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How Kishimoto could have made Sakura popular


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#121 Toby

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 08:09 PM

He shouldn't have made her a Tsunade clone and instead gave her abilities that puts her on par with Naruto and Sasuke. 

If he wanted to do reincarnations, he should have added Sakura to it-- but I'd rather not this. One thing I like about Sakura is that she's not a descendant of Hamura or Hagoromo, unlike Naru, Sasu, and Hina. Yet she's stronger than Hina, lol.

 

still the Sage should have given her a powerup because excluding her while handing gifts to the other two team 7 members makes her feel not on the team

 

 

Also, immediately after the Wave mission, Sakura asked Sasuke out and got rejected- then Naruto asked Sakura out and she threw him off the bridge in the anime. After suffering life/death together, she's back to her Stage-1 self. No development.

 

I think that's what got most of her haters.



#122 Frankie

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 09:26 PM

He shouldn't have made her a Tsunade clone and instead gave her abilities that puts her on par with Naruto and Sasuke. 
If he wanted to do reincarnations, he should have added Sakura to it-- but I'd rather not this. One thing I like about Sakura is that she's not a descendant of Hamura or Hagoromo, unlike Naru, Sasu, and Hina. Yet she's stronger than Hina, lol.
 
still the Sage should have given her a powerup because excluding her while handing gifts to the other two team 7 members makes her feel not on the team
 
 
Also, immediately after the Wave mission, Sakura asked Sasuke out and got rejected- then Naruto asked Sakura out and she threw him off the bridge in the anime. After suffering life/death together, she's back to her Stage-1 self. No development.
 
I think that's what got most of her haters.


That's something that bothered me quite a lot with the aftermath of the Wave Arc. After fighting Haku together and Zabuza, it seems like nothing happened. It's almost like Sasuke forgot he essentially gave his life for Naruto and is back to treating him like kitten. Same with Sakura. Development? Nah. Status Quo is Status Quo.

#123 goldenarms

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 08:55 AM

Some people might think all stalking is possessive and dangerous, but it is not. So Hinata is a stalker, but I'd say she's a farely mild one. Her stalking is more unhealthy for herself than Naruto in fact. She's no Christian Grey, just a underdog struggling to come into her own.

 

Again, people don't quite understand what stalking really is about.
 

All cases of stalking is about power over another. It's no surprise that the general types are built upon controlling the reality -- rejected stalkers; resentful stalkers; intimacy seekers; incompetent suitors; and predatory stalkers. From getting revenge on someone to getting what one "deserves," stalkers seek to control the target in some manner, assaulting them on the mental, emotional, and sometimes the physical level. It's disruptive to one's life at best; at worst, it makes one fear for their safety.

 

The thing about stalking and stalkers that hasn't been broached is that stalking consists of several cumulative acts over time in situations where the attention would be unwanted -- for example, Hinata watching Naruto during class is not considered stalking; Hinata watching Naruto while he's in the bathroom, however, is a criminal act, hence, stalking. Naruto asking Sakura out, even though she does not want him, could be considered harrassment, but not stalking; however, Naruto breaking into Sakura's house in the middle of the night to ask her out would be stalking. Simply put, looking at someone else isn't enough, because, if that's all it took to label someone a stalker, much of the world would be in jail by now. You need intent and inappropriate localtions.

 

There is no concrete evidence that Hinata has been engaged in any stalking habits like spying on Naruto when he's in the bathroom, or filming him without his awareness or consent. At worse, she once hid behind a column to see Naruto off, but only because she was still mortified for fainting in front of Naruto when she went to visit him in the hospital and could not bring herself to face Naruto directly after that. Outside of that, there's virtually nothing to even suggest that she's camped out in the bushes at any and all times of the day observing Naruto or something.

 

 

Yeah, yet never doing anything to help Naruto and his feelings of loneliness, which is why I don't get why she didn't if she loves him.

 

If you paid attention to the Naruto/Hinata interaction prior to the Chunin Exams, you'd come to realize that Hinata really doesn't know a whole heckuva lot about Naruto, aside from his "won't give up" attitude, which really slays the idea that Hinata spends all of her time Naruto-Watching. So, yeah, she never helped because she never knew about it in the first place.

 

 

the childhood flashback Rocci mentioned is where Hinata is seeing Naruto training and then she witness his never giving up attitude, it's safe to say that she made a habit out of observing him constantly

 

Not really.

 

We know that she has glimpsed him while they were in the classroom. However, outside of that, it's wild guessing. I'm of the mind that Hinata doesn't seek out Naruto like an obsessed stalker, nor does she sit there and do nothing but monitor him. My claim for this, I point to the conversation she and Naruto had prior to his Chunin Exam fight with Neji. The more they talk, the clearer it becomes that Hinata doesn't know much of anything about Naruto, aside from his wont give up attitude. If Hinata really had been hunkered down always watching Naruto the way fanon would say, she should know what color underwear he put on that morning, nevermind most everything else about him.

 

Unless you have some indisputable hardcore proof that Hinata has been taking tips from Mizore, calling Hinata a stalker of any stripe is absurd. At worst, she's a terribly shy girl, who has difficulty expressing herself in a confident manner. It's because of that kind of persona that makes her confession all the more mind-blowing, in that she actually confessed at all. Like, for real, I spent months going "holy kitten!" every time I read that chapter, or thought about that moment. Because that doesn't happen in the manga series I've read.



#124 Tendo Ryuken

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 09:07 AM

Kishi himself said that he was bothered by Sakura's unpopularity in an interview and tried to fix this by drawing her "beautifully" (LOL), so that means he expected her to be popular somehow and then though wrongly that she wasn't popular not because he screwed up her development and consistency but because he didn't draw her beautiful enough :zaru:

 

this has been always my last resort of defense ever since kishi said that TBH. thank you for reminding me

 

about being stalker. this is kinda off topic so i put this in a spoiler

 

ops goldenarms answered already. i was too slow lol


Edited by Tendo Ryuken, 04 May 2015 - 09:08 AM.

don't try this at home

#125 rocci

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 09:44 AM

@golden arm
It's not harassment when naruto ask sakura to date and she reject him.
It's a harassment when naruto forcefully do that after sakura reject it.

We don't see Hinata every day life because she's not relevant enough.
But I will still call her a stalker.

Hinata confession is yolo type. She do that because naruto will dead.

Mizore from Rosario vampire? Well she's more ninja than stalker.

Edited by rocci, 04 May 2015 - 09:54 AM.


#126 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 12:07 PM

That's something that bothered me quite a lot with the aftermath of the Wave Arc. After fighting Haku together and Zabuza, it seems like nothing happened. It's almost like Sasuke forgot he essentially gave his life for Naruto and is back to treating him like kitten. Same with Sakura. Development? Nah. Status Quo is Status Quo.

Part 2 has that very often, which is aggravating to see the moments, only to see it feel like nothing really changed, mainly the main characters. The obvious one was Sai and Sasuke Arc.

#127 Nar123

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 01:34 PM

 

Again, people don't quite understand what stalking really is about.
 

All cases of stalking is about power over another. It's no surprise that the general types are built upon controlling the reality -- rejected stalkers; resentful stalkers; intimacy seekers; incompetent suitors; and predatory stalkers. From getting revenge on someone to getting what one "deserves," stalkers seek to control the target in some manner, assaulting them on the mental, emotional, and sometimes the physical level. It's disruptive to one's life at best; at worst, it makes one fear for their safety.

 

The thing about stalking and stalkers that hasn't been broached is that stalking consists of several cumulative acts over time in situations where the attention would be unwanted -- for example, Hinata watching Naruto during class is not considered stalking; Hinata watching Naruto while he's in the bathroom, however, is a criminal act, hence, stalking. Naruto asking Sakura out, even though she does not want him, could be considered harrassment, but not stalking; however, Naruto breaking into Sakura's house in the middle of the night to ask her out would be stalking. Simply put, looking at someone else isn't enough, because, if that's all it took to label someone a stalker, much of the world would be in jail by now. You need intent and inappropriate localtions.

 

There is no concrete evidence that Hinata has been engaged in any stalking habits like spying on Naruto when he's in the bathroom, or filming him without his awareness or consent. At worse, she once hid behind a column to see Naruto off, but only because she was still mortified for fainting in front of Naruto when she went to visit him in the hospital and could not bring herself to face Naruto directly after that. Outside of that, there's virtually nothing to even suggest that she's camped out in the bushes at any and all times of the day observing Naruto or something.

 

 

If you paid attention to the Naruto/Hinata interaction prior to the Chunin Exams, you'd come to realize that Hinata really doesn't know a whole heckuva lot about Naruto, aside from his "won't give up" attitude, which really slays the idea that Hinata spends all of her time Naruto-Watching. So, yeah, she never helped because she never knew about it in the first place.

 

 

Not really.

 

We know that she has glimpsed him while they were in the classroom. However, outside of that, it's wild guessing. I'm of the mind that Hinata doesn't seek out Naruto like an obsessed stalker, nor does she sit there and do nothing but monitor him. My claim for this, I point to the conversation she and Naruto had prior to his Chunin Exam fight with Neji. The more they talk, the clearer it becomes that Hinata doesn't know much of anything about Naruto, aside from his wont give up attitude. If Hinata really had been hunkered down always watching Naruto the way fanon would say, she should know what color underwear he put on that morning, nevermind most everything else about him.

 

Unless you have some indisputable hardcore proof that Hinata has been taking tips from Mizore, calling Hinata a stalker of any stripe is absurd. At worst, she's a terribly shy girl, who has difficulty expressing herself in a confident manner. It's because of that kind of persona that makes her confession all the more mind-blowing, in that she actually confessed at all. Like, for real, I spent months going "holy kitten!" every time I read that chapter, or thought about that moment. Because that doesn't happen in the manga series I've read.

 

 

I think you are the one not understanding...

 

 

I already posted "Stalk" definition...

 

 

stalk 

  (stôk)

v. stalkedstalk·ingstalks
v.tr.
1. To pursue or track (prey) stealthily: The lions stalked the zebra from the tall grass.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession, admiration or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry

 

 
 
 

 

here is another definition...

 

 

 

stalk verb (FOLLOW)
 [T] to follow an animal or person as closely as possible without being seen or heard, usually in order to catch or kill them
 
: [I or T] to illegally follow and watch someone over a period of time:

 

 

No matter the kind of mental gymnastic you use, the fact that Hinata falls into this definition (and the other one too) still remains

You are exaggerating what stalk means, stalk is the simple act of following someone or observing them persistently or for a long time, being this the case, what Hinata's character did completely fits. 

 

Now consider these points:

 

+Naruto asking Sakura out is not harassment, it's harassment if she denies and he still insists on it

 

+She specially observed him while he was training, so it would make sense that the main characteristic she took a real grasp was the never give up attitude, it doesn't make her any less of a stalker because she actively did spy and observed Naruto without his consent

 

+The story not only hints that Hinata consistently spied and observed Naruto,  there is also no evidence to prove that she didn't stalk him. 

 

+You are trying to argue the it's only "stalking" IF Hinata knew everything about Naruto, no it's not, she follows and observes him without his consent, like a spy be it for her shyness of for whatever motive it is it still is stalking

 

+Her confession isn't really mind blowing tbh, she was selfish over there, like rocci said, a YOLO moment, she was afraid of Naruto dying without knowing her feelings and thus she went there to simply confess, she didn't have a plan to save him or anything like the Anime tried to put it. What is mind blowing is that Kishi chose to ignore and retcon what happened during that scene with the Last in a reallypathetic manner

 

In sum, Hinata was a stalker

As sushi said she is not an over the top stalker, one that shows obsession and that would grant jail in RL, but her actions still fall into the basic concept of what stalking means. There really is no changing that.

As I said you can try to bring up the fact that she was not shown actively stalking or whatever, but not only does there is no proof that she didn't, there is also hints in the manga that she indeed made a habit out of observing Naruto's training sessions.

There is also the fact that we never saw much of her life because she was not relevant, with the limited grasp of what we have in what Hianta did, it's pretty safe to say that her actions regarding Naruto were within what the definition of "stalk" means.


Edited by Nar123, 04 May 2015 - 01:46 PM.

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#128 Nar123

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 01:38 PM

 

this has been always my last resort of defense ever since kishi said that TBH. thank you for reminding me

 

about being stalker. this is kinda off topic so i put this in a spoiler

 

ops goldenarms answered already. i was too slow lol

 

It's hinted that she did watched him train while she was hidden during his academy time, there are also no indication that she didn't stalk him, in fact the story points that she did follow and observed him without his consent  :confused:

It's fairly simple, while her actions fall within the definition of what stalking means she isn't an over the top, obsessed stalker


Edited by Nar123, 04 May 2015 - 01:39 PM.

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#129 goldenarms

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 02:55 AM

 

 

I think you are the one not understanding...

 

 

I already posted "Stalk" definition...

 

 

 
 
 

 

here is another definition...

 

 

 

 

No matter the kind of mental gymnastic you use, the fact that Hinata falls into this definition (and the other one too) still remains

You are exaggerating what stalk means, stalk is the simple act of following someone or observing them persistently or for a long time, being this the case, what Hinata's character did completely fits.

 

....

 

Again, you do NOT understand what it means to stalk or to be a stalker.

 

If you want to rely so much on a single definition to make your case, here, let's play with those. From the United States Department of Justice: http://www.justice.gov/ovw/stalking

 

 

Stalking is a pattern of repeated and unwanted attention, harassment, contact, or any other course of conduct directed at a specific person that would cause a reasonable person to feel fear.

Stalking can include:

Repeated, unwanted, intrusive, and frightening communications from the perpetrator by phone, mail, and/or email.

Repeatedly leaving or sending victim unwanted items, presents, or flowers.

Following or laying in wait for the victim at places such as home, school, work, or recreation place.

Making direct or indirect threats to harm the victim, the victim's children, relatives, friends, or pets.

Damaging or threatening to damage the victim's property.

Harassing victim through the internet.

Posting information or spreading rumors about the victim on the internet, in a public place, or by word of mouth.

Obtaining personal information about the victim by accessing public records, using internet search services, hiring private investigators, going through the victim's garbage, following the victim, contacting victim's friends, family work, or neighbors, etc.

Source: Stalking Resource Center, National Center for Victims of Crime

 

This is what it means to stalk and to be a stalker, hence why I have repeatedly said calling Hinata one is insane. At worst, her actions are consistent with someone who is painfully shy and has little self-esteem. Seriously, look up sites that talk about shy people and their behaviors. Those would be far more accurate than OMG!STALKER!! I should know because, yes, I am one of the shy people they're describing, and I'm reasonably certain I'm not a stalker. To really fall into that category, there has to be a certain kind of intent involved, as well as multiple acts, because I can't think of any known stalker that only does one thing -- they're known for several brands of debilitating and increasingly dangerous behavior.

 

 

Now consider these points:

 

+Naruto asking Sakura out is not harassment, it's harassment if she denies and he still insists on it

 

Naruot has repeatedly aske Sakura out on dates, as well as insist upon them being an item, to which, Sakura has swiftly and decidedly rejected him, either via the word No, or with physical violence. That's harrassment.

 

 

 

+She specially observed him while he was training, so it would make sense that the main characteristic she took a real grasp was the never give up attitude, it doesn't make her any less of a stalker because she actively did spy and observed Naruto without his consent

 

So, if I were to happen upon someone doing exercise and watched them without saying anything for a few moments, does that automatically mean I'm a stalker? Or for the matter, is it stalking if you happen upon a scene that captures your attention?

 

 

 

+The story not only hints that Hinata consistently spied and observed Naruto,  there is also no evidence to prove that she didn't stalk him. 
 

 

First, that makes no sense. If Hinata wasn't constantly spying on Naruto, of course there would be no evidence. Also, given the success ratio of relying on "hints," I would not go relying on those exclusively to determine someone's activities. If anything, Hinata has approached Naruto directly at the hospital when he was hurt, only to faint at the sight of his heavily bandaged form, and as a result, could not bring herself to face him due to shame.

 

It sucks to be a shy person, believe that.

 

 

+You are trying to argue the it's only "stalking" IF Hinata knew everything about Naruto, no it's not, she follows and observes him without his consent, like a spy be it for her shyness of for whatever motive it is it still is stalking

 

Again, stalking and being a stalker comes with a whole nother bag of gravity than looking at/admiring someone. If you want to insist that any activity of looking at someone without conversation or granted consent is considered stalking, you might as well start jailing most of the population, because we've all done it at some point.

 

 

 

+Her confession isn't really mind blowing tbh, she was selfish over there, like rocci said, a YOLO moment, she was afraid of Naruto dying without knowing her feelings and thus she went there to simply confess, she didn't have a plan to save him or anything like the Anime tried to put it. What is mind blowing is that Kishi chose to ignore and retcon what happened during that scene with the Last in a reallypathetic manner.

 

Hinata admitted to being selfish, yes, that's true. However, calling it a YOLO moment, or her trying to score a few brownie points is asinine, demeaning, and hugely disrespectful.

 

In order for Hinata to live the path that she had chosen to live, there was no other recourse for her but to go forward and defend Naruto to the death. To have played it safe, sure she would have lived, but she would forever beat herself up for not doing something, anything, even in the face of dying. It's roughly the same thing Naruto has done on several occasions, from the time that he made his pledge after the Demon Brothers skirmish to confronting Zabuza, taking on Neji, defending Tsunade from Kabuto, among others. It was her taking responsibility as a human being to care for and defend her fellow man, even when no one else is willing to step forward, thereby overcoming the Bystander Effect that makes things "not my deal." She didn't have a plan to free Naruto because she could only depend on herself to do what was true to herself and the way of life she decided to uphold, hence, her standing her ground against Pain, totally prepared to die in belief of her ideals.

 

 

 

As I said you can try to bring up the fact that she was not shown actively stalking or whatever, but not only does there is no proof that she didn't, there is also hints in the manga that she indeed made a habit out of observing Naruto's training sessions.

There is also the fact that we never saw much of her life because she was not relevant, with the limited grasp of what we have in what Hianta did, it's pretty safe to say that her actions regarding Naruto were within what the definition of "stalk" means.

 

The closest it comes to hinting Hinata admired Naruto often when when Sakura commented on their time in the Academy. After that, we have Kurenai's flashbacks of Hinata training hard to not be a failure, while still screwing up missions. If anything, it's pretty easy to say Hinata didn't have time to sneak-sneak-sneak, if she was ever involved in it in the first place; she had her own fish to fry, and Kurenai seems to be pretty well-informed about that, since it's her own student.



#130 Nar123

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 03:05 AM

 

....

 

Again, you do NOT understand what it means to stalk or to be a stalker.

 

If you want to rely so much on a single definition to make your case, here, let's play with those. From the United States Department of Justice: http://www.justice.gov/ovw/stalking

 

 

This is what it means to stalk and to be a stalker, hence why I have repeatedly said calling Hinata one is insane. At worst, her actions are consistent with someone who is painfully shy and has little self-esteem. Seriously, look up sites that talk about shy people and their behaviors. Those would be far more accurate than OMG!STALKER!! I should know because, yes, I am one of the shy people they're describing, and I'm reasonably certain I'm not a stalker. To really fall into that category, there has to be a certain kind of intent involved, as well as multiple acts, because I can't think of any known stalker that only does one thing -- they're known for several brands of debilitating and increasingly dangerous behavior.

 

 

 

:facepalm: :facepalm:

 

You gave a legal definition of the US legal system...so does Naruto live in the US? 

I gave ou the dictionary the definition, a universal definition. Please, you really tried to make a point with that?

 

I will answer the rest later, have to sleep


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#131 griff142

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 05:11 AM

One thing that could have fixed this from the beginning and made Sakura popular. Don't make a fan girl in the beginning enough said. Sakura came off as snotty which made the other fans gave her a stigma no one would let go no matter what Sakura did in the future and Kishi being a sucky writer didn't help at all either.

#132 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:07 AM

Hinata is a level 1 stalker. She's not a real one.

#133 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:25 AM

One thing that could have fixed this from the beginning and made Sakura popular. Don't make a fan girl in the beginning enough said. Sakura came off as snotty which made the other fans gave her a stigma no one would let go no matter what Sakura did in the future and Kishi being a sucky writer didn't help at all either.

Yeah, it wouldn't have been bad if she simply had a crush like Rin did with Kakashi, but making her fangirl in such an over-exaggerated way as much as she did just makes it harder for those fans to believe she could really change, and when she did, all they could do was try to come up with any excuse possible as to why, like she had some sinister agenda of her own, or simply outright deny/understate anything that she does. Like many fans try to attribute Sakura's victory over Sasori as practically all Chiyo's doing and that Sakura did very little.

I mean, even to this day, what's one of the "reasons" why Sakura haters/extremist NH fans say as to why Sakura "couldn't" work with Naruto? She was "abusive", as if they had never heard of the term "tsundere" before and that such actions have never happened in anime before her. Or that she was "useless" just because she wasn't in the middle of the fray with Naruto and Sasuke, throwing flashy (hax) jutsu after flashy (hax) jutsu at the opponent.

They even try to pass similar judgment on Tsunade; calling her the "weakest (Ho)Kage" and such when even Ay admits that Tsunade's physiclal strength via her chakra control makes her stronger than him. Of course, they love to make out pre-Orochimaru-ized Kabuto as being so badass, yet completely ignore Tsunade (and Shizune's) own medical prowess and how that alone makes them extremely deadly on the battlefield to those who underestimate them (even Kabuto almost got caught by Shizune's poison needles, which he barely only avoided by using his headband, and her poison gas, knowing a single breath would kill him).


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#134 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:27 AM

Yeah, it wouldn't have been bad if she simply had a crush like Rin did with Kakashi, but making her fangirl in such an over-exaggerated way as much as she did just makes it harder for those fans to believe she could really change, and when she did, all they could do was try to come up with any excuse possible as to why, like she had some sinister agenda of her own, or simply outright deny/understate anything that she does. Like many fans try to attribute Sakura's victory over Sasori as practically all Chiyo's doing and that Sakura did very little.

I mean, even to this day, what's one of the "reasons" why Sakura haters/extremist NH fans say as to why Sakura "couldn't" work with Naruto? She was "abusive", as if they had never heard of the term "tsundere" before and that such actions have never happened in anime before her. Or that she was "useless" just because she wasn't in the middle of the fray with Naruto and Sasuke, throwing flashy (hax) jutsu after flashy (hax) jutsu at the opponent.

They even try to pass similar judgment on Tsunade; calling her the "weakest (Ho)Kage" and such when even Ay admits that Tsunade's physiclal strength via her chakra control makes her stronger than him. Of course, they love to make out pre-Orochimaru-ized Kabuto as being so badass, yet completely ignore Tsunade (and Shizune's) own medical prowess and how that alone makes them extremely deadly on the battlefield to those who underestimate them (even Kabuto almost got caught by Shizune's poison needles, which he barely only avoided by using his headband, and her poison gas, knowing a single breath would kill him).


A lot of NH fans also hate Tsunade. I notice this but don't really know why they do.

#135 Frankie

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 07:47 AM

A lot of NH fans also hate Tsunade. I notice this but don't really know why they do.


Because Tsunade reminds them of Sakura.

#136 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 08:36 AM

Because Tsunade reminds them of Sakura.


They also hate Ino. Probably cuz she reminds them of Sakura too lol. Basically any tsundere hot headed girl.

#137 rocci

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 10:15 AM

I don't think sakura is a tsundere.

#138 Ryriena

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    NaruSaku, Ash x Misty, (Pokyshiping) Ichigo x Rukia, Kiba/Hinata, Ichigo x Orihime, Uryū x Orihime, Cullen x Amell, Alastair x Warden, Cullen x Female Inqustior Ed x Winnry, Spike x May Valatine, Kaiden Alekno x Female Shepard, Garus x Female Shepard, Joker x Female Shepard, Angg x Katara, Zuko x Katara, Mako x Kora ( Avatar the last air bender - Legend of Kora) I don't see the ending of Kora as canon since its more of a fan service ending, since the canon pairing is not a properly developed paring.

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    Movies pairings: Jurassic Park series (Owen x Claire, Malcome x Sarah) Han x Leia, Luke x Maria Jade, Finn x Rey, FinnPoe (Star Wars)

    Dislikes Supes x Wonder Woman, as it's basically turns a feminist icon in to a baby maker, NaruHinata, Sasuke x Sakura abusive relationship ahoy.

Posted 06 May 2015 - 11:52 AM

I think my background story for Sakura to fit a shouen manga heroien would have her father or mother be ninjas and to develop why she wants to be a ninja other than because Sasuake or her Rivraly with Ino.

Then, I'll have her parents be a little distrustful of Naruto at first and soon realize he is like both his parents and have them fight along side him to protect the village during the Sand attack when they see how he is trying his best to defeat Gara to save their daughter.

Then, I would have them might nick pick about her dating him every now again just to be funny because this would show them that they came to understand him a lot better. And with them being parents asking when they will get grandkids.

I would also have her not treat him like kitten again after Zabuza since it seemed like she was going for staus quo with them going back to treating him badly it felt really off to me.

During the exams arc, I would devople their relationship a little bit more by having them fight along side each other and allow each teammate to shine by having Sakura go up against a genjustu user or something to prove her skills.

Then to me, it would make sense as too why Naruto would go after Sasuake when he left the village. Since to me it really never made much sense other than the promise of a life time he gave Sakura.

Edited by Ryriena, 06 May 2015 - 12:34 PM.

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#139 Nar123

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 12:00 PM

 

....

 

Again, you do NOT understand what it means to stalk or to be a stalker.

 

If you want to rely so much on a single definition to make your case, here, let's play with those. From the United States Department of Justice: http://www.justice.gov/ovw/stalking

 

 

This is what it means to stalk and to be a stalker, hence why I have repeatedly said calling Hinata one is insane. At worst, her actions are consistent with someone who is painfully shy and has little self-esteem. Seriously, look up sites that talk about shy people and their behaviors. Those would be far more accurate than OMG!STALKER!! I should know because, yes, I am one of the shy people they're describing, and I'm reasonably certain I'm not a stalker. To really fall into that category, there has to be a certain kind of intent involved, as well as multiple acts, because I can't think of any known stalker that only does one thing -- they're known for several brands of debilitating and increasingly dangerous behavior.

 

 

 

Here

 

 

:facepalm: :facepalm:

 

You gave a legal definition of the US legal system...so does Naruto live in the US? 

I gave ou the dictionary the definition, a universal definition. Please, you really tried to make a point with that?

 

 

 

 

Now the rest...

 

Naruot has repeatedly aske Sakura out on dates, as well as insist upon them being an item, to which, Sakura has swiftly and decidedly rejected him, either via the word No, or with physical violence. That's harrassment.

 

Not really, after she rejects him he never actually forces himself into her. Insisting on them being an item is not a harassment situation, it was brough upon in one situation I can remeber and it wasn't even him who brought  it uo, it was Konohamaru anf then he got too embarassed to deny

 

Really you don't even sound as a NS fan. calling Naruto's baheacior as harassment is the same thing as saying Sakura's attitude towards him later on was "abusive", as in makes completely no sense

 

Of course if we take that with the retcons of the last, those actions make Naruto a scumbag because he considered Sakura a prize ( makes 0 sense LOL) , but not a harasser

 

 

So, if I were to happen upon someone doing exercise and watched them without saying anything for a few moments, does that automatically mean I'm a stalker? Or for the matter, is it stalking if you happen upon a scene that captures your attention?

 

No, but If you kept doing that repeatedly and with the specific intention of seeing the same person train again and again , then yes you're a stalker, a relatively harmless one but a stalker nonetheless

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First, that makes no sense. If Hinata wasn't constantly spying on Naruto, of course there would be no evidence. Also, given the success ratio of relying on "hints," I would not go relying on those exclusively to determine someone's activities. If anything, Hinata has approached Naruto directly at the hospital when he was hurt, only to faint at the sight of his heavily bandaged form, and as a result, could not bring herself to face him due to shame.

 

It sucks to be a shy person, believe that.

 

 

Hinata was not relevant so that's why her life and actions isn't really showed in detail beyond her backstory and the fact she spent time observing Naruto during part 1. There is nothing wrong on relying on hints, they remain to be true to the story even if Kishimoto himself tries to recon then like he did to NS, I mean, NS development is still there for everybody to see, the fact that it was ultimately retconed makes no sense upon further analysis, it's basically the same thing on the hints to the fact that Hinata had stalker like actions while she was observing Naruto training

What is this hospital scene you speak of? This never happened...it's the one from the fillers? 

 

What...where did you take this from? Believe me I used to be quite a shy person in RL, I know how it is. However her being "shy" doesn't change the fact that she fell within thedictionary stalker definition while she was observing Naruto 

 

 

 

 

Again, stalking and being a stalker comes with a whole nother bag of gravity than looking at/admiring someone. If you want to insist that any activity of looking at someone without conversation or granted consent is considered stalking, you might as well start jailing most of the population, because we've all done it at some point.

 

 

 

Your main mistake is lacking the knowledge of what stalking is, it is not simply looking at someone without conversaation or granted consent, it is doing that repeatedly yo the same perso, following her around, etc, no matter if the stalker had ill intentions or not, it wouldn't change the fact he was acting like a stalker

It's the same with Hinata, she had no ill intention towards Naruto ( even if she knew his pain and did nothing for him ), she just kept watching him because it gave her strenght, but tha's stalking nonetheless

 

 
 
 

Hinata admitted to being selfish, yes, that's true. However, calling it a YOLO moment, or her trying to score a few brownie points is asinine, demeaning, and hugely disrespectful.

 

 

 

 

I never said she was trying to score "brownie point", even because she went there knowing she would proibably die, so yeah it was a YOLO moment, she was afraid of the outcome of the fight being in Pein's favor and never getting the chance to ever confess, so she did it, it's not demeaning or disrespect in any manner. It's a fact

 

 

 
In order for Hinata to live the path that she had chosen to live, there was no other recourse for her but to go forward and defend Naruto to the death. To have played it safe, sure she would have lived, but she would forever beat herself up for not doing something, anything, even in the face of dying. It's roughly the same thing Naruto has done on several occasions, from the time that he made his pledge after the Demon Brothers skirmish to confronting Zabuza, taking on Neji, defending Tsunade from Kabuto, among others. It was her taking responsibility as a human being to care for and defend her fellow man, even when no one else is willing to step forward, thereby overcoming the Bystander Effect that makes things "not my deal." She didn't have a plan to free Naruto because she could only depend on herself to do what was true to herself and the way of life she decided to uphold, hence, her standing her ground against Pain, totally prepared to die in belief of her ideals.

 

 

 

Well that makes sense, she copied Naruto's nindo after all. However this doesn't change that it was a selfish and a YOLO moment, her main reason to go there was confessing because she was afraid of never being able to do so because of the supposed outcome. 

You can also spin this to the fact that she never really trusted Naruto's own abilities, specially his new ones, this becoms evident during the Sasuke hunt arc during the part 2, so she was understandably afraid of what would and could happen .

 

I think what lacked in Hinata's character was a moment of  definition, in my opinion she should somehow spin Naruto's nindo in a manner and make it her own,something relating to her own problems and experiences within her clan,  this would give her individuality and development outside of the whole "Naruto aspect". Hinata's cahracter message could be a positive one, instead we got a glorified pairing fodder, ( the same thing with Sakura tbh the only cahnge is that she isn't glorified)

 

 

 


 

 

The closest it comes to hinting Hinata admired Naruto often when when Sakura commented on their time in the Academy. After that, we have Kurenai's flashbacks of Hinata training hard to not be a failure, while still screwing up missions. If anything, it's pretty easy to say Hinata didn't have time to sneak-sneak-sneak, if she was ever involved in it in the first place; she had her own fish to fry, and Kurenai seems to be pretty well-informed about that, since it's her own student.

 

 

 

I think it's pretty obvious she didn't really had the time to keep up her old stalking schedule after they graduated to genin. However not only Sakura, but flashbacks and Hinata herself have hints that point to the fact that Hinata stalked Naruto during their time at the academy, and as I said even if retconed such hints can't be dismissed or changed,

 

 


Edited by Nar123, 06 May 2015 - 12:48 PM.

                                  tumblr_obno1yoNj11suy1fso1_540.gif

 

                                                                         :eager:  Persona 5 hype     :eager:


#140 rocci

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 12:50 PM

@nar123
When Hinata goes to hospital and faint.
It's not filler, but it doesn't show either. Only mention by kiba when kiba and shino goes to meet her in the hyuga house when neji and Hinata father train.




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