206 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

I would be pissed if Sasuke even got one tiny piece of redemption. Does anyone actually think that Sasuke deserves to be redeemed after all the crimes he committed? I'm just saying that it would be stupid for Kishi to give him redemption whether he dies or not in my opinion. I believe that it would make more sense if Sasuke died and Naruto failed to save him from the darkness. This is the only goal that Naruto has that I want to see him fail at because it would teach him a lesson that even he can't change and save everyone if a person is unwilling to change or be saved. It's completely idiotic to even want to save someone who is an utterly unlikable emo douche bag. I'm sorry but I just can't see redemption for Sasuke as a plausible outcome. Maybe if Kishimoto actually did a good job at portraying Sasuke as a likable character with redeeming qualities that readers could sympathize with instead of a generic whiny a**hole who can't let go of the past then maybe I could have seen his redemption as a possibility. Unfortunately that is not the case hear.

It's all bashing, and I agree with it 100 f***ing percent.

[merryGOflava]

come on dont bash some ppl might actually like sasuke *cough me cough* im no complete fan, but i dont hate him.

[Madz]

I'm just following where Kishi is driving us concerning Sasuke. Each one of us of course have our opinions and preferences, but right now, I re-iterate that KISHI has NOT yet turned Sasuke into a non-return limit.
And again - as per old Japanese stories (and most old eastern stories, by the way), revenge was considered to be heroic and honorable.
Kishi has written all of Sasuke's experience to be appalling, leaving no route for him but to go in this path - AND as I said earlier, Kishi has always retracted when he had the opportunity to topple Sasuke over the non-return limit (I'm sorry, but sprouting vague threats without action yet cannot be considered sentencable in the Naruto world).
And I'm NOT going in the rightness of killing Danzo - that man was already an enemy of the alliance at the time Sasuke killed him, for Pete's sake.
Don't forget that as at NOW, Sasuke does not know about Maadara being behind the first Kyuubi attack (Maadara lied to him about this), he does NOT know about Maadara crazy moon mission, heck he does not even know that there is a WAR going on. He does not know that Maadara has basically sold him to Kabuto...!
Kishi must have a reason behind all this. I'm just closely following the AUTHOR's cue. Sasuke's NEXT action will be determining.

[Madz]

QUOTE (K9ofChaos @ Apr 11 2011, 04:03 PM) *
I would be pissed if Sasuke even got one tiny piece of redemption. Does anyone actually think that Sasuke deserves to be redeemed after all the crimes he committed? I'm just saying that it would be stupid for Kishi to give him redemption whether he dies or not in my opinion. I believe that it would make more sense if Sasuke died and Naruto failed to save him from the darkness.
QUOTE




I had to smile reading all this. I have so often debated very similar comments from Naruhina fans while they bash Sakura, (just switch Sasuke's name with Sakura's and switch some words like 'redemption' with "Naruto's love" etc).

I think one should always look at things with an open mind and at all angles.

[merryGOflava]

theres still so much sasuke doesnt know. hes going in head first not knowing about madara's true plans. that just proves sasuke needs a quick wake up call to reality, then he can decide for himself.

[ShippudenGirl]

... Still think Sasuke is screwed either way. I mean, sure you can say he is redeemable but hell, he attacked all the Hokages. That's like some guy shooting up the white house full of world leaders — you think if Sasuke "killed" or "help kills" Madara will redeem him? I'm just saying that he won't be forgiven, at least definitely not easily. It'd be poor writing. Of course I can take another route with this... There are those movies where they make these men in jail become super agents to redeem themselves, 'course, like I said again, they usually aren't the ones who were crazy enough to try and kill the president (Hokage).

[Darth Krypt]

There are those movies where they make these men in jail become super agents to redeem themselves, 'course, like I said again, they usually aren't the ones who were crazy enough to try and kill the president (Hokage).

Ooohh White Collar! But thats a series not a movie.

[ShippudenGirl]

I meant something like XXX or whatever. I don't know what White Collar is, lol

[Darth Krypt]

I meant something like XXX or whatever. I don't know what White Collar is, lol

Its about a thief and a forger who now works for the FBI to help them catch criminals to redeem himself. Hmm he's not murderer and kidnapper like Sasuke though.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I'm just following where Kishi is driving us concerning Sasuke. Each one of us of course have our opinions and preferences, but right now, I re-iterate that KISHI has NOT yet turned Sasuke into a non-return limit.
And again - as per old Japanese stories (and most old eastern stories, by the way), revenge was considered to be heroic and honorable.
Kishi has written all of Sasuke's experience to be appalling, leaving no route for him but to go in this path - AND as I said earlier, Kishi has always retracted when he had the opportunity to topple Sasuke over the non-return limit (I'm sorry, but sprouting vague threats without action yet cannot be considered sentencable in the Naruto world).
And I'm NOT going in the rightness of killing Danzo - that man was already an enemy of the alliance at the time Sasuke killed him, for Pete's sake.
Don't forget that as at NOW, Sasuke does not know about Maadara being behind the first Kyuubi attack (Maadara lied to him about this), he does NOT know about Maadara crazy moon mission, heck he does not even know that there is a WAR going on. He does not know that Maadara has basically sold him to Kabuto...!
Kishi must have a reason behind all this. I'm just closely following the AUTHOR's cue. Sasuke's NEXT action will be determining.

Dude... vague threats? Attacking the Kage Summit IS him carrying out his 'war' against Konoha. Despite Danzou being against the principles of Konoha, that still doesn't make him an enemy of the alliance, only a political rival. Don't forget, he did back out on his attempt to trying to become Hokage again after it was found he was mind controlling the Fire Daimyo and Mifune (at least I think he was mind controlling Mifune). Vengeance was heroic and honorable in old stories, but at the same time the person undertaking the vengeance usually kept crossfire at a minimum. What Sasuke doing is condemning the whole of Konoha to death because of the decisions, a secret decision no less, of Konoha's leaders to prevent a civil war. Itachi knew this, that's why he killed his family and tried to protect, quite horribly, Sasuke from his clan's plans. That backfired and now, Sasuke wants to kill Konoha in a twisted attempt to regain his clan's glory. His first casualty is Danzo. There is nothing honorable about that.

[ciardha]

Dude... vague threats? Attacking the Kage Summit IS him carrying out his 'war' against Konoha. Despite Danzou being against the principles of Konoha, that still doesn't make him an enemy of the alliance, only a political rival. Don't forget, he did back out on his attempt to trying to become Hokage again after it was found he was mind controlling the Fire Daimyo and Mifune (at least I think he was mind controlling Mifune). Vengeance was heroic and honorable in old stories, but at the same time the person undertaking the vengeance usually kept crossfire at a minimum. What Sasuke doing is condemning the whole of Konoha to death because of the decisions, a secret decision no less, of Konoha's leaders to prevent a civil war. Itachi knew this, that's why he killed his family and tried to protect, quite horribly, Sasuke from his clan's plans. That backfired and now, Sasuke wants to kill Konoha in a twisted attempt to regain his clan's glory. His first casualty is Danzo. There is nothing honorable about that.

Plus Kishimoto has made point that vengeance isn't honorable. Kakashi, Sakura and Naruto all told Sasuke that in part 1, Naruto faced the choice and chose to not take the path of vengeance. Sasuke had many chances not to take that path and always chose it.

[merryGOflava]

i still say theres a chance and not a small one either.

[The Tax-Man]

i still say theres a chance and not a small one either.

And therefore, Enter The Tax-Man.

Why do you say so? He has no chance without consequences. He'll probably face 'em. Maybe small, but consequences nonetheless. I say small because he'll probably help with the Madara fight later. Either that, or he'll die. And since this is manga, I can understand that it wont be exactly true to our reasoning and he might just get no consequences if he 'redeems' himself.

The idea of the wanderer, though, I can't say I agree with. It would be pretty anti-climatic. After all that build-up...no. It's either die or come back.

But I guess we can be surprised :-0.

[merryGOflava]

And therefore, Enter The Tax-Man.

Why do you say so? He has no chance without consequences. He'll probably face 'em. Maybe small, but consequences nonetheless. I say small because he'll probably help with the Madara fight later. Either that, or he'll die. And since this is manga, I can understand that it wont be exactly true to our reasoning and he might just get no consequences if he 'redeems' himself.

The idea of the wanderer, though, I can't say I agree with. It would be pretty anti-climatic. After all that build-up...no. It's either die or come back.

But I guess we can be surprised :-0.

no it wont be anit-climatic, i say him dying and being evil is anti-climatic. we get all this build up for naruto to save sasuke, from his darkness and im still waiting for that.

of course he will have punishment. i never said he wouldnt.

[The Tax-Man]

no it wont be anit-climatic, i say him dying and being evil is anti-climatic. we get all this build up for naruto to save sasuke, from his darkness and im still waiting for that.

of course he will have punishment. i never said he wouldnt.

You got me wrong. I said that him becoming a wanderer would be anti-climatic. I also said that he either redeems himself and dies, or comes back and is forgiven or has to face consequences.

[Greed-Sama]

You got me wrong. I said that him becoming a wanderer would be anti-climatic. I also said that he either redeems himself and dies, or comes back and is forgiven or has to face consequences.

You guys don't understand anti-climatic. That would be you not getting closure from the story, which I completely understand in some cases. The climax will be the fight against Madara.

[The Tax-Man]

You guys don't understand anti-climatic. That would be you not getting closure from the story, which I completely understand in some cases. The climax will be the fight against Madara.

Au contraire, mon frere, I do. I merely meant anti-climatic in terms of all the conflicts and expectations brought from the constant struggle for Sasuke. Him actually just leaving would not be much of a closure at all in the Team 7 plot.. Since the development only leaves to really viable options, redeem or die, or come back and get punished. And I myself go for the former since the latter is cliched and not really much likely.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 13 April 2011 - 03:53 AM.

[Greed-Sama]

Au contraire, mon frere, I do. I merely meant anti-climatic in terms of all the conflicts and expectations brought from the constant struggle for Sasuke. Him actually just leaving would not be much of a closure at all in the Team 7 plot.. Since the development only leaves to really viable options, redeem or die, or come back and get punished. And I myself go for the former since the latter is cliched and not really much likely.

I guess. I still see the climax as when Sasuke makes the inevitable reversal decision. Though I honestly would like it more if Kishimoto put in some reality to this and kept Sasuke evil. Killing Madara simply to out do him in the end.

[Darth Krypt]

Au contraire, mon frere, I do. I merely meant anti-climatic in terms of all the conflicts and expectations brought from the constant struggle for Sasuke. Him actually just leaving would not be much of a closure at all in the Team 7 plot.. Since the development only leaves to really viable options, redeem or die, or come back and get punished. And I myself go for the former since the latter is cliched and not really much likely.

What kind of punishment do you think Sasuke deserve to get from Konoha? Imprisonment? Death sentence would be lame because he might as well die in battle. To me I don't think he deserve to come back to Konoha not only because of what he did, but also of what he thought of the people in it. He said that the people of Konoha must experience the pain he felt of losing someone and they didn't feel it thus are laughing happily when Sasuke was picturing them. A sudden change of heart would be very weak character development. If he is to survive and revive the clan, he would probably do it somewhere else.

[The Tax-Man]

What kind of punishment do you think Sasuke deserve to get from Konoha? Imprisonment? Death sentence would be lame because he might as well die in battle. To me I don't think he deserve to come back to Konoha not only because of what he did, but also of what he thought of the people in it. He said that the people of Konoha must experience the pain he felt of losing someone and they didn't feel it thus are laughing happily when Sasuke was picturing them. A sudden change of heart would be very weak character development. If he is to survive and revive the clan, he would probably do it somewhere else.

"The quality of mercy is as Almighty himself."

He is in the wrong, but he has reason for it. the circumstances, coupled with inferiority and superiority complexes of Uchihas is enough. And not sudden 'change of heart'. He is dynamic. He needs reason. With reason, you can change him in ten chapters. He could come back. And not imprisonment. Maybe less.

And death? Didn't I say he could redeem himself by fighting against Madara in the end and die? Or he could do more and actually be forced to come back, even if for imprisonment at first, then less later. Remember, "The quality of mercy is never strained,"

And 'revive'? No. I'd rather have him accept the clan is gone and move on. But still have the clan redeemed by redeeming himself and getting rid of Madara.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 13 April 2011 - 04:14 AM.