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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#13021 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 05:31 PM

No. Delusional is EXACTLY what they are.

 

When you try to pass of 631 as a joke just because you can't accept what was said at Face value, then you certaintly qualify. 

 

Well, I think it's important to remember that for NH, 615 was a huge moment for their pairing. Just like we don't like to see moments between Naruto and Sakura undermined or written off, neither do they, and in the end it's all a matter of perspective, theirs points to NaruHina and ours to NaruSaku and only a clear cut conclusion will prove which is 'right'. If people choose to deny or twist the truth from there, that's their problem, but name calling is never the way to go about proving your point. Are there NH and SS fans who let the love for their pairing get in the way of seeing the story for what it really is and looking at the evidence objectively? Certainly. But I'm sure the are NS fans who do the same - no side is really superior to the other.



#13022 咲耶姫

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 05:44 PM

I think we can say that it's as delusional for NH fans to deny NS moment in 631 as it is for NS fans to deny Nh moment in 615.

I think that what tacticalFox meant was that the denial thing was delusional, not the fandom itself. Well I hope.


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#13023 FireFox

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:00 PM

Sorry, I know the topic's kind of changed but I had a bunch of thoughts on the Tsunade/Dan/Jiraiya thing and the NaruSaku parallels that I wanted to share with you guys. :sweat: I'd like to see what you think of it.

 

So NaruSaku has three parallels known so far in the manga. JiraTsu, MinaKushi, and ObiRin. Anyway, I started to notice a theme in these couples that not only reinforce the parallel argument, but they also fit extremely well with the surpassing the previous and NaruSaku's future. We already know this of course, but I feel like Kishi was trying to make a pattern somewhere in here other than similarities. It might be I'm just reading too much into it, but it seems to me that Kishimoto's level of obstacles for the NaruSaku parallels had varying degrees of severity and difficulty to it that intensely foreshadow Naruto and Sakura's eventual success.

 

I get the sense that Kishimoto's purpose of these parallels was always meant to blatantly explain that the newest generation will surpass the previous ones and that it was literally always meant to foreshadow NaruSaku was going to be endgame. That was why he had JiraTsu, MinaKushi, and ObiRin have similar backgrounds (more so OR & JT). I don't think he's just trying to show this in similarities, I think he was going in further by gradually lessening the amount of obstacles in each other parallel's relationship. Starting from JiraTsu to MinaKushi.

 

IMO, JiraTsu was by far one with the most difficulty. It had so many issues in Tsunade's core character that was not nearly as simple as loving another man and she also obviously regarded Jiraiya in distain for much longer out of the parallels. It took many, many years for Tsunade to IMO fully understand Jiraiya enough to love him. It was no question she did or at the very least had feelings for him, but I don't believe her feelings for him surpassed whatever she felt for Dan. In my honest opinion, that was the actually the point. It was supposed to be so damaged and impossible to happen to that extent. The first NaruSaku parallel was something in my opinion was one Kishi consciously chose to make that ridiculously hard to overcome to connect itself to Naruto's journey and his relationship with Sakura.

 

ObiRin was different and had much more simplified aspects to it likened to that of Early Part I T7: Boy with love for the female teammate that loved the cool one. It was less challenging than JiraTsu since Rin had always been kind to him from the start and had no trouble understanding him. Though, of course, we can never say for certain if she would've returned Obito's feelings if she hadn't died but the point of this is it was still portrayed as less complicated than the first NS parallel. It still didn't happen and again it wasn't supposed to, but the lack of problems on this in comparison to JT is definitely foreshadowing something for NS.

 

Lastly, we have the newest-introduced parallel MinaKushi. It turned out much, much differently than the other ones. And, looking at it from a simplified stance, it had an even more obvious lack of complications to it's way to canon than both of the other two for sure. All it had was that Kushina disliked Minato at first while Minato always had feelings for her, then led her to fall in love with him when he saved her, getting married, and having a child. Though the one thing they didn't surpass in ... was that had both died before they could truly live a life together as parents and family. Hint, hint. :yes:

 

I might be entirely wrong and feel free to disagree, but the pattern seems to indicate that Kishi might've broke down the NaruSaku parallels from being as hard as possible to not even hard, though still lacking the final touch. It was meant to foreshadow that NS was given a mixture of almost all of these challenging obstacles deflecting their road to canon, but in the end it would be worth it because they'd surpass the previously failed relationship parallels. We know that part, but I'd like to think that my theory that Kishimoto simplifying the parallels was another means to imply NaruSaku, it was just a lot more subtle. :happy:

 

I'd appreciate feedback on this, I very much want to know if any of you think my argument has validation. I'd be glad to hear your agreements or disagreements. :smile:

What about DanTsuna ? I always thought NS also parallel them , just like Naruto Dan also had the dream to be a Hokage so he can protect the village and the people he love , wasn't his care,love for the village and willingless to protect/save everyone is what drove Tsuna to him . Not to mention Sakura's facing now with the same thing Tsuna did and that's Naruto/Dan on their deathbed , Tsuna fail in saving Dan will Sakura fail to when one of the reason she became a medic is so she can support/help Naruto and even if this's not the case in the next chapter it can always come back during the Naruto vs Sasuke battle like the OVA 2011. Anyway i consider Jira&Dan as the two halfs of Naruto , oh and that was a nice sum up you did there i agree with every thing.

 

 

I wish i would know, why they are taught that he's the fourth, the purpose of the hokage mountain and their faces being drawn and even they are taught on the school about the hokages when even one of them appear before them they still dont know who they are, i'm srsly surprised on Sakura didnt knew who he was even with her reading books, being on the hokage office where there are pictures about them, then a guy with a cloak written "super fourth hokage" on the back she still doesnt know who this guy is.

 

Tell me about it even Naruto knew that he was the fourth hokage when he saw him for the first time in the Pain arc , i really don't know what was Kishi thinking when he came up with this ?

 

 

 

 

Since we know Sakura already understood the concept of Edo Tensei -- because she was with Kakashi and Sai when they encountered Zabuza and Haku and the Seven Swordsmen at the beginning of the fighting -- she's too smart to have forgotten the concept or misunderstood that Minato had been revived by Edo Tensei when she saw him.

 

Maybe Sakura said, "Who is he?" not because she didn't recognize Minato, but because -- just like us -- up until that point she had believed Minato could not be resurrected due to the manner of his death.  So when he appeared she didn't think it could actually be him, Edo Tensei or otherwise.

 

I mean, it wasn't until Kishimoto did the goofy asspull that allowed Orochimaru to revive Minato that WE knew it was possible for Minato to come back.  So it's conceivable that Naruto's smart girl would have been confused by his return.

  

It's a stretch, but the only other explanation is that Kishimoto totally spaced about six big details in his story while at the same time making Sakura look like a vapid dingaling.  However, I am forced to admit it's entirely possible.   :wallbash:

 

 

 

But then how did Sakura find out that the Fourth used the Shikifujin when not even Orochimaru knew about it and he only found out about it when the Sandaime used it against him and explain everything to him about the seal and his original user , Sandaime was the only one who knew about how did the fourth die because he was present when that happen plus everything about MinaKushi's death was a top notch secret , there is absolutely no way Sakura could have ever found out about all of this.    


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 11 January 2014 - 06:05 PM.

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#13024 sushi.

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:30 PM

I don't think NS parallels TsunaxDan, even if Naruto parallels Dan, and Sakura parallels Tsunade. Their stories are very different, but Sakura better watch out now so Naruto doesn't end up like Dan. :P


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#13025 KnS

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:33 PM

But then how did Sakura find out that the Fourth used the Shikifujin when not even Orochimaru knew about it and he only found out about it when the Sandaime used it against him and explain everything to him about the seal and his original user , Sandaime was the only one who knew about how did the fourth die because he was present when that happen plus everything about MinaKushi's death was a top notch secret , there is absolutely no way Sakura could have ever found out about all of this.    

 

Good point. Well, then we're just stuck with Kishimoto spacing the details of his own story, and in the process making Sakura look rather daft.



#13026 T XD

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

Maybe the cause she didn't knew Minato in 631 is that she doesn't know how he looks like. She knows some stuff about the Fourth, but she doesn't know his look... Even though his face is carved on the Hokage mountain.

 

Seems that Kishi made a slip here and forgot...


Edited by T XD, 11 January 2014 - 07:16 PM.


#13027 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:19 PM

I seriously wonder what's going to happen in the next chapter. I'm thinking all the possibilities and try to counter myself, such as how to revive Naruto if he actually does die. Some are logical and some are "logical", though I would bet no one wants those, especially those craving for others to arrive that is not start with an H but I digress. The point is the more I think about it, the more it can be negated altogether. So I'm doing you a favor. Sometimes I wish Kuruma didn't say anything. Then again, it could be anything.

#13028 sushi.

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:19 PM

Or maybe his cape was still in the air when she saw him, so she didn't see the caption. Capes like that fall down in slow motion.

I seriously wonder what's going to happen in the next chapter. I'm thinking all the possibilities and try to counter myself, such as how to revive Naruto if he actually does die. Some are logical and some are "logical", though I would bet no one wants those, especially those craving for others to arrive that is not start with an H but I digress. The point is the more I think about it, the more it can be negated altogether. So I'm doing you a favor. Sometimes I wish Kuruma didn't say anything. Then again, it could be anything.

Me too, I just hope it has the right focus and phasing. Sometimes I feel like the manga is in slow motion. :glare: Like, Kishi can draw a hand moving, or footsteps, or fodder ninja cheering on Naruto, or just the sky. But I think Sakura will do something in at least the next three chapters. I am in need for a Sakura moment.


Edited by sushi., 11 January 2014 - 07:22 PM.

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#13029 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:25 PM

Or maybe his cape was still in the air when she saw him, so she didn't see the caption. Capes like that fall down in slow motion.
Me too, I just hope it has the right focus and phasing. Sometimes I feel like the manga is in slow motion. :glare: Like, Kishi can draw a hand moving, or footsteps, or fodder ninja cheering on Naruto, or just the sky. But I think Sakura will do something in at least the next three chapters. I am in need for a Sakura moment.

I do believe she will come very soon. The point of these chapters was to have Bijuus teaming up for the first time, Gaara's and Shukaku's closure, and well this. Mainly, it was all about Bijuus and I accept that. But now, they're gone and the alliance will be forced to take action.

#13030 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:27 PM

Tell me about it even Naruto knew that he was the fourth hokage when he saw him for the first time in the Pain arc , i really don't know what was Kishi thinking when he came up with this ?

I think we can all agree that it should be "Naruto's father is the fourth?" or something like that because the "who the kitten he is" was stupid for someome like her who work at the hokage's office and even with Naruto saying "Dad!".
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#13031 TacticalFox88

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:36 PM

I think we can all agree that it should be "Naruto's father is the fourth?" or something like that because the "who the kitten he is" was stupid for someome like her who work at the hokage's office and even with Naruto saying "Dad!".

It's still not as bad as those ANBU agents not knowing who Hashirama and Tobirama were back in Part 1.

 

I facepalmed six years ago and I'll facepalm now. 



#13032 sindy

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:08 PM

can anyone tell me what this is about?!

 

https://twitter.com/...7616768/photo/1


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#13033 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:24 PM

It's still not as bad as those ANBU agents not knowing who Hashirama and Tobirama were back in Part 1.
 
I facepalmed six years ago and I'll facepalm now.

Worse is that they are known as an ELITE but always get defeated easily, remember how Kabuto owned everyone of them.
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#13034 T XD

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:19 PM

can anyone tell me what this is about?!

 

https://twitter.com/...7616768/photo/1

It's one of the two books that a critique writer is doing, or already done by now, about the manga. It includes how the characters are progressing with the plot and stuff like that. I think it includes some things about NS when he talks about Naruto and Sakura in each of their own page from what I remember.


Edited by T XD, 11 January 2014 - 09:22 PM.


#13035 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:22 PM

can anyone tell me what this is about?!
 
https://twitter.com/...7616768/photo/1

It's about the bonds in different sections such as love, companion, etc. This is where I began to question NH as a whole.

#13036 T XD

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:26 PM

It's about the bonds in different sections such as love, companion, etc. This is where I began to question NH as a whole.

That's a better answer. Now I remember that it's mainly about the bonds.



#13037 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:32 PM

That's a better answer. Now I remember that it's mainly about the bonds.

Yeah, or as I like to call it, the downfall of my NH illusion.

#13038 sindy

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:45 PM

^ ah thanks guys.


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#13039 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:58 PM

^ ah thanks guys.

Anytime. :)

#13040 sushi.

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:04 PM

It's about the bonds in different sections such as love, companion, etc. This is where I began to question NH as a whole.

NH wasn't even mentioned. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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