19441 replies to this topic

[Ether]

Actually, this explains a lot. I'm thinking Kishimoto had this 'first crush' mentality for women for a good portion of the manga.

 

So, what was Obito then? Clearly, he followed the same logic and is apparently the only male character to do so. Why? Because it was convenient to making him the villain.

[Aeria7Gloris]

I'm aleady pretty disgusted by those leaks but seeing the gifs on Tumblr will be the death of me. How can you kitten up so bad?

 

Edited by Aeria7Gloris, 24 November 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Nefertieh]

Took a Philosphy of Art class one semester and we grappled with the concept of who determines the intent of the art, the creator or the audience member? Who determines its beauty, its worth, its social impact, etc. And throughout the whole class, we came back to it again and again, this tug-of-war between artist and artwork for control.
 
Ultimately it becomes clear the there is the artist and there is h/her creative child. And they are entirely separate creatures. Just like a real parent-child, the parent only has control for so long, then the child begins to impact the world in their own way. And the creator has no more control, whether they want it or not.

I understand what you mean. The famous quote "Et tu, Brute?" Is often mistaken as Caesar being surprised that Brutus would betray him, although many historians point out this is a misinterpretation, he was actually angry to find Brutus betrayed him. It was also because of the language differences, ofcourse. The quote has a life of it's own, sure, but if Caesar's death was a novel written by John Doe, then John Doe's original intent would probably be significant to the person analysing the text.
 

In the short term, Kishimoto dismantled his whole storyline and sold out his creative child to insure that his new series does well. But in the long term I predict that the manga ending, the movie, the new series and all the publicity surrounding it will pale in comparison to the other 698 chapters of the manga. And that people will remember the manga not as some long developed love story or even a friendship tale, but as a perfect example of what not to do to your fans or to your own creation. In the end, Naruto will become a cautionary tale and will be referenced as such. Always with the qualifier of "Back in the beginning, when it was still good."

It's a shame, really. I didn't want to see Naruto and Sakura being assassinated by their maker in the ending of this series.

[AHK]

Took a Philosphy of Art class one semester and we grappled with the concept of who determines the intent of the art, the creator or the audience member? Who determines its beauty, its worth, its social impact, etc. And throughout the whole class, we came back to it again and again, this tug-of-war between artist and artwork for control.
 
Ultimately it becomes clear the there is the artist and there is h/her creative child. And they are entirely separate creatures. Just like a real parent-child, the parent only has control for so long, then the child begins to impact the world in their own way. And the creator has no more control, whether they want it or not.
 
In the short term, Kishimoto dismantled his whole storyline and sold out his creative child to insure that his new series does well. But in the long term I predict that the manga ending, the movie, the new series and all the publicity surrounding it will pale in comparison to the other 698 chapters of the manga. And that people will remember the manga not as some long developed love story or even a friendship tale, but as a perfect example of what not to do to your fans or to your own creation. In the end, Naruto will become a cautionary tale and will be referenced as such. Always with the qualifier of "Back in the beginning, when it was still good."

I feel like there should be a separate option next to the "like" button specifically dedicated to tricksie so we can like all of your godly posts and have enough for everyone else too, I swear, in recent weeks, I think most of my time spent here is pressing the like button on anything you write XD

I agree with everything you said here. It seems like Kishi completely forgot about the aspects of the rhetoric triangle, or just didn't know about it period, which is unfathomable for a writer. To completely shatter the balance between the three is a disservice to his work, an insult to the fans, and shows a complete and utter lack of respect for his work, specifically in regards to the messages he sent with this ending, willingly or no.

[tricksie]

Ok, I swear this is my last bit about this:

 

It's a terrible deception to tell your readers that your wrong. It implies that you weren't a good enough fan. Because if you were you would have read it differently. It's confusing and hurtful. Especially since NS fans were the most loyal.

 

We wanted what Naruto wanted. If the development had been there for him to change his mind, then most fans would have moved with him. But no pairings were ever developed except NS. And that is the truth, no matter how you read it. 

 

Again, the Naruto series will be remembered for how it screwed up, not what it did right.

[Catwho]

Had a thought.

 

The Last will become the "Star Wars Holiday Special" of the Naruto franchise.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Holiday_Special

 

The special is notorious for its extremely negative reception.^[1] Anthony Daniels, in a documentary promoting the worldwide tour of Star Wars: In Concert, notes with a laugh that the Star Wars universe includes "The horrible Holiday Special that nobody talks about". Nathan Rabin of the AV Club wrote, "I'm not convinced the special wasn’t ultimately written and directed by a sentient bag of cocaine."^[3]"

[Nami]

But seriously people what the heck did I just read? Naruto liked Sakura only because his rivalry with Sasuke? What does that even mean!?

 

Okay so basically when Naruto said he finally understood why he liked Sakura so much, he didn't mean that he liked her because of her personality and their similar goals and aspirations. He meant he liked her because... Sasuke doesn't give a damn about her and somehow that makes him hot... When he risked his life to save Gaara, in reality he wasn't just focused on her well-being, he wanted to save her... so his rival can continue not giving a damn about her... When so many people considered Sakura his girlfriend and he confirmed it, they didn't really mean girlfriend, they meant... um that girl you like because your rival doesn't give a damn about her.

 

OMG you guys this is finally starting to make sense! Naruto likes girls Sasuke couldn't care less about! He only liked Sakura because Sasuke at least acknowledged her a teeny tiny bit... sometimes when he was in a really good mood... But with Hinata.. well that's obviously true love because Sasuke doesn't even know she exists! He had to get him some of that.

[shisui]

He did though. >.< Kind of. In the end of Part I, he said "maybe Sakura-chan will start to like me!"

 

Maybe is not a definite.

 

 

Ns fans? It's a huge slap in Naruto fans face...He just made the main charactor look like a petty moron.

 

I wouldn't say Naruto fans, but he did make him look like a petty moron. It's true Naruto used to be a petty moron in the beginning of the manga, but him wanting to be accepted and seeing that in others wasn't part of his petty moron act.

[dejavu]

They could have said Naruto simply matured and moved on, since its true he never listed Sakura as one of his goals. Retconing his feelings like this, where they are weak and just because of a rivalry, is a huge slap in the face of NS fans. It was unnecessary, people don't always end with their first love.

 

 

 

 

 

It's more of a slap to Naruto's character more than NaruSaku.

 

This boy whose selling point is valuing bonds, not going back on his own words, never giving up...

his view towards love is suppose to be strong... he was the type of person who would not treat anyone's feelings lightheartedly.

 

your last statement was similar to mine when i still ship SS.

that people don't necessarily end up with their first love.

but even back then i know, and deeply respect the great foothold NS have because of Naruto's strong feelings for Sakura.

 

This is a cowardly act.

 

Let this boy who turn into a man accept THAT kind of fact naturally, without taking back his development.

If he would get rejected, or things just won't go well with Sakura then fine... it is sad but definitely not something one should throw away or turn into something insignificant.

 

you should close the first door first before you open a new one.

 

NS did happen.

 

all they need to do is to take this in consideration like any sane person would..from there they could start their nh stuff

 

Naruto's love was true. everyone should know that. or are they just really THAT threaten to NS that they need to go this far?

 

It is more of Naruto's character to accept some things that cannot be rather than downplaying moments or developments which are suppose to be meaningful to the growth of the MC.

[Ether]

But seriously people what the heck did I just read? Naruto liked Sakura only because his rivalry with Sasuke? What does that even mean!?

 

Okay so basically when Naruto said he finally understood why he liked Sakura so much, he didn't mean that he liked her because of her personality and their similar goals and aspirations. He meant he liked her because... Sasuke doesn't give a damn about her and somehow that makes him hot... When he risked his life to save Gaara, in reality he wasn't just focused on her well-being, he wanted to save her... so his rival can continue not giving a damn about her... When so many people considered Sakura his girlfriend and he confirmed it, they didn't really mean girlfriend, they meant... um that girl you like because your rival doesn't give a damn about her.

 

OMG you guys this is finally starting to make sense! Naruto likes girls Sasuke couldn't care less about! He only liked Sakura because Sasuke at least acknowledged her a teeny tiny bit... sometimes when he was in a really good mood... But with Hinata.. well that's obviously true love because Sasuke doesn't even know she exists! He had to get him some of that.

I think this just confirms that Naruto loved Sasuke all along, but Kishimoto didn't have the guts to go the yaoi route.

[tricksie]

I feel like there should be a separate option next to the "like" button specifically dedicated to tricksie so we can like all of your godly posts and have enough for everyone else too, I swear, in recent weeks, I think most of my time spent here is pressing the like button on anything you write XD

I agree with everything you said here. It seems like Kishi completely forgot about the aspects of the rhetoric triangle, or just didn't know about it period, which is unfathomable for a writer. To completely shatter the balance between the three is a disservice to his work, an insult to the fans, and shows a complete and utter lack of respect for his work, specifically in regards to the messages he sent with this ending, willingly or no.

 

   omg you're so sweet!   

 

Yes you're exactly right, and what hurts is that people end up questioning themselves. That they've somehow misunderstood what they were reading, what was being reinforced over and over. It's a terrible thing to do to fans. 

 

Had a thought.

 

The Last will become the "Star Wars Holiday Special" of the Naruto franchise.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Holiday_Special

 

 

*gasp* I didn't know this was a thing! And yeah, from the looks of it, I wholeheartedly agree. Lol, one of the guys from the AV club suggested the thing was directed by "a sentient bag of cocaine." Too funny.

 

I don't think Kishimoto will ever speak negatively against this turn of events. After all, he knows how to play this game. But I firmly believe one day he will admit something vague and careless that is really a larger window into his true opinion. Something like "Yes, it could have gone a different way...but it didn't."

 

And again, I think the fact the manga itself had a vague ending — the one thing Kishimoto had the most control over — was a statement of Kishimoto's true feelings. In the end, the only thing he knew he wanted to have happen was Naruto redeeming Sasuke. The rest he just didn't really care about. Sakura was seemingly awarded to Sasuke, and that left Hinata for Naruto, the end. The story wrapped up in order of importance, Sasuke first, then Naruto.

[ThroughWithLove]

Leaked plot summary of the entire movie:

[LuckyChi7]

You know with Part 3, which one of my friend is kinda looking forward to, but she was saying what if there is a final conversation between Naruto and Sakura, think of how things happened with Jiraiya and Tsunade before he died. Something happens and Naruto has to take desperate measures, and Sakura has one final conversation, and come an enemy stronger than him (not sure how considering where his level stands now) which leads to his death in Part 3. It would give Bolt a lot of character development and Sarada could be there for him similar with Pain in a sense. That's just a thought she had. 

 

 

My thing is Part 3 is only suppose to last 4 to 6 months, and I'm just like idk I mean had Part 3 be like what 2 or 3 years then maybe. Again, I'm not looking forward to Part 3, but there is a small part of me 2-3% that's like let's just see where it goes. However after the whole  deal with Kishi's interview I just a different viewpoint on him and his work now, and believe me it's in good standards at all. 

[Nami]

Leaked plot summary of the entire movie:

 "Naruto remembers back for all the moments he had with Hinata" LOL that has to be the shortest flashback in the history of Naruto.

Edited by Nami, 24 November 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Sakura tries to protect Sasuke, but from nowhere, Karin jumps and saves both of them with her life. Karin shares her last chakra with them, thanks Sakura for saving her life back then and asks Sakura to protect Sasuke, then tells Sasuke to value Sakura, because there are not so much girl like her who can sincerely love someone like him, then dies. Kyomu gloats about Karin’s death and how Sasuke could never ever protect anyone, neither his parents nor Itachi and now Karin, telling to a broken, shattered Sasuke to commit suicide for being a failure of everyone he ever loved, only to being silenced by Sakura by grabbing his tounge, ripping it off then punch him into a wall. Sakura quickly revives Sasuke’s soul and heart and together they defeat Kyomu, who, in his final moments, still gloating about Sasuke’s fears that he will never be able to protect anyone. Sasuke then tells to Sakura that what Kyomu said was true (the Uchiha clan massacare), and also tells her that the reason why he wanted to pushing her away, was because he both was scared to create new bonds and wanted to protect her from himself and the possibilty that she would die one day because of him, even if he had to make her hating him (revealing that he just pretended his „attempts” to killing her: at the first „attempt of kill” he saw Kakashi coming and wanted to make them believe he wants kill her, and that he knew that Sakura tried to stab him from behind under the bridge from the beginning, but wished to be killed by Sakura, allowing her a chance to do it until Naruto’s arrive, then, after notcied Naruto, tried to make Sakura hate him again by wounding her but he wounded Naruto instead – he just played he wanted to kill her, but in reality, he just wanted to make her hate him). After that, Sasuke confesses that he loved her since they were genins, and kneels down before her and asks Sakura’s forgiveness. Sakura says that she has forgiven him and she doesn’t blame his father for his action, since it has been revealed that Fugaku and the Uchihas were just victims of a mad man and a failed system, telling him that a new era will start soon, where nothing like this would ever happen, making Sasuke crying from both remorse and happiness.

 

[tricksie]

 "Naruto remembers back for all the moments he had with Hinata" LOL that has to be the shortest flashback in the history of Naruto.

 

Bwahahahaha!!!!! So true!!

[Nate River]

Leaked plot summary of the entire movie:

I got about 2 paragraphs in and quit. It seems really heavy handed and sounds like it's just making kitten up as it goes along.

Read some more: So now we're retconning the Kyuubi attack on the village to deflect some of the blame off of Obito? Like Black Zetsu?

You made Obito a piece of kitten Kishimoto. Live with it and stop trying to justify that horrible line.

It's even worse than I imagined.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I got about 2 paragraphs in and quit. It seems really heavy handed and sounds like it's just making kitten up as it goes along.

 

I know how you feel, Nate, except I was like "UGH. It's basically a horrible NH fanfic..."

 

Also, lemme reiterate something I posted before about this and everything else since the series ended;

 

[Nar123]

Leaked plot summary of the entire movie:

The movie is a NH/SS Fest

[Nar123]

Apparently sasuke loved sakura since they were genins (wtf)
Karin will really die


This movie stinks