267 replies to this topic

[Prime]

Excuse me, but how exactly is having these 'idiot' publishers mangas pirated and shared for FREE, at absolutely no profit to themselves going to save them?

Just because you're mad about losing your 'free priviledge' doesn't make these publishers 'idiots'. In fact it's one of the smartest things for them to do if they want to try to save their industry, and have money flowing back to them. By having people actually go out and ya know, buy the mangas instead of getting them absolutely free at no cost.

Well the truth is viewing Manga online for free is universal to every country , and of course Japan. One of the good sides is major websites hold a lot of Manga at once with more popular Manga like Naruto. Manga is not advertised individually in the USA like it is in Japan , it's easy to not ever know a Manga because a lot of people don't get commercials on T.V or have a store next to them with a insane amount of Manga. Once you take out the big websites you lose a lot of exposure. The reason it's such a big deal in the USA and not so in Japan , is because they market not only the Manga/Anime itself , but they have everything to go with it. It's like Final Fantasy , there is drinks , food , toys , clothes and just an endless amount of stuff that people buy. What they are doing is stopping the exposure American people have to Anime/Manga all together and that is just a horrible way to expand a business. If they plan on selling a lot of Anime/Manga in America shutting down the only way Americans can get wind of it is just not the way to do it. In the end the only people that suffer are the consumers.

Edited by Prime, 25 July 2010 - 06:52 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Well the truth is viewing Manga online for free is universal to every country , and of course Japan. One of the good sides is major websites hold a lot of Manga at once with more popular Manga like Naruto. Manga is not advertised individually in the USA like it is in Japan , it's easy to not ever know a Manga because a lot of people don't get commercials on T.V or have a store next to them with a insane amount of Manga. Once you take out the big websites you lose a lot of exposure. The reason it's such a big deal in the USA and not so in Japan , is because they market not only the Manga/Anime itself , but they have everything to go with it. It's like Final Fantasy , there is drinks , food , toys , clothes and just an endless amount of stuff that people buy. What they are doing is stopping the exposure American people have to Anime/Manga all together and that is just a horrible way to expand a business. If they plan on selling a lot of Anime/Manga in America shutting down the only way Americans can get wind of it is just not the way to do it. In the end the only people that suffer are the consumers.

This is how someone who gets something for free thinks. They aren't shutting down 'the only way Americans can get wind of it.' They are shutting down the *illegal* 'free' exposure that Americans get. The publishers can advertise and have tons of exposure all over the internet, and then have the copies/books for a price right there to buy. You can get plenty of exposure about just about anything on the internet. All the publishers want is that people actually *pay* for the stuff they are seeing. I completely understand how they feel. If I was a mangaka and I put my heart and soul into my work, and then to know there are countless people 'stealing' my work, and then sharing it willy nilly without me getting a shred of compensation, I'd be pissed too.

[Gravenimage]

This whole thing with manga publishers shutting down free manga reading sites like OM and MF feels like the Napster case. Metallica's Lars Ulrich sued the music site Napster because people were downloading the band's music for free off the internet and in the end Napster resulted with becoming a paying site in order to download music this feels the same way.

However right now to this very day they are dozens of sites on the internet where you can download free music while at the same time there also dozens of sites where you have to pay to download music. Including that there are also sites .like soulseek where you share your files with other users (music, movies, pictures etc) and vice versa. I'm beggining to think that the same thing will happen with the manga reading there will be sites where you will have to pay to read manga while others you can read them online for free, and even sharing your manga files with other users.

Edited by Gravenimage, 25 July 2010 - 07:32 PM.

[Insurrection]

Excuse me, but how exactly is having these 'idiot' publishers mangas pirated and shared for FREE, at absolutely no profit to themselves going to save them?

Just because you're mad about losing your 'free priviledge' doesn't make these publishers 'idiots'. In fact it's one of the smartest things for them to do if they want to try to save their industry, and have money flowing back to them. By having people actually go out and ya know, buy the mangas instead of getting them absolutely free at no cost.

I call them idiots because they're not seeing bigger picture. Yeah I'm kinda mad but the reason I call them idiots is because I see this lacking to provide the alternative/third way. The impression from what I'm getting is they want us to go out and by a physical copy at a booksotre when Amazon is the number 1 retailer and Borders and Barnes and Noble are down noticably. Borders especially has gone down by 15% in one year while B&N are down by 5%. While at the same time a publisher using iBooks has reported a sales increase of 400% so if you could plan to make chapters in Japan translated by publishers the same day it was released instead of a controlled release with bad translation like they're doing I'll change my opinion. Ease of Access and Immediacy of Scantilations have changed the game in a way Batman has said. The average Joe in 2010 doesn't wait when they can type into Google and have what they're looking for in 30 seconds instead of 30 days.

Onemanga was a behemoth of a problem, this crackdown seems a little spontaneous, but that's just me I suppose. They have every right to save their industry, but they could be AT THE SAME TIME bringing the average joe as Batman puts it into a system that encourages reading with subscriptions and downloads which hopeully is what Openmanga is going to do. Though there are other method that could work the same way.

Edited by Insurrection, 25 July 2010 - 08:31 PM.

[Dreamer]

^You know that would be awesome to use an Amazon Kindle or any other E-Reader to read manga and comics.

[Insurrection]

^You know that would be awesome to use an Amazon Kindle or any other E-Reader to read manga and comics.

If they actually decide to go that way, but I have no authority to dictate that. Also chalk up another site, Binktopia's server is down. Though on MS there is a disclaimer on every chapter so I wonder how that will work.

Edited by Insurrection, 25 July 2010 - 08:48 PM.

[harry4e]

Can't say i'm all that surprised with this news, the problem with the American Manga translation are is sometimes they do change them to be kid friendly, they also take a while to pubblish and with the current climate thanks to the internet you can get them instantly, if the Publishers can strike a deal with one of the scanalation sites, to do simucast like they do with Crunchyroll, it could create a good source of income for them, it's obvious that there are allot of fans out there that do want to support the industry like with the Anime industry.

I think it's time the Japanese Manga industry moved forward and do something like what crunchyroll do, maybe have a monthly subscription based site, I'd subscribe, Society has changed, we no longer accept waiting for information, many of us now get an email, they get notification on their phone, everything is instant when you want it.

Maybe they can use something like Zinio reader?

[dl316bh]

^You know that would be awesome to use an Amazon Kindle or any other E-Reader to read manga and comics.

I don't know if anything's on tap for manga, but American comics have already started this. Both Marvel and DC have apps that can be downloaded on the iPad that allow you to purchase comics. There are even free comics they put up.

It would be a good model for manga to follow.

[Dreamer]

I don't know if anything's on tap for manga, but American comics have already started this. Both Marvel and DC have apps that can be downloaded on the iPad that allow you to purchase comics. There are even free comics they put up.

It would be a good model for manga to follow.

Cool, so does that mean it's available for the Kindle too?

You know i got to thinking and ask myself: "do mangakas actually expect foreign sales to be as great as Japan or China, who use the official translation?" Kubo is suppose to be learning English, i would like to see his reaction on Viz edits and poor translations of his manga.

[Sakura Blossoms]

They have every right to save their industry, but they could be AT THE SAME TIME bringing the average joe as Batman puts it into a system that encourages reading with subscriptions and downloads which hopeully is what Openmanga is going to do. Though there are other method that could work the same way.

And I am in FULL agreement with you on this. This is why I said closing down the free sites was only one of the smart moves the publishers could do to save their industry. People have been spoiled by all this 'freeness'. When I first got into anime I used to have to rent, and this was back in the day when you only had VHS and not DVD. You were lucky if you got 3 eps on one tape. Then when DVD came out you sometimes got lucky to get 5 eps on one disk, though the usual was 4.

Nowadays people can watch entire 24 episode seasons of a series, at absolutely no cost and as many times as they want.

I have used Crunchyroll's paid subscription program. I paid for 1 month just to try it out, and I thought it was good. So if anime websites start being pulled down like manga sites, I would have absolutely no problem with paying for my anime again. We've had a good long run of being spoiled with getting everything free. I'm sure there will still be ways around it all, and people will still try to illegally get what they want. But I will support the manga publishers and the anime companies, if they decide to share their products for a reasonable price. After all it isn't free for them to make, create, publish, and distribute all that we take for granted and get for free ourselves.

[Prime]

This is how someone who gets something for free thinks. They aren't shutting down 'the only way Americans can get wind of it.' They are shutting down the *illegal* 'free' exposure that Americans get. The publishers can advertise and have tons of exposure all over the internet, and then have the copies/books for a price right there to buy. You can get plenty of exposure about just about anything on the internet. All the publishers want is that people actually *pay* for the stuff they are seeing. I completely understand how they feel. If I was a mangaka and I put my heart and soul into my work, and then to know there are countless people 'stealing' my work, and then sharing it willy nilly without me getting a shred of compensation, I'd be pissed too.

No this is how somebody in the same situation thinks and knows from experience. You have to understand the market for Manga in America is different from the one in Japan. Very few major company's directly profit from the product they put out. Music artist now make a lot more off of the merchandise they sale and the concerts they sell out compared to the albums they release because there are 3-4 record company's above them , and is the same in the Manga world. TV company's don't make as much money at all off showing a TV series in their channel , 90% of their money is made from the company's that pay them for commercial time , that is why it's over a million dollars for 10 seconds of time during the super bowl. That is also why channels with no commercials are forced to charge a premium , like HBO and Showtime.

In Japan the market is different , it's in high demand so its easily found everywhere. In the United States Manga/Anime is still in a small stage , it is not physically big enough to just rely on manga sales , especially considering most exposure happens online. How many people do you know that never read online and only buy it in stores ? You cannot advertise something online , when its free online and easily found. I tell you what , go to Walmart and buy anything in the store then go stand outside and try to sell it for $5 more. That is what the market for Manga/Anime in the united states is like.

Sure people deserve to be paid for their work , but without exposure no ones going to buy it and that's what they are taking away. That's why any band signed by a major record label has every song off every album on Youtube because major company's are making the money off the marketing of the product , not the product itself.

It's cool to see you trying to be the "good guy" but you just don't know what you're talking about.

[Dreamer]

It's cool to see you trying to be the "good guy" but you just don't know what you're talking about.

I personally thought Shauna made a valid point, while it's true that manga isn't at the top list of American entertainment but these sites like OM affect manga sales in not just America but several other countries as well, since it's posted on the "internet" A.K.A. World Wide Web. I don't know how significant it's affecting sales numbers but i'm sure at least it plays some kind of role in decreased manga sales. Think about it, if we find Chinese and Japanese Raws online, then that means they're reading it online for free just like we are.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 26 July 2010 - 01:19 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

I am just going to say I hope these publishers don't get so radical with the pirate thing they end up hurting their market audience.

Ubisoft and EA are trying to do something to prevent pirating, but it is causing a lot of problems with the paying customers. They add a code in the box to unlock half the data in the game. The code only comes in brand new copies and can be used only once. I also heard some are trying the whole "Pay for the game, but not the ending and then buy the DLC to UNLOCK the ending of the game." Which is by far the most ridiculous thing.

Imagine buying a manga and not getting the last ten pages of said manga. Then they say "well you have to buy the last ten pages separately on the internet." You all would be pissed and everyone would pirate to prove the point that they need to stop doing such a stupid idea.

[Sakura Blossoms]

It's cool to see you trying to be the "good guy" but you just don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not trying to be 'the good guy', and please don't try to tell me what I am and am not talking about. Just because you obviously don't agree with my views does not make them any less valid than yours.

I'm just not being spoiled and crying over 'my free manga is getting taken away, when the rest of the world has to pay for their products and if they don't pay it's illegal, but I am entitled to my manga being free because I'm 'American', and that's just how things work.'

I'm done saying my piece. I'm in the minority obviously of people who don't feel that I should be entitled to free stuff. You can't always get every little thing you want in life. Sometimes you have to suck it up, and pay what is asked for and actually owed.

Sometimes 'freedom' comes at a 'price'.

[Cloud]

Wow, Aethos. Quite selfish.

Let them continue scanlations just because you want to read two series, meanwhile they take losses on chapters that aren't sold. That's brilliant.

And you do know you can visit old bookstores and stuff to check for old manga series?

Also, publishers are butthurt now? For providing issue after issue of manga in English? WTF. Out of the many scanlators out there, only a few are actually good. Publishers might not be perfect at providing us with stuff to read, but they still do decent with the translations.

You want to be an ass and be "butthurt" about companies stopping scanlations, so you can read two series. Or you can let them stamp out some pirates and let them keep issuing manga in North America. Your choice.

Either way, it doesn't affect me. But your statements are brilliant. (I say it doesn't affect me because I buy my manga and import it. I might still occasionally read Chinese scanlations, but I have a few issues of manga that are imported.)

[Naruto_Sage]

This really sux

[James S Cassidy]

I'm not trying to be 'the good guy', and please don't try to tell me what I am and am not talking about. Just because you obviously don't agree with my views does not make them any less valid than yours.

I'm just not being spoiled and crying over 'my free manga is getting taken away, when the rest of the world has to pay for their products and if they don't pay it's illegal, but I am entitled to my manga being free because I'm 'American', and that's just how things work.'

I'm done saying my piece. I'm in the minority obviously of people who don't feel that I should be entitled to free stuff. You can't always get every little thing you want in life. Sometimes you have to suck it up, and pay what is asked for and actually owed.

Sometimes 'freedom' comes at a 'price'.

Funny how they always say this to us, but no one ever says this to the company itself. What would happen if you told the company "You can't always get what you want?" I am just saying. Everything is a two way street regardless if you agree or not.

Supply and demand? Well I demand they supply.
Pay what you ask for? Well if I don't get what I ask for, then I don't pay.
Stop pirating? Yeah can't always get what you want.

I could use the saying "customer is always right" thing, but no business believes in that anymore.

Whatever, I am just giving the opposite side to the argument and saying "the same could be said to them."

[Cloud]

But then again I for instance am a casual reader now. I read a series once and never pick it up again. To me there's no point in buying.

Brilliant thinking. Read a series once online, and not buy it. Good logic.

Publishers play catch up because issues from Japan have to be translated. I'm sure these translators have lives too? Wife and kids? They don't just translate an entire issue 24/7 and then move on to the next one and immediately have it published.

That's great logic.