3406 replies to this topic

[Nefertieh]

Sorry but I don't understand. What is the point of this whole Naruto x Sakura FC or this chapter 615 if we are not allowed to assume/discuss/debate things? Aren't we supposed to assume/discuss/debate the manga? There may be people who are downplaying this chapter and there are people who are unnecessarily being negative. I don't understand how people who are saying negative comments are getting a free pass, while the people who have a positive view has to be told not to assume anything.

That's not true at all. We're all in this FC because we love narusaku. If you have read this entire thread, you would have seen that many fans who have said they have "given up" have been harshly criticised. On the other hand, people who have been downplaying this chapter (by saying that this wasn't a naruhina moment or that Hinata's development is over) have not. Frankly, that isn't too different from the Pain arc -- Hinata confesses, people said that Hinata will not have any more development, then 615 blows up in their faces.

The people who are giving positive comments with backup reasons are always being told to "not to assume anything" and this gives nothing positive. This is just disregarding and brushing down the positive arguments with no effort or backup just because it's positive. Hence even if the comment itself was not meant to be negative, this action itself only brings negativity in the FC. If there was a backup argument of how the positive arguments are unreasonable, then that will help brush up the arguments. But a constant "don't assume/don't be sure" reply to every positive argument is not constructive at all.

And who the hell has the right to tell everyone not to assume anything?

No, there are a lot of reasonable positive comments that have been praised endlessly on this thread too -- like pointing out Naruto was giving Hinata chakra, pointing out that the manga is not over yet, and so forth.

I don't think a lot of people here want to give a "backup" for "brushing down the positive comments" because we don't want to bring more pessimism to the thread as it is. Do you think a good argument on why naruhina has a high chance of becoming canon is more negative than simply telling people not to assume anything?

I think it is good that there are both optimistic and realistic fans in this FC. It helps me believe in this ship more, because the it shows our fandom isn't backed by blind optimism. <3

Edited by Nefertieh, 30 December 2012 - 01:54 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

But i cant negate that the overall reception of this chapter was really bad no one is on a mood to discuss about the chapter, not even people who does not ship.
there already 3-4 days without a new post about Naruto 615 and moreover just complaints everywhere about naruto's story.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 30 December 2012 - 01:48 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Your argument seems to be that Sakura has no feelings towards Naruto because she shows no jealousy.

IMO, Sakura does not have feelings for Naruto because:

-Sakura doesn't show any romantic feelings for Naruto or desire to be with him, such as jealousy when another woman is seen holding his hand. (My latter quote explained what I thought about all those "NS hints".)
-because Sakura is shown to still be in love with Sasuke, chapter 540.
-Kishi seems to be going for NH and I don't think he would make yet another love triangle this late in the game with about 100 or less chapters left. (And this is smt this thread debates all the way from page 1.)

Which is why I personally think there is room for reasonable doubt. However, you have since shown you believe the former in your latest comment: "Sakura just doesn't seem to want to hold his hand and waltz down the aisle with him."

Oh, I have doubts about it. That's why I wrote " doesn't seem" there.

This statement of yours seems paradoxal to your later statement. Here you think everything is ambiguous, but later you say it is clear that Sakura would not be jealous and has made up her mind about being Naruto's "friend." So, which one is it?

If Sakura does not have feelings for Naruto, as I've now come pretty close to believe, then she would not be jealous of Hinata. If she has romantic feelings for him, she might react with jealousy. I think that NS is ambiguous enough to go either way for most of the manga but the recent chapters have given me a reason to believe more strongly than ever that Sakura's feelings for Naruto are going to be "revealed" as merely platonic.

Edit. Right now I alternate between a very confident "Sakura is totally not in love with Naruto, and NH is so going to be canon" and the nagging feelings that "She might be...". I don't want to get too arrogant and get burned, but I don't want flipflop around either. Arg.

But i cant negate that the overall reception of this chapter was really bad no one is on a mood to discuss about the chapter, not even people who does not ship.
there already 3-4 days without a new post about Naruto 615 and moreover just complaints everywhere about naruto's story.

Why is this relevant? So a lot of people didn't like it. What is that supposed to mean? Kishi is not going to go back if he truly has planned NH just because some people on the internet didn't like the idea. I don't mean this to be sharp or snarky post. I just don't understand what you want to achieve by mentioning the reviews. Does it make you feel better about NH development if a lot of people disliked it, too?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 30 December 2012 - 02:10 AM.

[Candleguy]

I don't necessarily believe Sakura has to be shown as jealous to reveal anything

Naruto hasn't shown signs of jealousy since part 1 and he firmly believes Sakura love Sasuke and he kept on liking her.


I don't expects Sakura to show any jealously,e specially since that would pretty much end speculation right there. Sakura's feelings if any won't be revealed until/unless she rejects Sasuke/the idea of being in love with Sasuke

Edited by Candleguy, 30 December 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I don't necessarily believe Sakura has to be shown as jealous to reveal anything

Naruto hasn't shown signs of jealousy since part 1 and he firmly believes Sakura love Sasuke and he kept on liking her.


I don't expects Sakura to show any jealously,e specially since that would pretty much end speculation right there. Sakura's feelings if any won't be revealed until/unless she rejects Sasuke/the idea of being in love with Sasuke

Yeah, she doesn't *have to* show jealousy for NS to happen. But if she does show jealousy, that makes NS very close to canon, if not automatically canon. More time that goes by, though, that Sakura continues to not show in any way romantic feelings for Naruto, better for NH and SS.

[Candleguy]

Yeah, she doesn't *have to* show jealousy for NS to happen. But if she does show jealousy, that makes NS very close to canon, if not automatically canon. More time that goes by, though, that Sakura continues to not show in any way romantic feelings for Naruto, better for NH and SS.

I said in my post if she shows any jealousy it ends everything. Which why I don't think it'll happen.


Your assumption would only be correct if we assume

1) Sakura would embrace or reveal a total love for Naruto before fully confronting her feelings for Sasuke

2) Sakura will confront her feeling for Sasuke without Sasuke being around.

With Kish's melodramatic self it's reasonable to imagine every thing will be played off like status quo again until Sasuke shows up. And if Sakura has any kind of development coming since her entire subplot has become romance, it's going to be when Sasuke is her vicinity again.

SS will and must be officially confirmed before NH is set officially as canon

Edited by Candleguy, 30 December 2012 - 02:26 AM.

[Nefertieh]

IMO, Sakura does not have feelings for Naruto because:

-Sakura doesn't show any romantic feelings for Naruto or desire to be with him, such as jealousy when another woman is seen holding his hand. (My latter quote explained what I thought about all those "NS hints".)
-because Sakura is shown to still be in love with Sasuke, chapter 540.
-Kishi seems to be going for NH and I don't think he would make yet another love triangle this late in the game with about 100 or less chapters left. (And this is smt this thread debates all the way from page 1.)

- We haven't seen Sakura's reaction to Naruto and Hinata holding hands. We've only seen her reaction to Hinata's slap. Hinata didn't show any jealousy either when Sakura hugged Naruto, does that mean Hinata doesn't love Naruto?
- Sakura said she was in love with Sasuke, except the fact that her idealism doesn't match with reality hit her like a ton of bricks. That was the entire point of the whole scene.
- Even if Kishimoto makes naruhina canon, it doesn't mean Sakura's feelings would be left up in the air.

Oh, I have doubts about it. That's why I wrote " doesn't seem" there.

Your quote above this one seems to disagree.

If Sakura does not have feelings for Naruto, as I've now come pretty close to believe, then she would not be jealous of Hinata. If she has romantic feelings for him, she might react with jealousy. I think that NS is ambiguous enough to go either way for most of the manga but the recent chapters have given me a reason to believe more strongly than ever that Sakura's feelings for Naruto are going to be "revealed" as merely platonic.

Right, but following that logic, if Sakura doesn't have feelings for Naruto, wouldn't she be happy for Hinata to be with him? Why the closeup of her sad face? I personally believe that nobody is capable of being jealous of Hinata. If Sakura found out Hinata was in love with Sasuke, could you imagine that Sakura would be jealous of her?

Similarly, is Naruto jealous of Lee?

Edit. Right now I alternate between a very confident "Sakura is totally not in love with Naruto, and NH is so going to be canon" and the nagging feelings that "She might be...". I don't want to get too arrogant and get burned, but I don't want flipflop around either. Arg.

That's understandable.

Edited by Nefertieh, 30 December 2012 - 02:30 AM.

[Candleguy]

i should be more specific SS doesn't necessarily have to happen

But Sakura's feelings will be resolved/confirmed before Naruto's.

If she doesn't love Naruto whether or not she loves Sasuke. NH will be canon

Edited by Candleguy, 30 December 2012 - 02:36 AM.

[Don-kun]

Hey, everyone.
I just uploaded my latest video on Chapter 615. NaruSaku has nothing to worry about. Watch it and tell me what you think!

This is one of the best summary about the situation I have read so far it was really great.

My negative view, Naruto holding Hinata's hand to pass on his chakra on her, that observation could be right or it could be wrong but 80% of my common sense without any bias feels that the observation was wrong, the moment was intimate enough to know that there was something more.

Best point, Sakura panel and Naruto's behavior.

Again the video was great and the main reason why you like few other users post always gets praises from me, mainly because I cannot sense Bias towards you favorite pairing, but the holding hand was clearly Hinata's desire Kishi presented now and not at the end of the Manga, will it lead to something else, if Kishi stay consistence and does not keep forcing any event, then I will say not until Saku>>> Sasu and Sakura and Naruto feelings for each other are resolved and make clear to the readers.



@Moon
There wasn't any MinaKushi parallel with NH, it was the Kyuubi telling Naruto that like Neji's sacrifice his parents also did the same for him the day he born and actually told him that the die placing all their hopes on him.

@Other, I think I mention this before, if Kishi wanted to make NH canon then he could do that now, Naruto told the Kyuubi that he wanted to protect his comrade and his close friends, there was another opportunity for him to single out Hinata, while NH hint was clearly romantic, NaruSaku 450 hint was a lot more clear since we did focus on Sakura's behavior not Naruto's, and in Naruto case his few tender smiles are for Sakura and Sakura ones are only for Naruto, Naruto never blushed or had any unusual behavior around Hinata like the time with Gaara in chapter 281 and he still gave her that side way view.
NH still have chances, but is not defined yet.

@The ones debating with a SS fan here, you user have a lot of energy, or you are really boring wanting something to do, my debate are normally:
you
me
you
me
you
me
you
me
OK agree to disagree have a nice day.

Then you people wonder why a SS fan will keep posting here? It's because you are replaying, I can bet anything that the user will never agree with NS view and NS will never agree with SS view.

Anyway, you people gets my respect for your long patience.

Edited by Don-kun, 30 December 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[dl316bh]

No shippers ever see what the others are going on about.

Whether they want to do it or not, they seem to selectively interpret the work to see things how they want them.

I've long been a part of a fandom centered around a pairing in a team book. Back when the run first started, people started going "hey, look at all these hints, compare that with how the writer usually does things". People who immediately hated the idea tried their best to shoot it down. Right up until the two locked lips on panel, they feverishly denied anything. After it did happen, I saw at least one person put pictures and video of them tearing the issue up and throwing it in the trash.

This is how shipping tends to work. I've been around here a while, and it basically comes down to the same arguments. Everything that needs to be said basically has been. What we're down to here is a bunch of people going on to Poison and him refuting with his take and honestly, no one is going to be right - or "win" - until someone locks lips or the manga ends with no pairings.

So! I recommend a subject change. About how great Liam Neeson is. Or Batman. Take your pick on which of my heroes we should talk about. =P

Kidding. But seriously. You guys are going in a loop. There's going to be some circlejerking going around to lift spirits - this chapter was, no matter how you see it, a blow to morale here - and probably some in other fandoms to convince themselves this was undeniable proof. It's a cycle. No one is going to convince the other; when's the last time you saw someone go "wow, your logic is unassailable, I submit to you and have changed my preference accordingly, good work"?

That's right. Never.

Seriously thought if this continues I'm going to get some popcorn and put on the Benny Hill theme as I watch everybody flail around with their arguments.

Edited by dl316bh, 30 December 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

- We haven't seen Sakura's reaction to Naruto and Hinata holding hands. We've only seen her reaction to Hinata's slap. Hinata didn't show any jealousy either when Sakura hugged Naruto, does that mean Hinata doesn't love Naruto?
- Sakura said she was in love with Sasuke, except the fact that her idealism doesn't match with reality hit her like a ton of bricks. That was the entire point of the whole scene.
- Even if Kishimoto makes naruhina canon, it doesn't mean Sakura's feelings would be left up in the air.

-Hinata's lack of jealousy could be an indication that she herself does not perceive there to be anything romantic between Naruto and Sakura. Sakura might of course view NH handholding in the same way.
-That's your theory on the point of the scene. Could be it was there to remind the readers and confirm her romantic feelings for Sasuke are still there. This is a serialized comic, one chapter per week. Things that happened over 60 chapters, over a year ago might not be something the casual readers even remember that well.
-If NH becomes canon in a few chapters, I find it hard to believe Kishi writing Sakura to be in love with Naruto. Why complicate the plot at this point when he is finally resolving major storyarcs and character storylines and preparing to end the whole comic?

Right, but following that logic, if Sakura doesn't have feelings for Naruto, wouldn't she be happy for Hinata to be with him? Why the closeup of her sad face? I personally believe that nobody is capable of being jealous of Hinata. If Sakura found out Hinata was in love with Sasuke, could you imagine that Sakura would be jealous of her?

There are also a close ups on Kakashi's and Obito's faces, too. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/615/8 Are they secretly into Naruto, too? I saw an SS theory that Hinata's speech about not letting your comrades die and not giving up on your beliefs will make Sakura angst about her own involvement in trying to kill Sasuke. There are multiple options why Kishi decided to show Sakura's face. Could I see Sakura jealous of some other woman of Sasuke's? Yes, I could. There are different shades of jealousy. From "God I hate that b*tch for taking my man!" to "I'm so happy for her but I wish it was me..." I can easily see the latter.

dl316bh, I'm a girl. Personally I'm going to bed now. I think you are right. This is doomed to go in circles until we get some new material. And then we will go in new circles with next chapter's contents. On and on.

Except

no one is going to be right - or "win"

I am always right. Feel free to worship my throne.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 30 December 2012 - 02:56 AM.

[4000TMNT]

I wonder did anyone read the Japanese text of 615, was it accurate as mangastream and manga panda translated.

[dl316bh]

dl316bh, I'm a girl.

Oh... uhh... well... I'm sorry to... I mean...

LOOK, A BEAR!

*flees*

I am always right. Feel free to worship my throne.

*returns*

Hey, HEY! Stop that! Stop stealing my thing! I'm the smug one who believes he's always right around here! That's my schtick!

THIEF. SCHTICK THIEF. STEALING MY ROUTINE.

Edited by dl316bh, 30 December 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[Nefertieh]

Just last night I'd a strange dream but fun. I was dreaming to be a place, where there're the best mangakas of this era. There were Oda, Kubot, Togashi, Kishimoto, Inoue, Urasawa, Miura and still others. They were sitting in front of me and I was on a stage with a person who was interviewing me. This persone made me questions about my opinions on the works of these mangakas who were present here. I review them fairly positive, especially regarding One Piece, HxH and Urasawa's works. Then comes the turn of Naruto, when the person who's interviewing me makes this question "And what do you think about Naruto?"... Well, I dreamed that I gave vaguely the anwser saying "Naruto?... Well, It slipped through my mind." And then i glanced funny Kishimoto, who was totally shocked and had a princeless face.

What a fun dream, I would that become a reality.

That made me smile.

[kirabook]

I've been questioning something recently.... has Hinata really developed at all? It seems like unless she's in a do or die situation (or Naruto is) she won't do very much to confront him directly. Then again, there hasn't been very many situations to 'confront' him (except the x-amount of time after the Pein arc to go up and talk to him) but it seems like Hinata never has a real role in anything unless it involves the near death of Naruto.

It seems like, she's never able to work up that courage to do things with him unless he's in a deathly situation. She only grows if she has to, it's always rushed and sudden, never smooth or built up.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Oh... uhh... well... I'm sorry to... I mean...

LOOK, A BEAR!

*flees*


*returns*

Hey, HEY! Stop that! Stop stealing my thing! I'm the smug one who believes he's always right around here! That's my schtick!

THIEF. SCHTICK THIEF. STEALING MY ROUTINE.

Like Hinata stealing Sakura's role and her man, I came, I saw, I liked and I took.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 30 December 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Question for everyone: What else could there be to the hand holding that you guys are worrying about?

[Qia]

I've been questioning something recently.... has Hinata really developed at all? It seems like unless she's in a do or die situation (or Naruto is) she won't do very much to confront him directly. Then again, there hasn't been very many situations to 'confront' him (except the x-amount of time after the Pein arc to go up and talk to him) but it seems like Hinata never has a real role in anything unless it involves the near death of Naruto.

It seems like, she's never able to work up that courage to do things with him unless he's in a deathly situation. She only grows if she has to, it's always rushed and sudden, never smooth or built up.

I'd also like to add that she could have went up to him after he was done talking to the rest about Sasuke or something....but no.

Question for everyone: What else could there be to the hand holding that you guys are worrying about?

It never worried me tbh. Like with Naruto's thoughts and expression, it came out really platonic on his part. Even with Hinata there was no mention of her loving him or about the confession. The only time we were reminded she has those feelings are with the Naruto's hands are so soft part. Other than that, nada. What WILL bother me though is if it continues like that for the next chapter, where they're still holding hands after a while, because then the just giving chakra thing is out.

Edited by Qia, 30 December 2012 - 03:07 AM.

[Don-kun]

I wonder did anyone read the Japanese text of 615, was it accurate as mangastream and manga panda translated.

Give up men, this was clearly a NH moment let's try not to behave like the other fandom trying to downplay or deny the things we don't like or refuse to accept.

We might or may not get a major NS moment lets try to hope for that, or even see Sakura sad that she might lose Naruto's affection, not jealousy because she does not deserve to feel that way, it will only makes her look selfish.
Sadness, despoilment on herself and a desire to be happy for Naruto is the best Sakura>>>Naruto hint we can get in order to give us that hope that NS chances are still high and best of all selfless.

[4000TMNT]

Question for everyone: What else could there be to the hand holding that you guys are worrying about?

It could be when Naruto tighten his hand on Hinata's hand but thats about it.