19964 replies to this topic

[Branden]

I can't wait for NS and Sakura moments in the manga already. Damn, wish the movie never got leaked.

leaked? where?

[Baguette]

It's true, these are NaruHina moments, but these explanations are to diffuse the insane conclusion jumping claims many insane fans brought about. They Say Naruto just suddenly loves Hinata now when there are many reasons saying how other things are basically still intact.

Its basically the same way they claimed NaruSaku died at the confession, in the same way they jumped to conclusions then, they did it again recently in December. So yeah while it is a string of NaruHina moments, honestly Hinata needed it, she was bland and did nothing of massive use until now. All I'm saying is, these people need to take a breather beyond the moments and realize the events themselves, not assuming what they want. I mean again if Naruto suddenly loved Hinata out of this, that equals plot damage, throw out the Naruto Sakura friendship development throughout the majority of part 2.

Just because Naruto begins to have romantic feelings for Hinata doesn't mean it would be throwing out Naruto and Sakura's relationship. Like you said, it could be seen as friendship development throughout part 2, so what's the problem with them staying very close friends in the end?

They were canon NaruHina moments like much of the other NaruSaku moments, but it does not justify NaruHina as suddenly canon as many insane fans claim it to be.

-Were these NaruHina moments in chp 615-617? Yes
-Motivational? Yes
-Romantic? Only on Hinata's side, Naruto's side it was not, he was most likely thinking of all those (parents, Itachi, chiyo, Nagato, etc) who put their faith in him and gave him the development to get where he stood. More than that, we can see he was thinking about those who sacrificed for him and putting the plan into motion, he knew kurama had to get energy for the plan, Shikaku told him this plan via Inoichi and all other ninja before they died so yeah the plan was in the works before even neji died.
-Sakura's reaction? This is what many fans have just passed by, why and just why would one panel be given to Sakura? This type of thing makes people think, even Slextrem put this in her video, it was during the speeches duration we see her reaction, why and why only her? Is she reacting to the speech, hinata, or something else (Tsunade's condition)? I bet its centered around the speech though and even then, it has something on Sakura's part we still have to see.

Perhaps she was just reacting to Neji's death like everyone else, and Kishimoto put her there specifically to make up for her lack of panel time in recent chapters?

Basically what I was saying is by dissecting these, its more or less the underlying meanings of these high moments on each character. Can Naruto start to love Hinata out of this, possibly, this could be the start of NaruHina, but as of right now, we don't know Naruto's feelings. Sakura's still matter in this case too, again Kishi could have left out that reaction panel but he still puts it in, I mean if there is some event that makes Sakura notice them and not care or think shes is right for Naruto or the same in reverse with Hinata noticing Naruto and Sakura together, these situations could more or less signal a canon pairing (so if Sakura supported Hinata being with Naruto then NaruHina would be much likelier and vice versa, we want that vice versa to come). Sakura's feelings cannot be cast out into the cold because of this one panel, this along with chp 540 and her feelings on Sasuke are mainly what drive this right now.

With Chp 540, Sakura is still shown to have feelings for Sasuke despite what he has turned into, so does it not signify that her feelings for him are not superficial at all, and that she did not simply love him for being the "cool guy?"
Hypothetically, if Sasuke were to be redeemed by the end, would it not then increasingly justify Sakura getting with Sasuke?

Basically until the manga reveals something we truely cannot say where Naruto's feelings or Sakura's lie. Only Hinata's remain clear. Its just that NaruSaku has many things saying its still alive and there are still more reasons saying Naruto loves Sakura (we even have fillers saying this) by way of story elements and consistency/logic for characters. The confession and their mentalities again, Naruto cannot stay not loving Sakura and not forgive her when he knew it was for his benefit and Sai himself said he felt he drove Sakura to do it. Naruto can forgive many evil doers but not Sakura and no longer love her for the simple lie to protect him, logic break right there. Sakura cannot stay loving Sasuke, damages her character SS would cause too much damage for the story and Sasuke and Sakura's characters. Still so many parallels and other events have Naruto and Sakura still in a close relationship.

He might forgive Sakura, but that doesn't automatically mean that he retains his affections for her. With the confession, we see that Naruto believes that Sakura clearly still loves Sasuke, and what's to say that he doesn't accept that fact won't change?

If Naruto could not forgive Sakura and just stopped loving her, that's a cheap way to open up NaruHina. Naruto is still up on the promise to sakura and to just suddenly drop the fact of (how can I confess to her, I can't even keep my promises) why would kishi just drop this 12 chapters later? Seriously? That makes the promise much weaker and worthless at this point if he stopped loving Sakura. The promise is not just to Sakura, it became for all of team 7. It was only the first of many events to give Naruto all the more reason to save Sasuke. He is rescuing Sasuke for both the promise and his own reasons (parents, revenge, Itachi, ninja world, curse of hatred, etc).

Like you said, it's not just about the promise. Naruto has a plethora of other things motivating him to save Sasuke. With the confession, the importance of the promise was pretty much downplayed and now doesn't matter as much.

So yeah NaruHina has a lot of story elements to drop suddenly if Naruto truly gave up on Sakura (and giving up is contradictory to his character). Until we see them together again, no telling. But one thing is good about Naruto and Sakura, they know to think of love some other time, not in the middle of a battlefield like Hinata. Get all mushy and emotional when downtime comes and the current fight is halted.

I still get a laugh out of all the insane fans being butthurt over Hinata not being unique and tackling the ten tails alone with both Naruto and Bee. That was a massive troll moment from Kishi. If Hinata can do something big and motivational and still be friend zoned, don't know what she should do at this point to turn Naruto away from Sakura. I mean at least in big moments Naruto and Sakura have acknowledged each other in hard events and given mutual development. Hinata's speech to Naruto, 5 seconds of attention, lets go of hand, friend zoned again.

Ch.616 does not downplay the significance of 615. In retrospect, it wouldn't even have made tactical sense for Naruto and Hinata to attack together.

[TouKen4Life3g]

leaked? where?

In the movie thread.

[PhenixElite]

Just because Naruto begins to have romantic feelings for Hinata doesn't mean it would be throwing out Naruto and Sakura's relationship. Like you said, it could be seen as friendship development throughout part 2, so what's the problem with them staying very close friends in the end?


Perhaps she was just reacting to Neji's death like everyone else, and Kishimoto put her there specifically to make up for her lack of panel time in recent chapters?



With Chp 540, Sakura is still shown to have feelings for Sasuke despite what he has turned into, so does it not signify that her feelings for him are not superficial at all, and that she did not simply love him for being the "cool guy?"
Hypothetically, if Sasuke were to be redeemed by the end, would it not then increasingly justify Sakura getting with Sasuke?



He might forgive Sakura, but that doesn't automatically mean that he retains his affections for her. With the confession, we see that Naruto believes that Sakura clearly still loves Sasuke, and what's to say that he doesn't accept that fact won't change?


Like you said, it's not just about the promise. Naruto has a plethora of other things motivating him to save Sasuke. With the confession, the importance of the promise was pretty much downplayed and now doesn't matter as much.


Ch.616 does not downplay the significance of 615. In retrospect, it wouldn't even have made tactical sense for Naruto and Hinata to attack together.

Turned into a NH? tztztztz

[Baguette]

Turned into a NH? tztztztz

Yes. Through a debate with a NaruHina fan a few days ago, I finally came to see why NaruHina would become canon.

[PhenixElite]

Yes. Through a debate with a NaruHina fan a few days ago, I finally came to see why NaruHina would become canon.

Hahaha lol.

[HauntedCake]

Yes. Through a debate with a NaruHina fan a few days ago, I finally came to see why NaruHina would become canon.

TBH i don't mind NH but i detest SS with all my heart. Id rather die by fire then have SS become canon. Could you bring up that conversation with that NH fan here so we can see his/her points?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Just because Naruto begins to have romantic feelings for Hinata doesn't mean it would be throwing out Naruto and Sakura's relationship. Like you said, it could be seen as friendship development throughout part 2, so what's the problem with them staying very close friends in the end?


Perhaps she was just reacting to Neji's death like everyone else, and Kishimoto put her there specifically to make up for her lack of panel time in recent chapters?



With Chp 540, Sakura is still shown to have feelings for Sasuke despite what he has turned into, so does it not signify that her feelings for him are not superficial at all, and that she did not simply love him for being the "cool guy?"
Hypothetically, if Sasuke were to be redeemed by the end, would it not then increasingly justify Sakura getting with Sasuke?



He might forgive Sakura, but that doesn't automatically mean that he retains his affections for her. With the confession, we see that Naruto believes that Sakura clearly still loves Sasuke, and what's to say that he doesn't accept that fact won't change?


Like you said, it's not just about the promise. Naruto has a plethora of other things motivating him to save Sasuke. With the confession, the importance of the promise was pretty much downplayed and now doesn't matter as much.


Ch.616 does not downplay the significance of 615. In retrospect, it wouldn't even have made tactical sense for Naruto and Hinata to attack together.

It downplayed because the impression that was left is that Naruto and Hinata would fight together as a couple Kishi could make a development of Naruto>Hinata which didnt happened, because Naruto left out her hand and tranfered his chakra to the others, but Hinata get what she wanted this did not get downplayed she got her acknowledgement from Naruto, and which Naruto acknowledged her before as strong.
It didnt imply romantic intentions from him.
it could be a development for Naruto towards Hinata but kishimoto throw this moment into a trash can.

With Chp 540, Sakura is still shown to have feelings for Sasuke despite what he has turned into, so does it not signify that her feelings for him are not superficial at all, and that she did not simply love him for being the "cool guy?"
Hypothetically, if Sasuke were to be redeemed by the end, would it not then increasingly justify Sakura getting with Sasuke?

Because different than Ino and Karin they belonged on the same team, she has a bond with Sasuke and the fact that Sasuke does not love her, ofc she has reasons to move on but it's shown a lot of times that even on her confession that what makes her happy was the team 7.
If SS were to happen it should not be so bad portraited so many times.

Her "fake confession" killed off SS there, not because she still loves Sasuke but because she realized things and stopped to think about Naruto and Sasuke, and comes to realize that Naruto pratically did everything to her, this is the reason why she was willing to give up her "love" for Sasuke to be with him, because she knew that she could love if she give a chance.
Naruto didnt accepted because of a lot of reasons and even because of bonds and the situation and his currently thinking about the things.
He didnt realized that Sasuke was too deep into darkness.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 March 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[六道仙人]

Yes. Through a debate with a NaruHina fan a few days ago, I finally came to see why NaruHina would become canon.

??

[TouKen4Life3g]

TBH i don't mind NH but i detest SS with all my heart. Id rather die by fire then have SS become canon. Could you bring up that conversation with that NH fan here so we can see his/her points?

Lol same here. I rather die than seeing SS canon. It's the epitome of horrible if it truly happens.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Yes. Through a debate with a NaruHina fan a few days ago, I finally came to see why NaruHina would become canon.

come back dude. We have cookies.

[PhenixElite]

Lol same here. I rather die than seeing SS canon. It's the epitome of horrible if it truly happens.

For me it doesnt matter wheter its NH or SS, both of them are pure hell-

[Arachnia]

Sakura's English voice actress is a SasSak fan.

well i like the sakura jap voice way more:P

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Lol same here. I rather die than seeing SS canon. It's the epitome of horrible if it truly happens.

This so much. SasuSaku is just complete crap IMO, it's such a bad couple. If SasuSaku by some miracle happens, my rage fit will be insane.

[Arachnia]

For me it doesnt matter wheter its NH or SS, both of them are pure hell-

well NH is not hell, problem is thought NH is going too happen then so is SS and that is not cool and total hell:P and will ruin the overall story for me. but i am sure its not only me

Edited by Arachnia, 17 March 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[Baguette]

Sure. To give pretext to the situation: in a thread where a NH said that NaruHina was canon as of 615, I offered to debate him in private. He took me up on the offer, and our subsequent conversation is as follows:

NH fan: Naruto hold hands for a long time with Hinata = very big deal in Japan = love simbol in Japan culture!


Me: Then I suppose NaruShika is also canon. Their hand-holding was even more involved than Naruto with Hinata.

Panels --Click here to view--

In all seriousness, though, I come from East Asia myself (a former Japanese colony, no less), and I can assure you we are not the alien culture you make us out to be. Many of the same gestures we have over there have similar connotations to its western counterparts. Hand-holding there has the same degree of romantic implication as it does in western regions, the difference being that is considered a bit impolite to do so in public for Asians. Hand-holding, based on the context of the situation itself, can either imply or not imply romantic intent. While it seemed to be romantic as of Ch.615, Kishimoto revealed in the very next chapter that there was an ulterior motive behind that hand-holding, and in effect unfortunately downplaying the NaruHina moment.

Furthermore, by claiming that NaruHina is already canon, you are setting your argument up for failure in the event that a single NaruSaku moment happens beyond this point.
It's unfortunate for NaruHina that Hinata's wish from the Ch. 573 came true this early on, with Naruto set to continue until mid-2014, as it marks the end of a main aspect of her character development.
Keep in mind the love triangle between Team 7, along with the Obi/Rin=>Kakashi & Naru/Saku=>Sasuke parallel, is an major issue that remains to be resolved by the end of the series. From the pattern indicated in Ch. 573, we also know Sakura will be the last of the Konoha 11 to conclude her development with Naruto.

From a writing/storytelling standpoint, it's not looking too good for NaruHina right now.

NH fan: 1. Naruto hold Hinata's hand for a long time. He taps Shikamaru and the others more. That is a big difference.
2. Hinata is the one who saves Naruto from despair vs Obito. "You were always by my side" like Naruto said.
3. Since the war started, Kishimoto is directly going into the NaruHina direction, without any troll, not one!
4. The panel where NaruHina stands for the Juubi, that is called love vs hate!

Me: 1. You ignored my explanation of how hand holding actually works in Asian countries , and even though I talked about NaruShika in jest, you are incorrect in saying that he only tapped Shikamaru's hand. Please reread the panels.
2. Actually Hinata was not the one who ultimately did that. Kurama did. And it's been proven through language translations that "You were always by my side" was meant towards not only Hinata, but to others (like Neji) as well.
3. Directly going in NaruHina? Without any troll?....oh boy. Do you not acknowledge Ch. 616 as a chapter? I recall the reactions all over the forums. Many NaruHina fans were absolutely pissed with what happened. It's the same thing that happened with Hinata's confession during the pain arc all over again. And again you also ignore the fact that Naruto is stated to continue for 1.5 years or more. Take a step back and look at the overreaching story, once again from a writer/storytelling perspective.
4. Don't miss the forest for the trees. You think Love vs Hate pertains only to Naruto and Hinata when its been proven to go beyond that onto a bigger scale, even more so with recent chapters focused on the origins of hatred behind the Uchiha being love.

You also failed to address the Team Minato/Team 7 romance parallel, the MinaKushi/NaruSaku parallel established within the manga (and for those who still try to deny it in canon, it was explicitly reinforced through Road To Ninja that NaruSaku was the second generation MinaKushi), the Jiraiya/Tsunade thematic parallel (the master failed to achieve his goal of getting the girl, Naruto will change that this generation). Again, don't miss the forest for trees and disregard the themes and plot developments in favor of declaring your favorite pairing canon.

NH fan: Sorry, but i will ignore tou further. You actually compare the Naruto and Hinata hand holding with Naruto tapping Shikamaru and i stopped reading. Don't react back, please!

Me: So you start ignoring the opposition when they provide evidence to refute your claims along with additional arguments that further disprove your beliefs, and not to mention a plethora of story/writing reasons that support their side that you have yet to be able to refute?
It's okay if you can't keep up with this debate, but don't make up a ridiculous excuse just to get out of it.

NH fan: No, I am just honest with that I did not read any of your points. Since I know the truth already. No need in discussing this with someone who compares tapping with holding hands.

Me: If you "knew the truth already," you would have no problems considering my points and refuting them in support of this undeniable "truth."
Deliberate ignorance makes it apparent that one fears to hear what another has to say.
And perhaps I should have added a smiley after my NaruShika quip, but you missed the part where I followed up with "in all seriousness" and "though I talked about NaruShika in jest."
Using it as an excuse to back out of a debate doesn't speak for your apparent confidence in your pairing, no offense.

NH fan: Why do you keep replying me. I already told you please don't write back. I don't even read it. Sorry. Good day! With all respect. Cheers. Good day.

Me: Good day, sir. Hopefully you don't do this in all debates you lose in.

NH fan: How can I lose when I don't even read your comments. Good day.

Me: If you read my previous comments then you would know that I have already explained that. Good day indeed.

NH fan: Ok, you win debate. You are winner. Please, quiet now. Thank you and good day, sir.



Now when I first looked back upon this debate, I was pissed. Not only did this guy try to step around my arguments, but he even had the balls to feign ignorance when I kept pressing him on the issue. My initial conclusion was that he was just another idiotic NH fan who couldn't even back up his own point of view. But then, I took another look at this statement:
No, I am just honest with that I did not read any of your points. Since I know the truth already. No need in discussing this with someone who compares tapping with holding hands.

And then it clicked. There is simply no way anyone could genuinely be as stupid as this guy seemed to be, to remain so confident in their pairing even in the face of all the mounting evidence against it. Therefore, the only logical conclusion I could come to was that he indeed knew some truth that I did not, that I was the unenlightened one here. It finally made sense, as there has to be a good reason for so many people to ship NaruHina; they must all know something that we as NaruSaku fans refuse to see. They know the truth. And with that I finally realized that, yes, there is no denying it. NaruHina will become canon.

Edited by Baguette, 17 March 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[redragon88]

^ Oh, ok then. Go NH... I suppose.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Sure. To give pretext to the situation: in a thread where a NH said that NaruHina was canon as of 615, I offered to debate him in private. He took me up on the offer, and our subsequent conversation is as follows:

NH fan: Naruto hold hands for a long time with Hinata = very big deal in Japan = love simbol in Japan culture!


Me: Then I suppose NaruShika is also canon. Their hand-holding was even more involved than Naruto with Hinata.

Panels --Click here to view--

In all seriousness, though, I come from East Asia myself (a former Japanese colony, no less), and I can assure you we are not the alien culture you make us out to be. Many of the same gestures we have over there have similar connotations to its western counterparts. Hand-holding there has the same degree of romantic implication as it does in western regions, the difference being that is considered a bit impolite to do so in public for Asians. Hand-holding, based on the context of the situation itself, can either imply or not imply romantic intent. While it seemed to be romantic as of Ch.615, Kishimoto revealed in the very next chapter that there was an ulterior motive behind that hand-holding, and in effect unfortunately downplaying the NaruHina moment.

Furthermore, by claiming that NaruHina is already canon, you are setting your argument up for failure in the event that a single NaruSaku moment happens beyond this point.
It's unfortunate for NaruHina that Hinata's wish from the Ch. 573 came true this early on, with Naruto set to continue until mid-2014, as it marks the end of a main aspect of her character development.
Keep in mind the love triangle between Team 7, along with the Obi/Rin=>Kakashi & Naru/Saku=>Sasuke parallel, is an major issue that remains to be resolved by the end of the series. From the pattern indicated in Ch. 573, we also know Sakura will be the last of the Konoha 11 to conclude her development with Naruto.

From a writing/storytelling standpoint, it's not looking too good for NaruHina right now.

NH fan: 1. Naruto hold Hinata's hand for a long time. He taps Shikamaru and the others more. That is a big difference.
2. Hinata is the one who saves Naruto from despair vs Obito. "You were always by my side" like Naruto said.
3. Since the war started, Kishimoto is directly going into the NaruHina direction, without any troll, not one!
4. The panel where NaruHina stands for the Juubi, that is called love vs hate!

Me: 1. You ignored my explanation of how hand holding actually works in Asian countries , and even though I talked about NaruShika in jest, you are incorrect in saying that he only tapped Shikamaru's hand. Please reread the panels.
2. Actually Hinata was not the one who ultimately did that. Kurama did. And it's been proven through language translations that "You were always by my side" was meant towards not only Hinata, but to others (like Neji) as well.
3. Directly going in NaruHina? Without any troll?....oh boy. Do you not acknowledge Ch. 616 as a chapter? I recall the reactions all over the forums. Many NaruHina fans were absolutely pissed with what happened. It's the same thing that happened with Hinata's confession during the pain arc all over again. And again you also ignore the fact that Naruto is stated to continue for 1.5 years or more. Take a step back and look at the overreaching story, once again from a writer/storytelling perspective.
4. Don't miss the forest for the trees. You think Love vs Hate pertains only to Naruto and Hinata when its been proven to go beyond that onto a bigger scale, even more so with recent chapters focused on the origins of hatred behind the Uchiha being love.

You also failed to address the Team Minato/Team 7 romance parallel, the MinaKushi/NaruSaku parallel established within the manga (and for those who still try to deny it in canon, it was explicitly reinforced through Road To Ninja that NaruSaku was the second generation MinaKushi), the Jiraiya/Tsunade thematic parallel (the master failed to achieve his goal of getting the girl, Naruto will change that this generation). Again, don't miss the forest for trees and disregard the themes and plot developments in favor of declaring your favorite pairing canon.

NH fan: Sorry, but i will ignore tou further. You actually compare the Naruto and Hinata hand holding with Naruto tapping Shikamaru and i stopped reading. Don't react back, please!

Me: So you start ignoring the opposition when they provide evidence to refute your claims along with additional arguments that further disprove your beliefs, and not to mention a plethora of story/writing reasons that support their side that you have yet to be able to refute?
It's okay if you can't keep up with this debate, but don't make up a ridiculous excuse just to get out of it.

NH fan: No, I am just honest with that I did not read any of your points. Since I know the truth already. No need in discussing this with someone who compares tapping with holding hands.

Me: If you "knew the truth already," you would have no problems considering my points and refuting them in support of this undeniable "truth."
Deliberate ignorance makes it apparent that one fears to hear what another has to say.
And perhaps I should have added a smiley after my NaruShika quip, but you missed the part where I followed up with "in all seriousness" and "though I talked about NaruShika in jest."
Using it as an excuse to back out of a debate doesn't speak for your apparent confidence in your pairing, no offense.

NH fan: Why do you keep replying me. I already told you please don't write back. I don't even read it. Sorry. Good day! With all respect. Cheers. Good day.

Me: Good day, sir. Hopefully you don't do this in all debates you lose in.

NH fan: How can I lose when I don't even read your comments. Good day.

Me: If you read my previous comments then you would know that I have already explained that. Good day indeed.

NH fan: Ok, you win debate. You are winner. Please, quiet now. Thank you and good day, sir.



Now when I first looked back upon this debate, I was pissed. Not only did this guy try to step around my arguments, but he even had the balls to feign ignorance when I kept pressing him on the issue. My initial conclusion was that he was just another idiotic NH fan who couldn't even back up his own point of view. But then, I took another look at this statement:
No, I am just honest with that I did not read any of your points. Since I know the truth already. No need in discussing this with someone who compares tapping with holding hands.

And then it clicked. There is simply no way anyone could genuinely be as stupid as this guy seemed to be, to remain so confident in their pairing even in the face of all the mounting evidence against it. Therefore, the only logical conclusion I could come to was that he indeed knew some truth that I did not, that I was the unenlightened one here. It finally made sense, as there has to be a good reason for so many people to ship NaruHina; they must all know something that we as NaruSaku fans refuse to see. They know the truth. And with that I finally realized that, yes, there is no denying it. NaruHina will become canon.

This is the single most brilliant use of sarcasm ever (i hope). Its to stupid to not be real . Love it. Glad to still have you in the green zone.

[catsi563]

NH fan: Why do you keep replying me. I already told you please don't write back. I don't even read it. Sorry. Good day! With all respect. Cheers. Good day.

Me: Good day, sir. Hopefully you don't do this in all debates you lose in.

NH fan: How can I lose when I don't even read your comments. Good day.

Me: If you read my previous comments then you would know that I have already explained that. Good day indeed.

NH fan: Ok, you win debate. You are winner. Please, quiet now. Thank you and good day, sir.

"What a lot of things you do use good day for." said Gandalf "now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and it wont be a good day until I move off."

~Gandalf to Bilbo, the Hobbit page 5

[Baguette]

This is the single most brilliant use of sarcasm ever (i hope). Its to stupid to not be real . Love it. Glad to still have you in the green zone.

Glad to be here.