216 replies to this topic

[PachucoDesigns]

We gave u proof. You just don't except anything but Sakura vs Hinata. It's like saying your not for sure that a jock could beat up a nerd, but the jock has beat up a lot of other cool guys.


This or being a fanboy

Your "proof" is not proof until there is a metric of comparison to the others. You cannot say where Hinata stands if she's had few fights in the first place. Nor can you say that Sakura is stronger than her if you don't know where she stands. Everything you are saying is opinion.

[Nate River]

We gave u proof. You just don't except anything but Sakura vs Hinata. It's like saying your not for sure that a jock could beat up a nerd, but the jock has beat up a lot of other cool guys.


This or being a fanboy

Sorry, huge pet peeve, dood. I got to do it.

It's accept, not except.

[Derock]

Ok, people. Thanks to Databook 3, I calculated the overall ratings of the Konoha 11's stats and found out there are a lot of draws.

Official list of the Konoha 11, according to Databook 3:

1) Neji
2) Sakura
3) Shikamaru
4) Tie between Lee and Kiba
5) Hinata
6) Tie between Ino and Shino
7) Tie between Chouji and Tenten


I have this to say: there are too many ties, shouldn't Lee be higher, almost near where Neji and Sakura are at top? Chouji, Ino, Shino and Tenten needs a very big boost whenever we get a databook 4. So from this conclusion, Sakura is on the top-tier, even if she gets a slight boost, but she won't get past Neji. Same for Shikamaru when he gets a boost. Now for Hinata, she's looks mid-tier on the list because of all of those ties on the bottom. Chouji and possibly Tenten needs to be much higher because it looks embarassing for them.

The list gets worse when you add in Sai, Temari and Kankuro.

[FoolishYoungling]

Sorry, huge pet peeve, dood. I got to do it.

It's accept, not except.

*gives 50 internet points*

Ok, people. Thanks to Databook 3, I calculated the overall ratings of the Konoha 11's stats and found out there are a lot of draws.

Official list of the Konoha 11, according to Databook 3:

1) Neji
2) Sakura
3) Shikamaru
4) Tie between Lee and Kiba
5) Hinata
6) Tie between Ino and Shino
7) Tie between Chouji and Tenten


I have this to say: there are too many ties, shouldn't Lee be higher, almost near where Neji and Sakura are at top? Chouji, Ino, Shino and Tenten needs a very big boost whenever we get a databook 4. So from this conclusion, Sakura is on the top-tier, even if she gets a slight boost, but she won't get past Neji. Same for Shikamaru. Now for Hinata, she's looks mid-tier on the list because of all of those ties on the bottom. Chouji and possibly Tenten needs to be much higher because it looks embarassing.

The list gets worse when you add in Sai, Temari and Kankuro.

Sakura above Shikamaru, and Lee? *Sakura fanboy mode activated* YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS BAAAAABBBBBBYYYYY!!!!

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 30 March 2012 - 03:35 AM.

[Fenris]

Ok, people. Thanks to Databook 3, I calculated the overall ratings of the Konoha 11's stats and found out there are a lot of draws.

Official list of the Konoha 11, according to Databook 3:

1) Neji
2) Sakura
3) Shikamaru
4) Tie between Lee and Kiba
5) Hinata
6) Tie between Ino and Shino
7) Tie between Chouji and Tenten


I have this to say: there are too many ties, shouldn't Lee be higher, almost near where Neji and Sakura are at top? Chouji, Ino, Shino and Tenten needs a very big boost whenever we get a databook 4. So from this conclusion, Sakura is on the top-tier, even if she gets a slight boost, but she won't get past Neji. Same for Shikamaru when he gets a boost. Now for Hinata, she's looks mid-tier on the list because of all of those ties on the bottom. Chouji and possibly Tenten needs to be much higher because it looks embarassing for them.

The list gets worse when you add in Sai, Temari and Kankuro.

At least Sakura is higher than Hinata. I feel like a proud mother.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Your "proof" is not proof until there is a metric of comparison to the others. You cannot say where Hinata stands if she's had few fights in the first place. Nor can you say that Sakura is stronger than her if you don't know where she stands. Everything you are saying is opinion.

You know, there is one thing that I can prove. Sakura is a better strategist/thinks things through more than Hinata does.

Chiyo and Sakura vs. Sasori: Sakura thinks before making her moves, never blindly charging in.
Hinata vs. Pein: Hinata confesses, then blindly charges Pein with no other plan than "hit him and he goes 'boom'!". Promptly proceeds to be Fus-Ro-Dahed. (yes, that reference was influenced by a certain video)

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 30 March 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Nate River]

Ok, people. Thanks to Databook 3, I calculated the overall ratings of the Konoha 11's stats and found out there are a lot of draws.

Official list of the Konoha 11, according to Databook 3:

1) Neji
2) Sakura
3) Shikamaru
4) Tie between Lee and Kiba
5) Hinata
6) Tie between Ino and Shino
7) Tie between Chouji and Tenten


I have this to say: there are too many ties, shouldn't Lee be higher, almost near where Neji and Sakura are at top? Chouji, Ino, Shino and Tenten needs a very big boost whenever we get a databook 4. So from this conclusion, Sakura is on the top-tier, even if she gets a slight boost, but she won't get past Neji. Same for Shikamaru when he gets a boost. Now for Hinata, she's looks mid-tier on the list because of all of those ties on the bottom. Chouji and possibly Tenten needs to be much higher because it looks embarassing for them.

The list gets worse when you add in Sai, Temari and Kankuro.

Well, since I don't have ready access to databook three, I'm going to ask the obvious what are the "ratings" and how did you use them to come to that order?

If what you say is the case, I'd have to say TenTen and Shino get screwed. Shino is portrayed as highly intelligent and skilled. He wins both his feature fights (though it is Part 1), which is more than Ino and Kiba can say. He seems way too low.

And TenTen....just can't catch a break can she? I hate to use the phrase token female, but geez. No development, no surname, no manga feature fight, and virtually dead last.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Neji tops the list.
Knew it.

[FoolishYoungling]

Neji tops the list.
Knew it.

^ this

[PachucoDesigns]

Neji tops the list.
Knew it.

Of course Neji tops the list. Anything else would pretty much be nonsense. He has the best balance out of everyone, and the coolest head. The only one who has ever really overshadowed him from the beginning was Sasuke, and even that was up in the air at first.

[Broken Figurine]

Pachuco, there you go, the only possible "metric" comparison between the characters, as provided by Derock. What you're asking for is too much. It's been repeated that it's difficult to match who ranks where just based on the manga, and that the only way to do it is via "opinions" and fan-speculation. You say that she could be as strong or stronger, but if we're going by what's in the manga, no, she's not. In the same way, I could take any minor character and speculate that they are more powerful than the Konoha 11 simply because we don't know that they're not. It's easier to point out what abilities we HAVE seen, and compare them to the other characters that we've seen. This is useful to point out, because it shows how much we know vs how much we don't and can only assume. The opinions that are considered are the ones that are supported by some logic or evidence, which is why we have these discussions. Which is why we have ANY discussion. You can say that Hinata is potentially the stronger character, but by what reasoning? People have provided their opinions why they don't think so, considering everything they've seen. I could make up that Hinata has super healing ability that we've never seen. I can make up that she's actually super-duper strong, enough to counter Sakura's strength, but that wouldn't make sense because we have never seen anything like it in the manga. You're so insistent about it, but I've seen people give you good enough reasons, and yet you ask for more. No, we can't know anything FOR SURE, but we can say what makes more sense. It's pretty much how any discussion works here.

[Darth Krypt]

Well, since I don't have ready access to databook three, I'm going to ask the obvious what are the "ratings" and how did you use them to come to that order?

If what you say is the case, I'd have to say TenTen and Shino get screwed. Shino is portrayed as highly intelligent and skilled. He wins both his feature fights (though it is Part 1), which is more than Ino and Kiba can say. He seems way too low.

And TenTen....just can't catch a break can she? I hate to use the phrase token female, but geez. No development, no surname, no manga feature fight, and virtually dead last.

I think he compiled all the different stats to create an overall point system. Attributes like genjutsu, taijutsu, ninjutsu, speed etc so even if you're good at one but suck at all the rest, then you wont be ranked high. I think that's why Lee isn't that high since he has zero ninjutsu and genjutsu so those 2 attributes brought him down.

You're right, save for Sakura who is ranked second to Neji, all the girls are ranked last.

[Derock]

Well, since I don't have ready access to databook three, I'm going to ask the obvious what are the "ratings" and how did you use them to come to that order?

If what you say is the case, I'd have to say TenTen and Shino get screwed. Shino is portrayed as highly intelligent and skilled. He wins both his feature fights (though it is Part 1), which is more than Ino and Kiba can say. He seems way too low.

And TenTen....just can't catch a break can she? I hate to use the phrase token female, but geez. No development, no surname, no manga feature fight, and virtually dead last.

When I meant ratings, I meant their overall stats. Once I got everyone's stats, I did the basic thing, list them from greatest to least. Shino was definitely a shocker for me as well, because I thought he will be on top because of his intelligence. But here's the reason why he's on the bottom tier: his taijutsu and strength numbers sucked, badly.

You're right, save for Sakura who is ranked second to Neji, all the girls are ranked last.

Yep, Tenten is at the very bottom. Ino is there too, but if I did the list in alphabetical order to get rid of the draws, Ino is placed right behind Hinata.

[PachucoDesigns]

Pachuco, there you go, the only possible "metric" comparison between the characters, as provided by Derock. What you're asking for is too much. It's been repeated that it's difficult to match who ranks where just based on the manga, and that the only way to do it is via "opinions" and fan-speculation. You say that she could be as strong or stronger, but if we're going by what's in the manga, no, she's not. In the same way, I could take any minor character and speculate that they are more powerful than the Konoha 11 simply because we don't know that they're not. It's easier to point out what abilities we HAVE seen, and compare them to the other characters that we've seen. This is useful to point out, because it shows how much we know vs how much we don't and can only assume. The opinions that are considered are the ones that are supported by some logic or evidence, which is why we have these discussions. Which is why we have ANY discussion. You can say that Hinata is potentially the stronger character, but by what reasoning? People have provided their opinions why they don't think so, considering everything they've seen. I could make up that Hinata has super healing ability that we've never seen. I can make up that she's actually super-duper strong, enough to counter Sakura's strength, but that wouldn't make sense because we have never seen anything like it in the manga. You're so insistent about it, but I've seen people give you good enough reasons, and yet you ask for more. No, we can't know anything FOR SURE, but we can say what makes more sense. It's pretty much how any discussion works here.

Then I repeat: If the only authoritative source is the data book because it came straight from Kishimoto's mind, and if only Kishimoto can make good on it, then this isn't a matter of opinion, is it? If the only possible way to know is "because Kishi said so," then what good does it do to discuss it in the first place? A poll like this is just a loaded question, and virtually every fan website proves it. The OP most often knows what the answers will be, or can at least make a very good guess. If it's going to start off largely in favor of a single character, and largely against another, and if someone is just going to end up presenting the data book figures in the end, then what is the point?

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 30 March 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Then I repeat: If the only authoritative source is the data book because it came straight from Kishimoto's mind, and if only Kishimoto can make good on it, then this isn't a matter of opinion, is it? If the only possible way to know is "because Kishi said so," then what good does it to to discuss it in the first place? Every question I've ever seen like this at any fan website is loaded as hell. The OP most often knows what the answers will be, or can at least make a very good guess. If it's going to start off largely in favor of a single character, and largely against another, and if someone is just going to end up presenting the data book figures in the end, then what is the point?

Someone being proven right is the point, I think.

[PachucoDesigns]

Someone being proven right is the point, I think.

Someone being proven right? If the data book is the final word, then it was never up for debate in the first place! It's basically saying that opinion is not welcome. There is no point.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Someone being proven right? If the data book is the final word, then it was never up for debate in the first place! It's basically saying that opinion is not welcome. There is no point.

Ok, then it wasn't up for debate in the first place, and opinion isn't welcome on this subject. Sakura is stronger than Hinata. We can't argue that. Moving on?

[Nate River]

I think he compiled all the different stats to create an overall point system. Attributes like genjutsu, taijutsu, ninjutsu, speed etc so even if you're good at one but suck at all the rest, then you wont be ranked high. I think that's why Lee isn't that high since he has zero ninjutsu and genjutsu so those 2 attributes brought him down.

You're right, save for Sakura who is ranked second to Neji, all the girls are ranked last.

I really wasn't commenting on Ino or Sakura. Just Tenten. I expected Ino to be toward the bottom since her skill set isn't really geared toward combat. It's more effective for interrogation and infiltration purposes.

I can guess why Tenten is though: she's a one dimensional fighter.

I was just commenting on the fact that no matter which way you slice it, TenTen gets screwed. It's the final "injustice" for character.

[Broken Figurine]

Then I repeat: If the only authoritative source is the data book because it came straight from Kishimoto's mind, and if only Kishimoto can make good on it, then this isn't a matter of opinion, is it? If the only possible way to know is "because Kishi said so," then what good does it to to discuss it in the first place? Every question I've ever seen like this at any fan website is loaded as hell. The OP most often knows what the answers will be, or can at least make a very good guess. If it's going to start off largely in favor of a single character, and largely against another, and if someone is just going to end up presenting the data book figures in the end, then what is the point?

Because in case you haven't noticed, there is a lot that Kishimoto DOESN'T say. There is a lot in literatue, in life, in anything that can be interpreted every which way, but we need something to fall back on that isn't mass wild guessing. What else would we use outside of the manga or any other Naruto canon? Fanfiction? Fans get together and speculate things, and they argue in favour of for or against whatever the topic is. Go on other sites and I'm sure you'll find people who favour Hinata and have their opinions on it. I find it funny how you argue so much about her place, but when you see that Neji is on top it's all "of course!" and you accept that most of us have figured Neji is somewhere on the top. Where do you get your ideas that he's the most balanced character? It's the same way we came to our conclusion that Sakura is also a stronger character than the others. There would be no discussion about anything if we didn't have these grey areas. Derock pulled up the database because that's the closest we have to what the canon material says about who is who, but look, even now we're contesting it and trying to figure it out. It's what active readers do. I don't understand why this is something new to you.

[PachucoDesigns]

Ok, then it wasn't up for debate in the first place, and opinion isn't welcome on this subject. Sakura is stronger than Hinata. We can't argue that. Moving on?

Exactly. Therefore, this thread didn't even need to exist.