31719 replies to this topic

[Liu bie]

A lot logic we got here.

[AHK]

True. I feel like he got directionless as soon as he kept going back and forth with bad to psycho to neutral to good to neutral/bad to good in an instant. Why not stay bad or neutral?

  
I thought that Sasuke was bad for the manga. I didn't think that he was ever a good character, especially for that reason.

Hagoromo. Worst hype for a character ever. For years, we've been wondering what he looked liked and what kind of individual he was. He turns out to be nothing more than a floating pacifistic geezer and on top of that a horrible father who had to prefer one of his sons of the other one

I don't think Hagoromo was a bad father at all. Indra sought to control people in the same way Sasuke and Madara did. Ashura sought to walk with people, instead of stepping over them. Hagoromo chose his successor based on the quality of their character, that doesn't make him a bad father. Ashura was more fit to lead. Indra, just like Sasuke, was nothing more than a jealous prick who believed that he was better than he really was. Hagoromo did the right thing, and really had no reason to blame himself for the situation. It wasn't his fault, it was Indra's for acting like a child.

Edited by AHK, 09 February 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[Nar123]

How does that even work? What gave Indra and Ashura the rights to pull a reincarnation. They're lords, not gods.

Its simple, Kishimoto needed any kind of BS to make Sasuke relevant again , make him equal to Naruto OP powers 

The problem is that this reincarnation thing f**cked up one of the main plot points he estabilished in part 1

 

 

Neji was right all this time...

Edited by Nar123, 09 February 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[Nostradamus]

Its simple, Kishimoto needed any kind of BS to make Sasuke relevant again , make him equal to Naruto OP powers 

The problem is that this reincarnation thing f**cked up one of the main plot points he estabilished in part 1

 

 

Neji was right all this time...

And that's why he was killed.

[Pix]

I'd say that we were right for the right reasons lol. I just don't believe that Kishi was intentionally misleading us for 15 years. Not just because I'm an NS shipper, but because it doesn't make any sense. Kishi has himself stated that he's not good with romance. If that's true then why make the romance so complicated? Why not just make it straightforward or better yet, just don't have any romance at all. That way there wouldn't have been any ship war (at least not to the same degree) and he could have paired up any characters he wanted without affecting the overall story.

 

Besides, I don't think Kishi is that smart. This is the same author who apparently can't figure out how to balance a large cast and keeps forgetting certain characters. I honestly don't think he has the capacity to pull of something like that.

 

And you know what? Even if I'm wrong and NS really was just a red herring, the joke is still on him because that means he unintentionally made his red herring way more believeable than the actual canon pairings.   

This is true. 

 

Really it all goes down to two options: A. Kishimoto is a sell out or B. Kishimoto is a troll. A lot of people find it easier to believe B rather than A, but to be honest A makes way more sense. Technically we're not talking about just the ending here, we're also analyzing the Kaguya fight, Naruto v. Sasuke, and the romantic sub-plot that was supposedly decided 8 years ago.  

 

To assume that Kishimoto is just a troll like he would like us all to believe seems as if he's getting off easy. The absence of characters, the underwhelming character designs, and the rushed fighting scenes don't really pan out Kishimoto to be just a "troll". Instead it paints him to out to be somebody who's worn out, and loss the passion for his own work.

[Nar123]

This is true. 

 

Really it all goes down to two options: A. Kishimoto is a sell out or B. Kishimoto is a troll. A lot of people find it easier to believe B rather than A, but to be honest A makes way more sense. Technically we're not talking about just the ending here, we're also analyzing the Kaguya fight, Naruto v. Sasuke, and the romantic sub-plot that was supposedly decided 8 years ago.  

 

To assume that Kishimoto is just a troll like he would like us all to believe seems as if he's getting off easy. The absence of characters, the underwhelming character designs, and the rushed fighting scenes don't really pan out Kishimoto to be just a "troll". Instead it paints him to out to be somebody who's worn out, and loss the passion for his own work.

 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Its simple, Kishimoto needed any kind of BS to make Sasuke relevant again , make him equal to Naruto OP powers 
The problem is that this reincarnation thing f**cked up one of the main plot points he estabilished in part 1
 

 
Neji was right all this time...

I still can't believe that...

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I still can't believe that...

 

Me either, Sparda... ~_~ I woulda loved it and found it MORE powerful and poignant if Hiashi died protecting Hinata and Naruto instead, especially since it could have helped Hinata's development. But noooo!

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Me either, Sparda... ~_~ I woulda loved it and found it MORE powerful and poignant if Hiashi died protecting Hinata and Naruto instead, especially since it could have helped Hinata's development. But noooo!

It shows Kishi needed that good assistant.

[trang95]

  
I thought that Sasuke was bad for the manga. I didn't think that he was ever a good character, especially for that reason.
I don't think Hagoromo was a bad father at all. Indra sought to control people in the same way Sasuke and Madara did. Ashura sought to walk with people, instead of stepping over them. Hagoromo chose his successor based on the quality of their character, that doesn't make him a bad father. Ashura was more fit to lead. Indra, just like Sasuke, was nothing more than a jealous prick who believed that he was better than he really was. Hagoromo did the right thing, and really had no reason to blame himself for the situation. It wasn't his fault, it was Indra's for acting like a child.

Ok, I admit that we are unfortunately not given enough info about the relationship b/w the sons and Hagoromo :(

It is definitely not Hagoromo's fault that Indra went the wrong path (although I do wonder how it came to that point; why he let his son adapt those kind of ideologies). But choosing one son over the other, simply added fuel to the future conflicts b/w Ashura and Indra and their descendents. Instead, he should have tried to talk to Indra and fix his way of thinking. Maybe Hagoromo did, but if that is so, he must have been unsuccessful at convincing his his oldest son.

I hate superficial sibling rivalries as the one we got with Ashura and Indra. I'm tired of seeing one brother going berserk instead of working things out with the other one.

Btw, I'm still shaking my head over the fact that he gave Sasuke some powerups after what he told Naruto.

Edited by trang95, 09 February 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Ok, I admit that we are unfortunately not given enough info about the relationship b/w the sons and Hagoromo :(

It is definitely not Hagoromo's fault that Indra went the wrong path (although I do wonder how it came to that point; why he let his son adapt those kind of ideologies). But choosing one son over the other, simply added fuel to the future conflicts b/w Ashura and Indra and their descendents. Instead, he should have tried to talk to Indra and fix his way of thinking. Maybe Hagoromo did, but if that is so, he must have been unsuccessful at convincing his brother.

I hate superficial sibling rivalries as the one we got with Ashura and Indra. I'm tired of seeing one brother going berserk instead of working things out with the other one.

Btw, I'm still shaking my head over the fact that he gave Sasuke some powerups after what he told Naruto.

 

Who's to say Indra would listen? Considering that he also was swayed by Black Zetsu as part of his end goals to help resurrect Kaguya.

[RedFaction]

Its simple, Kishimoto needed any kind of BS to make Sasuke relevant again , make him equal to Naruto OP powers 

The problem is that this reincarnation thing f**cked up one of the main plot points he estabilished in part 1

 

 

Neji was right all this time...

If only Minato was the hero of this story. That BS destiny crap didn't apply to him.

[TerrorKing]

This is true. 

 

Really it all goes down to two options: A. Kishimoto is a sell out or B. Kishimoto is a troll. A lot of people find it easier to believe B rather than A, but to be honest A makes way more sense. Technically we're not talking about just the ending here, we're also analyzing the Kaguya fight, Naruto v. Sasuke, and the romantic sub-plot that was supposedly decided 8 years ago.  

 

To assume that Kishimoto is just a troll like he would like us all to believe seems as if he's getting off easy. The absence of characters, the underwhelming character designs, and the rushed fighting scenes don't really pan out Kishimoto to be just a "troll". Instead it paints him to out to be somebody who's worn out, and loss the passion for his own work.

QFT. 

 

I honestly don't think Kishi has the capacity to troll. His expertise seems to be character design and world building, but when it comes to telling a story he needs a guiding hand. If left to his own devices, everything just falls apart. 

 

Being a mangaka seems to be a very tough job, so it's not surprising that he would eventually run out of steam. I honestly think he should have taken some time off. WSJ would probably oppose it, but in the end I think it would have been a better option. At the very least I don't think the ending would have been quite as rushed.

 

Maybe someday Kishi will be able to take a step back and realize that this is not the right direction for the series. Who knows.  

Edited by TerrorKing, 09 February 2015 - 08:19 PM.

[Nate River]

Its simple, Kishimoto needed any kind of BS to make Sasuke relevant again , make him equal to Naruto OP powers 

The problem is that this reincarnation thing f**cked up one of the main plot points he estabilished in part 1

 

 

Neji was right all this time...

 

Indeed. The whole reincarnation bit makes a complete mockery of this idea. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Indeed. The whole reincarnation bit makes a complete mockery of this idea. 

 

Yeah, no kidding which is why it's a kittening travesty. 

[luffyq1]

Its simple, Kishimoto needed any kind of BS to make Sasuke relevant again , make him equal to Naruto OP powers 

The problem is that this reincarnation thing f**cked up one of the main plot points he estabilished in part 1

 

 

Neji was right all this time...

he was never really an underdog to begin with, his destiny was to become hokage anyway. lol so much kitten stacked on this series.

Edited by luffyq1, 09 February 2015 - 08:33 PM.

[Pix]

QFT. 

 

I honestly don't think Kishi has the capacity to troll. His expertise seems to be character design and world building, but when it comes to telling a story he needs a guiding hand. If left to his own devices, everything just falls apart. 

 

Being a mangaka seems to be a very tough job, so it's not surprising that he would eventually run out of steam. I honestly think he should have taken some time off. WSJ would probably oppose it, but in the end I think it would have been a better option. At the very least I don't think the ending would have been quite as rushed.

 

Maybe someday Kishi will be able to take a step back and realize that this is not the right direction for the series. Who knows.  

It is a very tough job. I can barely deal with making a comic chapter every month (but to be fair I'm lazy) 

 

A lot of people have issues with fans claiming that Kishimoto was a sell out, but just a quick analysis makes the theory very believable. If Kishimoto was so set on ending the story at chapter 700 then what was the purpose of Kaguya. All of that time could have been focused on Naruto and Sasuke battling it out for the title of becoming hokage, and then we could dedicate 3-2 chapters of the team rebuilding the village.  

 

But what was even the point of Naruto v. Sasuke? If Sasuke knew how Madara would end up, what was the point of fighting Naruto anyway? Just by Madara's last words Sasuke should have realized that the only way peace would work is if they joined hands. The entire ending of Naruto portrayed Sasuke as being mentally impaired, or just slow. It really showed no justice to Sasuke fans.   

 

All of this is basic common sense, and Kishimoto seemed to have that back in Part 1. It doesn't just go away. So this leads me to believe that SJ played a huge hand in Naruto's ending, not just with the fighting scences, but with the entire outcome. Never forget that they created the Cell arc of Dragonball Z. Never let that die.  

 

And I honestly do believe that one day Kishimoto will look back on this and realize that mistakes were made. As an artist, I don't think he'll be pleased with what he did. But it's over now, and the damage has been dealt. Our only hope is to one day run into another manga that surpasses the global appeal of Naruto and achieves a good ending.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

It is a very tough job. I can barely deal with making a comic chapter every month (but to be fair I'm lazy) 

 

A lot of people have issues with fans claiming that Kishimoto was a sell out, but just a quick analysis makes the theory very believable. If Kishimoto was so set on ending the story at chapter 700 then what was the purpose of Kaguya. All of that time could have been focused on Naruto and Sasuke battling it out for the title of becoming hokage, and then we could dedicate 3-2 chapters of the team rebuilding the village.  

 

But what was even the point of Naruto v. Sasuke? If Sasuke knew how Madara would end up, what was the point of fighting Naruto anyway? Just by Madara's last words Sasuke should have realized that the only way peace would work is if they joined hands. The entire ending of Naruto portrayed Sasuke as being mentally impaired, or just slow. It really showed no justice to Sasuke fans.   

 

All of this is basic common sense, and Kishimoto seemed to have that back in Part 1. It doesn't just go away. So this leads me to believe that SJ played a huge hand in Naruto's ending, not just with the fighting scences, but with the entire outcome. Never forget that they created the Cell arc of Dragonball Z. Never let that die.  

 

And I honestly do believe that one day Kishimoto will look back on this and realize that mistakes were made. As an artist, I don't think he'll be pleased with what he did. But it's over now, and the damage has been dealt. Our only hope is to one day run into another manga that surpasses the global appeal of Naruto and achieves a good ending.

Basicaly Kishimoto startet to drop sub-plot's half way on war arc. That was seen by many people, as many people ignored it and belived that ending would be their prize.

By the end Sasuke was like "Okay, so I need kill one man, and peace will come to an earth", and then that man kicked his ass what caused Sasuke becoming all good and shiny and backtracking on all his plans. Then Kishimoto even gave him intrest in Sakura that 6 chapters ago Sasuke denied with all the honesty he could.

[RedFaction]

Basicaly Kishimoto startet to drop sub-plot's half way on war arc. That was seen by many people, as many people ignored it and belived that ending would be their prize.

By the end Sasuke was like "Okay, so I need kill one man, and peace will come to an earth", and then that man kicked his ass what caused Sasuke becoming all good and shiny and backtracking on all his plans. Then Kishimoto even gave him intrest in Sakura that 6 chapters ago Sasuke denied with all the honesty he could.

It's crystal clear to me that SasuSaku was something that was not supposed to happen, because as we all know in chapter 693 Sasuke said he had no interest in her at all. I don't think Kishimoto has any devotion to that pairing. Not one bit. They aren't even together in chapter 700, and sure they have a kid but they definitely aren't a couple and that's a fact.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

It's crystal clear to me that SasuSaku was something that was not supposed to happen, because as we all know in chapter 693 Sasuke said he had no interest in her at all. I don't think Kishimoto has any devotion to that pairing. Not one bit. They aren't even together in chapter 700, and sure they have a kid but they definitely aren't a couple and that's a fact.

 

NaruHina is the same way to me, Red, since he had to have Studio Pierrot do the dirty work of explaining them together. X-P And look what a huge mess that is!