
The Great NaruSaku Debate Thread!
#1301
Posted 15 March 2009 - 05:50 PM
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new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#1302
Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:20 AM
I agree though i was slightly perturbed when she was proven to be still alive, but perhaps some choice last words would cause her possible death to be more effective on the audience and have a larger impact on the characters.
what Hinata did was not misplaced or stupid (on Kishi's part), though it was out of the blue to be perhaps a shocker. Could you watch someone you love die, I would personally do anything i could no matter how futile it would be. If i were an author i would try to keep the actions and emotions of my characters as real as possible even if it meant something like this.
#1303
Posted 16 March 2009 - 04:25 AM
In a fairly cliché melodramatic way, yes, her death moment would/will be a bit of a tearjerker. In a really brutal life-cut-short this-is-hardcore shock, having her actually dead in that chapter would be a *huge* impact.
I said he made her look stupid, not that doing that was stupid

#1304
Posted 04 April 2009 - 03:52 AM
Oh and I agree with Gamer-kun!

____________________
It did kind of make her look stupid thought all thought, if she does pass on her will of fire to Sakura I'll be happy trully happy that Hinata character is fullied insuring Naruto x Sakura. Plus all these useless death I mean come on Kishimoto how many are you going to kill.
1.Asama
2.Hinata
3.Jiraiya
4.Shuiza
5.Kakashi
6.Susake probably or Tsunade Umm I hoping for Susake but I bet it will be Tsunade.
Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 04 April 2009 - 06:41 AM.

#1305
Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:15 AM
Sakura has a lot of devolpment of her love on her side of the story, and as a climax a confession.
Naruto will always feel as a second choise and that is not good for a main character, I think.

#1306
Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:57 AM
Sakura has a lot of devolpment of her love on her side of the story, and as a climax a confession.
Naruto will always feel as a second choise and that is not good for a main character, I think.
Oh, come on! How hypocrite is that argument? Most of the ones use it are NaruHina fans!
So Naruto can't be Sakura's second choice but there'snothing wrong with Hinata being Naruto's second choice?
And it isn't good for a main character fullfilling his goals?
I used to read Spider-Man. I'm an ardent Peter/MJ shipper. I can't care less for Peter loving Betty and Gwen before MJ.
Sakura's feelings for Naruto have also had a lot of development throughout the entire manga, going back to her first appearance. And the SasuSaku's confession didn't feel like a climax to me. It felt like the final nail on the coffin.
I guess that "Naruto will be always second choice!" folly/bad excuse comes from that load of badfics where Sakura dates Naruto because Sasuke left. Guess what? They are fanfiction. Using the manga like source, if Sakura ends up with Naruto, she won't feel him like her second choice, but like the right choice.
That nonsense reminds me of the "NaruSaku would destroy the Team Seven dynamic!" silliness. It doesn't make sense and it isn't a reason for hating one pairing.
And personally, I don't care for the Team Seven's balance, which never existed at all for start with, and Sasuke would shattered at any rate when he left. Their antics and interaction were funny up to the Forest of Death, but they got boring quickly. Frankly, I find more interesting and more balanced Team Seven without Sasuke.
Do you want to take over the world, huh? Well, you'll have to go through us first!
#1307
Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:30 PM
So Naruto can't be Sakura's second choice but there'snothing wrong with Hinata being Naruto's second choice?
And it isn't good for a main character fullfilling his goals?
I used to read Spider-Man. I'm an ardent Peter/MJ shipper. I can't care less for Peter loving Betty and Gwen before MJ.
Sakura's feelings for Naruto have also had a lot of development throughout the entire manga, going back to her first appearance. And the SasuSaku's confession didn't feel like a climax to me. It felt like the final nail on the coffin.
I guess that "Naruto will be always second choice!" folly/bad excuse comes from that load of badfics where Sakura dates Naruto because Sasuke left. Guess what? They are fanfiction. Using the manga like source, if Sakura ends up with Naruto, she won't feel him like her second choice, but like the right choice.
That nonsense reminds me of the "NaruSaku would destroy the Team Seven dynamic!" silliness. It doesn't make sense and it isn't a reason for hating one pairing.
And personally, I don't care for the Team Seven's balance, which never existed at all for start with, and Sasuke would shattered at any rate when he left. Their antics and interaction were funny up to the Forest of Death, but they got boring quickly. Frankly, I find more interesting and more balanced Team Seven without Sasuke.
I thought the whole team is better with out Sasuke really. I love Sai because at least he can interact with them better then Sasuke.
Sakura has a lot of development of her love on her side of the story, and as a climax a confession.
Naruto will always feel as a second choice and that is not good for a main character, I think.
I agree with Jenskott that is so hypocritical in so many ways it like saying a girl in real life can't choose another man after that man wronged her.
Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 08 April 2009 - 12:34 PM.

#1308
Posted 08 April 2009 - 01:46 PM
I agree. When Team Seven was born, first Sasuke's reaction was telling Naruto only would bring troubles and thinking his teammates were nothing aburden would get in his way.
When all was said and done, he was the bringer of troubles and the burden got in the way of his partners.
That argument is very hypocritical, but it uses to evolve in something way, WAY worse: the assumption of Sakura is a kind of w***e for moving on and falling in love with another boy since her first love rejected her.
That's so UNBELIEVABLINGLY, APPALINGLY sexist and retarded it booggles my mind.
Unsurprisingly, nobody ever implies Naruto would be a manw***e for getting over Sakura and and moving on Hinata.
Edited by Jenskott, 08 April 2009 - 01:49 PM.
Do you want to take over the world, huh? Well, you'll have to go through us first!
#1309
Posted 08 April 2009 - 01:52 PM
When all was said and done, he was the bringer of troubles and the burden got in the way of his partners.
That argument is very hypocritical, but it uses to evolve in something way, WAY worse: the assumption of Sakura is a kind of w***e for moving on and falling in love with another boy since her first love rejected her.
That's so UNBELIEVABLINGLY, APPALINGLY sexist and retarded it booggles my mind.
Unsurprisingly, nobody ever implies Naruto would be a manw***e for getting over Sakura and and moving on Hinata.
ROLF!
That's soo true dude!
That's awesome debate material there!
#1310
Posted 08 April 2009 - 02:53 PM
I don't think I'm using a brilliantly crafted and complex logic twist here. It's very simple: Why would Sakura be a b***h if she moved on? And why wouldn't Naruto be one?
Not surprisingly, the people who thinks she's a wanton slut for moving on, claims that she jumped on Naruto bones right after Sasuke's departure. Obviously, that NEVER happened. But then agian, those people also claim she's never done anything for Naruto but punching him each chapter.
I have a bunch of issues with the third databook, but it confirmed one of my personal beliefs: Sakura gradually grew feelings for Naruto during their missions together. Through the constant INTERACTION (something NaruHina lacks from), she met the real Naruto, and she realized he was a good boy and he was the one always understood her and supported her. She's just realized those feelings, but she isn't sure what she feels for him.
Therefore, NOT, she is NOT replacing Sasuke with Naruto. She GRADUALLY but STEADILY fell in love with Naruto for who he was, and that process began long ago the SasuSaku goodbye's scene. Otherwise, she'd have flirted with him LONG AGO of the chapter 355, which isn't the case.
Do you want to take over the world, huh? Well, you'll have to go through us first!
#1311
Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:45 PM
I don't think I'm using a brilliantly crafted and complex logic twist here. It's very simple: Why would Sakura be a b***h if she moved on? And why wouldn't Naruto be one?
Yes you are don't worry about.
I really hate it when people say she s a slut really. IT bother me they are so annoying and every time they pull that card I get really pissed I really. I am a female by the way that why I get pissed.
Yeah she is not replacing him I would have been pissed that Kishimoto all of a sudden did too that to her character. I like the relationship that it building on their friendship. I think Kishimoto knew what make a good relationship last since he is married and has three kids. I feel real sorry for the wife thought since he is a twin I bet she get them confused sometime when she mad or something lol.
Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 08 April 2009 - 10:45 PM.

#1312
Posted 09 April 2009 - 02:20 AM
I have know idea what to say about this please help really.

#1313
Posted 09 April 2009 - 03:20 AM
the entire issue lies within chapter 3 on the bench scene.
here in this scene we see the beginnings of NarutoSakuras development. and we see the evolution of SasuSaku from crush of admiration to onesided love.
in the scene to recap naruto has been rejected by sakura after asking her to lunch to get to know her better. he ambushes sasuke (the dead last defeats the rookie of the year in single combat) and henges into sasuke (( a henge that is nearly flawless considering his abysmal performace in chapter 1))
using this disguise he seeks out sakura and confronts her. Sakura at this moment is day dreaming of a fantasy sasuke that says " sakura you have such a beautiful forehead it makes me want to kiss it."
then as she looks up there is ""Sasuke"" standing there. Naruto says exactly what sakura is dreaming about before blowing it off as something naruto would say.
then he asks her about naruto (himself) she tells him that naruto is annoying and doesnt understand her, that he allways interferes with her love life and likes to see her fail. that naruto doesnt understand her at all. then she says that shes desparate anbd only wants to be acknowledged by sasuke.
it is at this moment that naruto understands where sakura is coming from. and it is here that at bare minimum Narutos cursh becomes love or at least is no longer a superficial crush based on her looks.
she wants to be acknowledged by a special person. she has the courage like him to work on that goal and dream like him.
this is the moment that also changes sakura. for her she at this time has a superfical crush on sasuke. but in this moment ""Sasuke"" makes her fantasy come true. he acknowledges her dream and acknowledges her. this changes sakuras crush to love. she falls in love with sasuke at this moment ((still naruto in disguise)) and thus the ground work is laid for future tradgedy.
the notion that both sakura and naruto have selfish superficial crushes is based on the fact that people consisenty forget or minimalize the bench scene.
in that scene two people come to a greater understanding of their feelings then ever before.
a lot of fallout is still to come from this scene.
what will sakura do when she discovers that Naruto was the one who said those things to her on that bench?
what will become of her feelings when this truth is revealed.
she has allready come to the conclusion ((via flashback to the bench scene)) that naruto trully did understand her and she was the one who didnt understand him.
but whenthe truth is revealed she will discover that the one she didnt understand was really the one who all along knew exactly how she felt.
Also Naruto himself will have to confront this moment as well. he will have to tell the truth to sakura and explain his actions. this alone will be a huge moment.
as to hinatas so called true love. Lee admires gai sensei and respects him is that true love? Haku admired and respected Zabuza was that true love.
now on one hand yes I will agree that Sakura does feel guilt for making naruto make that promise. but that is part of her growth. She felt guilty for making him go alone. for not seeing that he did always understand her. that he was the trully strong one of their team. that he was the oen who always did care for her trully.
So yes Sakura does feel guilty and she has every right too. but that doesnt change the fact that she used that guilt to improve herself beyond the expectations of everyone including naruto himself.
Naruto admired and respected Sasuke was that true love ((Yaoi fangirls your vote doesnt count))
And now Sakura is in canon shown to respect and admire Naruto. so by the logic of the above hinata argument Sakura has true love for naruto.
as to the filler moments well lets put it this way. even if we take the filler moments into account. they cannot be true naruhina moments.
in fact the one arc that can be shown ((the bug arc)) is actually more of a shinohina arc due to his supporting her unconditionally.
even the current filler arc hasnt shown a hint of naruto hinata. it has shown his conscern yes. but it is a conscern that he would feel for anyone in such a conditon and situation.
and note that even in the current arc. it is sakura to whom he turns in the end for his boost of courage.
the arguments above only enforce naruto sakura rather then weaken it. hinata has had no development until the current chapters and this devleopment alone does not make anything set in stone.
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#1314
Posted 09 April 2009 - 04:39 AM
As Naruto himself said, Sakura is "a girl I kind of like". Are you trying to tell everyone that it means he loves her? Last I saw, he had essentially given up his crush when he saw just how much she was attached to Sasuke.
And another thing, if Hinata doesn't have faith in Naruto as you're claiming, then how do you explain how Hinata saw potential in Naruto and what kind of person he really was LONG before anyone else?
Some one just sent me this for a rebulted can you help me counter them.
Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 09 April 2009 - 04:39 AM.

#1315
Posted 09 April 2009 - 04:46 AM
As Naruto himself said, Sakura is "a girl I kind of like". Are you trying to tell everyone that it means he loves her? Last I saw, he had essentially given up his crush when he saw just how much she was attached to Sasuke.
And another thing, if Hinata doesn't have faith in Naruto as you're claiming, then how do you explain how Hinata saw potential in Naruto and what kind of person he really was LONG before anyone else?
Naruto loves Sakura, and would be willing to sacrifice his own happiness for her. That's what makes their bond so human.
I personally think Sakura saw potential in Naruto earlier than Hinata did. During/after the Wave mission, she started seeing it, after all.
#1316
Posted 09 April 2009 - 05:12 AM
the sacrafice he was willing to make at that moment was epic. a man willing to break his own heart for the girl he was in love with so she could be with the man she likes.
he does this twice. once in the hospital, and once during the Promise of a lifetime.
it is also shown in part 2 that those feelings are still there. He simply is more mature about expressing them.
as to hinata thats an incorrect statment, sure Hinata saw narutos courage long before the rest of his classmates. but she was not the first to do so. the Sandaime, Iruka and even teuchi the ramen cook all saw his potential long before hinata did. and thats canon.
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#1317
Posted 09 April 2009 - 05:40 AM
"You really love him, huh?"
...that told me that he had effectively moved on from his crush, which leaves room for him to like someone else.
And Sakura had not seen any potential from Naruto at all during the Wave arc. In fact, during the tree climbing exercise, she believed Naruto would give up easily after failing the first time.
He threw this in just for show lol I just think he mad that he out witted,

#1318
Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:42 AM
That person is getting desperate, isn't he/she/?
I just LOVE that "the feelings of Sakura and Hinata are true, eternal love, but the feelings of Naruto and Sasuke are shallow and easily changeable" line.
By the way, in the Spanish official translation, Naruto tells he really likes Sakura, not that he sort of does it.
Anyway, he resorted to a Henge for trying stealing her a kiss. He defended, protected and encouraged Sakura in every turn. He always cared for and worried about her. During the Gaara's fight, he thought: "I'll protect Sakura-chan at all costs!". Not the entire village. Not Sasuke, even if he was in the battleground. I don't doubt he also thought about them, but his priority was protecting Sakura. He was willing sacrificing his own happiness, his own feelings for hers.
SasuSaku is selfish. Sakura wanted being with Sasuke, whether he wanted or not. NaruSaku is selfless. Every one of them is willing giving up something and improving for the other.
And in the second part he STILL asks her dates, tries spying her when she was naked, stopped using the Fox's chakra for her (unfortunately, Hinata has ruined all his efforts) and blushed when she tried feeding him.
By the way, do you remember how angry he got when Sai interrupted them? I'd tell he takes it VERY seriously.
I'd heard in somewhere the "Sai told feeding at each other is what a friend makes. Exactly. One friend." excuse. I'm sorry, but that's just silly. Firstly, he got angry when Sai fed him, thought the replacement stinked, and later yelled him he should notice the situation. If it was something a friend makes, then why should he care which of them feeds him?
Oh, and in Japan, feeding at each other is a very intimate act. It isn't something only a friend can make.
Please, tell me this person wasn't one of NaruHina fans got angry when someone denied Hinata's love for Naruto or thought it was a simple crush.
I'm merely stating FACTS, and drawing conclusions from them.
Selective blindness is a beautiful thing. When I read Naruto at the beginning, I never worried about pairings. But I thought it was obvious Naruto loved Sakura, Sakura was slowly growing feelings for Naruto, and Hinata had a crush on Naruto.
However, shippers of both sides ignore obvious signs if/when they get in the way of their perfect conclusion/happy end.
...that told me that he had effectively moved on from his crush, which leaves room for him to like someone else.
Based on what? Your wishful thinking? NOTHING on that scene tells me he has effectively moved, specially when I see his face is pained, especially when he shows in later scenes he's still interested in her. It tells me he's willing accepting Sakura's feelings if it makes her happy. It doesn't tell he has moved on at all.
I'm tired of people twisting scenes around like a pretzel until they tell what they want they tell. I still remember someone claiming that was a NaruSaSu moment proved Naruto's love for Sasuke, for God's sake...
Please, read again the bell test, especially the part where Sakura is amazed at the number and tangibility of clones Naruto has created. Read the first clash with Zabuza, where she blushes and ponders: "What is this I'm feeling? Since when Naruto...?". Read the part where she -blushing- tells he's improved.
And read again the tree-climbing exercise. She didn't think that when Naruto failed the first time. After Naruto falling many times, she thought he would throw the towel and start grumbling. And he just did that. What she wasn't expecting was he asked her for tips.
I don't remember Hinata saw some potential in Naruto, but she thought his unwillingness to give up and his efforts for earning respect were admirable. But I don't want using that argument because: a) it's been a while since I read those scenes and I skimmed over chapter 437, so I can be wrong; and b) I consider "your side does the same thing" arguments don't even try refuting the oppossing assertion are faulty.
Anyway, Sakura trusts Naruto more Hinata ever did, and that's a fact. Kiba's fight? Sakura knew he wouldn't fall down so easily whereas Hinata shivered each time Naruto got hit -and he's a shinobi, for God's sake!-; Neji's fight? Sakura was cheering for Naruto's victory and smiling when everybody started praising im whereas Hinata had fainted; the hospital scene? Sakura visited him and cheered him up whereas hinata fainted when she saw him bandaged, and he didn't even find out she'd visited him; Tobi's fight? She got frightened when Naruto got kicked and turned her head to the enemy, whereas Sakura told Naruto wouldn't be taken down so easily.
By the way, if you want good anti-NaruHina arguments don't bash Hinata, you can read this essay: Why I Dislike NaruHina by Mizura. She's a Hinata's fan, so she's fully respectful with the character. It's a tad old now, but her arguments still are
valid.
Do you want to take over the world, huh? Well, you'll have to go through us first!
#1319
Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:40 AM
Which begs this question.
How is it that a 12 year old Sakura's crush and a 12 year old Hinata's crush is ONLY a crush, yet a 12 year old Naruto's crush wasn't?
So do you mean to tell me that Sakura's and Hinata's confessions to Sasuke and Naruto (respectively) won't mean a thing as the story goes on?
And why should Sakura and Naruto go for each other, when...
1. Naruto knows how Sakura feels about Sasuke?
2. Sakura NOW knows how Hinata feels about Naruto?
It'd reflect poorly on both Naruto and Sakura
All I'm trying to say is that given recent events, NaruSaku's chances have essentially hit rock bottom now, and no pitiful arguments on that side is going to change anything.
Seriously. even if Naruto actively pursued Sakura, she would shoot him down every time. She wasn't interested in him then, and she isn't interested in him now.
This is not me this is a debate I am having on another website but he/she seems too arrogated to understand my ship. I need help refuting his arguments because I am not that good with debating, even thought he replied to a comment I made years ago on YouTube lol.
Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 10 April 2009 - 12:49 AM.

#1320
Posted 09 April 2009 - 11:38 PM
Which begs this question.
How is it that a 12 year old Sakura's crush and a 12 year old Hinata's crush is ONLY a crush, yet a 12 year old Naruto's crush wasn't?
Clearly, you miss ALOT of points. He did have a crush on Sakura. And still does in a mature way. Stated WAY back in the beginning of Chapter 3 when Sakura first appeared. We seen a panel of Naruto looking "lovey-dovey" (not with the hearts in his eyes) at her. And in those boxes, he stated she was a "total babe" (Viz English Translation). So clearly, the reader can understand that he DOES have a crush on her. Go back and read both online and English manga (find it at a bookstore/library).
And? What's your point? It's called, "drama." Both and all pairings can't be hooked up right at the bat. There has to be developments and conflicts so it can provide interests to the reader. Sure the confessions can mean something but the points are these:
Sakura's confession ---> based on desperation for not letting her crush leave and go seeking revenge. From Sasuke: knocked her out by saying "Thank you" and leaves.
Hinata's confession ---> trying to save her crush by being brave and tries to attack one crazy, super-power villian which lead her to near death. From Naruto: turned into Kyuubi mode, 6-8 tails, which he had said he don't want to use that power again when trying to protect his friends/family
Both of those boys didn't say to them, respectfully, "Oh I love you too. Let's go on our merry way." Hardly there was no immediate love reaction from the two.
And I like to point out that part of Sakura finding out Hinata's confession, it's a mistranslation.
All I'm trying to say is that given recent events, NaruSaku's chances have essentially hit rock bottom now, and no pitiful arguments on that side is going to change anything.
Trying the bashing route, eh?

Seriously. even if Naruto actively pursued Sakura, she would shoot him down every time. She wasn't interested in him then, and she isn't interested in him now.
Always trying to assume Sakura is such a b*tch towards Naruto but goes lovey-dovey towards Sasuke when we know he always turned her down?
You missed more points:
For the NaruSaku dates -
1) back at Part 1, she said she accepted his "date" right after his fight with Sasuke at the hospital rooftop.
2) she agreed if he pays for the date back at the beginning of Part 2.
3) Before meeting Kakashi at the hospital before Hidan and Kakuzu appeared, she suggested that he should focus on reading books for training the mind and body
4) When he asked again, she said they have an important meeting with Tsunade, meaning in her eyes, official priorities comes first.
Mentioned in the 3rd Databook: she's currently searching the answers of her feelings for Naruto. Development is still on work here on their relationship.
What's Happening with the Naruto series as of now!
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