4869 replies to this topic

[RyrineaHaruno]

I don't really think it matter if they only watch the anime or what because in both manga and anime, it shows no sign of him even noticing Hinata let alone talking to her, so i don't even see how they can think of the idea in the first place. I think they just see that fact that a cute shy girl like Naruto, so they automaticlly begin to make fantasies in their head and then look at the manga through those fantasies and canceling out everything else that goes against said fantasies. That;s my thought anyway and if anyone has a better answer, please tell me because i honestly don't see how people can be so stubborn as to not even notice what the hecks going on in the manga. (Once again this is not bashing and in no way am trying to bash NaruHina fans.)

I believe that too really, they block out most moments every time this one chick thought Lee never confessed nor did Ino. Yeah they did in the forest of death arc but they seem to block out everything that is not convent to their shipping. They make themselves believe that it didn't happen or something like that. So they make themselves believe that KHISHIMOTO WOULD NEVER BREAK HINATA HEART.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 12 April 2009 - 03:08 AM.

[Jenskott]

I try to be pairing neutral, though in recent weeks I've considered the possibility of Naruto hooking up with Hinata because she confessed. I just don't believe Kishi to be overthinking on this. If he had her confess, then the possibilities of Naruto hooking up with her are pretty high at this point.

I'd tell the possibilities are higher than before -which wasn't very high-, but I wouldn't tell they are pretty high.

I have considered the possibility, too. But given the entire development of the manga, I highly doubt that. It's entirely pausible he had her confessing for closing that plot thread and even for furthering Naruto/Sakura's relationship.

Again, Sakura confessed Sasuke. And they didn't hook up. Lee confessed Sakura. And they didn't hook up.

Sincerely, if we had just five chapters of manga left, then yes, I could believe perhaps he'd intend hook them up all of sudden. But there're not five chapters left. It's too soon for the main character getting together with someone because there's still a good chunk of story left. Unfortunately, that chunk isn't big enough for developing NaruHina in a believable fashion, specially when Kishimoto has been ignoring it for over three hundred chapters, and he didn't even develop the relationship when he had one chance. And given how little pannel time Hinata has, he SHOULD if he WANTS.

He can afford losing chances with Sakura because she's a main supporting character, and she frequently shows up. But with Hinata, he couldn't afford that. Still, he did.

Don't get me wrong, I originally thought Naruto would hook up with Sakura, but after she confessed to Sasuke I just didn't see how it was going to happen. We're not talking about some crazy romance manga, so these things don't get that complicated.

That's funny. I always thought Naruto would hook up with Sakura, and Sakura's confession scene cemented my belief because it happened right like I expected: she confessed and Sasuke rejected her (it seems like if you're stubbornly ignoring that part for some reason). That scene read to me like the time where SasuSaku finally died. The next developments (Sakura reaching Naruto out and realizing he always understood her, Sakura wanting visiting Naruto in the hospital first, Sakura trying taking Sasuke down in the Team 7 reunion, Sakura never again talking or pondering her feelings about Sasuke...) cemented, again, my opinion.

Kishimoto can be somewhat unpredictable, but romantic development in this manga has been entirely predictable and expectable.

Naruto says he likes Sakura, but they've never had any romantic moments that weren't comedy.

Man, he's admited Naruto says he likes Sakura. I'm seeing an improvement.

That statement is a lie and it's been proved time and again it's a lie. I have no time or interest for citing ALL moments prove otherwise, but I can mention what happened during Sakura and Ino's fight, Naruto thinking he'd protect SAKURA-CHAN, not matter what, during Gaara's fight, the Promise of a Lifetime, the second Bell Test, the battle in Heaven and Earth Bridge...

Moreover, in case of you try claiming the majority of moments have been comedic... in shonen mangas, the majority of moments between CANON couples tend to be comedic. If you've watched Slayers, most of the moments between Lina and Gourry are comedic, and if they are serious, they're interrupted. However you also have moments where Lina almost destroyed the world for saving Gourry.

Furthermore, why would the comedic nature of those romantic moments would invalidate they ARE romantic moments?

Hinata fainting when she saw Naruto were comedic-based scenes. Does it invalidates her romantic feelings?

I'm reading the same manga as you are, but we have different points of view.

No. When/If you tell "Sakura loves Naruto like a friend", then we're having different points of view. If you tell me Naruto has never liked Sakura, then you are stating an opinion based entirely on your bias and your wishful thinking, not in the canon source, because the canon source blatantly states other thing.

It's like if you tell me Sakura is very violent because she punches Naruto every chapter. She's punched him half dozen of times in the whole series -the last one of them happening 145 chapters ago-, so the official source invalidates your statement like a biased and unfounded opinion.

As I said, if things were so obvious, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The things are PRETTY obvious to someone who has been watching anime since the early eighties, like it's the case of me and my Naruto-watching friends. Neither of them watches the series for the pairings and NEITHER OF THEM thinks Naruto will hook up with Hinata, even with the recent development.

Fanboys/girls are ALWAYS arguing about couples, even when those couples became canon in the original source. I've seen people arguing about couples in Ranma, Urusei Yatsura, Rurouni Kenshin, Slayers, Yu Yu Hakusho... and all of them are mangas/animes where it's clear who is in love with who, and it was clear since the beginning. However, given that they didn't like the official couple, they denied they were in love and looked for excuses, ignoring anything didn't favor their shipping.

I still remember some people claiming Ranma and Akane wouldn't get together because Rumiko Takahashi wasn't such a predictable of a writer, and Ranma hook up with Shampoo (that person also was a Ranma/Shampoo shipper and hated Akane). Guess what? Ranma hooked up with Akane because it was the logical outcome to the history.

Oh, and I agree that Sakura's comment is a bit vague, but I think the spirit of it is that she's commenting on how Hinata did what she did because of how she feels about Naruto. I guess we as readers know what's going on, so there's no reason to spell it out. Or he likes us to debate over this stuff.... Heh, heh.

Of course he likes us debating over this stuff. It keeps people interested in the history, and reading the manga.

Still don't see what you're getting at. Manga/Anime = no difference in how Sakura acts.

I disagree. Anime uses to exaggerate some traits of the characters -right like fanfiction, let's think of it-. Sakura is a fangirl and slightly violent? They make her more obsessed and violent. Hinata faints sometimes? They make her pathetically shy and timid. Naruto isn't very bright? They turn him into a blithering idiot.

Sakura never was so violent in the manga, so there IS one difference.

Anyway I'd be a poor debater in this argument because I barely watch the anime.

Which brings me to the next point I want making: why do I think NaruSaku is obvious?

I got in Naruto cause of a friend of mine lent me his volumes (he never talked me about pairings, by the way). I would read one volume, two, three, even four or five, in one go. Obviously, those are a lot chapters.

Therefore, I never wondered where he was going with this, or if this character would shouw up or not.

I had read the whole first part before ever checking for fanworks. Sasuke had already met Karin before I visited message boards for first time. The first anime episodes I saw were Naruto Shippuden 1-2.

So you see, I never was influenced by fillers, fandom or fanworks. I never assumed NaruHina was canon because apparently all the world shipped it or told it was canon.

I'd read a bunch of mangas and watched a bunch of animes before reading Naruto. When I read chapter three and I saw: a) Naruto telling he liked Sakura; b) Sakura shouting when she saw him, calling him names and punching him and c) Sakura considering treating Naruto better henceforth, I thought the main pairing was obvious.

Then I read the next chapters: Naruto chased Sakura who chased Sasuke who didn't care. And slowly we had scenes where Sakura hinted Sakura began seeing Naruto in other light: Sakura getting amazed when she saw him using Kage Bunshin; Sakura blushing and thinking "What is this I'm feeling? Since when Naruto..." when she saw him facing Zabuza; Naruto and Sakura's interaction during their sojourn in Wave Country (they were way closer than Sakura and Sasuke)...

Then the next saga began, and continued the hints: people wondering or assuming they were one item, Kakashi telling Sakura could have taken the exam for the sake of Sasuke... and Naruto...

Sincerely, I thought Kishimoto couldn't make it MORE obvious.

Then I read throught the Chuunin exams, and I thought SINCE THE BEGINNING than Hinata had a crush on Naruto. However, I had seen that kind of character over and again: she was the shy girl crushed on the main character, who remains unaware of her crush during the most or the entirety of the series (you'll realize that's exactly what has happened here). Usually that kind of pairings never became canon in shonen manga, even if the girl confesses, so I didn't paid it attention.

I NEVER knew NaruHina fans were stating since chapter 98 -or long before- that Naruto/Hinata was canon. Of course, they NEVER imagined the next conversation between both characters would happen nearly two hundred chapters later, and it'd consist of Naruto greeting her and she fainting (again, it was very predictable).

I went on reading the manga. Naruto and Sakura's relationship would go on developing, despite hiatus like the Search of Tsunade, Sakura's relationship with Sasuke was steadily getting worse and worse. Again, I thought it was obvious what was happening. Sakura was going to be rejected for good, and her relationship with Naruto would become stronger and closer.

Now, tell me: did it happen or not?

Sakura's confession didn't feel to me like the Great SasuSaku Canon Moment, but like the end of that relationship: Sakura was crying, begging pitifully and being very selfish... and Sasuke didn't care. And that was the last time where Sakura did something unmistakably stated she crushed on Sasuke.

Naruto leaving Sakura with Sasuke in the hospital, Sakura getting rejected for Sasuke, Naruto reassuring Sakura and she finally realizing what he had always been there for her, Sakura wanting visiting Naruto first, trying cheering him up and promising the next time, they would go together... Those chapters strenghtened Naruto/Sakura's relationship. I saw him like that in the moment, and I don't understand how someone can see it otherwise.

Well, I guess that person can see it otherwise if he/she is biased against NaruSaku. But I didn't see him like that because I was biased for NaruSaku because I WASN'T. I WASN'T a shipper, I wasn't shipping NaruSaku yet. Simply, I thought it was obvious the manga was heading in that direction, given the evolution and development of the relationship. I had been expecting it since the chapter three, and Kishimoto didn't disappoint in that sense.

Hinata? Hinata who? She was a secondary character, but she did never show up. Yes, she crushed on Naruto, but she never talked to him. I never thought it'd become canon. I didn't think MANY fans were convinced of it.

And then I started reading Part 2. Funny enough, I watched the first Shippuden chapters before reading the first manga chapters.

And NaruSaku STILL seemed obvious to me. I saw the classic, telltale signs you see in this kind of mangas. Sakura blushing and he ruining the moment with his big mouth? Naruto stating something perverted, Sakura punishing him and screaming "What can I do about the feelings you have stirred into me, you idiot? Should I eat them? (spanish translation)"?

Again, it seemed completely obvious to me, and I wasn't shipping it yet. I began shipping it soon afterwards.

Therefore, I'm someone who didn't read the manga for the pairings, never got his mind and opinions poluted for fandom and supposedly universal opinions, barely saw the anime... and thinks NaruSaku was the obvious canon pairing because his experience with other mangas, because its development, and because he didn't spend hundred of chapters hoping for a new scene involving his desired pairing, simultaneously denying and disregarding any scene involving an oppossing pairing, (despite there were no scenes involving the former and there were many involving the latter). And he didn't because he read big chunks of sory in one go, and saw NaruHina was in nowhere whereas NaruSaku was everywhere.

Therefore, I reiterate my statement: whoever tells there hasn't been NaruSaku scenes in the manga, is biased and blinded by his/her shipping of for fandom.

Edited by Jenskott, 12 April 2009 - 09:54 AM.

[RyrineaHaruno]

thanks every body for your help we came to a standstill

[catsi563]

A lot of the pairing silliness is based on the same willful blindness that Zutarrians used to justify their pairing. Even with 60+ episodes of katarra Aang pairing and the creators blunt statments that they ALLWAYS intended to pair the two for some reason the Zutarrian fan base took the fact that it took them 40+ episodes for Kataara to show a single tender moment to Zuko ((in the crystal caverns) before he went and blew the possiblility by betraying her and Aang.

it would take another 16+ episodes ((the southern raiders)) before he would earn her forgiveness.

And theys till persist that even with no less then 2 kisses (one confirmed one mostly confirmed) and several lesser but still romantic kisses between them as well as numerous hugs that Kataang is not canon. they still preach that she will eventually "See the light" ((by the way thats an actual quote))

they insist her attitude is mostly motherly/sisterly towards him ((sound familiar?)) and pointedly ignore the fact that Kataara was Motherly towards ALL of the gaang. It was part of her character. yet it was clear from the moment that Aang asked her to go penguin sledding that she would follow him for the length of the series. It was clear the moment their eyes met.

Just as it was clear the moment Naruto henged into sasuke, and mirrored Sakuras dreams with his words. the moment he almost kissed her ((the closest the series has come to a romantic kiss)) that they were going to be together.

they would have their share of bumps and missteps, and they did but in the end I belive theyll come together.

[Jenskott]

thanks every body for your help we came to a standstill

You'r welcome. Glad of being helpful.

By the way, I'm not trying bashing that person or reopening your debate, but I find somewhat irritating he claimed he tried being neutral not long after having gloated that "your pairing has hit rock-bottom". Does it sound like something a pairing-neutral fan would tell?

A lot of the pairing silliness is based on the same willful blindness that Zutarrians used to justify their pairing. Even with 60+ episodes of katarra Aang pairing and the creators blunt statments that they ALLWAYS intended to pair the two for some reason the Zutarrian fan base took the fact that it took them 40+ episodes for Kataara to show a single tender moment to Zuko ((in the crystal caverns) before he went and blew the possiblility by betraying her and Aang.

it would take another 16+ episodes ((the southern raiders)) before he would earn her forgiveness.

And theys till persist that even with no less then 2 kisses (one confirmed one mostly confirmed) and several lesser but still romantic kisses between them as well as numerous hugs that Kataang is not canon. they still preach that she will eventually "See the light" ((by the way thats an actual quote))

they insist her attitude is mostly motherly/sisterly towards him ((sound familiar?)) and pointedly ignore the fact that Kataara was Motherly towards ALL of the gaang. It was part of her character. yet it was clear from the moment that Aang asked her to go penguin sledding that she would follow him for the length of the series. It was clear the moment their eyes met.

Just as it was clear the moment Naruto henged into sasuke, and mirrored Sakuras dreams with his words. the moment he almost kissed her ((the closest the series has come to a romantic kiss)) that they were going to be together.

they would have their share of bumps and missteps, and they did but in the end I belive theyll come together.

That blinded behavior you talk about I have observed it in every fandom I've -shamefully- ever been a part of.

Again, I remember when I read Ranma 1/2: several fans claimed that Ranma and Akane -the two main characters- wouldn't end up together, despite it was obvious they were in love with each other, because the writer wasn't so predictable, Akane didn't deserve Ranma because she was very violent and they hated her, Ranma should end up with Shampoo because she was the prettiest and the strongest fighter and understood Ranma's feelings (which she didn't because she never cared for them)... and then they paired Akane up with the main character's rival. Does that drivel sound familiar?

They didn't care how much scenes hinted, suggested or stated Ranma and Akane were in love with each other. They didn't care many girls had very loudly expressed their feelings for the main character and he still loved Akane. They didn't care Akane was the person Ranma trusted the most. They didn't care how badly Ryoga treated or lied to Akane, or he ended up with a secondary character, introduced late in the story and specifically tailored to fit his character. They didn't like Akane, didn't like the pairing, so they convinced themselves it wouldn't happen because they didn't like it.

And not matter how much years have passed since the end of the manga and the fandom has pretty much died. People STILL argues how the series should have ended pairing-wise.

Again, I've seen this kind of blindness in everywhere: people denying Kenshin loved Kaoru, despite he was practically emotionally dead when he believed she'd been murdered; people denying Lina and Gourry loved at each other, despite Lina was willing sacrificing the world and her own life for protecting his.

By the way, I haven't watched Avatar and I'm not a Kataanger or Zutarian, but I've found Zutarians claiming they getting together at the end of the series doesn't mean they'll keep together. Such a philosophy ignores Avatar is a cartoon, and if two characters are together for the end of the sereis, most probably they'll remain together forever. you can break them up and paired them up with other people at your heart content's in fanfiction, but in canon they'll keep together.

Oh, well.

they insist her attitude is mostly motherly/sisterly towards him ((sound familiar?))

Indeed, it does. Given that the last databook tells Naruto likes Sakura, NH fans claim it means he likes "like a sister/friend".

I don't get where they get that "brother/sister" thing from (I guess an anti-NS fan spouted it, and the rest of the them has been repeating it without pondering if it's a good argument or not), but that claim is ridiculous and sounds desperate. "Suki" DOESN'T mean brotherly/sisterly/friendly love. It means romantic love. Moreover, there's one "suki" going from Karin to Sasuke, and everyone know her feelings aren't brotherly or friendly at all.

[Kyuudaime]

There was some relationship chart that came out recently.

The arrow from Naruto to Sakura said "suki" which to my knowledge translates to "love."

Of course I understand that there's more complications to it, but I think it'd be quite futile to claim that it meant "love" in a sisterly way.

Funny thing was Hinata wasn't on it, now why do you suppose that is? (rhetorical question)

Edited by Kurosaki Ichigo, 13 April 2009 - 03:36 PM.

[Jenskott]

According some NaruHina fans...

Why, for keeping the surprise! What else?

Now, seriously. I think Hinata wasnt on it because she isn't important enough, even if she nearly got killed in that battle. Her confession isn't so important or relevant to the history it merits showing up on a summary.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about Kakashi.

[Derock]

According some NaruHina fans...

Why, for keeping the surprise! What else?

Now, seriously. I think Hinata wasnt on it because she isn't important enough, even if she nearly got killed in that battle. Her confession isn't so important or relevant to the history it merits showing up on a summary.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about Kakashi.

As I said, time and time again... desperate! No matter what it had said, those fans are so desperate to see Hinata near the main character tiers so they can see her paired off with Naruto and have their beliefs come true.

Hell, Shiho is in the chart and she's a support non-ninja! She outranked Hinata!

[catsi563]

Actually Jens if you havent I HIGHLY reccomend Avatar as a series. it isnt a cartoon either. its a very well done animated series. calling it a cartoon is like calling Heroes a series about super people. its a serious mis-statement abiut the series. its actually suprisingly mature, and incredibly well developed and written. Its plot and backstory are consistent and its continuity is solid through out all 3 seasons.

Its about as close as Ill come to calling something American anime given it uses soem fo the anime tropess in it for good comedic effect and even takes a swing at fanfiction and pairing controversy and the series itself ((the episode the ember island players)).

Shihos on the chart and hinatas not? wow, shiho a secodnary character with no development and less screentime then Hinata.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Actually Jens if you haven't I HIGHLY recommend Avatar as a series. it isnt a cartoon either. its a very well done animated series. calling it a cartoon is like calling Heroes a series about super people. its a serious miss-statement about the series. its actually surprisingly mature, and incredibly well developed and written. Its plot and back story are consistent and its continuity is solid through out all 3 seasons.

Its about as close as Ill come to calling something American anime given it uses soem fo the anime tropess in it for good comedic effect and even takes a swing at fan fiction and pairing controversy and the series itself ((the episode the ember island players)).

Shihos on the chart and Hinata is not? wow, shiho a secondary character with no development and less screentime then Hinata.

I watched parts of Avatar I liked it but lost interested in it, thought it did have really good characters. Yeah it covered up to about Chapter 437 so yeah lol and she not on their plus it doesn't even talk about the confession. I really think that confession was Fan service to me. Yeah Avatar is the only thing that should be defined as American Anime it really took some thing from Anime and made it their own and they even made believable side Characters, which not all Japaneses anime do that why I think it lasted as long as it did lol.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 13 April 2009 - 07:31 PM.

[Jenskott]

Actually Jens if you havent I HIGHLY reccomend Avatar as a series. it isnt a cartoon either. its a very well done animated series. calling it a cartoon is like calling Heroes a series about super people. its a serious mis-statement abiut the series. its actually suprisingly mature, and incredibly well developed and written. Its plot and backstory are consistent and its continuity is solid through out all 3 seasons.

Its about as close as Ill come to calling something American anime given it uses soem fo the anime tropess in it for good comedic effect and even takes a swing at fanfiction and pairing controversy and the series itself ((the episode the ember island players)).

I haven't watched it, but I think I could like the show from what little I know from it.

Shihos on the chart and hinatas not? wow, shiho a secodnary character with no development and less screentime then Hinata.

Indeed. And what does it tell you?

Several minutes ago I've seen still other fan claiming Hinata has made more things in the history despite her few screentime than Sakura, who "instead of using her screentime for getting closer to Naruto squanders it in bouts of violence, helplessness and crying", and Naruto went nine-tails exclusively for Hinata, proving how important she is for him.

Nine tails? I counted six. He never went nine-tails. And he didn't draw them out exclusively for Hinata. His senseis and plenty people had been murered, his village razed to the ground, his beliefs and dreams questioned and shattered. He was furious and upset, and the death of a friend in front of him was the last straw.

He drew out four tails exclusively for Sasuke. Surely will you no t claim Hinata is more important to him than Sasuke?

Again, it's simply ridiculous -or blinded- claiming Hinata has done more with her limited screentime than Sakura with hers. Hinata offered Naruto cheating her answers, offered him a balm -which he offered Sakura and HInata also offered Kiba-, cheered Naruto up before one fight, and what few fights she's participated, she's stayed in the background with a frightened-looking expression, or has been utterly destroyed in a matter of seconds and needed being retrieved and healed.

Supposedly she has potential, but I have never seen it. And she wanted changing but I don't see she's changed very much.

On the other hand, Sakura has greatly changed and evolved throughout the entire series. Unlike Hinata, she's overcome her fears and limitations, changed and showed her potential. She's been for the side of Naruto during his highs and downs, has witnessed his victories and his defeats, has shared his joys and his pains. She's gotten closer to him -it's preposterous claiming otherwise-, has been consistently acknowledging him, supporting him and helping him since the formation of the teams, has saved his life several times and her skills have been very useful along the story. She's participated in way more battles than Hinata, she has even won some of them, and she's never needed being bailed out. What Hinata has done in chapter 437 once, Sakura has done it many times for Naruto, Sasuke or both.

I never hated Sakura because she was a fangirl "hated" Naruto because I guessed that it wasn't to be the case for long. I never hated her for being inmature because she was a twelve-years old girl, she's meant to be. Regretfully, people likes sticking to their first impressions, appearances, preconceptions, rushed judgements, and to trivialities.

I thought she was going to be the classic female character gets stuck with the main character but I wouldn't care a lot about. Her evolution, development and maturing through the entire series proved me wrong, and she's become one of my favorite Japanese comic female characters.

I never cared for Hinata. Unlike Sakura, she hasn't give me reasons for being a fan of hers. And her fandom hasn't helped. It hasn't helped AT ALL because they're always overrating her and overstimating her. I can understand if they likes Hinata more than Sakura, but... claiming she's more important than Sakura to the history or Naruto, is ridiculous. Whoever makes that claim is refusing regarding the manga objectively.

Yeah it covered up to about Chapter 437 so yeah lol and she not on their plus it doesn't even talk about the confession. I really think that confession was Fan service to me.

Indeed. But I also think he's tying that loose end.

Anyway, I'm considering stopping reading the manga for a while, waiting several weeks and then reading several chapters on one go, instead of one chapter every week.

[RyrineaHaruno]

I haven't watched it, but I think I could like the show from what little I know from it.

Indeed. And what does it tell you?

Several minutes ago I've seen still other fan claiming Hinata has made more things in the history despite her few screentime than Sakura, who "instead of using her screentime for getting closer to Naruto squanders it in bouts of violence, helplessness and crying", and Naruto went nine-tails exclusively for Hinata, proving how important she is for him.

Nine tails? I counted six. He never went nine-tails. And he didn't draw them out exclusively for Hinata. His senseis and plenty people had been murered, his village razed to the ground, his beliefs and dreams questioned and shattered. He was furious and upset, and the death of a friend in front of him was the last straw.

He drew out four tails exclusively for Sasuke. Surely will you no t claim Hinata is more important to him than Sasuke?

Again, it's simply ridiculous -or blinded- claiming Hinata has done more with her limited screentime than Sakura with hers. Hinata offered Naruto cheating her answers, offered him a balm -which he offered Sakura and HInata also offered Kiba-, cheered Naruto up before one fight, and what few fights she's participated, she's stayed in the background with a frightened-looking expression, or has been utterly destroyed in a matter of seconds and needed being retrieved and healed.

Supposedly she has potential, but I have never seen it. And she wanted changing but I don't see she's changed very much.

On the other hand, Sakura has greatly changed and evolved throughout the entire series. Unlike Hinata, she's overcome her fears and limitations, changed and showed her potential. She's been for the side of Naruto during his highs and downs, has witnessed his victories and his defeats, has shared his joys and his pains. She's gotten closer to him -it's preposterous claiming otherwise-, has been consistently acknowledging him, supporting him and helping him since the formation of the teams, has saved his life several times and her skills have been very useful along the story. She's participated in way more battles than Hinata, she has even won some of them, and she's never needed being bailed out. What Hinata has done in chapter 437 once, Sakura has done it many times for Naruto, Sasuke or both.

I never hated Sakura because she was a fangirl "hated" Naruto because I guessed that it wasn't to be the case for long. I never hated her for being inmature because she was a twelve-years old girl, she's meant to be. Regretfully, people likes sticking to their first impressions, appearances, preconceptions, rushed judgements, and to trivialities.

I thought she was going to be the classic female character gets stuck with the main character but I wouldn't care a lot about. Her evolution, development and maturing through the entire series proved me wrong, and she's become one of my favorite Japanese comic female characters.

I never cared for Hinata. Unlike Sakura, she hasn't give me reasons for being a fan of hers. And her fandom hasn't helped. It hasn't helped AT ALL because they're always overrating her and overstimating her. I can understand if they likes Hinata more than Sakura, but... claiming she's more important than Sakura to the history or Naruto, is ridiculous. Whoever makes that claim is refusing regarding the manga objectively.

You know the fandom also killed Hinata character for me too I hate how they treat Sakura because of how Human she is I mean Hinata is so overrated for me to like. She my 7th favorite Female character and Sakura is my first becuase at least she can kick some ass.

Indeed. But I also think he's tying that loose end.

Anyway, I'm considering stopping reading the manga for a while, waiting several weeks and then reading several chapters on one go, instead of one chapter every week.

Yeah I totally agree with this lol

[Nick Soapdish]

Anyway, I'm considering stopping reading the manga for a while, waiting several weeks and then reading several chapters on one go, instead of one chapter every week.

I've done that several times.

I think that it reads a lot better that way. A lot of the arcs and battles seem to really drag out from week to week. It seems like just about every arc of part two qualified for me once we got about halfway through the Chiyo-Sakura-Sasori battle. I think that part one would've been the same except that I started the manga late so I got to read it all in one chunk.

The current arc (starting at 437) is the first time that I've been reading them as they come out in nearly a hundred chapters.

And I second the nomination to check out Avatar. I still haven't finished it myself, but I think it's great so far.

Edited by Nick Soapdish, 16 April 2009 - 01:46 AM.

[Jenskott]

You know the fandom also killed Hinata character for me too I hate how they treat Sakura because of how Human she is I mean Hinata is so overrated for me to like. She my 7th favorite Female character and Sakura is my first becuase at least she can kick some ass.

Indeed. It's sickening how they treat Sakura only for being human and making mistakes. And learning from them is not enough. They still demand she pays for the sins of treating Naruto like trash (Hah!).

Exactly. I never noticed Hinata because she was a secondary character who barely showed up. Some secondary characters got more exposure than I expected (like Choji). But she didn't it.

And then I met fandom. The ones screamedd she was the most important, the prettiest, the strongest... and I thought "No, she isn't". They screamed she was the one deserved Naruto, the one had always loved him, the one had always fought for him and I thought "What has she done for him? She never shows up! And he thought she was a weird, dark girl!". They would worship her for traits she doesn't own, things she has never done, deeds she has never commited, and I thought "God, do they ever read the manga?".

And then they'd insult other female characters for proving Hinata's worth. For example, they'd tell Hinata is useful and powerful, unlike Sakura, or she's relevant, unlike Ino... And then I got angry. If Hinata is so wonderful, surely their fans shall not need put other characters down for praising her, shall they? And surely they wouldn't need deny those characters their traits to give them to her.

The late arc was incredibly offensive in that aspect. They were always dissing Ten Ten, Ino, Sakura or the rest of Team 8, trying proving Hinata's presence was significant. And it wasn't.

Do you know I have read a "Hinata in Akatsuki" theory? A fan speculated she could join Akatsuki, and then she'd be the most lethal member of that organization. And Naruto would try rescuing her in despair (It's amusing. Before they tried turning her into Sakura. Now they try turning her into Sasuke, too).

You can see how likely that statement/prediction/craziness is according the manga. Her nindo and her Byakugan were mightier than Pain, alright.

Some fans claim she's exploited better her scarce appearances than other characters. Nosense. Temari has only showed up on three arcs, but she has defined female kickass-ness in this manga. Hinata's appearances consist of she seeming weak and helpless, crushing on Naruto or being trounced by her adversaries.

Truly I have never seen a character so overrated for the fandom.

She's an OKAY, respectable character. But the fandom utterly ruins her.

Personally I think I understand because NaruHina fans think Hinata's confession has done impossible NaruSaku. in their minds, Hinata has been always by Naruto's side, loving him, supporting him, helping him and protecting him, whereas Sakura has done nothing but punching him, insulting him, hurting him and crying helplessly. They have convinced themselves Hinata is more important to Naruto than Sakura, his relationship with her is closer than his relationship with Sakura, and "Hinata deserves Naruto because she's always loved him and being nice with him, and Sakura doesn't deserves him because she's a b*tch is constantly insulting him and punching him and loved other boy".

The trouble is that is NOT true. If you read the manga objectively, instead of trying fitting everything what you see in that "deserving" argument, Hinata barely knows Naruto and she hasn't been always nice to him because she barely talks him. On the other side, Sakura is also nice to him, she knows him and she has done plenty more things for him than Hinata, even if you only read Part I.

Those are manga FACTS. Naruto not loving Sakura, Naruto loving Hinata all along, Sakura punching Naruto every chapter, Sakura using Naruto for retrieving Sasuke, Naruto drawing nine tails out for Hinata and only for her, Sasuke loving Sakura but pretending hating her for protecting her from Itachi, are fanon inventions.

Unfortunately, I half-expect Naruto cries when he sees she's alive and right and hughs her. It won't mean he's in love with her, but you know how obnoxious fans will get if it happens. Ugh.

Fandom drives me real crazy. It's better avoid it.

I've done that several times.

I think that it reads a lot better that way. A lot of the arcs and battles seem to really drag out from week to week. It seems like just about every arc of part two qualified for me once we got about halfway through the Chiyo-Sakura-Sasori battle. I think that part one would've been the same except that I started the manga late so I got to read it all in one chunk.

The current arc (starting at 437) is the first time that I've been reading them as they come out in nearly a hundred chapters.

I also think that. Recently I've read volume 39, and I enjoyed Deidara vs Sasuke fight way better than when I waited one week between chapter and chapter. Besides, back then many fans still remembered how easily he had crushed Orochimaru (but they didn't remember the evil Sannin was very sick), and they were annoyed with Sasuke. However, I'd already long forgotten that irritation, so that I read the fight without getting angry about Sasuke winning -and thinking he was winning easily when he, in fact, was NOT- or getting worried about Sakura showing up.

Right now I get nervous whenever I check one chapter, wondering if there'll be NaruHina fanservice -past experience should have taught me better than that-. That's not good, so maybe I should stop reading for a bit.

Unfortunately, it's hard avoid spoilers if you're still checking forums.

And I second the nomination to check out Avatar. I still haven't finished it myself, but I think it's great so far.

Thank you for the recomendations.

[Illmatic]

I remember when I first got into shipping, I liked it, but then i met the garbage spewing monster that is fandom, seriously, I never try to debate because I just cant stand some of the thngs ive seen

[RyrineaHaruno]

I remember when I first got into shipping, I liked it, but then i met the garbage spewing monster that is fandom, seriously, I never try to debate because I just cant stand some of the thngs ive seen

Yeah me too lol I just get tired of it lol sometimes too.

Do you know I have read a "Hinata in Akatsuki" theory? A fan speculated she could join Akatsuki, and then she'd be the most lethal member of that organization. And Naruto would try rescuing her in despair (It's amusing. Before they tried turning her into Sakura. Now they try turning her into Sasuke, too).

You know that is the worst Idea in the world. I just did a *head desk* to that people get the strangest Ideas in their heads. Plus the fact they turned her into Sasuke tells you something. The fact that Hinata is not the strongest that what I like about her character not all females are that strong in their personalty that why I like Hinata. She reminded me of me when I was younger you know, please fans don't give a character traits she/he doesn't have in order for the relationship to work please.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 16 April 2009 - 07:15 PM.

[Kori]

I've done that several times.

I think that it reads a lot better that way. A lot of the arcs and battles seem to really drag out from week to week. It seems like just about every arc of part two qualified for me once we got about halfway through the Chiyo-Sakura-Sasori battle. I think that part one would've been the same except that I started the manga late so I got to read it all in one chunk.

The current arc (starting at 437) is the first time that I've been reading them as they come out in nearly a hundred chapters.

Same here, only differance is i started even later well i just really started reading the manga in depth a little after the start of the current arc..reason being is i couldn't find a reliable site with Naruto until i came across onemanga.com and reason being that i didn't use it earlier...well for some reason my pc wouldn't load the site -/_\-

[Jenskott]

I remember when I first got into shipping, I liked it, but then i met the garbage spewing monster that is fandom, seriously, I never try to debate because I just cant stand some of the thngs ive seen

Yeah me too lol I just get tired of it lol sometimes too.

It does three of us, even though I have never debated in other places. I consider it a waste of time and patience, and the manga usually speaks for me and makes my point way better than I would be able.

Sakura healing Hinata scene. Sakura's reaction is exactly what I expected: sadness and worrying can be interpreted like jealousy and fear of losing Naruto. Still, other fans claim she's thinking Hinata loves Naruto like she loves Sasuke.

You know that is the worst Idea in the world. I just did a *head desk* to that people get the strangest Ideas in their heads. Plus the fact they turned her into Sasuke tells you something. The fact that Hinata is not the strongest that what I like about her character not all females are that strong in their personalty that why I like Hinata. She reminded me of me when I was younger you know, please fans don't give a character traits she/he doesn't have in order for the relationship to work please.

Yes. They're always telling Hinata is better for Naruto than Sakura, and that her and Naruto's relationship is the deepest in the manga. Still, they give her the Sakura's personality in fanarts. Still, they write scenes where she usurps Sakura or Sasuke's role, or she does things she never did but Sakura or Sasuke did (such like reaching Naruto out or giving her the acknowledgement he craved for). What it does tell you?

Regarding giving a characters traits he/she hasn't in order to make the relationship workable... I see it the entire time in SasuSaku fanworks. They always turn Sasuke in a Naruto-like sort of person. Amusing how much SasuSaku shippers claim hating NaruSaku, still they turn Sasuke into Naruto. It's like if they read Chapter 3, but they never realized the Sasuke spoke tenderly to Sakura and tried kissing her was Naruto in disguise.

By the way, we use to bring NaruHina or SasuSaku arguments down, but the kind of NaruSasu fans claim it's canon also can be tiresome.

NO, it's NON-CANON, and it'll ALWAYS be NON-CANON, not matter what you tell, how you twist scenes and speeches or how many Kishimoto interviews you make up. Worship it to your heart's content, but canon Naruto has: a) stated several times Sasuke is his surrogate brother; b) stated he likes Sakura ROMANTICALLY; c) shown he likes women and is atracted to them (he tried spying Sakura in the bathouse, do you remember)?; d) freaked out when a man apparently was coming on him; c) stated the sight of a naked Sasuke was sick.

Therefore, all rational evidence found in the original source points he isn't gay. PERIOD.

Do you like yaoi? Perfect. Keep on enjoying it. I'm not stopping you and I would never try. I like SakuIno, myself. But those are crack pairings. Please, accept it.

Same here, only differance is i started even later well i just really started reading the manga in depth a little after the start of the current arc..reason being is i couldn't find a reliable site with Naruto until i came across onemanga.com and reason being that i didn't use it earlier...well for some reason my pc wouldn't load the site

That's a pity, but I'm glad you could solve your trouble.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Sakura healing Hinata scene. Sakura's reaction is exactly what I expected: sadness and worrying can be interpreted like jealousy and fear of losing Naruto. Still, other fans claim she's thinking Hinata loves Naruto like she loves Sasuke.

Lol I thought that too this one chick thought that the fact that she wasn't jealousy was a sign that Naruto would be paired with Hinata. I did a

Yes. They're always telling Hinata is better for Naruto than Sakura, and that her and Naruto's relationship is the deepest in the manga. Still, they give her the Sakura's personality in fan arts. Still, they write scenes where she usurps Sakura or Sasuke's role, or she does things she never did but Sakura or Sasuke did (such like reaching Naruto out or giving her the acknowledgment he craved for). What it does tell you?

That load of Bs I think because does Hinata even know him that well. I mean that they would make her in to something that he loved :roll. I am sorry but that royal BS.

Regarding giving a characters traits he/she hasn't in order to make the relationship workable... I see it the entire time in SasuSaku fanworks. They always turn Sasuke in a Naruto-like sort of person. Amusing how much SasuSaku shippers claim hating NaruSaku, still they turn Sasuke into Naruto. It's like if they read Chapter 3, but they never realized the Sasuke spoke tenderly to Sakura and tried kissing her was Naruto in disguise.

I have notice that too that they just turn Sasuke in to Naruto and Hinata in to a Sakura personality. I just hate that

By the way, we use to bring NaruHina or SasuSaku arguments down, but the kind of NaruSasu fans claim it's canon also can be tiresome.

NO, it's NON-CANON, and it'll ALWAYS be NON-CANON, not matter what you tell, how you twist scenes and speeches or how many Kishimoto interviews you make up. Worship it to your heart's content, but canon Naruto has: a) stated several times Sasuke is his surrogate brother; b) stated he likes Sakura ROMANTICALLY; c) shown he likes women and is attracted to them (he tried spying Sakura in the bathhouse, do you remember)?; d) freaked out when a man apparently was coming on him; c) stated the sight of a naked Sasuke was sick.

Therefore, all rational evidence found in the original source points he isn't gay. PERIOD.

Do you like yaoi? Perfect. Keep on enjoying it. I'm not stopping you and I would never try. I like SakuIno, myself. But those are crack pairings. Please, accept it.

Yoai/Yuri parings I just hate to see my best friend Sexual orientation being used like that for girls/boys sexual fantasy.

I don't mind if they are gay thought I just don't like straight people turning other straights turned gay for their fantasy paring and believe that it will happen in the Manga that is not Yoai . I hate how they do that really. It funny that the Yoai fandom thinks that really no Shouen Manga has ever had a boy x boy paring never. I have been reading shouen since the early 90's without know it was Anime lol. My cousin got me in to it so yeah.

I don't mind that you like it thought.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 17 April 2009 - 05:39 PM.

[Kori]

I think i just thought of something we can use for our debating!!! ok this a counter arguement to the Naruto caring deeply for Hinata

okay here's my assessment it isn't like a hint thing but more of a logic thing which could easily mess with the NaruHina's arguements if they stumble with it
Naruto DOESN'T feel all that close to Hinata but does to Sakura reason being why i figure that not only with their friendship, but Naruto told Sakura that he was the Jinchuriki without being forced to or anything, he did it on his own free will. This shows on an obvious psychological standpoint that he feels close enough to her to tell her such a HUGE secret and trusts her with it and trust and feeling close to another is the basic building block to caring for someone deeply, even though because he didn't tell hinata doesn't mean that he doens't care for her, it just shows he doesn't care for her on a much deeper level. i mean hell he told Temari! and at the beginning of Shippuden, he didn't know who she was! well maybe he told her cuz he knew about Gaara being one too but anyway that's beside the point. he didn't tell Hinata to my knowledge. i may not be all that caught up on EVERY manga chapter, but i'm pretty sure i would have heard about him telling Hinata. Okay i may be wrong he might've told her, but to the best of my knowledge the only people HE told are Sakura and Temari.

If anyone already thought up this arguement i'm sorry for accidently claiming the original BUT i hope you don't say "oh! i thought of this earlier" when you read mine and just want to be better liked jeez i hate people like that!!!

anyway i hope this is a good point i thought up so maybe we can use it and it'll bring us a step closer to making the NaruHina's more logically thinking!!!
Peace ^/ \^

P.S. i just thought of this out of nowhere (like most great ideas) so it's still a bit contradictory to itself, I'm sure that with some time we can edit the arguement a bit to make it not contradict itself and make it more logical. (i didn't have time to plan it out i just wanted to get the main idea out to you guys first ) so we can work with this together, patch it up and then who know? maybe it'll be one of the more important arguments we use. we can actually press something on them instead of countering theirs!!! we can go on the offensive!!

Edited by Kori, 17 April 2009 - 06:01 PM.