204 replies to this topic

[Sakura Blossoms]

Whoa it's that extreme? I would like to read it.

Heh, I wrote it on my work computer, and I'm home now so sadly it's gone ^^

And I thought that this person made a pretty interesting point concerning Failbook and Google trolls -

FF.net is turning into FB w/all of their sneaky kitten. As of today, they have made it impossible to block Anonymous reviews. And I have never allowed Anonymous reviews because that (by and large) is where you get your troll. I know that’s not everyone, but people who want to remain invisible even so far as a ‘fake online identity,’ usually do so for a reason. My feeling is, you have something to say you can own it.

But NOW, this is the new policy:

“Moderate Anonymous Comment”
“Enable moderation feature for story comments from anonymous/non-members of the site. When enabled, you have a 36 hour window to moderate (approve or remove) new anonymous comments before they are accepted by the site. When disabled, there is no waiting period and anonymous comments are automatically accepted and displayed by the site. Note that you can always remove anonymous reviews post the 36 hour moderation window.”

So, rather than just saying you don’t accept them, now you have no choice in the matter. And it’s YOUR responsibility to police what kind of anonymous kitten people post on your stories. Have a job and a family and don’t check your reviews every SINGLE day of your life? Too bad! The reviewer who graffitied on your wall, “your story sucks you stupid fu*kwad!” (and I did see that on anonymous HP review before) that’s staying forever!

I had thought, once I move everything over, I’ll just stop posting at ff.net, and leave things there for posterity. But at this point, their policies are just making my skin crawl. Again with the Thought Police and now this new one, I want no affiliation there. God knows what they’ll do next. Probably start running the censor software IN the stories. You’ll open them up and people will get shot at and yell “****”.

So I think now by the end of the summer I’ll just delete my whole account. Honestly, really, they’re just creeping me out. And my little theory, if you care, now that they have that option of logging in with other profiles, that they’re lining everything up to those outside groups policies. And Google, like FB, is all about infiltrating everything you own. So have no doubt, if they’re now wired into the FF. net system (and they have to be if you can login there) they’re now running algorithms on everything you do to “make your online experience better.” kitten off.

[SkiesEagle]

I don't know what the hell to say or do about FFnet and all their sneaky bullsh** changes anymore. It just makes you want to rip your hair out and scream in fury -.-

http://www.tumblr.co...fore=1340945384

What? *groan* Not only I have a issue with new change of "comment" but now I can't get rid of anonymous comment?

Funny thing is the FFnet get rid of the blue review button. I remember the site did change that last month and now they change it again for the better. I thought in my mind like "FFnet! Please make up your mind!" I don't understand why FFnet keep changing in past several days. Are they trying make the authors mad?
I feel like I want to delete my account but I can't because there are some of my favorite authors still on the site. I am starting to get really tried and frustrating.

[Konohakitten]

What? *groan* Not only I have a issue with new change of "comment" but now I can't get rid of anonymous comment?

Funny thing is the FFnet get rid of the blue review button. I remember the site did change that last month and now they change it again for the better. I thought in my mind like "FFnet! Please make up your mind!" I don't understand why FFnet keep changing in past several days. Are they trying make the authors mad?
I feel like I want to delete my account but I can't because there are some of my favorite authors still on the site. I am starting to get really tried and frustrating.

Really...I mean really when is all this bull going to just stop! I cant believe that you have no choice over these anonymous reviews. Now with this last stunt I'm positive that they are just trolling authors to delete their accounts. I went and got an account at yourfanfiction.com but ppl there have no idea how to review, its sad really, I thought FF.net was slow with reviews but boy was I wrong. I'm working on my story's next chapter and I'm at a lost on what to do. I think I will just continue to upload it on FF.net but at YFF.com as well. However I will not be going to FF.net like I use to, I'm just tired of all of this D:<

[KnS]

For what it's worth, I got ff.net reviews yesterday that were comments, but all the reviews I've received today have been reviews again.

The ability to turn off anonymous reviews isn't important to me personally. It wouldn't shatter my confidence to get flames or BS argument about my characterizations or plots, and I could always delete them anyway. But I can't understand the logic of removing that option from writers.

The thing that has always irked me about the ff.net review structure is that authors cannot respond publicly to reviews. In our HP archive, authors can write one public response to every review. We wanted this feature for authors because it gave them an opportunity to answer any questions, concerns, or criticisms made by a reviewer. That way other readers who checked story reviews to see whether or not they wanted to read a fic were not negatively influenced by erroneous criticisms that couldn't be publicly addressed. It also was a means to distinguish appreciative authors who were interested in interacting with their readers. Win/win.

I got one review on my N/S fic that I reeeeeeally wanted to publicly address because the guy totally missed the point and needed to be set straight. I PMed him, of course, but no other readers who check the reviews will ever know what I said.

And now, if ff.net has configured a bot to say thank you to every review on your behalf, why not just allow the author to respond to reviews? It's not as if they're concerned about space or bandwidth, and the coding change isn't significant -- especially compared to all the other stupid changes they're making.

Edited by KnS, 30 June 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[tricksie]

And now, if ff.net has configured a bot to say thank you to every review on your behalf, why not just allow the author to respond to reviews? It's not as if they're concerned about space or bandwidth, and the coding change isn't significant -- especially compared to all the other stupid changes they're making.

That's the real head-scratcher for me. What's the point? What do they care? Why would they go the distance to send out a message, particularly when the author may not be thankful? Especially if it's a cruddy review from a notorious troll? It's not worth deleting, but it's not worth acknowleding either.

[Toasty Warrior]

All I have to say about all these changes to FanFiction.net is: Da kitten?

[Sakura Blossoms]

We have to voice out against these recent badly-made changes. I've seen all over the internet where people say they are now turned off from leaving reviews, because it's such an inconvenience to have to opt-out or deselect the pre-selected 'author/story' alerts for every chapter/story you read. So, if it's a 50 chapter story and you are generally a reader who likes to review as many chapters as you like, that's essentially fifty different times you have to go through the highly annoying process of deselecting all those alerts. Maybe with enough people writing in to the support email complaining, and stating how much these new 'features' which includes 'moderating anon reviews', are actually hurting the writers themselves FFnet will repeal these idiotic new features. I have some small hope despite the fact that ffnet is notorious for completely ignoring its user base complaints, because the new 'comment' email alerts feature lasted only one day, before readers and writers all over the 'net rose up and demanded that the stupid 'new comment alert' be switched back to 'new review alert'. And it was. So, hopefully again with enough of us voicing out and voicing our displeasure with this latest bad stunt ffnet has pulled, they'll repeal all the dumb crap they've done in the last few days. I've sent an email myself this morning, and plan to send one again later tonight or tomorrow if ffnet looks like they still need a bit more 'persuasion' to change their minds.

[BlackBee]

Okay I made an account so that I can post here(and made an another is my impatience. Sorry!)

But Sakura Blossoms PLEASE think about what you are doing! There are MILLIONS of users on ff.net. Do you honestly think all of them hate the changes as much as you do?

Speaking from the side who LIKES the changes I'm just saying that you should really see the positive side of some of the changes.

For example, the anon review thing. What is something a lot of authors complain about? Reviews. Authors want more reviews all the time. Problem is a lot of people dont have accounts(and you shouldn't expect them to make one) and some people just don't feel like logging in. So they rely on anon review to state their opinion.

Well I see some of you have all anon reviews blocked so of course they won't review if they cant. I think you may be giving much more credit to trolls and stuff than necessary. I have anon review open and so far I got only two bad anon reviews but they were from self admitted homophobes. So I just ignored them and moved on. I got WAY more positive anon reviews.

But anyway, this moderation partially solves that problem. It allows you to get the reviews you want while blocking the trolls/haters. Isn't that a good thing? I mean it opens the window for more reviews and you know what? If you accidentally let a bad review in you can STILL remove. I'm sorry but I do not see the downside of this.

And about the rant Sakura Blossoms, does that person realize there is a 36 hour window for moderating the reviews? You don't have to check EVERY single second.

The 'thank you on th behalf of the author' is just a polite thing they do. Deviantart has the 'don't forget to comment!' thing when you fav something. It has no impact on anything so...it doesn't bother you all that much does it?

But um...yeah the one thing I hate is the purge. That was horrible since they didn't give out a warning . I wasn't hit by it but people I liked were.

But the main of this is Sakura Blossoms could you please not try to change the site because you and a few other people are unsatisfied with it? Some people actually do find the features easier to use. The commenting thing, that's just a little diction. And if you already have the story on your alerts or favorites then just leave the boxes checked I guess. If not...exercise those fingers !

If you have trouble you can ask for the ABILITY to change the setting/customize how YOU want it to be. But please don't change the whole thing because some authors/reviewers such as myself do like the changes. Can't you just move somewhere else if you are that unsatisfied instead of trying to change everything to suit yours and a few other people's wants?

Also note I do love NaruSaku and I'm not trying to start a fight here. I just needed to get that off of my chest. Also sorry for any spelling errors! I'm on my phone...I will edit later though.

Edited by BlackBee, 01 July 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

And about the rant Sakura Blossoms

But Sakura Blossoms PLEASE think about what you are doing!

But the main of this is Sakura Blossoms could you please not try to change the site because you and a few other people are unsatisfied with it?

Umm, yeah okay I somehow have all the sudden power in the world to make FFnet do anything I want, because they've been so good over the last decade at listening to anything its userbase has to say, and actually doing anything that's asked for

And you seem to think that I am somehow the 'ringleader' for people who are not happy with these changes. You've taken what everyone else has said in this thread, and dumped it on my head as if I said I was unhappy with everything that has been talked about. The only thing I've actually stated that I didn't like was forcing people to opt-out of author/story alerts. That's it.

And you also seem to have things more than a bit mixed up. It's not just 'me and a few people'. There has been a mass exodus of writers and readers from FFnet. An entire new website went up in direct response to these 'changes'. Another fiction-hosting website has had to stop allowing invites to join, because of the HUGE influx of people leaving ffnet. There are forum/blogs all over the internet filled with people upset and justifiably angry at these 'changes/fixes', that quite frankly didn't need to take place. FFnet likes to try to 'fix' what isn't broken, and leave things that they should fix to languish indefinitely.

And it actually seems like it's you who are among the 'few' who likes what's going on on FFnet, so please don't come on here, single me out, and try to tell me that I shouldn't exercise my right to speak out in dissatisfaction, to a place that I have been writing my fiction to for well over a decade. If H&E ever started making sudden, random, incomprehensible changes and didn't tell its members why it was doing all that, and many of those changes caused members to leave, I should hope that there would be many members who stood up against the sudden, irrational changes and demand that the changes that are actually hurting the site be removed or changed back.

[BlackBee]

Well you were the one talking about mailing the site and rallying the troops.

Everyone else was talking about just switching sites. And I only addressed you for those things. The rest was addressed to everybody.

And you can speak out. I'm just saying if you're going to complain could you please ask for a compromising solution instead of changing everything back to the old way?

I wasn't even rude. Why are you so angry?

Also you kind of ignored my points about the benefits...I do agree I wish they'd tell us ahead of time about these little changes but I don't think they are detrimental to the whole experience. I can write and upload stories as always and read reviews. And now I can block anon haters while letting good anon reviewers get a say in. And if a bad anon gets in I can remove the review or ignore it.. So I dunno what's so wrong. Think of it like a little thrill or something. You never know what you're gonna see when you log in! (I guess to make this clear this I am saying to EVERYBODY not just you Sakura Blossoms)

Edited by BlackBee, 02 July 2012 - 02:32 AM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Okay I made an account so that I can post here(and made an another is my impatience. Sorry!)

But Sakura Blossoms PLEASE think about what you are doing! There are MILLIONS of users on ff.net. Do you honestly think all of them hate the changes as much as you do?

Speaking from the side who LIKES the changes I'm just saying that you should really see the positive side of some of the changes.

For example, the anon review thing. What is something a lot of authors complain about? Reviews. Authors want more reviews all the time. Problem is a lot of people dont have accounts(and you shouldn't expect them to make one) and some people just don't feel like logging in. So they rely on anon review to state their opinion.

Well I see some of you have all anon reviews blocked so of course they won't review if they cant. I think you may be giving much more credit to trolls and stuff than necessary. I have anon review open and so far I got only two bad anon reviews but they were from self admitted homophobes. So I just ignored them and moved on. I got WAY more positive anon reviews.

But anyway, this moderation partially solves that problem. It allows you to get the reviews you want while blocking the trolls/haters. Isn't that a good thing? I mean it opens the window for more reviews and you know what? If you accidentally let a bad review in you can STILL remove. I'm sorry but I do not see the downside of this.

And about the rant Sakura Blossoms, does that person realize there is a 36 hour window for moderating the reviews? You don't have to check EVERY single second.

The 'thank you on th behalf of the author' is just a polite thing they do. Deviantart has the 'don't forget to comment!' thing when you fav something. It has no impact on anything so...it doesn't bother you all that much does it?

But um...yeah the one thing I hate is the purge. That was horrible since they didn't give out a warning . I wasn't hit by it but people I liked were.

But the main of this is Sakura Blossoms could you please not try to change the site because you and a few other people are unsatisfied with it? Some people actually do find the features easier to use. The commenting thing, that's just a little diction. And if you already have the story on your alerts or favorites then just leave the boxes checked I guess. If not...exercise those fingers !

If you have trouble you can ask for the ABILITY to change the setting/customize how YOU want it to be. But please don't change the whole thing because some authors/reviewers such as myself do like the changes. Can't you just move somewhere else if you are that unsatisfied instead of trying to change everything to suit yours and a few other people's wants?

Also note I do love NaruSaku and I'm not trying to start a fight here. I just needed to get that off of my chest. Also sorry for any spelling errors! I'm on my phone...I will edit later though.

I also agree, leaving boxes unchecked of alerts and favs is the very least of my concerns. And i don't get why people are disliking the image management. I always dreamed of ff.net having a book cover system. It's like going to a book store all over again. The Image is well represented. The only i dislike about it is that if you don't have a book cover or an image available for any stories at the present time. They will use your avatar. It's kind of a nuisance that all your story images will have your avatar. It's like you published and sold all your sorry books and novels on the market with the same cover look. I don't understand why they don't leave any stories without an image of its own blank, instead of using the author's avatar. Quite troublesome, isn't it? The best thing with the new changes. I like how ff.net display the summary on top and centered all the story's content, so that its not spread out like before. It's a benefit if you're using a desktop big wide screen. I know it's easier for me not darting my eyes from left to right of the screen.

The biggest concern for me is the purging of fanfics that are deemed MA. I understand that ff.net does not want to exercise the right of lemons, but forbidding us not to have any physical violence is totally bull and unacceptable. I can't see why they prefer to allow profanity over violence. What's the since of them hosting any shonen manga and anime if violence in fics are banned?

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 01 July 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[BlackBee]

I also agree, leaving boxes unchecked of alerts and favs is the very least of my concerns. And i don't get why people are disliking the image management. I always dreamed of ff.net having a book cover system. It's like going to a book store all over again. The Image is well represented. The only i dislike about it is that if you don't have a book cover or an image available for any stories at the present time. They will use your avatar. It's kind of a nuisance that all your story images will have your avatar. It's like you published and sold all your sorry books and novels on the market with the same cover look. I don't understand why they don't leave any stories without an image of its own blank, instead of using the author's avatar. Quite troublesome, isn't it? The best thing with the new changes. I like how ff.net display the summary on top and centered all the story's content, so that its not spread out like before. It's a benefit if you're using a desktop big wide screen. I know it's easier for me not darting my eyes from left to right of the screen.

The biggest concern for me is the purging of fanfics that are deemed MA. I understand that ff.net does not want to exercise the right of lemons, but forbidding us not to have any physical violence is totally bull and unacceptable. I can't see why they prefer to allow profanity over violence. What's the since of them hosting any shonen manga and anime if violence in fics are banned?

Exactly! I LOVE the image thing! I actually don't mind the avatar mainly because I have no drawing skills so I can't make a decent book cover XD. But I see it like me leaving my mark on my stories. Now people in Naruto and Kyuubi section see an avatar of Naruto looking like 'huh' they can guess its me so..I dunno that just excites me for some reason lol.

Me too ! The layout is MUCH better in my humble opinion. I know the colors aren't colorful but it feels neater, cleaner, and all around better to look at. The desktop thing was a problem and I'm glad they fixed that.

Okay yeah, THAT is the issue I have. I was thankfully safe from the purge but others I know weren't and it was really sad to see old favorites go. In fact I was under the impression that THAT caused all those people to leave and now people are still a bit bitter and are picking at FF.net for every little change because of it. But that's understandable. The guidelines are so vague that a number of things could fit into the M rating. And you have a point that most works like shonen anime, that fanfiction is based off of are pretty violent/sexual themselves. It doesn't make any sense at all to me.

For what its worth I always put warnings up. Now I hope Ff.net will show some courtesy in return.

[kirabook]

Very very few are angry over the images.

The purge, automated things, anonymous reviews, changing events to less prestigious names (comments, really?)


Your idea about why the reviews are suddenly allowed is ridiculous. If an author wanted more reviews including anon ones, then they can enable that feature. I believe that is already default. So unless they intentionally went and made sure anon's can't review, then why they aren't getting reviews is their own fault.

There are legitimate reasons for why some authors do NOT want anon reviews. Why take that away from them? So that people -who already had the option- who want more reviews can get more reviews? Oh, I'm sorry, "comments"? And what does it matter if you can moderate them? The moderation window only last about a day, what if you don't log in that day to delete it? Sorry, too bad for you, review there forever.


The thank you message isn't inherently bad, it is too broad. Are we thanking people for trolling stories now? If they're going to leave an automated message there, at least make it customizable.


Deleting stories that can never ever be recovered with no warning whatsoever is absolutely unacceptable. Customers to their website trust that their stories are safe there, even if they are against the rules. FF.net should have the curtsey to alert their users when there is a problem before they take action. This absolute silence and refusal to address their own base is astonishingly bad.


FF.net will make these kinds of changes to look more like other websites, but they won't do things that the community has requested for years like mass messages to your readers and a place for author notes since they aren't allowed. A more open way to communicate with readers and answer questions in the review section so that you don't have to tarnish your story with a huge authors note on it.

Compared to what they're doing now, these things would be amazingly simple and easy to carry out. But why decide to go a route that will make people upset when you could easily make them happy, just like with the images? Unless they're just so out of touch they don't even know what people on their own site want. Which is probably the case.

[Rocket]

^^ I think the review box was changed back to "reviews", or at least that's what I'm seeing right now. Is it just people who have FF.net accounts that see "comments" instead?

[BlackBee]

Your idea about why the reviews are suddenly allowed is ridiculous. If an author wanted more reviews including anon ones, then they can enable that feature. I believe that is already default. So unless they intentionally went and made sure anon's can't review, then why they aren't getting reviews is their own fault.

Uh...sorry? Did I do something wrong here? You sound angry.

I guess you don't really understand this whole thing lol. I'll explain it bit by bit .

There are legitimate reasons for why some authors do NOT want anon reviews. Why take that away from them? So that people -who already had the option- who want more reviews can get more reviews?

Because it is convenient for everybody. I'm assuming that plenty of authors here want to get better. If you block anon reviews you silence a lot of people who can give legitimate critique to your work. And the ability ISN'T taken away from them. You can still reject anon reviews that you don't want, the site just doesn't do it for you automatically anymore. Now you have the option to allow GOOD and HELPFUL anon reviews be published and bad/trolling ones to be rejected.

It's not about 'more reviews' it's about allowing everybody with some helpful advice or praise to have a say. But at the same time it combats the troll/hater problem by allowing you to put a stop to it.

Oh, I'm sorry, "comments"?

Um...it's just a little word choice lol. And it says 'reviews' again.

And what does it matter if you can moderate them?

It matters a lot. Like I said you can have the helpful anon reviews published and reject the bad ones.

The moderation window only last about a day, what if you don't log in that day to delete it?

It lasts 36 hours which is more than a day.

Sorry, too bad for you, review there forever.

No...Click on reviews, click on remove review, find the story with the anon review you don't like, remove it. They didn't get rid of that part.

Or you could always ignore it.

The thank you message isn't inherently bad, it is too broad. Are we thanking people for trolling stories now? If they're going to leave an automated message there, at least make it customizable.

Uh, are you someone who gets attacked a lot by anon? I mean you really sound like you have a personal problem with this(no offense). Because no, the comment is thanking people for taking the time to comment on your story. It's like the DA thing asking people who favorite devations to comment as well. Common courtesy on the internet!

If you want a customizable 'thank you message' than just do a review reply. This message is obviously meant for everyone who comments and since everyone who comments might not say the same thing, then you can't really 'customize' it anymore than a 'thank you for commenting'!

Deleting stories that can never ever be recovered with no warning whatsoever is absolutely unacceptable.

I don't know about the 'never can be recovered' part. Most smart authors will keep their stories backed-up or something. However I do agree that not giving a warning for deleting a story is a jerk move on their part.

Customers to their website trust that their stories are safe there, even if they are against the rules.

...Uh...that's not exactly how it works. If you break the rules they are under no obligation to be 'nice' to you. Think about it. If a troll came onto this site and caused havoc, should they believe their posts and thoughts and presence or whatever should be 'safe' here too? I think that's a bad example but the point is, if you break the rules, they will screw you over. That's how life works sometimes.

Now what SHOULD incite anger is that the rules when it comes to the rating system are so vague that most people don't even know if they broke the rules or not. Once they get in trouble for that THEN it's understandable why they'd raise a stink and fight back.

FF.net should have the curtsey to alert their users when there is a problem before they take action. This absolute silence and refusal to address their own base is astonishingly bad.

True. I do wish FF.net would warn users if they broke the rules. They should be like Youtube and do a 'three strikes' rule or soemthing like it. One report of your story and then send you a warning detailing what the report said. Two reports and three reports are second and last chances.

And on that note they should also give you a chance to dispute a report as they SHOULD know some people will report stories out spite for the author, trolling, or because they don't agree with some of the things in the story(like homophobia or something).

And while I'm at it, I wish FF.net had a suggestion box .

FF.net will make these kinds of changes to look more like other websites, but they won't do things that the community has requested for years like mass messages to your readers and a place for author notes since they aren't allowed.

The problem with the mass messages to your readers is you can't tell who's reading your story or not. And no I'm not just talking about anon. I've had people with accounts read my stories without me noticing. One of my stories had a follower I didn't know about until I finished it. THEN they added the story(which wasn't on their alerts and that they never reviewed) to their favorites and reviewed it.

And of course, some people just click on a story and click back. So how would to send a message to your readers? By visitors? By alerts? By favorites? Frankly the easiest thing to do is just advertize any changes on your profile and hope they look at it there(or if you know ahead of time, in A/Ns at the beginning or end of a chapter)

On the homepage they have this:

Upcoming:
Stories: Notes feature.
Forums: Improved ban, moderation, and filtering.
Communities: More in-depth filtering.

So they're working on stuff. Have you been to the site at all recently? Or are you hearing this from third parties?

A more open way to communicate with readers and answer questions in the review section so that you don't have to tarnish your story with a huge authors note on it.

Do you know who's working behind the scenes at FF.net? I'm honestly asking because it sounds like you believe there's a large technical team or something when it could be just 5 or 10 people.

I can tell you this. Computer programming is HARD. The things you are asking for also might require a lot of money. So why not just be a little patient? Obviously they are trying to do what they can to help the site and so maybe some stuff will come one day. But for now...

"A more open way to communicate with readers" - You have forums. Every reader with an account can talk to your personally there(and you don't have to worry about anon AT ALL there...).

"Answer questions in the review sections" - This is s good idea but to be honest I don't stress myself out over this. If someone has a question then I answer them in a review reply. If other people have the same question then they can just tell me and I'll answer them just the same. The only review replies I do in an A/N is anon review replies and people who have PMs disabled. But it is a good idea that I would like to see. However you should stress yourself out over it lol . But again, you have forums. Just advertize that all questions are answered there or something.

Compared to what they're doing now, these things would be amazingly simple and easy to carry out.

Computer programming is tough. Especially for a big website that gets a lot of traffic like FF.net. What you are asking for does NOT look all that simple at all(spoken by someone who has tried going the computer programming route).

But why decide to go a route that will make people upset when you could easily make them happy, just like with the images? Unless they're just so out of touch they don't even know what people on their own site want. Which is probably the case.

Because not everyone is upset with the changes? And I'm confused, you JUST said that not many people are upset with the image thing and now you are saying the image thing is a problem? I'm sorry but I don't really get it.

^^ I think the review box was changed back to "reviews", or at least that's what I'm seeing right now. Is it just people who have FF.net accounts that see "comments" instead?

No I see 'reviews' too. Which raises the question again, kirabook have you been on the site recently?

Sorry about all the editing lol.

Edited by BlackBee, 02 July 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[tricksie]

Hmmm....

I think you're missing the big picture, honey. When a site that is kept afloat by user-generated content betrays it's own policies and arbitrarily erases content, it doesn't matter what paltry throw-the-users-a-bone changes they make after the fact.

When users are betrayed, it is very hard to continue being part of that site's community. And on that note, there is no governing body on ff.net, there is no ombudsmen or way to seek recourse if you or your story runs into trouble. It's just a searchable database. It could be so much more....so much more of a resource for writers, not just a site that is built for readers. And hopefully one of the new sites that springs up as a result of ff.net's misstep will be that next generation fanfiction site.

You can debate every point you want. But you're missing the bigger picture of why writers are upset.

What was your ff.net username again? I'd love to read some of your stories. I'd hate to think you signed up for a new account on H&E just to argue about ff.net if you haven't really invested yourself in that site as an author.

[kirabook]

==

Firstly, not angry at all.

Secondly, I allow anon reviews, I don't care that much. But I know some authors receive terrible reviews and anon reviews aren't even enabled for their stories. A "deal with it" attitude isn't going to work. Sure, you can delete the review after you have already seen it's really bad and hurtful. Taking measures that prevent that are important, why take it away for people who want it? I'm on the "I don't care side" and I have never received a terrible review, but I have seen others get said reviews and I understand their situation and where they are coming from completely and so should you.

I work in the IT department at my university, it is NOT that hard to create some of the features that I suggested. Adding the ability to leave a reply on a review in theory is much easier than creating an entirely new feature that involved uploading images to a server and applying said images to only certain stories that a given user might have while at the same time limiting the amount of images they can have based on how many stories they have. It does not take an entire IT department to add simple things, nor does it cost a lot of money.

-They already have a feature that will email/alert users if they subscribe to you period. A simple solution would be to add something that is similar to how a story or community works, but for alerts. For example, you can have a "story" that is simply for author notes or blogs right now, but that is against the rules. But essentially, that is all they would need to do to create a feature like that, or something similar. This is just the simplest way I believe it can be applied.

-For comments, they are already similar to how PM's work. Not too difficult to further merge the two.

-While computer programming is hard, this is not computer programming. I mean, I guess it is, but it's nothing near the level or Java or C#/C++. All it is is a combo of HTML, Javascript, PHP, and probably a few others in there.

36 hours is still not impressive at all. There shouldn't be a time limit on those sorts of things. Period.

Whether you broke a rule or not, you STILL need to alert the user of their crimes before getting rid of it. Some authors do not keep copies of their work once they upload it because they assume it's safe. They assume the owners will take care of their property and won't do something as rash as delete it right away.

I did not say the image thing is a problem. What I am saying is, many people requested something like story covers on FF for a very long time. They finally added that and people were very satisfied. They should focus on the things the community wants rather than change up other features that take away permissions from the user.

The "review" situation was changed back from "comment" either late last night or earlier today. Good thing we know that there are humans working behind that website. And that they can read.

Edited by kirabook, 02 July 2012 - 03:37 AM.

[desaix]

One thing I will say about the ff.net staff is that it had the reputation (from many years ago, back when nc-17\MA rated stories were first removed; I don't know if this is still the case) of deleting stories that were reported for terms violations without even checking to see if there was an actual violation. For this reason, I've never "assumed it was safe" for anything posted on ff.net. The fact that they won't even tell the author why the fic has been removed (at least, this used to be the case; again, my knowledge is largely from years ago on this issue) is pretty bad, too, considering how frequently people have had their fic removed and had no clue why.

The Anon review issue is pretty bad, but I'm not as concerned about that one. That was a feature that was added later, because authors were being flamed or even serious threats were being made by anonymous review, and adding the ability to turn off anon reviews was an attempt to make it so that the AUTHOR didn't have to deal with them; it had nothing to do with whether other reviewers would have a chance to read them. To change the "feature" so that the author MUST read anonymous reviews in order to "moderate" them eliminates the entire reason the option to turn off anonymous reviews was included in the first place.

FF.net is really one of the WORST sites for a fanfic author out there, in terms of technology and moderation, but instead it's the perfect example of the macroeconomic principle of the so-called "QWERTY Effect" in action: Even though it's a poor standard, the impediments to changing (from) it are so great that it's unlikely a change will ever gain proper traction. It's too large to die (short of the admins themselves pulling the plug), and for many fanfic authors it's the only option they have to give their fanfiction an audience, but between the horrible moderation and maintenance routines, it's actually far, far worse than almost every option presented -- those other options just don't have a large enough audience for these fanfic authors to even know about it. Mediaminer was close, at one point, but Mediaminer wasn't exactly much better (the site was born out of a scandal with them misrepresenting themselves in order to acquire the archives of the old usenet group, Rec.Arts.Anime.Creative, and the people who run it were about as closed off from their author base as the ff.net people were), and has now largely fallen into disuse.

[Codus N]

Very very few are angry over the images.

The purge, automated things, anonymous reviews, changing events to less prestigious names (comments, really?)


Your idea about why the reviews are suddenly allowed is ridiculous. If an author wanted more reviews including anon ones, then they can enable that feature. I believe that is already default. So unless they intentionally went and made sure anon's can't review, then why they aren't getting reviews is their own fault.

There are legitimate reasons for why some authors do NOT want anon reviews. Why take that away from them? So that people -who already had the option- who want more reviews can get more reviews? Oh, I'm sorry, "comments"? And what does it matter if you can moderate them? The moderation window only last about a day, what if you don't log in that day to delete it? Sorry, too bad for you, review there forever.


The thank you message isn't inherently bad, it is too broad. Are we thanking people for trolling stories now? If they're going to leave an automated message there, at least make it customizable.


Deleting stories that can never ever be recovered with no warning whatsoever is absolutely unacceptable. Customers to their website trust that their stories are safe there, even if they are against the rules. FF.net should have the curtsey to alert their users when there is a problem before they take action. This absolute silence and refusal to address their own base is astonishingly bad.


FF.net will make these kinds of changes to look more like other websites, but they won't do things that the community has requested for years like mass messages to your readers and a place for author notes since they aren't allowed. A more open way to communicate with readers and answer questions in the review section so that you don't have to tarnish your story with a huge authors note on it.

Compared to what they're doing now, these things would be amazingly simple and easy to carry out. But why decide to go a route that will make people upset when you could easily make them happy, just like with the images? Unless they're just so out of touch they don't even know what people on their own site want. Which is probably the case.

Agreed. Although there are some changes that I do like from FF.net, but this review revamp... is ridiculous. desaix, I definitely agree with you. that QWERTY effect is really hampering. *sigh* part of me really wants to blame the 50 shades author for all this fiasco, but that would be tantamount to a child's tantrum .

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Hmmm....

I think you're missing the big picture, honey. When a site that is kept afloat by user-generated content betrays it's own policies and arbitrarily erases content, it doesn't matter what paltry throw-the-users-a-bone changes they make after the fact.

When users are betrayed, it is very hard to continue being part of that site's community. And on that note, there is no governing body on ff.net, there is no ombudsmen or way to seek recourse if you or your story runs into trouble. It's just a searchable database. It could be so much more....so much more of a resource for writers, not just a site that is built for readers. And hopefully one of the new sites that springs up as a result of ff.net's misstep will be that next generation fanfiction site.

You can debate every point you want. But you're missing the bigger picture of why writers are upset.

What was your ff.net username again? I'd love to read some of your stories. I'd hate to think you signed up for a new account on H&E just to argue about ff.net if you haven't really invested yourself in that site as an author.

And any violent contents are considered Rated MA, like your Voice In the Wind fic and like my Yellow Flash Duo Trilogy. The problem is that they have a big issue to resolve with all shonen manga and anime fanfiction that are deemed to have a significant level of physical violence. Do they realize that Shonen manga and anime are packed with gruesome, blood and gore like we've seen mangas in Naruto, Bleach and many others? Do they expect us to write High School fics now that violence in any form has been banned from their site?

On the other hand, I do agree with BlackBee's opinion on the review system. Actually, I don't really care if us writers can moderate them or not, because i hardly leave any reviews. It's no big deal to me, and you guys are being extremely harsh about it.