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#121 Derock

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE (James S Cassidy @ Jun 3 2011, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seems there is still this weird agreement both parties can't decide on. Naruto can;t get it through his head that everyone is not JUST fighting for his sake, but for everyone's sake as well. And some of the generals don't get that Naruto is probably the only one who can stop it despite the risks it has. They can't find that middle ground and both are being selfish in an unselfish way...if anyone can understand what I mean here.


Here's the little problem with this theory: Do you want the main character (who's has his name as the title of the story) stay around being protected somewhere off where the battlefield while he's suppose to be the main hero? Do you want him as a wuss? Or that main hero status should be taken away from him to someone like Kakashi or better yet, Sasuke of all people, like many fans claiming that many arcs ago?

Main heroes never stand in one place and feel like that they need to be protected. They have to take risks in order to protect their loved ones.

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#122 Living Lavish

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 06:24 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Jun 4 2011, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, it probably doesn't help that Gaara and Iruka said point blank to his face that this war was to protect him specifically, but I agree nevertheless.

For me, there are two kinds of pairing moments :

a) an instance in which one character bonds with another, resulting in a growth of their relationship
b) an instance in which romantic feelings from one character is shown / hinted at toward another

The NH and SS moments that you are referring to fall under the second.

This is also why I don't really think the panel of Sakura counts as a pairing moment - sure, you could argue that it's from Naruto's thoughts, and she's the only one he thought of by herself and the fact that she came last, but then that could be countered with - but she's the only rookie nine in that area to begin with.

But I agree that it's frustrating that many people seem to brush away NS moments as all friendship bonding while hyping every NH and SS moment. My response is always, "What makes that scene a pairing moment?" And then point out how it applies to the scene that they are trying to brush off. Like the one of Hinata blushing and telling Naruto that it's good to work with him, and then he smiles back at her and says, "Yeah". The blushing from Hinata indicates romantic feelings on her part, so it's a pairing moment. So then that feeding scene that everyone loves to say is just Sakura helping a hurt friend is also a pairing moment, because Naruto is likewise blushing and indicating romantic feelings from his side.

Obviously there are other things that make the feeding scene more of a legitimate pairing moment than the NH one (such as the cultural implications of a girl feeding a boy or Sakura's expression as she makes the offer), but the above is something that can't really be argued against unless they want to claim their NH moment is also not a moment.


yeah but he thought of her last close up. so that means hes focused on her.
its not a moment tho.

Edited by Living Lavish, 04 June 2011 - 06:25 PM.


#123 merryGOflava

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 06:32 PM

QUOTE (Derock @ Jun 4 2011, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's the little problem with this theory: Do you want the main character (who's has his name as the title of the story) stay around being protected somewhere off where the battlefield while he's suppose to be the main hero? Do you want him as a wuss? Or that main hero status should be taken away from him to someone like Kakashi or better yet, Sasuke of all people, like many fans claiming that many arcs ago?

Main heroes never stand in one place and feel like that they need to be protected. They have to take risks in order to protect their loved ones.


i agree it would be boring if he stayed in that turtle biggrin.gif glad hes out >:3

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#124 catsi563

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 06:43 PM

for story purposes alone he wouldnt stay bottled up for long. Hed either be brought out of hiding ala luke in Staw Wars by the torture of his friends, or the hiding place would be compromised forcing him to show himself.

Inevitably the Hero would be drawn out to confront the villain. This could end in a Darth vader luke scenario with Naruto winning a semi pyrric victory or suffering a defeat of some sort that forces the alliance to a new strategy.

Or it could work towards a final confrontation with the true final antagonist in this case Sasuke.
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#125 James S Cassidy

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 07:13 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Jun 4 2011, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But I agree that it's frustrating that many people seem to brush away NS moments as all friendship bonding while hyping every NH and SS moment. My response is always, "What makes that scene a pairing moment?" And then point out how it applies to the scene that they are trying to brush off. Like the one of Hinata blushing and telling Naruto that it's good to work with him, and then he smiles back at her and says, "Yeah". The blushing from Hinata indicates romantic feelings on her part, so it's a pairing moment. So then that feeding scene that everyone loves to say is just Sakura helping a hurt friend is also a pairing moment, because Naruto is likewise blushing and indicating romantic feelings from his side.

Obviously there are other things that make the feeding scene more of a legitimate pairing moment than the NH one (such as the cultural implications of a girl feeding a boy or Sakura's expression as she makes the offer), but the above is something that can't really be argued against unless they want to claim their NH moment is also not a moment.


I understand and yeah that would more or less prove a pairing scene, but going back to chapter 540 when Sakura thought of Sasuke, she neither blushed nor had any emotion progress supporting SS. In fact, if we go by the logic you gave us, it actually hurts SS regardless if you look at it face value or something deeper.

I just keep thinking after a while now is what evidence supports a pairing and what doesn't. I keep thinking about it and the more I do, the more I realize that while at first glance they support they actually hurt the pairing support.

You are also right that it seems that the other pairings, what ever logic they use, they only like to apply it to their pairing and not to the others.

"Sakura thinks of Sasuke, so she must be in love."
Also "Hinata thinks of Naruto, so she must be in love."

Well Naruto thinks of Sakura a lot and very few times of Hinata. He seems to always think of her separately too when ever he thinks of people and never in a group like the others. Sakura has also thought about Naruto a few times. "Well that's teammate concern." And how does this not apply to Sasuke? He was a teammate too.

"Hinata blushes around Naruto."

Yeah Sakura blushes around Naruto too.

Almost every argument they use they never apply to the others pairings and I am starting to say to people "Whatever argument you want to use, you have to apply to everything and look at everything." Just like you said

QUOTE (Derock @ Jun 4 2011, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's the little problem with this theory: Do you want the main character (who's has his name as the title of the story) stay around being protected somewhere off where the battlefield while he's suppose to be the main hero? Do you want him as a wuss? Or that main hero status should be taken away from him to someone like Kakashi or better yet, Sasuke of all people, like many fans claiming that many arcs ago?

Main heroes never stand in one place and feel like that they need to be protected. They have to take risks in order to protect their loved ones.


It's not really a theory. More like what the situation is.

I am not saying anything about that. I am saying that both sides can;t agree on this middle ground that maybe they need Naruto to end the war, but also that Naruto needs to learn that he is not the only one who is fighting it. So instead of arguing what to do with Naruto and Bee. How about they all fight together and win indefinitely.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 June 2011 - 10:32 PM.

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#126 Amrikandesi93

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:23 PM

I don't think that panel of Sakura thinking of sasuke was a SS moment, b/c if someone is thinking of someone they love than why would they have fire around them?
I think it was Sakura thinking about how she used to "love" sasuke though he was not a great guy.
Maybe the panel of Naruto thinking of Sakura wasn't a NS moment, but it does bring the question of why his last panel brings up only her. I mean Shizune is also with Sakura, and he calls her nee-chan doesn't he? So she is important to him, i mean he doesnt even know shino and he is in there with hinata. plus Sakura has a close up so it obviouslt means he thinks of her more than the others.

The Raikage is doing what he as a general of an army thinks is the best thing to make sure his side wins the war. something like taking one life(Naruto) in order to save a lot of lives. Making sure madara can't get the kyubbi means they might have an edge or something. Its kinda like Itachi killing off his whole clan to make sure that the entire village stays peaceful.

Just my thoughts

#127 James S Cassidy

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE (Amrikandesi93 @ Jun 4 2011, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think that panel of Sakura thinking of sasuke was a SS moment, b/c if someone is thinking of someone they love than why would they have fire around them?
I think it was Sakura thinking about how she used to "love" sasuke though he was not a great guy.
Maybe the panel of Naruto thinking of Sakura wasn't a NS moment, but it does bring the question of why his last panel brings up only her. I mean Shizune is also with Sakura, and he calls her nee-chan doesn't he? So she is important to him, i mean he doesnt even know shino and he is in there with hinata. plus Sakura has a close up so it obviouslt means he thinks of her more than the others.


Yeah. We don't know what is a moment and what isn't. Face value doesn't seem to work because it leaves everything so ambiguous and no one can truly pick and choose what should be taken face value and what shouldn't be.

I am going to try to not over hype something anymore when it comes to these moments. Unless we have definitive proof...everything is just thought noise.
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#128 ciardha

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE (Amrikandesi93 @ Jun 4 2011, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think that panel of Sakura thinking of sasuke was a SS moment, b/c if someone is thinking of someone they love than why would they have fire around them? I think it was Sakura thinking about how she used to "love" sasuke though he was not a great guy.


Plus she looks sick and depressed, not just depressed, but like the very reminder of her one sided crush on Sasuke makes her feel sick and ashamed. It's strongly anti sasusaku.

QUOTE (Amrikandesi93 @ Jun 4 2011, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe the panel of Naruto thinking of Sakura wasn't a NS moment, but it does bring the question of why his last panel brings up only her. I mean Shizune is also with Sakura, and he calls her nee-chan doesn't he? So she is important to him, i mean he doesnt even know shino and he is in there with hinata. plus Sakura has a close up so it obviously means he thinks of her more than the others.


Yeah, it's not directly narusaku, but we know he loves her, and he knows now she loves him, so it's sort of- "there she is", focusing in on her.

Edited by ciardha, 05 June 2011 - 01:31 AM.

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#129 Darth Krypt

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 09:05 AM

I won't count that panel as a NS moment. Its not really definite or obvious for me.

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#130 Codus N

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Dreamer @ Jun 5 2011, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Naruto can power up Kyubi Chakra/RM Mode?

Found this interesting, so Naruto could possibly speed blitz Ei.


Yeah, I think it could very well happen in the next chapter. Oh yeah, your sig..... nosebleed8rx.gif nosebleed8rx.gif nosebleed8rx.gif *great I'm getting a boner here....*

QUOTE (Derock @ Jun 5 2011, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's the little problem with this theory: Do you want the main character (who's has his name as the title of the story) stay around being protected somewhere off where the battlefield while he's suppose to be the main hero? Do you want him as a wuss? Or that main hero status should be taken away from him to someone like Kakashi or better yet, Sasuke of all people, like many fans claiming that many arcs ago?

Main heroes never stand in one place and feel like that they need to be protected. They have to take risks in order to protect their loved ones.


If I could, I'd rather have had him at least finish the Bijuudama training first and THEN get the hell outta there.

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#131 RedDelicious

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE (Amrikandesi93 @ Jun 4 2011, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think that panel of Sakura thinking of sasuke was a SS moment, b/c if someone is thinking of someone they love than why would they have fire around them?

I suspect that some people think of love (in literature) as being in anguish due to someone else. The greater the suffering, the stronger the passion. This also ties into the "forbidden love" trope.

I don't agree with this. But I suspect this sort of attitude influences what are considered moments.
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#132 merryGOflava

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 06:00 PM

:3 sakura's done more things for naruto than shes done for sasuke biggrin.gif everytime i envision the future of naruto, i can only see naruto and sakura both happy biggrin.gif

dont forget sasuke doesnt like sakura

sakura is falling for naruto even if it isnt now

naruto likes only sakura

and hinata is a side-character that likes naruto like how Lee likes sakura

it only points to narusaku (i just want it to hurry up already!!)

that picture with sasuke only had her sad and we all want sakura happy biggrin.gif

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#133 alexander

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 07:05 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jun 5 2011, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, it's not directly narusaku, but we know he loves her, and he knows now she loves him, so it's sort of- "there she is", focusing in on her.


Ciardha, pardon for saying things this way, but, don't you think it's an little hypocrital for you to say things like that? I mean, you aways saying that NH and SS fan are wrong or being delusional for thinking that just because Naruto thinks of Hinata or Sakura thinks about Sasuke, it doesn't means is an big moment and that their feelings for each other are absolute. But doesn't the same goes for NS? Just because Naruto thinks of Sakura, doesn't mean nothing at all, we are in the end just reading too much into things. We can't just go around saying that they love each other before something more solid happens. I just think we need to wait something bigger to happen before going to make more assumptions.

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#134 Super Boom

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (alexander @ Jun 5 2011, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ciardha, pardon for saying things this way, but, don't you think it's an little hypocrital for you to say things like that? I mean, you aways saying that NH and SS fan are wrong or being delusional for thinking that just because Naruto thinks of Hinata or Sakura thinks about Sasuke, it doesn't means is an big moment and that their feelings for each other are absolute. But doesn't the same goes for NS? Just because Naruto thinks of Sakura, doesn't mean nothing at all, we are in the end just reading too much into things. We can't just go around saying that they love each other before something more solid happens. I just think we need to wait something bigger to happen before going to make more assumptions.


I might be wrong, but I think she was more just pointing out that the thought panel doesn't necessarily flat out support NS, but it is relevant if taken into the context of previous development.
Naruto's been stated canonically to be in love with Sakura. To me, and a lot of others I assume, Sai's flashback and conversation with Sakura proved that his feelings are more than just a crush, he's truly and selflessly in love with her. As for Sakura, her feelings are that of genuine concern, and I feel that it's been more than implied on several occasions that she seems him as more than a friend. I'm not sure if she's 100% in love with Naruto, and if she is, I'm not 100% sure that Naruto is aware of it (although I think he might have a idea). But due to duo's feelings for each other, the panel can be seen as fairly important.
But you're right, we really shouldn't make vast assumptions based on stuff like this. I think a lot of us here are just starved for Naruto/Sakura interaction, LOL.

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#135 merryGOflava

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 07:54 PM

this disease is called

narusaku deprived..T^T it can be fatal to some...the only cure NARUSAKU MOMENTS!! rawr.gif

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#136 ciardha

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:51 AM

QUOTE (alexander @ Jun 5 2011, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ciardha, pardon for saying things this way, but, don't you think it's an little hypocrital for you to say things like that?


rolleyes.gif Uh no. Canon proof Naruto is in love with Sakura, canon proof Sakura knows Naruto loves her, canon proof Sakura loves Naruto, canon proof he knows it and believes it.

One can be be so overly cautious that one ignores what is canon in manga, the only pairing I know that is plagued by this irritating tendency is narusaku (well, and to a lesser degree Jiratsu) Actually, I've seen this in any fandom where the girl is strong willed (even back as far as Ranma 1/2... with Akane) and it's not just in shonen manga fandoms, but also in shoujo manga fandoms, where the tsundere type is more tomboyish than and less with the violent temper played for humor) hysterically funny in retrospective (but aggravating at the time) in Fushigi Yuugi fandom, there were people who called themselves Miakax Tamahome/Taka shippers, but they'd be posting "Oh I don't know if Miaka and Tamahome/Taka are in really in love with each other." "I don't know if Tamahome/Taka knows if Miaka is in love with him, etc..."

Boom winning is mostly correct about the context I was putting it in. (you are missing canon context not only in the manga, but when people make narusaku comments about canon character development) it's not an overt narusaku moment, but is a reflection their new status- see above. It's just a "oh there she is" type panel, not a romantic one.

Edited by ciardha, 06 June 2011 - 09:09 AM.

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#137 Gravenimage

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 10:38 AM

QUOTE (Kim @ Jun 5 2011, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is so very true. Narusaku fans can be skeptical and even believe some moments favour some other pairing. On the contrary, other Naruto shippers are so sure of themselves they declare victory at even the smallest, insignificant and equivocate matter.


I'll say like that NH fan that came to the forum on the day 540 was released and started rubbing it in all of our faces that NS is dead and NH SS was canon. rolleyes.gif he was THAT sure it was true but how many times has it happened that other fandoms believe NS to be dead for sure and it always ends up bad for them because Kishi always proves them wrong? kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

Edited by Gravenimage, 06 June 2011 - 10:39 AM.

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#138 Hokage Sennin

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Jun 6 2011, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll say like that NH fan that came to the forum on the day 540 was released and started rubbing it in all of our faces that NS is dead and NH SS was canon. rolleyes.gif he was THAT sure it was true but how many times has it happened that other fandoms believe NS to be dead for sure and it always ends up bad for them because Kishi always proves them wrong? kruemelmonsteryn0.gif


I really hope that Kishi will not do a combo breaker this time. kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

#139 Bingu

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Jun 6 2011, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll say like that NH fan that came to the forum on the day 540 was released and started rubbing it in all of our faces that NS is dead and NH SS was canon. rolleyes.gif he was THAT sure it was true but how many times has it happened that other fandoms believe NS to be dead for sure and it always ends up bad for them because Kishi always proves them wrong? kruemelmonsteryn0.gif



haha yeah that poor guy he doesnt understand a womans heart at all, If a girl i liked looked like that thinking of me i wouldnt really jump around proclaiming she loves me even with the prior statement to that lovernin fodder guy cool.gif

#140 Strangelove

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE (Hokage Sennin @ Jun 6 2011, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really hope that Kishi will not do a combo breaker this time. kruemelmonsteryn0.gif



Even if NS is dead, doesn't mean NH and SS are canon. The biggest blow to SS was when Sasuke tried to kill Sakura...i think that should have put the nail in the coffin.

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