point kind of pales in comparison to an effort to change the rules of ownership. And they will try again unless the costs are shown to outweigh the benefits. In fact they could still turn the DRM back on at any time. They're turning it off with a patch, they can sure turn it back on with one.

 

I've also criticized Nintendo quite a bit in the past and I actually LIKE them. I'm not the only one. So I don't know where you're getting this "no one criticized THEM" business from.