19964 replies to this topic

[Canadian_DJ]

If I had to put it, I wouldn't precisely say NS=NH in the development department.

Think of it as a basketball game. NH is currently leading in the 3rd quarter when during the 1st-2nd they were seriously lagging behind. But even then it's not game over yet. The final whistle hasn't been blown yet and it ain't over till the fat lady sings. NS can still cause a huge upset/comeback in the final quarter. So really, right now it's do or die for both pairings. Whatever happens from here on, it's make or break it. And Kishi has the ball rolling where he wants it to go.

So I will acknowledge it is a NH moment no matter what you like to call it. But I'm not going to say they're canon either. But recent chapters, along with this stupid Sasuke arc isn't helping matters.

Also, I'm the type of person that likes to say it's never too late to do something. If Kishi wants NH, then he can build it from now and I wouldn't care if it's too late or not. The point is their journey. If their journey is satisfying enough for me and resolves Naruto's feelings for Sakura well, I'll accept it.

I would agree with you, but the thing is that, there was NO "journey" for the relationship between naruto and hinata, no build up nothing, but narusaku on the other hand is down to earth, and has been developing up until now in the manga.

I dunno how you could even say that naruhina has more quality than narusaku, what manga have you been reading? (Not trying to be rude) just because hinata got her closure in chp 615, and heck, she only held narutos hand for chakra control, and naruto didn't seem to be love struck since then, then naruto let go of her hand and proceeded to pass chakra to the rest of the rookies in the same manner he did to hinata, and you may be wondering why he didn't do it with sakura, thats easy; thats just kishi's way of showing us that its time for the SIDE characters to shine, so why would he have SAKURA the HEROINE be involved in the side characters closure?

I'll conclude my post with this question for you:
Lets say according to what you say, that if kishi starts building naruhina from here on out, and forgets all the development he did for narusaku-which would just be wasting our, as well as his time, then why even bother with all the paralells, mutual development, the latest movie and much more? Why kushinas words? Why why why, and so many why's.

Now on to my question, and after this im just gonna read your reply and not reply after that:

For Masashi Kishimoto to start developing naruhina, especially this late in the story, and suddenly make hinata narutos girl, wouldn't that be the worst writing ever? Now all i want you is to answer me a simple "Yes" or "No" if you dont mind.

Edit:My sincere apologies for any misunderstandments.

Edited by Canadian_DJ, 20 March 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Codus N]

For this you have to answer how a pairing without quantity but with quality (what it doesnt even have till now) can outshine a pairing with quality and quantity. Next thing would be, how to give quality to a pairing that lowers the quality of the story?

That's the thing. Even I don't know. But if Kishi has found some kind of miraculous way to give quality to a pairing and make it work without destroying whatsoever development Naruto had for Sakura, then I'm all for it. And like I said I'm a Quality over quantity person. So even if NS has both, if the development stops here, then I'll accept NH. I've never looked at NS from both perspectives, quality or quantity. I look at NS from a qualitative view, 'cause that matters most to me. Same would go for NH. I would look at it from a qualitative view. And right now it has risen significantly than before.

@Canadian DJ:If Kishi plans on developing their journey from now on, then I don't mind. For all I know, he could just chalk all the parallels up as nothing but red herring in the end. It's his manga, he makes the rules. Not us. So, no matter how bad it will be if that turned out, it's still his work. It all depends on his view. Also, if he actually cared more about ratings and how that wasted his time building the parallels, it's his problem not ours. Remember Kishi decides what goes in the manga, not us.

Answering your question:

Yes: if there is no more development from here on.
No: if there is consistent development from here on.

Edited by Codus N, 20 March 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[PhenixElite]

That's the thing. Even I don't know. But if Kishi has found some kind of miraculous way to give quality to a pairing and make it work without destroying whatsoever development Naruto had for Sakura, then I'm all for it. And like I said I'm a Quality over quantity person. So even if NS has both, if the development stops here, then I'll accept NH. I've never looked at NS from both perspectives, quality or quantity. I look at NS from a qualitative view, 'cause that matters most to me. Same would go for NH. I would look at it from a qualitative view. And right now it has risen significantly than before.

Well, i wouldnt call 2 moments as well risen.
I dont think that kishi is able to find a way and also i dont know why he should do it if its only causing troubles. The only reason for him to do it would be catering the fandom, since he needs money or whatever (guess not).

For me personally, kishi can show me whatever he wants, but he wont change my view and opinion on NH, since he cant make over 10 years and 600 chapters vanish.

[Codus N]

Since you seem to be a quantitative person, I don't think I'll be going anywhere with you on this. So let's end this.

[PhenixElite]

Since you seem to be a quantitative person, I don't think I'll be going anywhere with you on this. So let's end this.

I said it earlier, i personally dont tend to a single one, for me quantity and quality goes hand in hand at least in terms of pairings and good story telling. Without quantity theres no quality.

[Codus N]

Hey, your call.

While a balance is nice, but if one has higher quality than the other, then I'd choose that over anything. I'll say this one last time. If Kishi can make up for NH's lack of quantity with quality from here on, then I'll accept it.

[Canadian_DJ]

Maan the new movie is killliing meeee!!!! But I MUST resist!!!

[PhenixElite]

Hey, your call.

While a balance is nice, but if one has higher quality than the other, then I'd choose that over anything. I'll say this one last time. If Kishi can make up for NH's lack of quantity with quality from here on, then I'll accept it.

Im not sure if you get what i mean. Its different in pairings. NH as an example can only get higher quality if its going to get more quantity from no on. So even if this happens now it still doesnt change how the story progressed till now.
So now if we take any random pairing in a story: How can get this pairing quality if its only interacts about 3 times in the story? It cant, thats what i mean with "without quantity no quality".

[HauntedCake]

Hey, your call.

While a balance is nice, but if one has higher quality than the other, then I'd choose that over anything. I'll say this one last time. If Kishi can make up for NH's lack of quantity with quality from here on, then I'll accept it.

The thing i think you are missing is that Sakura has had many "quality" moments with Naruto because she is gradually falling in love with him. On the other hand Hinata is obsessed with him and infactuated with Naruto which is why shes had these "Quality" speeches with Naruto, confessing her love because she hasn't got conflicting feelings.

I'm slighly concerned with all the NH moments we've been force fed recently but Sakura is slowly falling in love with Naruto and she has yet to overcome Sasuke. I have no doubts our NS "quality" moments are incoming soon and in great "Quantity"

Conclusion: Hinata has only ever loved Naruto = easy to have "quality moments, force fed ,only recently, small quantity"
Sakura Loved Sasuke and has feelings for Naruto growing = " lots of small moments gradualy increasing in quality"

We really need to wait for Naruto vs Sasuke arc before we see Sakura's hand.

Edited by HauntedCake, 20 March 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Hey, your call.

While a balance is nice, but if one has higher quality than the other, then I'd choose that over anything. I'll say this one last time. If Kishi can make up for NH's lack of quantity with quality from here on, then I'll accept it.

OFC everyone will accept it because it's canon , captain obvious strikes back.

Jokes aside.

I think it's too late for kishimoto to give a reasonable reason for NH to be canon no matter what he does NH cant have quality and never will, because Sakura's character got resumed to Naruto or Sasuke, Sasuke or Naruto.
Pratically it, if he suddenly "i'll start developing NH" then why he did that with Sakura's character and most importantly why he'd give up on developing his own "main heroine" why waste time doing parallels and even drawing pages where he shows her as the main heroine just to get sidelined by Hinata, and moreover the fact that if NH has to happen kishimoto has to find a way to insert her on the team 7, shows Hinata with own desires which does not get resumed to "Naruto-kun".
It's too late to insert quality, ofc he can make canon and if he does everyone has to accpet since it's canon but does not have quality, it will be just mere "fanservice" if he wanted to make NH canon he should had developed her character on the begining of part 2.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 March 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Codus N]

Im not sure if you get what i mean. Its different in pairings. NH as an example can only get higher quality if its going to get more quantity from no on. So even if this happens now it still doesnt change how the story progressed till now.
So now if we take any random pairing in a story: How can get this pairing quality if its only interacts about 3 times in the story? It cant, thats what i mean with "without quantity no quality".

Oh, I see. My bad looks like I wasn't clear enough.

Well, truth is that's exactly what I mean. NH getting more moments from now and (development) quality eclipses that of NS. Even if NS had more moments from the beginning, if NH moments (from here on) eclipses those moments in terms of quality, then I'd accept it. It doesn't matter if NS moments had more quantity from the start if nothing ever comes out of those in the end. What's the point?? That's what I meant by Quality>Quantity.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Oh, I see. My bad looks like I wasn't clear enough.

Well, truth is that's exactly what I mean. NH getting more moments from now and (development) quality eclipses that of NS. Even if NS had more moments from the beginning, if NH moments (from here on) eclipses those moments in terms of quality, then I'd accept it. It doesn't matter if NS moments had more quantity from the start if nothing ever comes out of those in the end. What's the point?? That's what I meant by Quality>Quantity.

I call it asspulls not development, NH does not have quality.
Because first you have to find a reason for Naruto to move on which is none, Sakura still loving Sasuke is not reason, then he has to move on from Sakura when he is most close to her which is even stated by kishimoto himself and it's ridiculous because Sakura gets trolled.

Second, there's no personal development for Hinata which does not involve "Naruto-kun", this entire arc was Hinata thinking about Naruto this is not development.
If we could talk about quality NaruIno has way more quality over Naruhina.
Ino knows the pain of losng a teacher, losing a parent, knows now about hatred and she's does not revolve around Naruto only.

There's no quality for NH no matter what kishimoto does too late already.
He had a chance to develop NaruHina romantically on the handholding but he discarded i cant see him developing it from now on.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 March 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Oh, I see. My bad looks like I wasn't clear enough.

Well, truth is that's exactly what I mean. NH getting more moments from now and (development) quality eclipses that of NS. Even if NS had more moments from the beginning, if NH moments (from here on) eclipses those moments in terms of quality, then I'd accept it. It doesn't matter if NS moments had more quantity from the start if nothing ever comes out of those in the end. What's the point?? That's what I meant by Quality>Quantity.

Yeah thats true, but if nothig comes out of all this moments in the end, i see it as bad writing and story telling.
Thats also what i mean with ruining the story. Kishi can focus on NH from now on and make it canon, but he wont be able to tell why he developed the relationship between Naruto and Sakura till the end instead of the realtionship between hinata and naruto.

Edited by PhenixElite, 20 March 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Codus N]

Yeah thats true, but if nothig comes out of all this moments in the end, i see it as bad writing and story telling.
Thats also what i mean with ruining the story. Kishi can focus on NH from now on and make it canon, but he wont be able to tell why he developed the relationship between Naruto and Sakura till the end instead of the realtionship between hinata and naruto.

I think you shouldn't say things you don't really know about. I mean, we don't even know what's going on in that man's mind, so we can't really say anything. Who knows, Kishi may have a plan in mind to explain all these, so I'm going to give him a chance. It's pretty much make or break for Kishi right now.

[redragon88]

@Codus N

Quality is good to have in any storytelling, and I do agree that a few quality moments can compensate for lack of quality.

The problem is that if you're going to focus on the quality instead of the quantity it must be spread evenly throughout the story. If all the quality is going to be forced in just during the ending it will inevitable raise some eyebrows.

Say that suddenly now Kishi wanted to focus on the romantic relationship between Naruto and Ino. No matter how emotional and intimate he could create moments for them right now it will be confusing as all heck given that so far they have shown no interest in each other. No matter how great a moment Kishi could create between them most of us would just be asking what the heck is going on.

Even though Hinata has shown interest in Naruto throughout the manga there has never been any indication that Naruto could see her as more then a friend, therefore if he starts to fall for her now it will come off as weird since it will feel completely out of character for him.

This is where Sakura has the clear advantage as she has grown more affectionate of Naruto as the story goes on. Whether for quality or quantity, Sakura's development towards Naruto has spread throughout the entire story. Sakura has the backing to see Naruto as more then a friend, she's the only one out of all to have this. She's the only possible option that will make the general fans feel like it's not being forced or strange to have a change of feelings.

The only people who would now accept Naruto falling in love with Hinata without questioning his character are the shippers that have hoped for years that Naruto showed some kind of reciprocation. Those people don't wonder about proper story flow, they just want Naruto to finally return Hinata's feelings. They would sacrifice proper story flow just for the sake of seeing their pairing realized.

Not all fans of Naruto are fans of pairing. I dare say that only a small minority care for that at all. But what they would care about, in my opinion, is that whatever romantic resolution there is goes with the natural flow of the story and the only one that fits the prerequisites is Sakura returning Naruto's love.

[PhenixElite]

I think you shouldn't say things you don't really know about. I mean, we don't even know what's going on in that man's mind, so we can't really say anything. Who knows, Kishi may have a plan in mind to explain all these, so I'm going to give him a chance. It's pretty much make or break for Kishi right now.

I think i can for sure say that theres just no option to give all the moments between naruto and sakura a reasonable conclusion with saying they were only ment to be friends. Theres no possibilty without asspull.

There are possiblities for Kishi to make all the NS moments vanish, but not without asspull. As example: sakura only wanted to be firends with naruto, or that naruto was in love with hinata aswell during part 1 and 2 but didnt showed it, or the story was ment to show how the main character overcomes his first love.
But thats all nothing more than huge asspulls.

Edited by PhenixElite, 20 March 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Codus N]

@Codus N

Quality is good to have in any storytelling, and I do agree that a few quality moments can compensate for lack of quantity.

The problem is that if you're going to focus on the quality instead of the quantity it must be spread evenly throughout the story. If all the quality is going to be forced in just during the ending it will inevitable raise some eyebrows.

Say that suddenly now Kishi wanted to focus on the romantic relationship between Naruto and Ino. No matter how emotional and intimate he could create moments for them right now it will be confusing as all heck given that so far they have shown no interest in each other. No matter how great a moment Kishi could create between them most of us would just be asking what the heck is going on.

Even though Hinata has shown interest in Naruto throughout the manga there has never been any indication that Naruto could see her as more then a friend, therefore if he starts to fall for her now it will come off as weird since it will feel completely out of character for him.

This is where Sakura has the clear advantage as she has grown more affectionate of Naruto as the story goes on. Whether for quality or quantity, Sakura's development towards Naruto has spread throughout the entire story. Sakura has the backing to see Naruto as more then a friend, she's the only one out of all to have this. She's the only possible option that will make the general fans feel like it's not being forced or strange to have a change of feelings.

The only people who would now accept Naruto falling in love with Hinata without questioning his character are the shippers that have hoped for years that Naruto showed some kind of reciprocation. Those people don't wonder about proper story flow, they just want Naruto to finally return Hinata's feelings. They would sacrifice proper story flow just for the sake of seeing their pairing realized.

Not all fans of Naruto are fans of pairing. I dare say that only a small minority care for that at all. But what they would care about, in my opinion, is that whatever romantic resolution there is goes with the natural flow of the story and the only one that fits the prerequisites is Sakura returning Naruto's love.

I understand that.

But like I said before, if Kishi keeps their development consistent from here on out, then that's fine by me. I don't mind if this is the beginning of their development, 'cause I think we're still a couple of hundred chapters to go to the ending.

And like you said, there is a problem if there is no interest in each other to begin with. That's the million-dollar question here. But the thing is, there is a basis for that development: 615. I'm not talking about the hand-holding. I'm talking about how Hinata snapped him out of his darkest moments in life. That has to count for something, right?? whether Naruto sees it as something more than friendship will soon to be determined later. Right now it's make or break this time. It's all on Kishi now.

BTW, I just got an evil idea for a plot twist

We know from the Chuunin exams that the Uchiha and Hyuuga have some sort of blood relationship. If I had to put it, it could be akin to the Uzumaki-Senju relationship. And now we are given the revelation all Uchihas are Yandere and that it has a relation with their doujutsu, so if this is true, what if there's a MS Byakugan version?? and that to unlock it, a Hyuuga must be so deep in despair. So if Hinata friendzoned, what if that causes her to unlock MS version of Byakugan?? and as result, she goes insane and joins Obito and Madara. I will absolutely laugh my ass off if this happens

@Phenix: Like I keep saying, I'm going to give Kishi the benefit of doubt and let him surprise me. He may just surprise me without resorting to asspulls.

Edited by Codus N, 20 March 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

OFC everyone will accept it because it's canon , captain obvious strikes back.

Jokes aside.

I think it's too late for kishimoto to give a reasonable reason for NH to be canon no matter what he does NH cant have quality and never will, because Sakura's character got resumed to Naruto or Sasuke, Sasuke or Naruto.
Pratically it, if he suddenly "i'll start developing NH" then why he did that with Sakura's character and most importantly why he'd give up on developing his own "main heroine" why waste time doing parallels and even drawing pages where he shows her as the main heroine just to get sidelined by Hinata, and moreover the fact that if NH has to happen kishimoto has to find a way to insert her on the team 7, shows Hinata with own desires which does not get resumed to "Naruto-kun".
It's too late to insert quality, ofc he can make canon and if he does everyone has to accpet since it's canon but does not have quality, it will be just mere "fanservice" if he wanted to make NH canon he should had developed her character on the begining of part 2.

Agreed!

[Weltall]

When I said i find it bad writing that naruto and sakura didn't talk about the fake confession it was just an example there are other worst examples, I may expand on that if I'm in the right mood. The only reason why I think why narusaku will prevail isn't because of the relationship itself but because of the whole plot. Kishi is so predictable you just have to look at the big picture and the themes and you will easily predict the outcome but it doesn't mean in anyway that it will be convincing.
Nevertheless codusn' s argument has some value but it applies to every pairing not just NH (apart from all pairings involving Sasuke which are downright terrible) I just don't trust kishi's abilities to make it believable.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think i can for sure say that theres just no option to give all the moments between naruto and sakura a reasonable conclusion with saying they were only ment to be friends. Theres no possibilty without asspull.

There are possiblities for Kishi to make all the NS moments vanish, but not without asspull. As example: sakura only wanted to be firends with naruto, or that naruto was in love with hinata aswell during part 1 and 2 but didnt showed it, or the story was ment to show how the main character overcomes his first love.
But thats all nothing more than huge asspulls.

This is what i'm saying earlier.

When kishimoto was interviewd by SJ Alpha.
He said that Naruto would be "perfect".

If we follow up the story we can see that Naruto's love for Sakura is pratically perfect.
He loves her but does not treat it like a possession.
It's not obssessed with Naruto.
Does not get hurt because of that love, it's mainly because of Sasuke.
Does not force it.
Does not chase/stalk Sakura.
Can pass years away from her but still is in love.
He despicted a perfect love how it can be perfect if he has to move on?

Moreover he had the chance of developing NH romantically on 615 and 616 but he discarded it, that was the moment for NH to be canon because Kishi could give some Naruto>>Hinata implicity like the part that Sakura>>Naruto on the bridge battle which didnt happened.

NH can only become canon with asspull and it's bad writing.