227 replies to this topic

[Luna]

There is a song called "NARUTO and HINATA" mess.

[Khaleesi]

Speaking about the devil...

http://www.saiyanisl...ack-music-list/

[Atheck]

What do you think of this movie description? Even if NS were to be canon and I still partially believe in my own theory, I'll still be annoyed that the whole end of Naruto are in this movie where HINATA is the main character. Naruto and Sasuke's fight was shortened and sidelined for Hinata? Sakura's arc, surpassing of Tsunade and her genjutsu foreshadow was neglected for this!? What's with all this sudden spotlight of the Hyuuga clan!? This reminds me of all those NH fan theories that Hinata will play an important role in the Kaguya fight because she's a Hyuuga. Hell, in the new movie she's more relevant to earth than Uzumaki Naruto.

 

 

There isn't much to be said that wasn't already acknowledged by others. So many of us held a different prospect for what this move's underlying plot and relevancy to the manga would be, only to have our presumptions, theories, and hopes thrown back into our faces. Every piece of information that we receive appears to be leading towards a greater prominence of Hinata. The only complicating factors that offer hope is the placement of Sakura's billing information just below Naruto's and a few of the early movie soundtrack pieces implying a potential acknowledgement of Naruto's longstanding affection for Sakura.

 

The movie was going to be released this year so Kishi needed to cut corners where he could in order to reach an appropriate deadline that wouldn't interfere too much with the movie's chronological applicability. My belief is that Kishi may have originally intended to expand the climactic fight with Sasuke by slowing down the rapidness in which events were panning out and create suspense with a more gradual setup. Had there been no deadlines given by the powers that be, we might have been reading a better quality and more extensive rendition of the conflict with Sasuke that was spread out to become its own arc like the Sasuke Retrieval arc in Part 1. There would be similar stakes, maybe with some participation from Team 7 as a whole and Sasuke's allies as their respective opinions and emotions regarding the philosophical debacle coming to a head. And of course, this would permit for a more detailed alternative of the reconciliation for the trio and for greater exposition of the direct aftermath of the war.

 

So it wasn't just Hinata that destroyed the potential of this finale (although she does play a very significant part in it), but the inhibitions brought on by this movie as a whole. 

 

As for the assurances that Sakura's heroic role would be at the forefront with an arc dedicated exclusively to her, I was never completely sold on the plausibility of it - not when you consider the shortcomings and inexperience of the author, which he's publicly admitted to, when it comes to properly writing for heroines and females in general. Kaguya's short and uninspiring appearing versus Madara's damned, but convincing motives and imposing presence is a case in point of how Kishi just seems to stumble and grope when attempting to write for females (there are a few exceptions such as Temari and Konan, but the women overall tend to be underrepresented and mischaracterised next to their male counterparts).

 

The Hyuga have never held much in the way of narrative sway. Most of their reputation stems from their incredible doujutsu prowess and the alleged rumours of the Sharingan being a derivative of the Byakugan. I'm thinking that the writers and enthusiasts of Hinata over at Pierrot were looking for a window through which to give the Hyuga a proper tale dedicated to them. Kishi was looking for a way to tie up loose ends with what little he established for the Hyuga so he linked them to Kaguya to try and account for the alleged connections with the Uchiha and transform them into legitimate descendants of the Sage.

 

With the manga's untimely conclusion, Kishi obliged the hopeful wishes of those over at Pierrot with a movie dedicated to the Hyuga. That's mostly just conjecture on my part, however.

 

Now with Sakura surpassing Tsunade and her early genjutsu potential, I believe the lack of any incontrovertible proof and references ties back into what was said earlier regarding Kishi's ineptitude with writing as eloquently for his female characters as he does for the males. Kishi might have intended to give Sakura the opportunity and tools she needed to finally show how far she's come. But there just wasn't an adequate place to situate that growth in the storyline with all of the events relating to the war, Hagoromo, Naruto and Sasuke's conflict filling up time as they were. Did he have a specific plan in mind to showcase these facets of Sakura's character? Honestly, I don't believe so. Sakura appears mostly as an afterthought in Kishi's mind. He acknowledges that more can be done to help involve her with the characters and the plot, but he doesn't know where to implement her. 

 

We're told in this movie that Sakura inherited the status and talent of Tsunade. But inheritance and attaining equal status is not the same as exceeding. Before the manga's abrupt turnaround with its faulty logic and inconsistent characterisation in #699 and 700, I would have maintained hope that Kishi would address in the movie what he couldn't in the manga. But after the heavy publicity of Hinata's major involvement in the plot and the utter demoralisation of fans here when reading the ending, I neither expect or care if Sakura receives any significant development with these technical aspects of the series. 

Edited by Atheck, 08 November 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

My friend abroad just finished reading the manga. Boy is he furious. He called me for one hour on an international phone.

Friend: What the bloody hell is wrong with you Japanese!!!? What the hell is that ending!? You destroyed my life!
Me: Geez. Not all Japanese are like Kishimoto okay?
Friend: I can't believe it!! I don't want Hinata!! I HATE her!!
Me: Well, the new movie is her and Naruto's love story.
Friend: kitten you Japanese!! I started learning Japamese but I'll throw all my textbooks away!
Me: Come on!! It's not us Japanese's fault!! Don't put us with Kishi!! We don't want him either!!
Friend: Then what the bloody hell is this ending!? Why the kitten is gorgeous Sakura dusting the house!! Sakura should leave those chores to her servants!!!
Me: I didn't know you liked her.
Friend: Of course I love her!! Why do we have Hinata instead?
Me: Because she's popular?
Friend: Only unconfident loser men would go for submissive unattractive girls like Hinata. Just tell them to watch porn and get done with it. And bloody hell to Sasuke! I used to like him! Until he just stole the kittening show! Now I used all the kittens of my lifetime!! I hate Japanese culture! Don't you dare talk about ninjas or even utter the word Hinata to me ever again.
Me: Dont worry. I'm feeling traumatic of ninja's and Hinata too. Shall I recommend you a new manga?
Friend: No thank you! I want to have nothing to do with Japanese culture!!
Me: Come on. Not everything is as bad as Kishi's writing.
Friend: You destroyed me life by introducing me to this manga. There is hell to pay!

Wow. Are there anyone else who can get this angry? I have to sleep early and the guy doesn't even cut the phone! The worst thing is he's coming to stay at my home for Christmas and New Years. I wonder if I can handle him.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 10 November 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[ns.Believe.It]

lol. i still like japanese culture. hey kishimoto's the japanese stephanie meyers LOL...

I love Japanese music. They always manage to touch the soul, especially the emotional ones. 

[六道仙人]

i'm not gonna lie... I did laugh at this phone convo, especially his replies

Edited by 六道仙人, 10 November 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

My friend abroad just finished reading the manga. Boy is he furious. He called me for one hour on an international phone.

Friend: What the bloody hell is wrong with you Japanese!!!? What the hell is that ending!? You destroyed my life!
Me: Geez. Not all Japanese are like Kishimoto okay?
Friend: I can't believe it!! I don't want Hinata!! I HATE her!!
Me: Well, the new movie is her and Naruto's love story.
Friend: kitten you Japanese!! I started learning Japamese but I'll throw all my textbooks away!
Me: Come on!! It's not us Japanese's fault!! Don't put us with Kishi!! We don't want him either!!
Friend: Then what the bloody hell is this ending!? Why the kitten is gorgeous Sakura dusting the house!! Sakura should leave those chores to her servants!!!
Me: I didn't know you liked her.
Friend: Of course I love her!! Why do we have Hinata instead?
Me: Because she's popular?
Friend: Only unconfident loser men would go for submissive unattractive girls like Hinata. Just tell them to watch porn and get done with it. And bloody hell to Sasuke! I used to like him! Until he just stole the kittening show! Now I used all the f**cks of my lifetime!! I hate Japanese culture! Don't you dare talk about ninjas or even utter the word Hinata to me ever again.
Me: Dont worry. I'm feeling traumatic of ninja's and Hinata too. Shall I recommend you a new manga?
Friend: No thank you! I want to have nothing to do with Japanese culture!!
Me: Come on. Not everything is as bad as Kishi's writing.
Friend: You destroyed me life by introducing me to this manga. There is hell to pay!

Wow. Are there anyone else who can get this angry? I have to sleep early and the guy doesn't even cut the phone! The worst thing is he's coming to stay at my home for Christmas and New Years. I wonder if I can handle him.

No lies and with all due respect as I want to advanced apologize...but...I felt the same way at Japan. I'm good now, but man, you don't want to know. All I can say is I felt like the immatured part of the Bronx/NYC, which is not good at all. If you have seen stereotype demonstration of NYC people in movies, that was me.

[ramenanmitsu]

I love Japanese music. They always manage to touch the soul, especially the emotional ones.

Really? I know nothing about music, including Japanese. Good to know.

i'm not gonna lie... I did laugh at this phone convo, especially his replies

  
He's a great guy. He's just being emotional right now and blaming it on me because I got him hooked in the manga the first place. He used to download and watch Naruto until 5am and then go to work.

No lies and with all due respect as I want to advanced apologize...but...I felt the same way at Japan. I'm good now, but man, you don't want to know. All I can say is I felt like the immatured part of the Bronx/NYC, which is not good at all. If you have seen stereotype demonstration of NYC people in movies, that was me.

Haha I don't mind at all. What Kishi did was infuriating. People would usually want to blame the culture that definitely had some part in building up the story. I myself, currently hate ninjas because it reminds me of this manga. How can I blame my friend for doing the similar thing?

[Khaleesi]

My friend abroad just finished reading the manga. Boy is he furious. He called me for one hour on an international phone.

Friend: What the bloody hell is wrong with you Japanese!!!? What the hell is that ending!? You destroyed my life!
Me: Geez. Not all Japanese are like Kishimoto okay?
Friend: I can't believe it!! I don't want Hinata!! I HATE her!!
Me: Well, the new movie is her and Naruto's love story.
Friend: kitten you Japanese!! I started learning Japamese but I'll throw all my textbooks away!
Me: Come on!! It's not us Japanese's fault!! Don't put us with Kishi!! We don't want him either!!
Friend: Then what the bloody hell is this ending!? Why the kitten is gorgeous Sakura dusting the house!! Sakura should leave those chores to her servants!!!
Me: I didn't know you liked her.
Friend: Of course I love her!! Why do we have Hinata instead?
Me: Because she's popular?
Friend: Only unconfident loser men would go for submissive unattractive girls like Hinata. Just tell them to watch porn and get done with it. And bloody hell to Sasuke! I used to like him! Until he just stole the kittening show! Now I used all the f**cks of my lifetime!! I hate Japanese culture! Don't you dare talk about ninjas or even utter the word Hinata to me ever again.
Me: Dont worry. I'm feeling traumatic of ninja's and Hinata too. Shall I recommend you a new manga?
Friend: No thank you! I want to have nothing to do with Japanese culture!!
Me: Come on. Not everything is as bad as Kishi's writing.
Friend: You destroyed me life by introducing me to this manga. There is hell to pay!

Wow. Are there anyone else who can get this angry? I have to sleep early and the guy doesn't even cut the phone! The worst thing is he's coming to stay at my home for Christmas and New Years. I wonder if I can handle him.

You ruined his life 

Burn all japanese for Kishimoto's fault.

He will attack you while you sleep.

 

I myself, currently hate ninjas because it reminds me of this manga. How can I blame my friend for doing the similar thing? 

 

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA, okay, I died. That's childish and cute. 

I think I need something to punch :|

Edited by theunburnt, 10 November 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah, exactly. But thanks for understanding. The thing is people are going to based on this as a way to see what Japan knows and likes. It's not true. Another problem is people thinks this series show what is love and what is not. The message only tells you that Twilight/50 Shades are now our time of love. That's something I want to suicide. I won't honestly, it's just an impression.

[ramenanmitsu]

You ruined his life 
Burn all japanese for Kishimoto's fault.
He will attack you while you sleep.

Yeah, that's why I don't want him near me for Christmas anymore. Obviously, he can't vent on Kishi so he's going to target me.

Japan must be the most hated country in the Naruto fandom right now.

Yeah, exactly. But thanks for understanding. The thing is people are going to based on this as a way to see what Japan knows and likes. It's not true. Another problem is people thinks this series show what is love and what is not. The message only tells you that Twilight/50 Shades are now our time of love. That's something I want to suicide. I won't honestly, it's just an impression.

They probably think we accept relationships where girls are abused or submissive girls are attractive. This is not true. May be true for some deep Otakus. Sigh. What has Kishi done....

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 10 November 2014 - 03:41 PM.

[六道仙人]

but this friend is a NS shipper? He seems to hate Hinata too much

[Khaleesi]

but this friend is a NS shipper? He seems to hate Hinata too much

Hinata is easy to hate :v 

Ok no, but I don't like that type of girls, so I didn't like her from the very beginning.

[ramenanmitsu]

but this friend is a NS shipper? He seems to hate Hinata too much

He thinks kitten and Hinata are synonyms. He's a bit arrogant and he hates incompetent, dumb, slow, and insecure people in real life (he's an investment banker so maybe that's why). And he thinks Hinata are all these things so he can't stand her. He fast forwards the anime when she appears.

Him hating Hinata has nothing to do with him liking NS.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 10 November 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, sadly, I was on the fence to defend her, but now, she's among the worst. Not even current Disney are like this anymore. That's another thing: people would think Japan is too old school.

[ramenanmitsu]

Well, sadly, I was on the fence to defend her, but now, she's among the worst. Not even current Disney are like this anymore. That's another thing: people would think Japan is too old school.

But then it's the a Western people who like Hinata more than the Japanese. If anything, Western males should also be accused of old school. Many guys hate her here.

[Khaleesi]

Yeah, that's why I don't want him near me for Christmas anymore. Obviously, he can't vent on Kishi so he's going to target me.

Japan must be the most hated country in the Naruto fandom right now.

They probably think we accept relationships where girls are abused or submissive girls are attractive. This is not true. May be true for some deep Otakus. Sigh. What has Kishi done....

Where is he from? Maybe his culture has something to do, and...uhmmm...well... Japanese are very know for their kinks...

The other day, and by other day I mean a month ago, I was talking with a friend of mine about Japanese culture since I was reading about that. Or well, specifically how is to live there if you are from other country, etc. It seems that public demostration of affection is...very tabu? And that you can't even hold hands (?) if you are not married (?) Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit, but my source are foregein girls with a relationship there and the difficultes they passed through. 

So, after a looong explanation of all I've been reading until that moment, she said "I believe that is a sexually represed culture, that's why there is too many kind of perverts. Have you seen that anime pillows?" I laughed.

Yeah, here people have the impression that submissive girls are japanese's deal...or tsunderes? I don't know anymore. But here Hinata is liked for only mysogynist reasons, lol.

The worst thing is that people here also call themselves Otakus without knowing that's kinda an insult in Japan 

They probably want to say they are Akiba-kei.

 

He thinks kitten and Hinata are synonyms. He's a bit arrogant and he hates incompetent, dumb, slow, and insecure people in real life (he's an investment banker so maybe that's why). And he thinks Hinata are all these things so he can't stand her. He fast forwards the anime when she appears.

Him hating Hinata has nothing to do with him liking NS.

I think I just fell in love with him. That frustrates me most and makes me agressive. I believe I'm a better person now, a friend of mine influenced me on that. I'm more patient now..

[TouKen4Life3g]

But then it's the a Western people who like Hinata more than the Japanese. If anything, Western males should also be accused of old school. Many guys hate her here.

Exactly. It's...sigh...wrong man got this premise...

[Atheck]

But then it's the a Western people who like Hinata more than the Japanese. If anything, Western males should also be accused of old school. Many guys hate her here.

 

Didn't that person receive a higher amount of votes in the last favourites poll? I can't imagine why Kishi would choose to allow such a frivilous detail to influence the course of his work that's he been drawing for 15 years. Hopefully the reasons for this ending are not related to popularity. 

 

By the way, a lot of the comments from Tumblr were posted in the chapters' discussion, and supposedly the reactions are mixed to positive or accepting. Could you possibly confirm whether or not this is true? Right now you're probably one of only a few who can translate that we trust here on H&E, Ramen. 

[ramenanmitsu]

Where is he from? Maybe his culture has something to do, and...uhmmm...well... Japanese are very know for their kinks...
The other day, and by other day I mean a month ago, I was talking with a friend of mine about Japanese culture since I was reading about that. Or well, specifically how is to live there if you are from other country, etc. It seems that public demostration of affection is...very tabu? And that you can't even hold hands (?) if you are not married (?) Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit, but my source are foregein girls with a relationship there and the difficultes they passed through. 
So, after a looong explanation of all I've been reading until that moment, she said "I believe that is a sexually represed culture, that's why there is too many kind of perverts. Have you seen that anime pillows?" I laughed.
Yeah, here people have the impression that submissive girls are japanese's deal...or tsunderes? I don't know anymore. But here Hinata is liked for only mysogynist reasons, lol.
The worst thing is that people here also call themselves Otakus without knowing that's kinda an insult in Japan 
They probably want to say they are Akiba-kei.
 

I think I just fell in love with him. That frustrates me most and makes me agressive. I believe I'm a better person now, a friend of mine influenced me on that. I'm more patient now..

  
There are no problems for holding hands in public. I don't really think it's a sexually repressed culture. But the thing is, there are proportion of losers who can never get a girlfriend in real life. These ones are the ones that buy those anime pillow of hentai stuff. They're too afraid of real life girls so they go to anime girls, especially since they don't defy them.

My friend is also an INTP. I'm sure you can get along with him. I think I'm a bit like him too. Although, slightly more calmer.

Exactly. It's...sigh...wrong man got this premise...

I see.
  

Didn't that person receive a higher amount of votes in the last favourites poll? I can't imagine why Kishi would choose to allow such a frivilous detail to influence the course of his work that's he been drawing for 15 years. Hopefully the reasons for this ending are not related to popularity. 
 
By the way, a lot of the comments from Tumblr were posted in the chapters' discussion, and supposedly the reactions are mixed to positive or accepting. Could you possibly confirm whether or not this is true? Right now you're probably one of only a few who can translate that we trust here on H&E, Ramen.

Votes don't really mean anything. In Japan, there are many guys out there who can create systems to automatically multi-poll and they do it for fun. It's happened with Pokemon, Domino Pizza, and many kids series. They enjoy that they have the power to change the results. Also, aggressive fans will vote more frequently (Say, the proportion of Hinata fans voting would be a lot more higher than the proportion of Naruto fans voting.)

Hinata is probably popular. But she's hated a lot too. The number of her anti-threads are twice more than that of any other main characters. And she's only appeared like ten times?

I cannot say what the general opinions of the Japanese are. There are accepting opinions, happy opinions, and opinions saying that they don't understand where this chapter is coming from, un accepting opinions saying that Naruto gave up. There are many different opinions. But as of now, the NaruSaku threads or Anti-Hinata threads, or threads that are filled with dissatisfied people have mostly been taken over by NH fans. So most people can't post there anymore because the thread is filled with people ready to insult you and how wrong you are.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 10 November 2014 - 09:32 PM.