136 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

Personally I would rather have Sasuke as a dad than Naruto. At least he isn't actively ruining my life :) all in all I think Naruto and Sasuke should swith kids tbh, they treat the other's child much better than their own.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

What's disappointing is that they should both be shown on an adulthood journey to become better fathers, overcoming the failings of their own fathers and childhoods...and yet they are not.

 

They are just shown to be simply bad dads. The kids are keenly aware of how Naruto and Sasuke are falling short, but neither Sasuke nor Naruto seem to show much inclination to change their ways of being absentee parents. 

 

On who's the worst, I really can't decide. However, in terms of the story, Sasuke experienced MAJOR trauma as a child, more than simply being shunned like Naruto was. So he's the walking wounded. He's got PTSD for miles, and I would expect him never to get over it.

 

In fact...he's not. He's never had a moment where he's returned from the the dark place he went to after he left Konoha. He's never been welcomed back into the village as a hero (as Naruto did). His forgiveness by the village comes in few sparse words from Kakashi. But the chosen future of his life is still chasing down his demons from the past. The struggle that he was fighting from part 1 is still not over.

 

So his treatment of Sarada, in the context of the story, feels much more authentic than Naruto's lax treatment of his own children. And his own life in general. And this is a problem because the bar for Naruto is set so much higher than Sasuke.

 

Naruto was shunned but won recognition in the village by the end of the Pain arc. Next he has problems personally being the hero, but he overcame that too. Fast forward and he wins the affection of the girl he loved since childhood, then wins the war to come home to a hero's welcome, again, and now he's recognized by all the villages/countries. 

 

Along the way he reconnects with both his father and mother in very meaningful ways, and now he can move into his adult life fully understanding their commitment to him, and what they lost in being killed on the day he was born.

 

So WHHHYYYY then does Naruto go about his adult career and parenting responsibilities with such childish apathy? He was supposed to surpass his elders - so we should see a Konoha at peace but with new threats facing Naruto. Not facebook, booze and ramen. He was supposed to have learn from his parents' sacrifice - so why then does he act neglectful to his own kids/family?

 

Why is Naruto shown as 'same as usual' instead of growing and changing from the challenges that faced him in childhood? Why hasn't he become the leader/parent who has learned from the mistakes of those who went before him to shape the future of Konoha?

 

If he were Konoha's best leader and an active parent and still had problems connecting with Boruto, then that would be a real story!

 

But right now, after seeing NAruto be the same person he was at 15-17, it's no surprise he can't connect with his kid. Naruto's still a kid too!!

 

But to set Naruto and Sasuke at the same parenting levels, just on either sides of Konoha's walls, is completely wrong. Sasuke was traumatized and never recovered. Naruto had the whole story, 700 chapters, to document his journey of becoming a true hero, and yet even with all the ground covered, he's still basically the same.

 

I guess it's not that I see one of them as a worse parent than the other. It's that the reasons why they are both terrible parents are terribly out of balance. Sasuke's shortcomings are justified, but Naruto's simply are not. He has no excuse. 

 

Sasuke had no role models, he was only raised with death and revenge. And any mentor was using him as a pawn.

 

But this was Naruto's story, and he puts those who that have come before him (and taught him by example how to be a good leader and parent) to shame.

 

(sorry for the long LAP!! lol)

And that's what was brought up before - anyone with common sense isn't surprised by, and expected Sasuke to be this way as a parent, and that was only IF he became a parent (which many didn't expect him to). Naruto, on the other hand, no one expected him to turn out like this simply because of his journey of supposedly "learning from the past" and "surpassing the previous generation" and so on. And this only further proves what I keep saying about neither Naruto nor Sasuke being Kage material in the least outside of brute power.

[James S Cassidy]

Agree with all of you guys.

Expecting that Sasuke would be a bad father while Naruto would be a good one doesn't change that they're both kitten dads in canon, and Sasuke is technically the worst of the two

 

Expectations that you had regarding characters shouldn't  be a part of this analysis in particular

I never expected Sasuke to be a father in the first place and he is not father material.

It's like Who is the worst father? The one that is always home, but abuses his kids and neglects them or the father that is never home and let's the kids decide for themselves?

They are both the worst parents on the block because they don't do right by their children. They don't want to be with them and they find them more of a burden than something they created. You can't say one is worse or better based on each other.

I mean, let's be more fair on this one. Let's compare Sasuke and Naruto to Rock Lee being a parent. From ONE PANEL we get this sense of Rock Lee always being there for his kid, Metal Lee; always training and encouraging him to get stronger. I can see times where Metal Lee cries and Rock Lee would just pick him up and telling him "It's alright, Stand up and keep going."

ONE PANEL and I can tell Rock Lee is an amazing parent. Meanwhile Sasuke and Naruto get several panels showing their adult life and....well, they suck. They don't want their kids. They don't care. One could argue all these fine details, but then there is nothing to show me otherwise. How messed up is that? One panel showed me more proof than anything else simply because I know Rock Lee's character. Naruto and Sasuke almost literally say they are only there for their kids out of obligation, not love.

So compared to Rock Lee, Naruto and Sasuke are the worst dads on the planet who secretly have a homosexual relationship off to the side. No amount of "technicalities" will excuse this, but then again this is a series were consequences just don't matter. Your kids are gonna love you eventually because "love doesn't need a reason" no matter how badly you treat them.

Bold: It kind of does actually. Naruto is a person who was said to connect to people through their emotions. This was the premise of his entire character that he understood and knew their pain. So with understanding comes compassion, but the not the case with Naruto here. All of a sudden, he connects with no one and just tells them to "endure it." Or at least when it comes to his own family. Yet, when Salad is upset and needs a pep-talk, he won't shut up. Why is his character basically switched off when it comes to his own family? Why is he so cold to them, but so warm to everyone else?

Do you understand the problem here? For Some reason, Naruto hates his family. As one theorist posted, it was probably because his own kids caused him to not be Hokage officially and miss his own inauguration which he is majorly butthurt about. So he hates his kids and his wife for letting this crap happen.
 

 

New question; Who's the worst wife? It isn't like Sakura and Hinata are poor victims of their husbands, but I think Sakura is worst imo.

That is an even more loaded question than the other one.

Hinata seems to have no say in her kids behavior whether out of choice or obliviousness. She has no control over any one of them and...well, there is just not enough of her interacting with her kids to truly give a definitive answer.

Sakura on the other hand, while has shown aggression, also was caring and loving to Salad.

We can try to "imagine" and "fill in the blanks," but just going off by what we are given. Hinata just sits around and does nothing, but make scarfs and cakes and have horny thoughts about Bolt because "He looks like Naruto." She doesn't discipline or speak up. She doesn't call out on Naruto's bull either.

 

She is literally the definition of what sexist men call "The perfect women." "Make my clothes, do the female work, shut up, and occasionally suck my kunai.....when I feel like it."

Of course, Sakura doesn't speak up against Sasuke, so she takes it out on Salad.

That's another tough one.

Again, it is going back to my question:
"Who is the worst parent? The one that is always there, but abuses their kids and neglects them or the parent that is never there and let's the kids decide for themselves?"

T he answer is....none. They are both the worst kind of parents...just opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 30 October 2015 - 02:24 AM.

[Nar123]

I never expected Sasuke to be a father in the first place and he is not father material.

It's like Who is the worst father? The one that is always home, but abuses his kids and neglects them or the father that is never home and let's the kids decide for themselves?

They are both the worst parents on the block because they don't do right by their children. They don't want to be with them and they find them more of a burden than something they created. You can't say one is worse or better based on each other.

I mean, let's be more fair on this one. Let's compare Sasuke and Naruto to Rock Lee being a parent. From ONE PANEL we get this sense of Rock Lee always being there for his kid, Metal Lee; always training and encouraging him to get stronger. I can see times where Metal Lee cries and Rock Lee would just pick him up and telling him "It's alright, Stand up and keep going."

ONE PANEL and I can tell Rock Lee is an amazing parent. Meanwhile Sasuke and Naruto get several panels showing their adult life and....well, they suck. They don't want their kids. They don't care. One could argue all these fine details, but then there is nothing to show me otherwise. How messed up is that? One panel showed me more proof than anything else simply because I know Rock Lee's character. Naruto and Sasuke almost literally say they are only there for their kids out of obligation, not love.

So compared to Rock Lee, Naruto and Sasuke are the worst dads on the planet who secretly have a homosexual relationship off to the side. No amount of "technicalities" will excuse this, but then again this is a series were consequences just don't matter. Your kids are gonna love you eventually because "love doesn't need a reason" no matter how badly you treat them.

 

 

Bold: It kind of does actually. Naruto is a person who was said to connect to people through their emotions. This was the premise of his entire character that he understood and knew their pain. So with understanding comes compassion, but the not the case with Naruto here. All of a sudden, he connects with no one and just tells them to "endure it." Or at least when it comes to his own family. Yet, when Salad is upset and needs a pep-talk, he won't shut up. Why is his character basically switched off when it comes to his own family? Why is he so cold to them, but so warm to everyone else?

Do you understand the problem here? For Some reason, Naruto hates his family. As one theorist posted, it was probably because his own kids caused him to not be Hokage officially and miss his own inauguration which he is majorly butthurt about. So he hates his kids and his wife for letting this crap happen.

 

 

 

It's okay if you had expectations for how Naruto would be as a father and didn't had any for how Sasuke would be, it's understandable that Naruto's behavior as a father is a bigger disappointment than how Sasuke is as a father for most people because they expected better of Naruto, I understand this.

 

I just don't think the disappointment you have against one character has a place in such an analysis of "who is the worst father?" since it's an objective question, perharps if the question was "Based on how the story progressed and the hype around Naruto and Saskue as fathers, who turned out to be the worst dad?"

Edited by Nar123, 02 November 2015 - 07:24 PM.

[Frankie]

I never expected Sasuke to be a father in the first place and he is not father material.

It's like Who is the worst father? The one that is always home, but abuses his kids and neglects them or the father that is never home and let's the kids decide for themselves?

They are both the worst parents on the block because they don't do right by their children. They don't want to be with them and they find them more of a burden than something they created. You can't say one is worse or better based on each other.

I mean, let's be more fair on this one. Let's compare Sasuke and Naruto to Rock Lee being a parent. From ONE PANEL we get this sense of Rock Lee always being there for his kid, Metal Lee; always training and encouraging him to get stronger. I can see times where Metal Lee cries and Rock Lee would just pick him up and telling him "It's alright, Stand up and keep going."

ONE PANEL and I can tell Rock Lee is an amazing parent. Meanwhile Sasuke and Naruto get several panels showing their adult life and....well, they suck. They don't want their kids. They don't care. One could argue all these fine details, but then there is nothing to show me otherwise. How messed up is that? One panel showed me more proof than anything else simply because I know Rock Lee's character. Naruto and Sasuke almost literally say they are only there for their kids out of obligation, not love.

So compared to Rock Lee, Naruto and Sasuke are the worst dads on the planet who secretly have a homosexual relationship off to the side. No amount of "technicalities" will excuse this, but then again this is a series were consequences just don't matter. Your kids are gonna love you eventually because "love doesn't need a reason" no matter how badly you treat them.


 

This is why Rock Lee is boss! #TeamRockLee

[NarutoxSakuraFan4Life]

Both.

 

Naruto doesn't have time for either of his kids. Boruto hates his guts and can't even be proud that his dad is the Hokage.

 

Sasuke didn't visit his kid once in 12 years, tried to kill her, and stayed with her for one whole day (whoo) because Sarada found him and drug him out of hiding. 

[One Piece Nation]

i think there is several scenes like that.. smiling at his victory in chunnin exams, calming him down after naruto's clone dropped the cake, and i think there's a scene where she blushes when bolt wears naruto's old clothes because they are so alike..

 

i didn't see the movie though, these are just what i heard from forums

I saw it and I must say I loved it the fights were god like. Naruto and Boruto stuff was great it got me to nearly cry it was done so well. would I prefer NaruSaku yes but I say but I am looking at Boruto for who he is and not Naruto's son and you know what I like Boruto and it was funny very funny hell  Sarada said this to Sakura "mom I know your even Happier thats dad back than me you have been have lots of fun" and really if you are a Naruto fan you will like it solely due to the fact that the pairings barely are there mostly Naruto and Sasuke and Boruto.         

[Illnevergiveup3]

I can't blame them. They ended up with kids from the women they never wanted.

[sushi.]

I can't blame them. They ended up with kids from the women they never wanted.

So? Those women didn't force them. They were never the types to fall for guilt tripping either. You could say Kishimoto forced them, but your argument only works from the perspective of their universe, thus dragging the author in wouldn't work.

[AHK]

Personally I would rather have Sasuke as a dad than Naruto. At least he isn't actively ruining my life :) all in all I think Naruto and Sasuke should swith kids tbh, they treat the other's child much better than their own.

Much better to have a father that tries to kill you the first time he's ever met you than someone who's actually there

[Illnevergiveup3]

So? Those women didn't force them. They were never the types to fall for guilt tripping either. You could say Kishimoto forced them, but your argument only works from the perspective of their universe, thus dragging the author in wouldn't work.

If I was forced to be with a woman I didn't love, I would be one of the worst dads in the world as well. And while it is technically true that the women didn't force them, the fact remains that they ended up with women they didn't truly want to be with from the get go and isn't happy about it, which leads to them being terrible fathers. And wasn't Naruto technically forced into marrying Hinata in the first place?

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 05 November 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[Nar123]

If I was forced to be with a woman I didn't love, I would be one of the worst dads in the world as well. And while it is technically true that the women didn't force them, the fact remains that they ended up with women they didn't truly want to be with from the get go and isn't happy about it, which leads to them being terrible fathers.

This is awful, you'd be punishing an innocent child just because of a bad relationship with the other parent

Even if Hinata and Sakura forced them somehow it doesnt excuse Naruto + Sasuke behavior with their children

[Illnevergiveup3]

This is awful, you'd be punishing an innocent child just because of a bad relationship with the other parent

Even if Hinata and Sakura forced them somehow it doesnt excuse Naruto + Sasuke behavior with their children

Maybe I said it in an awful way. What I mean is if I ended up with a girl I didn't love, and we had kids. It would really hurt. But I would never blame the child for the choices I made. I would take care of him or her because he's my child.

And I know it doesn't excuse their behavior, but if you're not happy, It would be easy to take out your frustration on everyone, the kids included. You would just want to leave and not deal with them.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Basically, one is stuck between a rock and a hard place in such a situation (of their own making).

Do they stay with the family they never truly wanted out of nothing more than obligation and pretend to be minimally happy for as long as they can until the truth is inevitably discovered somehow and everyone is hurt or do they get out as soon as they can and hurt the family anyway?

[James S Cassidy]

This is awful, you'd be punishing an innocent child just because of a bad relationship with the other parent

Even if Hinata and Sakura forced them somehow it doesnt excuse Naruto + Sasuke behavior with their children

It doesn't excuse Sakura's and Hinata's behavior either.

The girls that BLACKMAILED the males in their life to be with them. Karin is the only girl in this series who cared more about the person she loved than her own needs. As psychotic as she is, she did the one that wasn't crazy. She let Sasuke go. She may not have stopped loving him, but she let him go for the fake of his happiness. Neither Hinata nor Sakura can say that. Not one of them can say that. They are the WORST people in this series and by far the MOST selfish. Everything bad about Sasuke and Naruto being bad parents is just as much their fault as it is Naruto's and Sasuke's. It takes two to tango.

Did anyone ask how Sasuke and Naruto felt? Did ANY character in this series asked Naruto and Sasuke how they truly felt? Only one did. Sai....Sai asked Naruto how he truly felt....and this one scene of this person actually giving a crap how Naruto felt...is ignored by every single Naruto fan. Sasuke...NOONE asked him how he felt. Not even Naruto.

You're gonna have to calculate every single sin these "heroes" made....because not one of them are good people. Just selfish adults.

 

Maybe I said it in an awful way. What I mean is if I ended up with a girl I didn't love, and we had kids. It would really hurt. But I would never blame the child for the choices I made. I would take care of him or her because he's my child.

And I know it doesn't excuse their behavior, but if you're not happy, It would be easy to take out your frustration on everyone, the kids included. You would just want to leave and not deal with them.

I would rather tell my family the truth and figure out how to fix everything even if it meant divorce...than to keep living a lie and avoiding them. No matter what, the kids are suffering for the parents mistakes....the least the parents could do is feel sorry for it...or at least....AT LEAST....try to make the pain less hurtful. Because right now...avoiding it is not solving the problem either. Naruto not being home and telling his son to "endure" does NOT solve the problem.
 

 

Basically, one is stuck between a rock and a hard place in such a situation (of their own making).

Do they stay with the family they never truly wanted out of nothing more than obligation and pretend to be minimally happy for as long as they can until the truth is inevitably discovered somehow and everyone is hurt or do they get out as soon as they can and hurt the family anyway?

Exactly. There is no right choice. There is no right answer. You either do one thing or the other and someone is gonna get the hurt. The kids will always pay the price for their parent's mistakes because they themselves are too stuck up to admit it themselves or too prideful to tell the truth.

If it was me...and I had to make that hard choice. I would tell my children the truth. I am not happy with your mother. I can't pretend to do this anymore. It is not you...it me and your mom. Our family...our love for eachother is gone. It's not because of what you did...it is because we were too stupid to know the truth. I am sorry for putting you in the crossfire.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 November 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Face it they are all kitten parents everyone in Konoha all of them, I mean look at this

 

 

While we all know that Big Boss was not the best of dads because they were all clones and knew what they were going to be used for he still even thou he never saw Snake as a son he still respected Snake as a soldier, and as a man. Heck another one was "Let it go...My son. I'm not here to fight." That is just powerful and show how good Kojima is and why he is better at Kishi.

[VanitasDS76491]

All I can add is that Homer Simpson is a better dad that Sasuke and Naruto.

Agreed so are Jecht (Final Fantasy X), Joel (The Last of Us), Minato obviously, Jor-El (Superman), Odin(Thor), Booker DeWitt( Bioshock Infinite), Isshin Siba (Bleach),  Master Splinter (TMNT), John Marston (Red Dead Redemption), Goku/Vegeta/ Piccolo (DBZ), Sparda (Devil May Cry),

Giovanni Auditore (Assassin's Creed II), Big Boss Aka Naked Snake( Metal Gear Solid), Igneel (Fairy Tail). Did I miss anyone.