31719 replies to this topic

[Nar123]

 

Nah, Kakashi brought it up in 693 and that chapter before Kaguya popped up (Sasuke trying to kill Sakura).

Every arc after Sasuke gains the MS is pratically standalone with little to no follow up, the reason is because kishi is an awful storyteller and the true MVP bailed out (Yahagi)

[Nar123]

Lol no wonder Sammy from deviantart almost took a week until page 20 came out because it turns out she also did Page 21 too:

 

 

Page 21:

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: OMG KAKASHI (Statue) UNMASKED!! 

 

This ending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>trash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kishi's "ending"

Edited by Nar123, 26 March 2015 - 12:49 AM.

[Liu bie]

Lol no wonder Sammy from deviantart almost took a week until page 20 came out because it turns out she also did Page 21 too:

 

 

Page 21:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: OMG KAKASHI (Statue) UNMASKED!! 

He is mask, see the line, oh man I hope she can ended before the April 3rd. So she doesn't feel down.

[LuckyChi7]

He is mask, see the line, oh man I hope she can ended before the April 3rd. So she doesn't feel down.

 

 

Wow now I feel like an idiot 

 

 

It's possible that Sammy could get this finished by then. Although I'm not even sure how many more pages she's got left because it still feels like it's in the middle.  

Edited by LuckyChi7, 26 March 2015 - 12:57 AM.

[WhyDoIWatch]

Lol no wonder Sammy from deviantart almost took a week until page 20 came out because it turns out she also did Page 21 too:

 

 

Page 21:

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: OMG KAKASHI (Statue) UNMASKED!! 

lol Kakashi 

[Tiller]

How is he "spoiled" his life sucked the most,

Sasuke Uchiha is a spoiled arrogant brat. Which way do you want to look at it? Before we learned Itachi was a "good guy" or after?
 
Before: After having a horrible life experience, the hope of redeeming his clan into a once again honorable ninja clan is placed on the shoulders of Sasuke Uchiha. For this he is beloved by all. His elders and teachers respect his talent and hope he can regain his families former honor, the girls his age all love him madly simply because he looks "hot" and is "dark and brooding", well most of the guys (beside Naruto and Shikamaru) his age admire him and try to be friends with him. What does he do? Does he adapt the viewpoint of a Mr. Bruce Wayne and tries to protect all life as it exsit no matter how crooked the bad guy in order to prove the point that every life matters? Does he take the chance he has presented to him, and use his natural talents and the good will placed on him by the village in order to rebuild the strength of the Uchiha in order to make the world a better place where no one will ever have to suffer like he did again?
 
NOPE, NOT "PURE" SASUKE" HE NEEDS "REVENGE" IN ORDER TO FEEL LIKE A MAN.
 
Sasuke chooses to close himself off from every person, except for those who can strength him in order for him to get revenge on Itachi! Rejecting the opportunity to grow within his community he instead uses people when it is in his interest to to further his goal. Why does he try bonding wit Naruto and give him food? Because if they don't they will fail, and Sasuke's goal to "kill a certain person" won't be achieved. When does he start getting pissy? When someone besides himself start showing more potential, and therefor reminds him that he isn't as strong enough to kill his brother, so he run away with a man who he knows wants to take his body.
 
In other words Sasuke adopts the Dr. Doom viewpoint of life. He will use people for his own goals, and in the end will crush anyone in his way. Sakura attempts to show him some human kindness he throws a hissy fit because Naruto maybe stronger then him. So he runs away with a terrorist, tries killing him, and later assembles a team of misfits that he will tolerate in his presence just as long as they are useful to him.
 
After we learn Itachi is a ninja god the dynamic changes slightly. Now Sasuke learns that the Uchiha were power hungry asshats who loved the leaf village so much that they had to kill it, and take it over (Sasuke would later do the same thing with Sakura it seems). If Sasuke was a mentally stable person, he may have taken pause.
 
Mentally Stable Sasuke (AKA a character that never existed): "Wait... if Itachi did all this to save the Leaf and is even now served them trying to protect the goodness of the village system. Instead of being a self centered kitten head worried only about my own emotions and feelings, perhaps I should change course now... yeah. I'll return to the Leaf and start working in the system in order to bring the terrorist down! Hell maybe it's time to rise the Uchiha flag again, and show defiantly that we will not be used like before! That now we stand for the rights of all people, and we will fight to the death to defend that! I mean I could even take my brothers places as a covert agent, and bring down the threat from within! Yeah! That's it! I could save thousands.... no millions of lives! Itachi taught me that peace must be defend above all else, and we must now crush those who wish to destroy us all! After all Itachi choose to KILL OUR ENTIRE FAMILY, WHO WERE TRYING TO DESTROY THE VILLAGE AND CAUSE ANOTHER WORLD WAR, IN ORDER TO AVOIDED UNNEEDED VIOLENCE IN GENERAL, AND TO PROTECT ME PERSONALLY HIMSELF. PLACING HIS HOPES FOR THE FUTURE OF THE FAMILY ON MY SHOULDERS! Surely knowing all of that it's in my best interest to become a better person, and a protector of the free will of all of mankind."
 
Is this what Sasuke did....
 
NOPE, NOT "PURE" SASUKE" HE NEEDS "REVENGE" IN ORDER TO FEEL LIKE A MAN.
 
Instead Sasuke now declares that he loves his brother and will make the Leaf pay for what they did to him.... he then further continues to murder people and kidnaps people and becomes a full grown terrorist. He even starts wearing the gown unironically. He then tries murdering the world leaders, and is one of the major cataylyst for expanding the World War that his brother tried to stop. Eventualy he kind of came around.... but only so he could become a fascist dictator who ruled the world with an iron fist so they would do exactly as they told him.
 
"If you live to see the dawn it's only because I allow it!" The basic idea behind Sasuke's ideal of "peace" threw totalitarian oppression.
 
Now all of this would have been fine, had kittenmoto simply kept Sasuke a villian, a tortured soul who had to be taken out by the hero the same way Old Yeller had to be shot... because they bother are rabid, irrational, and dangerous beast.
 
But kittenmoto doesn't think Sasuke is evil... He thinks that being a murdering, terrorist, wannabe fascist dictator is a positive quality for all young men to emulate, hell you even get the girl in the end..... even if you never seemed interested in her. In fact so long as you are selfishly following your heart Kishidumbo will even say your "pure". Yeah... Pure... a pure head case who should have died on the battlefield finally allowing revenge to consume what remains of his cursed soul.
 
 

and looks are irrelevant the same could be said about Sakura/Naruto/Kakashi.

 
Uh no. Sakura is given kitten about being "ugly" even now, to the point where Kishidumbass thinks that the only way to make her popular is to make her "movie star gorgeous". Naruto is never commented on being good looking by his pears, and Kakashi is mostly famous for wearing a mask. It is Sasuke alone who is loved in and out of universe because he is "hot". Character talk about how hot he is, beta males fantasize about being hot and "brooding" like him, well female fans wish that he was real so they could "heal" him... usually by using chapters in that ancient healing tome the Kama Sutra.
 

I think you got what Kishi said wrong, he says that Sasuke is neither good nor bad he's pure.

 
There is nothing good about Sasuke. He is an evil jackass who constantly put his desires above not only the wants and needs of others, but indeed he but his desires above the values of other peoples lives. Apply the majority of what people would consider a mainstream level of what is "right" and "good" and most people would clearly state the Sasuke is a villain, is evil, and has no redeeming quality beyond the fact that he is "hot" and a "bad boy".
 
I mean just take a list of what he did in the story and compare it to most comic book supervillians:
 
1. Rejected his friends, and the very social network he grew up with in order to achieve an evil selfish goal. In this case "revenge".
2. Learned under the wings of the last generations greatest known criminal threat.
3.Used said former greatest criminal threat and betrayed him in order to "out villain" him, showing that he was the dangerous one all along.
4. Gathers a group of underlings who sole purpose of existence is so they can help him reach his goal.
5.Murder people.
6. Terrorize major government agencies.
7. Attempts to assassinate multiple heads of state.
8. Attempts to kill childhood friends multiple times.
9. Mentally tortures people so they do what he wants them to. Including give them information he wants for his goal, or to simply get them out of the way so they don't have to deal with them anymore.
10. Join a "super villain team" possibly even wearing the team uniform, well at the same time planning to double cross your new allies in order to get what you want.
11. Betray super villain team.
12. Team up with good guy in order to get "bigger threat" out of the way that you couldn't beat on your own.
13. When everyone celebrates the defeat of the "big bad" suddenly spring your trap on the good guy.
14. In Bond like fashion, tell the good guy your evil plan well he stares at you.
15. Attempt to kill good guy/former best friend in order to take over the world, setting yourself up as a fascist military dictator.
 
Somehow after this Kishimoto thought adding "steal the hero's gf" would be good, because he's a dumbass who doesn't understand basic story structure.
 

Agreed if Naruto didn't win Sasuke would continue but the same could be said about Gaara........

 
Gaara was a weaponized human being, that was consciously used by his village in order to prepare for the next ninja war. He had no one in his life and instead choose to kill in order to feel. His village used this to their advantage. Later after Naruto beat him Gaara learned a different path, one that he had never known about before. He learned that the was something beyond the idea of "survival of the fittest".
 
Sasuke understood right from wrong from the beginning, was glorified by his village, and was expected to become a great future leader who would once again rebuild the Uchiha clan into something great. His teachers spoiled him, girls his age adored him, and most of the guys tried to get him to be their best friend. Instead he rejected the bonds he created with his friends, and the social institutions he grew up with in his village, turned to evil and eventually tried to take over the world and enslave the entire human race. He always knew what he was doing was wrong but never cared because it's what HE wanted. He also was never rejected by anybody, indeed the village opened their arms to him, and he had his pick of friends and gfs at his fingertips if he bothered to stop thinking like a selfish jackass for five minutes.
 
 

Bolded- He isn't overrated, he has the best development in the series, his ideals were interesting and second only to Madara,

 
Madara and Sasuke are both stereotypical jackasses who's views and ideas have been express by megalomaniacs in fiction since at least from the time of Shakespear's Richard III (quoted below) probably earlier.
 

And therefore since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.: Richard III By William Shakespeare.

 
Much like Richard III, Madara and Sasuke are willing to turn the world to kitten if they can not get what they want. Their lives were horrible therefor they will bring the entire world to heel on THEIR terms. In the west this trope is best shown by Dr. Doom, who's fascist run country of Latveria is a model place of a nation. There is no crime, no poverty, no problems. No one argues, no one debates, no ideas are exchanged. Doom rules with an iron fist, the people are told what to do then they do it. With all the humanity of an ant colony.
 

he isn't stereotypical

 
Yes he is. He's Julius Cesar without the charm or education. He's Genghis Khan without the history. He's Adolph Hitler without the funny mustache. He's Joesph Stalin without the five year plan.
 

if anyone is, its Naruto who is Jesus with his all forgiving self and always smiling.

 
I never said Naruto wasn't a stereotype. If anything though he's a failed one. He doesn't even properly grow up into an adult protagonist, he doesn't overcome anything. All he does is punch the villain really hard, makes Sasuke promise him that he loves him or else he'll fight him again, and then ends up marrying a zombie eyed girl and abuses his children.
 
Had Naruto actually been a traditional hero one of the lessons he would have had to learn would have been the difficulty of being an adult. He would have had to kill Sasuke had he wanted to completely become a leader. Much as Odysseus was cursed to suffer for twenty years before he came back to his kingdom, reclaiming his throne triumphantly by stringing his bow, a bow that only a king could string. Symbolizing how Odysseus had reclaimed his manhood after a long adventure, and had threw suffering been shown worthy to take the throne that he wanted so badly.
 
Naruto? Well.. he punched Sasuke, made him promise to be a good boy from know on, gave up on the woman he loved, screwed a zombie eyed girl, pushed two of his former teachers out of the way because they were in the office he wants to hold, and became an alcoholic who hits his kids.
 

Why wouldn't he just kill her off if he didn't care for her?

 
He tried that. Multiple times. The last thing he did before that was take Naruto away well Sakura went falling to her doom into a lava pit. He didn't even look back to see if she was there. He likely didn't outright kill her with his bare hands in front of Naruto because he needed Naruto's strength to beat the woman who was in his way at the time. Knowing his former friend he knew that had he killed Sakura in front of him, Naruto wouldn't have helped him. So instead he mentally tortured her and knocked her out. He didn't just put her under a sleeping spell... no not "PURE" Sasuke. Oh no. He made her feel his hand pushing threw he chest, ripping her flesh, bones, and muscles apart. What a sweet heart Sasuke is eh?
 

I don't think that's selfish but rather close minded by thinking that the only way peace is attained is with his ideals.

 
Peace is a useless prison without liberty. Sasuke wanted nothing more then to put the world at his feet, well he stood on top doing for the people of the world what HE knows is best for them, right down to their own personal choices. No free choice, no free will, not even the ability to think for yourself. A private hell best shown in that classic Twilight Zone Episode It's a Good Life.

 

 

"That's a good thing you did Sasuke. Enslaving the world. It's a good thing. You always do good things. It's a good life Sasuke, you've done real good. Your a good man Sasuke. We all love you. It's a good thing you've done."

 

But hey at least Sakura and Hinata got the kitten they were suppose to. Great Ending Kishimoto!

[trang95]

Sasuke Uchiha is a spoiled arrogant brat. Which way do you want to look at it? Before we learned Itachi was a "good guy" or after?
 
Before: After having a horrible life experience, the hope of redeeming his clan into a once again honorable ninja clan is placed on the shoulders of Sasuke Uchiha. For this he is beloved by all. His elders and teachers respect his talent and hope he can regain his families former honor, the girls his age all love him madly simply because he looks "hot" and is "dark and brooding", well most of the guys (beside Naruto and Shikamaru) his age admire him and try to be friends with him. What does he do? Does he adapt the viewpoint of a Mr. Bruce Wayne and tries to protect all life as it exsit no matter how crooked the bad guy in order to prove the point that every life matters? Does he take the chance he has presented to him, and use his natural talents and the good will placed on him by the village in order to rebuild the strength of the Uchiha in order to make the world a better place where no one will ever have to suffer like he did again?
 
NOPE, NOT "PURE" SASUKE" HE NEEDS "REVENGE" IN ORDER TO FEEL LIKE A MAN.
 
Sasuke chooses to close himself off from every person, except for those who can strength him in order for him to get revenge on Itachi! Rejecting the opportunity to grow within his community he instead uses people when it is in his interest to to further his goal. Why does he try bonding wit Naruto and give him food? Because if they don't they will fail, and Sasuke's goal to "kill a certain person" won't be achieved. When does he start getting pissy? When someone besides himself start showing more potential, and therefor reminds him that he isn't as strong enough to kill his brother, so he run away with a man who he knows wants to take his body.
 
In other words Sasuke adopts the Dr. Doom viewpoint of life. He will use people for his own goals, and in the end will crush anyone in his way. Sakura attempts to show him some human kindness he throws a hissy fit because Naruto maybe stronger then him. So he runs away with a terrorist, tries killing him, and later assembles a team of misfits that he will tolerate in his presence just as long as they are useful to him.
 
After we learn Itachi is a ninja god the dynamic changes slightly. Now Sasuke learns that the Uchiha were power hungry asshats who loved the leaf village so much that they had to kill it, and take it over (Sasuke would later do the same thing with Sakura it seems). If Sasuke was a mentally stable person, he may have taken pause.
 
Mentally Stable Sasuke (AKA a character that never existed): "Wait... if Itachi did all this to save the Leaf and is even now served them trying to protect the goodness of the village system. Instead of being a self centered kitten head worried only about my own emotions and feelings, perhaps I should change course now... yeah. I'll return to the Leaf and start working in the system in order to bring the terrorist down! Hell maybe it's time to rise the Uchiha flag again, and show defiantly that we will not be used like before! That now we stand for the rights of all people, and we will fight to the death to defend that! I mean I could even take my brothers places as a covert agent, and bring down the threat from within! Yeah! That's it! I could save thousands.... no millions of lives! Itachi taught me that peace must be defend above all else, and we must now crush those who wish to destroy us all! After all Itachi choose to KILL OUR ENTIRE FAMILY, WHO WERE TRYING TO DESTROY THE VILLAGE AND CAUSE ANOTHER WORLD WAR, IN ORDER TO AVOIDED UNNEEDED VIOLENCE IN GENERAL, AND TO PROTECT ME PERSONALLY HIMSELF. PLACING HIS HOPES FOR THE FUTURE OF THE FAMILY ON MY SHOULDERS! Surely knowing all of that it's in my best interest to become a better person, and a protector of the free will of all of mankind."
 
Is this what Sasuke did....
 
NOPE, NOT "PURE" SASUKE" HE NEEDS "REVENGE" IN ORDER TO FEEL LIKE A MAN.
 
Instead Sasuke now declares that he loves his brother and will make the Leaf pay for what they did to him.... he then further continues to murder people and kidnaps people and becomes a full grown terrorist. He even starts wearing the gown unironically. He then tries murdering the world leaders, and is one of the major cataylyst for expanding the World War that his brother tried to stop. Eventualy he kind of came around.... but only so he could become a fascist dictator who ruled the world with an iron fist so they would do exactly as they told him.
 
"If you live to see the dawn it's only because I allow it!" The basic idea behind Sasuke's ideal of "peace" threw totalitarian oppression.
 
Now all of this would have been fine, had kittenmoto simply kept Sasuke a villian, a tortured soul who had to be taken out by the hero the same way Old Yeller had to be shot... because they bother are rabid, irrational, and dangerous beast.
 
But kittenmoto doesn't think Sasuke is evil... He thinks that being a murdering, terrorist, wannabe fascist dictator is a positive quality for all young men to emulate, hell you even get the girl in the end..... even if you never seemed interested in her. In fact so long as you are selfishly following your heart Kishidumbo will even say your "pure". Yeah... Pure... a pure head case who should have died on the battlefield finally allowing revenge to consume what remains of his cursed soul.
 
 

 
Uh no. Sakura is given kitten about being "ugly" even now, to the point where Kishidumbass thinks that the only way to make her popular is to make her "movie star gorgeous". Naruto is never commented on being good looking by his pears, and Kakashi is mostly famous for wearing a mask. It is Sasuke alone who is loved in and out of universe because he is "hot". Character talk about how hot he is, beta males fantasize about being hot and "brooding" like him, well female fans wish that he was real so they could "heal" him... usually by using chapters in that ancient healing tome the Kama Sutra.
 

 
There is nothing good about Sasuke. He is an evil jackass who constantly put his desires above not only the wants and needs of others, but indeed he but his desires above the values of other peoples lives. Apply the majority of what people would consider a mainstream level of what is "right" and "good" and most people would clearly state the Sasuke is a villain, is evil, and has no redeeming quality beyond the fact that he is "hot" and a "bad boy".
 
I mean just take a list of what he did in the story and compare it to most comic book supervillians:
 
1. Rejected his friends, and the very social network he grew up with in order to achieve an evil selfish goal. In this case "revenge".
2. Learned under the wings of the last generations greatest known criminal threat.
3.Used said former greatest criminal threat and betrayed him in order to "out villain" him, showing that he was the dangerous one all along.
4. Gathers a group of underlings who sole purpose of existence is so they can help him reach his goal.
5.Murder people.
6. Terrorize major government agencies.
7. Attempts to assassinate multiple heads of state.
8. Attempts to kill childhood friends multiple times.
9. Mentally tortures people so they do what he wants them to. Including give them information he wants for his goal, or to simply get them out of the way so they don't have to deal with them anymore.
10. Join a "super villain team" possibly even wearing the team uniform, well at the same time planning to double cross your new allies in order to get what you want.
11. Betray super villain team.
12. Team up with good guy in order to get "bigger threat" out of the way that you couldn't beat on your own.
13. When everyone celebrates the defeat of the "big bad" suddenly spring your trap on the good guy.
14. In Bond like fashion, tell the good guy your evil plan well he stares at you.
15. Attempt to kill good guy/former best friend in order to take over the world, setting yourself up as a fascist military dictator.
 
Somehow after this Kishimoto thought adding "steal the hero's gf" would be good, because he's a dumbass who doesn't understand basic story structure.
 

 
Gaara was a weaponized human being, that was consciously used by his village in order to prepare for the next ninja war. He had no one in his life and instead choose to kill in order to feel. His village used this to their advantage. Later after Naruto beat him Gaara learned a different path, one that he had never known about before. He learned that the was something beyond the idea of "survival of the fittest".
 
Sasuke understood right from wrong from the beginning, was glorified by his village, and was expected to become a great future leader who would once again rebuild the Uchiha clan into something great. His teachers spoiled him, girls his age adored him, and most of the guys tried to get him to be their best friend. Instead he rejected the bonds he created with his friends, and the social institutions he grew up with in his village, turned to evil and eventually tried to take over the world and enslave the entire human race. He always knew what he was doing was wrong but never cared because it's what HE wanted. He also was never rejected by anybody, indeed the village opened their arms to him, and he had his pick of friends and gfs at his fingertips if he bothered to stop thinking like a selfish jackass for five minutes.
 
 

 
Madara and Sasuke are both stereotypical jackasses who's views and ideas have been express by megalomaniacs in fiction since at least from the time of Shakespear's Richard III (quoted below) probably earlier.
 

 
Much like Richard III, Madara and Sasuke are willing to turn the world to kitten if they can not get what they want. Their lives were horrible therefor they will bring the entire world to heel on THEIR terms. In the west this trope is best shown by Dr. Doom, who's fascist run country of Latveria is a model place of a nation. There is no crime, no poverty, no problems. No one argues, no one debates, no ideas are exchanged. Doom rules with an iron fist, the people are told what to do then they do it. With all the humanity of an ant colony.
 

 
Yes he is. He's Julius Cesar without the charm or education. He's Genghis Khan without the history. He's Adolph Hitler without the funny mustache. He's Joesph Stalin without the five year plan.
 

 
I never said Naruto wasn't a stereotype. If anything though he's a failed one. He doesn't even properly grow up into an adult protagonist, he doesn't overcome anything. All he does is punch the villain really hard, makes Sasuke promise him that he loves him or else he'll fight him again, and then ends up marrying a zombie eyed girl and abuses his children.
 
Had Naruto actually been a traditional hero one of the lessons he would have had to learn would have been the difficulty of being an adult. He would have had to kill Sasuke had he wanted to completely become a leader. Much as Odysseus was cursed to suffer for twenty years before he came back to his kingdom, reclaiming his throne triumphantly by stringing his bow, a bow that only a king could string. Symbolizing how Odysseus had reclaimed his manhood after a long adventure, and had threw suffering been shown worthy to take the throne that he wanted so badly.
 
Naruto? Well.. he punched Sasuke, made him promise to be a good boy from know on, gave up on the woman he loved, screwed a zombie eyed girl, pushed two of his former teachers out of the way because they were in the office he wants to hold, and became an alcoholic who hits his kids.
 

 
He tried that. Multiple times. The last thing he did before that was take Naruto away well Sakura went falling to her doom into a lava pit. He didn't even look back to see if she was there. He likely didn't outright kill her with his bare hands in front of Naruto because he needed Naruto's strength to beat the woman who was in his way at the time. Knowing his former friend he knew that had he killed Sakura in front of him, Naruto wouldn't have helped him. So instead he mentally tortured her and knocked her out. He didn't just put her under a sleeping spell... no not "PURE" Sasuke. Oh no. He made her feel his hand pushing threw he chest, ripping her flesh, bones, and muscles apart. What a sweet heart Sasuke is eh?
 

 
Peace is a useless prison without liberty. Sasuke wanted nothing more then to put the world at his feet, well he stood on top doing for the people of the world what HE knows is best for them, right down to their own personal choices. No free choice, no free will, not even the ability to think for yourself. A private hell best shown in that classic Twilight Zone Episode It's a Good Life.

 

 

"That's a good thing you did Sasuke. Enslaving the world. It's a good thing. You always do good things. It's a good life Sasuke, you've done real good. Your a good man Sasuke. We all love you. It's a good thing you've done."

 

But hey at least Sakura and Hinata got the kitten they were suppose to. Great Ending Kishimoto!

And the award to today's longest post goes to Tiller.

[luffyq1]

Did you see how fast Sasuke was going to kill Kakashi, Kakashi only escaped due to Sasuke getting mad and trying to evolve his Susano'o, Sakura wouldn't stand a chance. Lee could go Eight Gates and dodge those arrows and kill Sasuke. Not to mention Sasuke dying by Sakura then would be just....

yes i saw, but that doesn't change the fact that sasuke would be dead if it weren't for sakura's emotions and the plot. also he was losing his eyesight, which made it that much easier to sneak up behind him.

 

 

 

as you can see, she easily sneaks up behind him, and his reaction time is definitely off. like i said before, sakura's emotions and the plot were sasuke's savior.

[AzureWaters]

By "pure" Kishi meant Sasuke can be easily manipulated by people / made to think a certain way with the right words. And he is easily influenced and used by those like Itachi, Obito, etc. He didn't mean it in a good way.
 

Oh yeah and he also called Sasuke selfish and only thinking about his own suffering and not what he causes other characters.

Edited by AzureWaters, 26 March 2015 - 01:12 AM.

[MangaReader]

By "pure" Kishi meant Sasuke can be easily manipulated by people / made to think a certain way with the right words. And he is easily influenced and used by those like Itachi, Obito, etc. He didn't mean it in a good way.
 

Oh yeah and he also called Sasuke selfish and only thinking about his own suffering and not what he causes other characters.

Naruto was the final person to manipulate him out of his ideals... which must not have been too strong to begin with

[Liu bie]

 

 

Wow now I feel like an idiot 

 

 

It's possible that Sammy could get this finished by then. Although I'm not even sure how many more pages she's got left because it still feels like it's in the middle.  

Probably you right, but you I think  she will end NS first and then Sasuhina, but who knows?

[Nar123]

I understand your point Tiller but I think sometimes your hate for Sasuke clouds your mind a little

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Nah, Kakashi brought it up in 693 and that chapter before Kaguya popped up (Sasuke trying to kill Sakura).

I don't recall.

Edit: That's pretty vague. It hardly has any value. Plus, why third-party? No first party as in Sakura do something about it? Every time I read another series, they do it. And it's not even like great writing. Just writing...

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 26 March 2015 - 01:23 AM.

[RyohkiFan]

This Sasuke conversation...    

[AzureWaters]

I don't recall.

Edit: That's pretty vague. It hardly has any value. Plus, why third-party? No first party as in Sakura do something about it? Every time I read another series, they do it. And it's not even like great writing. Just writing...

How was it vague? Kakashi says straight out that "Even though you tried to kill her, blah blah blah" 

Eh, if you count Karin having more value just because she confronted Sasuke on it (and then immediately swept it aside) then be my guest lol

[TouKen4Life3g]

How was it vague? Kakashi says straight out that "Even though you tried to kill her, blah blah blah" 

Eh, if you count Karin having more value just because she confronted Sasuke on it (and then immediately swept it aside) then be my guest lol

Who said I was using Karin. I couldn't care less. Anyway, I can use Sasuke and Sai Arc for all I want and people would buy it. Bottom line, that arc has no value but being redundant.

[Tiller]

I understand your point Tiller but I think sometimes your hate for Sasuke clouds your mind a little

The thing is I'd have no problem with the character if he was called a villain outright by the people that owned the property, and he was constantly used as such in the story. The fact that they try to make him a "hero" is one of the MAJOR problems with this story.

 

Having an understandable villain isn't a bad thing. Trying to make him into a "true hero" is. I'm so tired of hearing about how great and "deep" of a character he is. He never was great, he isn't a deep character, his motivations are shallow as hell, and his ideal of peace likely exist on the 7th layer of hell if the Divine Comedy is a divine warning written by human hands.

 

Sasuke's "fans" and Kishimoto really make me hate the character. How he was used in the end even makes it worse.

[luffyq1]

This Sasuke conversation...    

can't help but talk about him, he's so popular and good looking.

[Nar123]

How was it vague? Kakashi says straight out that "Even though you tried to kill her, blah blah blah" 

Eh, if you count Karin having more value just because she confronted Sasuke on it (and then immediately swept it aside) then be my guest lol

 

I think that what NS4L means was that most of the problems that were brought up on that arc were poorly or not addressed at all

 

An example was the Naruto/Sakura thing, that should have rocked their friendship, kishimoto failed to show them talking and patching things up

Funnily enough, a game did a better job than him

Edited by Nar123, 26 March 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[Gaara's hair]

This Sasuke conversation...    

You like it?

 

Sasuke Uchiha is a spoiled arrogant brat. Which way do you want to look at it? Before we learned Itachi was a "good guy" or after?
 
Before: After having a horrible life experience, the hope of redeeming his clan into a once again honorable ninja clan is placed on the shoulders of Sasuke Uchiha. For this he is beloved by all. His elders and teachers respect his talent and hope he can regain his families former honor, the girls his age all love him madly simply because he looks "hot" and is "dark and brooding", well most of the guys (beside Naruto and Shikamaru) his age admire him and try to be friends with him. What does he do? Does he adapt the viewpoint of a Mr. Bruce Wayne and tries to protect all life as it exsit no matter how crooked the bad guy in order to prove the point that every life matters? Does he take the chance he has presented to him, and use his natural talents and the good will placed on him by the village in order to rebuild the strength of the Uchiha in order to make the world a better place where no one will ever have to suffer like he did again?
 
NOPE, NOT "PURE" SASUKE" HE NEEDS "REVENGE" IN ORDER TO FEEL LIKE A MAN.
 
Sasuke chooses to close himself off from every person, except for those who can strength him in order for him to get revenge on Itachi! Rejecting the opportunity to grow within his community he instead uses people when it is in his interest to to further his goal. Why does he try bonding wit Naruto and give him food? Because if they don't they will fail, and Sasuke's goal to "kill a certain person" won't be achieved. When does he start getting pissy? When someone besides himself start showing more potential, and therefor reminds him that he isn't as strong enough to kill his brother, so he run away with a man who he knows wants to take his body.
 
In other words Sasuke adopts the Dr. Doom viewpoint of life. He will use people for his own goals, and in the end will crush anyone in his way. Sakura attempts to show him some human kindness he throws a hissy fit because Naruto maybe stronger then him. So he runs away with a terrorist, tries killing him, and later assembles a team of misfits that he will tolerate in his presence just as long as they are useful to him.
 
After we learn Itachi is a ninja god the dynamic changes slightly. Now Sasuke learns that the Uchiha were power hungry asshats who loved the leaf village so much that they had to kill it, and take it over (Sasuke would later do the same thing with Sakura it seems). If Sasuke was a mentally stable person, he may have taken pause.
 
Mentally Stable Sasuke (AKA a character that never existed): "Wait... if Itachi did all this to save the Leaf and is even now served them trying to protect the goodness of the village system. Instead of being a self centered kitten head worried only about my own emotions and feelings, perhaps I should change course now... yeah. I'll return to the Leaf and start working in the system in order to bring the terrorist down! Hell maybe it's time to rise the Uchiha flag again, and show defiantly that we will not be used like before! That now we stand for the rights of all people, and we will fight to the death to defend that! I mean I could even take my brothers places as a covert agent, and bring down the threat from within! Yeah! That's it! I could save thousands.... no millions of lives! Itachi taught me that peace must be defend above all else, and we must now crush those who wish to destroy us all! After all Itachi choose to KILL OUR ENTIRE FAMILY, WHO WERE TRYING TO DESTROY THE VILLAGE AND CAUSE ANOTHER WORLD WAR, IN ORDER TO AVOIDED UNNEEDED VIOLENCE IN GENERAL, AND TO PROTECT ME PERSONALLY HIMSELF. PLACING HIS HOPES FOR THE FUTURE OF THE FAMILY ON MY SHOULDERS! Surely knowing all of that it's in my best interest to become a better person, and a protector of the free will of all of mankind."
 
Is this what Sasuke did....
 
NOPE, NOT "PURE" SASUKE" HE NEEDS "REVENGE" IN ORDER TO FEEL LIKE A MAN.
 
Instead Sasuke now declares that he loves his brother and will make the Leaf pay for what they did to him.... he then further continues to murder people and kidnaps people and becomes a full grown terrorist. He even starts wearing the gown unironically. He then tries murdering the world leaders, and is one of the major cataylyst for expanding the World War that his brother tried to stop. Eventualy he kind of came around.... but only so he could become a fascist dictator who ruled the world with an iron fist so they would do exactly as they told him.
 
"If you live to see the dawn it's only because I allow it!" The basic idea behind Sasuke's ideal of "peace" threw totalitarian oppression.
 
Now all of this would have been fine, had kittenmoto simply kept Sasuke a villian, a tortured soul who had to be taken out by the hero the same way Old Yeller had to be shot... because they bother are rabid, irrational, and dangerous beast.
 
But kittenmoto doesn't think Sasuke is evil... He thinks that being a murdering, terrorist, wannabe fascist dictator is a positive quality for all young men to emulate, hell you even get the girl in the end..... even if you never seemed interested in her. In fact so long as you are selfishly following your heart Kishidumbo will even say your "pure". Yeah... Pure... a pure head case who should have died on the battlefield finally allowing revenge to consume what remains of his cursed soul.
 
 

 
Uh no. Sakura is given kitten about being "ugly" even now, to the point where Kishidumbass thinks that the only way to make her popular is to make her "movie star gorgeous". Naruto is never commented on being good looking by his pears, and Kakashi is mostly famous for wearing a mask. It is Sasuke alone who is loved in and out of universe because he is "hot". Character talk about how hot he is, beta males fantasize about being hot and "brooding" like him, well female fans wish that he was real so they could "heal" him... usually by using chapters in that ancient healing tome the Kama Sutra.
 

 
There is nothing good about Sasuke. He is an evil jackass who constantly put his desires above not only the wants and needs of others, but indeed he but his desires above the values of other peoples lives. Apply the majority of what people would consider a mainstream level of what is "right" and "good" and most people would clearly state the Sasuke is a villain, is evil, and has no redeeming quality beyond the fact that he is "hot" and a "bad boy".
 
I mean just take a list of what he did in the story and compare it to most comic book supervillians:
 
1. Rejected his friends, and the very social network he grew up with in order to achieve an evil selfish goal. In this case "revenge".
2. Learned under the wings of the last generations greatest known criminal threat.
3.Used said former greatest criminal threat and betrayed him in order to "out villain" him, showing that he was the dangerous one all along.
4. Gathers a group of underlings who sole purpose of existence is so they can help him reach his goal.
5.Murder people.
6. Terrorize major government agencies.
7. Attempts to assassinate multiple heads of state.
8. Attempts to kill childhood friends multiple times.
9. Mentally tortures people so they do what he wants them to. Including give them information he wants for his goal, or to simply get them out of the way so they don't have to deal with them anymore.
10. Join a "super villain team" possibly even wearing the team uniform, well at the same time planning to double cross your new allies in order to get what you want.
11. Betray super villain team.
12. Team up with good guy in order to get "bigger threat" out of the way that you couldn't beat on your own.
13. When everyone celebrates the defeat of the "big bad" suddenly spring your trap on the good guy.
14. In Bond like fashion, tell the good guy your evil plan well he stares at you.
15. Attempt to kill good guy/former best friend in order to take over the world, setting yourself up as a fascist military dictator.
 
Somehow after this Kishimoto thought adding "steal the hero's gf" would be good, because he's a dumbass who doesn't understand basic story structure.
 

 
Gaara was a weaponized human being, that was consciously used by his village in order to prepare for the next ninja war. He had no one in his life and instead choose to kill in order to feel. His village used this to their advantage. Later after Naruto beat him Gaara learned a different path, one that he had never known about before. He learned that the was something beyond the idea of "survival of the fittest".
 
Sasuke understood right from wrong from the beginning, was glorified by his village, and was expected to become a great future leader who would once again rebuild the Uchiha clan into something great. His teachers spoiled him, girls his age adored him, and most of the guys tried to get him to be their best friend. Instead he rejected the bonds he created with his friends, and the social institutions he grew up with in his village, turned to evil and eventually tried to take over the world and enslave the entire human race. He always knew what he was doing was wrong but never cared because it's what HE wanted. He also was never rejected by anybody, indeed the village opened their arms to him, and he had his pick of friends and gfs at his fingertips if he bothered to stop thinking like a selfish jackass for five minutes.
 
 

 
Madara and Sasuke are both stereotypical jackasses who's views and ideas have been express by megalomaniacs in fiction since at least from the time of Shakespear's Richard III (quoted below) probably earlier.
 

 
Much like Richard III, Madara and Sasuke are willing to turn the world to kitten if they can not get what they want. Their lives were horrible therefor they will bring the entire world to heel on THEIR terms. In the west this trope is best shown by Dr. Doom, who's fascist run country of Latveria is a model place of a nation. There is no crime, no poverty, no problems. No one argues, no one debates, no ideas are exchanged. Doom rules with an iron fist, the people are told what to do then they do it. With all the humanity of an ant colony.
 

 
Yes he is. He's Julius Cesar without the charm or education. He's Genghis Khan without the history. He's Adolph Hitler without the funny mustache. He's Joesph Stalin without the five year plan.
 

 
I never said Naruto wasn't a stereotype. If anything though he's a failed one. He doesn't even properly grow up into an adult protagonist, he doesn't overcome anything. All he does is punch the villain really hard, makes Sasuke promise him that he loves him or else he'll fight him again, and then ends up marrying a zombie eyed girl and abuses his children.
 
Had Naruto actually been a traditional hero one of the lessons he would have had to learn would have been the difficulty of being an adult. He would have had to kill Sasuke had he wanted to completely become a leader. Much as Odysseus was cursed to suffer for twenty years before he came back to his kingdom, reclaiming his throne triumphantly by stringing his bow, a bow that only a king could string. Symbolizing how Odysseus had reclaimed his manhood after a long adventure, and had threw suffering been shown worthy to take the throne that he wanted so badly.
 
Naruto? Well.. he punched Sasuke, made him promise to be a good boy from know on, gave up on the woman he loved, screwed a zombie eyed girl, pushed two of his former teachers out of the way because they were in the office he wants to hold, and became an alcoholic who hits his kids.
 

 
He tried that. Multiple times. The last thing he did before that was take Naruto away well Sakura went falling to her doom into a lava pit. He didn't even look back to see if she was there. He likely didn't outright kill her with his bare hands in front of Naruto because he needed Naruto's strength to beat the woman who was in his way at the time. Knowing his former friend he knew that had he killed Sakura in front of him, Naruto wouldn't have helped him. So instead he mentally tortured her and knocked her out. He didn't just put her under a sleeping spell... no not "PURE" Sasuke. Oh no. He made her feel his hand pushing threw he chest, ripping her flesh, bones, and muscles apart. What a sweet heart Sasuke is eh?
 

 
Peace is a useless prison without liberty. Sasuke wanted nothing more then to put the world at his feet, well he stood on top doing for the people of the world what HE knows is best for them, right down to their own personal choices. No free choice, no free will, not even the ability to think for yourself. A private hell best shown in that classic Twilight Zone Episode It's a Good Life.

 

 

"That's a good thing you did Sasuke. Enslaving the world. It's a good thing. You always do good things. It's a good life Sasuke, you've done real good. Your a good man Sasuke. We all love you. It's a good thing you've done."

 

But hey at least Sakura and Hinata got the kitten they were suppose to. Great Ending Kishimoto!