54216 replies to this topic

[mmrc27]

Why always give Naruto an image of saint? And why would Hinata be heartbreaking if Naruto had to reject her? If she really loves him, she would understand that she can't force him to love her,especially when he already loves someone else and she would respect his feelings. And I can't picture Naruto having troubles to reject her confession. I can see him explaining her that he consider her as a friends but nothing more and that he already loves Sakura. 

point taken...chill XD

[咲耶姫]

point taken...chill XD

Hope I wasn't too rude XD

[mmrc27]

Hope I wasn't too rude XD

nope... XD

[Akashi]

Yep, completely agree. Kishi has a pattern going. NH and SS aren't done yet not because of the feelings of the characters are resolved, but because Kishi still has a need to drive up reader suspense. The pairing strife will continue until the very end for suspense purposes, and I'm fully expecting an all-is-lost moment for NS before Kishi resolves it.

Exactly!

I really don’t understand why you say this. I read several posts of you where you say that Kishi keeps on giving us NS, NH, SS, NS, etc recently. But I don’t see it like this. I think you may see all this from a pairing perspective. When you say things like this, you make it look like Kishimoto is thinking about the word “pairing” while he’s doing a chapter with a “pairing” moment, you know like he were thinking “Oh, last time I did a NS moment, so now I’m going to do a NH one, and next one have to be a SS one.” In my opinion, there is no rule, if there was a rule like that, it would damage the story more than it already is, plus, we wouldn’t have the right to claim NS has more development than the other 2 anymore, since they would gain as much development.

tricksie's post above explains my position the best: it's mostly done for suspense purposes and for the sake of clarity. As simple as that.

And if this is an example of what you mean, it convinces me that I disagree with you. The first one is only a Sakura moment to me, there is no interaction with Sasuke, plus it’s a negative moment. It’s a Sakura development moment. Then, the fact that there is a NH moment followed by a NS one is because it follows the storyline. Hinata was on the spotlight at the NH moment time, and then Sakura was healing Naruto when there was the NS moment.

1. The love-letter shinobi moment counts as a SS moment because it reaffirms that Sakura still loves Sasuke. "(...) if that's somebody that you like, than they're bound to be a great person (...)". Plus, absence of direct interaction doesn't always mean it's not a moment (it could be an expression of one's feelings through their actions, etc..); 
2. Just because a character experiences negative feelings doesn't mean you shouldn't count it.

I’m not sure if I explained my opinion well enough, but to be more clear, I just think Kishi didn’t do NS, NH, SS, NS, NH, SS purposely, he didn’t certainly thought about pairing while writing the moments, he was surely thinking about his story and about his character’s development.

That's just ridiculous. Everything writers include in their story is done on purpose; if it wasn't, their works would be sloppy and inconsistent.. just a bunch of random stuff nobody would ever care to read. If Kishi leaves NH and SS without proper and realistic resolution, and focuses solely on NS this manga would turn into some crappy-written fanfic.

Before the war, Kishi never did this thing you say, so I think he’s currently doing it without thinking about it, he does it because he’s trying to close as much character as possible. But the thing is that Hinata and Sakura are centered on the same theme, which is love, so of course it will look like pairing moment, but in fact, while Hinata’s character is being closed with Naruto’s acknowledgment, Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke are beginning to regress while her feelings for Naruto are highlighted, like her worrying constantly.

 

Hope you understand my point of view on this matter. 

I never said this. I just used the most recent events as examples.

Another example of NH/SS -> NS pattern is:

• Pain Arc: Hinata's confession followed by NS hug and "thank-you";
• Five Kage Summit: Sakura's confession followed by her being unable to kill Sasuke (because of her feelings);

As for the rest of your post, I explained this above.

Edited by Tauriel, 05 January 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[咲耶姫]

Exactly!

tricksie's post above explains my position the best: it's mostly done for suspense purposes and for the sake of clarity. As simple as that.

1. The love-letter shinobi moment counts as a SS moment because it reaffirms that Sakura still loves Sasuke. "(...) if that's somebody that you like, than they're bound to be a great person (...)". Plus, absence of direct interaction doesn't always mean it's not a moment (it could be an expression of one's feelings through their actions, etc..); 
2. Just because a character experiences negative feelings doesn't mean you shouldn't count it.

That's just ridiculous. Everything writers include in their story is done on purpose; if it wasn't, their works would be sloppy and inconsistent.. just a bunch of random stuff nobody would ever care to read. If Kishi leaves NH and SS without proper and realistic resolution, and focuses solely on NS this manga would turn into some crappy-written fanfic.

I never said this. I just used the most recent events as examples.

Another example of NH/SS -> NS pattern is:

• Pain Arc: Hinata's confession followed by NS hug and "thank-you";
• Five Kage Summit: Sakura's confession followed by her being unable to kill Sasuke (because of her feelings);

As for the rest of your post, I explained this above.

 

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I didn't meant he didn't do the the pairing moment on puropose, I meant he didn't do the alternation of pairing moment on purpose. To me, he does every pairing moment as a personnal character development. Not because there is a certain non said rule of pairing after pairing moment that is keeping suspens. To me, the pairing moment are there to represent the character's growth, at the right moment. 

I'm conscious that this is maybe not what you meant. But I'm trying to explain my point of view concerning what I understood in your post. 

 

But I think that we just have different opinion on that matter, that's all. So I will stop to debate this matter, because I know I won't change my mind and I respect yours and I'm sure it's the same for you. 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Why always give Naruto an image of saint?

He's not a saint but however he tends to avoid those kind of confrontation, if he wasnt he would have responded Hinata's confession or talked with Sakura about the confession, he's oblivious and Naruto was never an active character on the romance subplot, he's totally passive and doesnt do anything for the subplot to move forward it's always Sakura.
 

And why would Hinata be heartbreaking if Naruto had to reject her?

I think she will be heartbroken to not be plain and stupid she has to accept it, she needs a resolution before that, until now she's clinging too much into Naruto to a point that it shows to the readers that being with Naruto is the only thing she cares or lives for, on this arc she hasnt shown any other objective aside from that, her only resolution was to be at Naruto's side.
This issue will only die if she acknowledges that she can walk with her two legs by herself without crediting her efforts to Naruto.
 

If she really loves him, she would understand that she can't force him to love her,especially when he already loves someone else and she would respect his feelings. And I can't picture Naruto having troubles to reject her confession.

 
That's the same resolution Naruto got on the ending of part 1 and yet the pairing isnt dead is it? But still even then he feels heartbroken on many moments like when he saw Sakura sad because of Sasuke, which is shown when is revealed that Sasuke joined Akatsuki, the issue is not about Hinata being or not being heartbroken it's about her moving on, because she will be heartbroken without a doubt just like Naruto was.
Even on Sakura's confession when he pratically spoils how he feels about the whole situation where he cant even bring to accept a confession from Sakura because he respect her feelings despite being heartbroken about the fact that she loves Sasuke and he's unable to make her happy from his point of view.
 

I can see him explaining her that he consider her as a friends but nothing more and that he already loves Sakura.

Me too, but only if Hinata choses to confront him about it, i cant picture Naruto going after her to say this, he never took an active role in romance, even taking in consideration the whole manga.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 January 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[T XD]

I think Hinata's character is done with regarding Naruto. But, still, Kishi can add something to finish up with her character which I think it would be Naruto rejecting her, directly or indirectly.

 

The thing is that her confession isn't important for the plot as in having Naruto go rejecting Hinata later. The plot goes on without that.

 

If Naruto didn't go and reject her before the final battle with Sasuke then the panel of her smiling when Sakura hugged Naruto, along with her saying she's going to stop chasing after him, her being on equal level with him and holding his hand and supporting him like she meant and said, are enough to be considered that she realized and accepted that Naruto's heart belongs to Sakura.

Edited by T XD, 05 January 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[narulsaku]

Exactly!
tricksie's post above explains my position the best: it's mostly done for suspense purposes and for the sake of clarity. As simple as that.

• The love-letter shinobi moment counts as a SS moment because it reaffirms that Sakura still loves Sasuke. "(...) if that's somebody that you like, than they're bound to be a great person (...)". Plus, absence of direct interaction doesn't always mean it's not a moment (it could be an expression of one's feelings through their actions, etc..); 
• Just because a character experiences negative feelings doesn't mean you shouldn't count it.

That's just ridiculous. Everything writers include in their story is done on purpose; if it wasn't, their works would be sloppy and inconsistent.. just a bunch of random stuff nobody would ever care to read. If Kishi leaves NH and SS without proper and realistic resolution, and focuses solely on NS this manga would turn into some crappy-written fanfic.
I never said this. I just used the most recent events as examples.
Another example of NH/SS -> NS pattern is:

• Pain Arc: Hinata's confession followed by NS hug and "thank-you";
• Five Kage Summit: Sakura's confession followed by her being unable to kill Sasuke (because of her feelings);

As for the rest of your post, I explained this above.

interesting . U also think like that . I think kishi just pulled hinata abit far i mean character devlopment is good . She has overcome her shyness and has become a good ninja but still i think kishi overdid it . And again ss. Childish crush of sakura even after sasuke attempted to kill her come on are ya serious!! When i saw that i was kinda confirmed that ss is dead . But then again same feelings of sakura .

I think Hinata's character is done with regarding Naruto. But, still, Kishi can add something to finish up with her character which I think it would be Naruto rejecting her, directly or indirectly.
 
The thing is that her confession isn't important for the plot as in having Naruto go rejecting Hinata later. The plot goes on without that.
 
If Naruto didn't go and reject her before the final battle with Sasuke then the panel of her smiling when Sakura hugged Naruto, along with her saying she's going to stop chasing after him, her being on equal level with him and holding his hand and supporting him like she meant and said, are enough to be considered that she realized and accepted that Naruto's heart belongs to Sakura.

That can be a good resolution of nh.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I think Hinata's character is done with regarding Naruto. But, still, Kishi can add something to finish up with her character which I think it would be Naruto rejecting her, directly or indirectly.

 

The thing is that her confession isn't important for the plot as in having Naruto go rejecting Hinata later. The plot goes on without that.

 

If Naruto didn't go and reject her before the final battle with Sasuke then the panel of her smiling when Sakura hugged Naruto, along with her saying she's going to stop chasing after him, her being on equal level with him and holding his hand and supporting him like she meant and said, are enough to be considered that she realized and accepted that Naruto's heart belongs to Sakura.

 

Rather than Naruto rejecting her, I would rather see Hinata make the decision to move on herself, without Naruto needing to give her a "thanks but no thanks," to realize she can be strong on her own and be her own person and no longer cling to Naruto as her crutch. Hinata is in many ways wasted potential as a character, and that's really all Kishi can do to salvage her now, at least in my opinion.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just think that we won't get a rejection scene. We just get her smiling away. I don't know, maybe because I think Kishi is type of guy who likes to do one time only deal things. Like Sakura got the rejection scene, so why not Hinata just get "I get it" scene. Successful is for Naruto with Sakura.

[Akashi]

interesting . U also think like that . I think kishi just pulled hinata abit far i mean character devlopment is good . She has overcome her shyness and has become a good ninja but still i think kishi overdid it . And again ss. Childish crush of sakura even after sasuke attempted to kill her come on are ya serious!! When i saw that i was kinda confirmed that ss is dead . But then again same feelings of sakura .

I'm not denying the fact that NH and SS are practically dead. Both remain one-sided, and with little development.. All I'm trying to say is that we still might see some NH/SS stuff before NS is 100% confirmed. I'm pretty sure we will get this confirmation at the end of the series, and before that time comes, anything could happen.

A lot of people thought that the Pain Arc was the last NH moment.. then we got Hinata's speech and hand-holding scene.. the last one even ended up on a volume cover.. did you see that coming?

 

I'm not saying that Kishi will suddenly decide to make Naruto fall for Hinata: 631 just reconfirms that Naruto's feelings haven't changed one bit; same goes for SS. But he might, and probably will, include at least few more HN/SS moments (for suspense purposes mostly, but also to make things clear once and for all).

Thank you.

Edited by Tauriel, 05 January 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well whoever ends the arc strong will be a clear victory, much more than Pain Arc. If you ask me, that's when you just go meh in all other moments from point forward. Don't even think it's a "pairing" moment, it's just there because insert reason outside of pairing.

[T XD]

 

Rather than Naruto rejecting her, I would rather see Hinata make the decision to move on herself, without Naruto needing to give her a "thanks but no thanks," to realize she can be strong on her own and be her own person and no longer cling to Naruto as her crutch. Hinata is in many ways wasted potential as a character, and that's really all Kishi can do to salvage her now, at least in my opinion.

I would like that too if Kishi wanted us to still see Hinata's romance aspect for Naruto being finalized.

 

Regarding this, I think there won't be any confrontation with Naruto about her confession. I think it's already addressed and done with. If we do get later about her moving on then I think it will be just a panel or two of her smiling or having a thought.

Edited by T XD, 05 January 2014 - 06:17 PM.

[Chatte]

I don't know why people are waiting a so-called resolution of NH in the first place. Hinata didn't expressed interest in actually being with Naruto. She just explained him WHY she chose by her OWN WILL to fight Pein. That's all.

She didn't say afterwards "I wanna go on a date with you".

Same in 573... She expressed intent on supporting him in this war and afterwards stopping from chasing him, not being together with him romantically. Kishi has made it clear when he drew the Shikamaru - Hinata comparison line.

[AzureWaters]

I'm not denying the fact that NH and SS are practically dead. Both remain one-sided, and with little development.. All I'm trying to say is that we still might see some NH/SS stuff before NS is 100% confirmed. I'm pretty sure we will get this confirmation at the end of the series, and before that time comes, anything could happen.

A lot of people thought that the Pain Arc was the last NH moment.. then we got Hinata's speech and hand-holding scene.. the last one even ended up on a volume cover.. did you see that coming?

 

I'm not saying that Kishi will suddenly decide to make Naruto fall for Hinata: 631 just reconfirms that Naruto's feelings haven't changed one bit; same goes for SS. But he might, and probably will, include at least few more HN/SS moments (for suspense purposes mostly, but also to make things clear once and for all).

Thank you.

 

That statement is contradicting in itself. If SasuSaku and NaruHina are practically dead, why would Kishi give those pairings any significant panel time, especially to create "suspense" which would only validate them as equal competitors to NaruSaku. A pairing is dead when it either gets resolved with a negative conclusion or when the author pays it no mind and doesn't address it again. If NH and SS continue to get hints or moments, despite the outcome you'd have to acknowledge that they were on even ground with NS, and therefore had a chance at becoming canon rather than being simple plot devices to further our pairing.

 

Instead of having more positive moments (which I think you're implying), SasuSaku and NaruHina should only be addressed in a way that does not encourage their fandoms. The best way to do this is to let Sakura and Hinata resolve their feelings alone. Showing pairing-themed interaction between Sasuke and Sakura or Naruto and Hinata is more than just creating suspense-- it's giving SS and NH real development and pairing moments, something that would not be easy to turn away from. It's a big reason why I hope that there will only be NaruSaku moments in the future, and not the three-way you're saying will happen. Anything else and the pairing resolution won't be so clear anymore.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't know why people are waiting a so-called resolution of NH in the first place. Hinata didn't expressed interest in actually being with Naruto. She just explained him WHY she chose by her OWN WILL to fight Pein. That's all.
She didn't say afterwards "I wanna go on a date with you".
Same in 573... She expressed intent on supporting him in this war and afterwards stopping from chasing him, not being together with him romantically. Kishi has made it clear when he drew the Shikamaru - Hinata comparison line.

I'm with her on this one.

[narulsaku]

 
That statement is contradicting in itself. If SasuSaku and NaruHina are practically dead, why would Kishi give those pairings any significant panel time, especially to create "suspense" which would only validate them as equal competitors to NaruSaku. A pairing is dead when it either gets resolved with a negative conclusion or when the author pays it no mind and doesn't address it again. If NH and SS continue to get hints or moments, despite the outcome you'd have to acknowledge that they were on even ground with NS, and therefore had a chance at becoming canon rather than being simple plot devices to further our pairing.
 
Instead of having more positive moments (which I think you're implying), SasuSaku and NaruHina should only be addressed in a way that does not encourage their fandoms. The best way to do this is to let Sakura and Hinata resolve their feelings alone. Showing pairing-themed interaction between Sasuke and Sakura or Naruto and Hinata is more than just creating suspense-- it's giving SS and NH real development and pairing moments, something that would not be easy to turn away from. It's a big reason why I hope that there will only be NaruSaku moments in the future, and not the three-way you're saying will happen. Anything else and the pairing resolution won't be so clear anymore.

i agree with you.
As i have already said kishi has dragged nh and ss a bit hard . As u said if further nh or ss momemts came it would become difficult to make the resolution . I dont understand why kishi is still showing that sakuras feelings havent change not even a bit after that killing attempt. Hinata i get it but why sakuras feelings for sasuke is still strong.

[Akashi]

That statement is contradicting in itself. If SasuSaku and NaruHina are practically dead, why would Kishi give those pairings any significant panel time, especially to create "suspense" which would only validate them as equal competitors to NaruSaku. A pairing is dead when it either gets resolved with a negative conclusion or when the author pays it no mind and doesn't address it again. If NH and SS continue to get hints or moments, despite the outcome you'd have to acknowledge that they were on even ground with NS, and therefore had a chance at becoming canon rather than being simple plot devices to further our pairing.

 

Instead of having more positive moments (which I think you're implying), SasuSaku and NaruHina should only be addressed in a way that does not encourage their fandoms. The best way to do this is to let Sakura and Hinata resolve their feelings alone. Showing pairing-themed interaction between Sasuke and Sakura or Naruto and Hinata is more than just creating suspense-- it's giving SS and NH real development and pairing moments, something that would not be easy to turn away from. It's a big reason why I hope that there will only be NaruSaku moments in the future, and not the three-way you're saying will happen. Anything else and the pairing resolution won't be so clear anymore.

Practically, but not completely.

 

I'm just referring to the fact that Kishi's been following this pattern for quite a while now... which means there's a chance we get to see few more NH/SS moments either for suspense, or trolling, or whatever reasons... And, like I said before, those aren't supposed to be positive or "big" moments; we might even see flashbacks.

Sakura still loves Sasuke.. Hinata is yet to let go of Naturo. You never know.. maybe one of these NH/SS moments will only reinforce NS in the end: remember Sakura's reaction after she realized Hinata loved Naruto, or the expression on her face during Hinata's speech.. there are plenty of scenarios what these might lead to in the end.

And just so people don't misinterpret my posts: this is only speculations based on what we've seen so far. I'm not trying to convince people that HN/SS moments are bound to happen. There is just a chance, that's all.

Edited by Tauriel, 05 January 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

We never said you think it will happen. It's just many moments for NH at least are now seeing in a clear light. The only one that was pure clear in romance side is 437 but that's only because Hinata has to spill it out for her character development, which is confidence.

[KnS]

I dont understand why kishi is still showing that sakuras feelings havent change not even a bit after that killing attempt. 

 

Well, I wouldn't say that's true.  While there's no getting around the fact that Sakura thought of Sasuke when the Lover-nin was talking about love in #540, due to slight variations in the translations I don't think it's 100% clear what's going on.

 

First of all, it's interesting to note that the most significant thing Sakura actually says ("There's someone else I...") is in #539 -- purposely separated from the rest of the scene by a week's time.  I didn't use to think that mattered and have argued the opposite out here before, but I've changed my mind since the release of the official English Jump volume.  In that version she says, "I have someone already, though, you see..."

 

I am now more inclined to think that Kishimoto broke the scene that way because the guy Sakura is talking about in #539 -- the "someone" -- is Naruto.  I mean, think about it.  When the Lover-nin scene happened Sakura already recognized that Sasuke was no longer the same person she had loved.  She knew he had nearly murdered Karin.  She had already tried to kill Sasuke twice and he had tried to kill her twice, and she had already more or less made a commitment to Naruto in front of witnesses.  

 

Even in the worst case -- if Sakura was flat out lying to Naruto during her confession and she has no feelings for him at all -- in #539-540 she still knew perfectly well that she does not "have" Sasuke, and he is not someone she can in any way count as a person in her life.  It makes no sense that she was referring to Sasuke as the "someone else."

 

As for what Lover-nin says in #540:

 

"But there is one thing that I know... If it's somebody that you like, then they're bound to be a great person!" (Mangareader)

"Hope it works out for you.  He must be a really great guy if you're in love with him." (Mangastream)

"Well, good luck.  If you love him he must be a good man." (English Jump, vol. 57)

 

When Sakura then thinks of Sasuke, can we be 100% sure why?  Was it meant to reflect her disappointment in herself because she still loves him?  Or meant to reflect her disappointment that she ever loved him?  

 

Although Naruto was not shown as the positive replacement in the same panel, I still think it can be reasonably argued that Sakura's disappointment was mainly about having ever loved Sasuke.  It is consistent with her reaction to Sai's revelation -- that her feelings for Sasuke are a source of great pain to Naruto, a guy she knows is a "good man."

 

Something to consider, anyway.

 

Beyond that we have other, more recent evidence that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke have changed.  When Sasuke appeared on the battlefield she showed wide-eyed surprise at his arrival to "help," but later a huge panel was dedicated to the implication that she does not trust him.  Likewise, when Team 7 reunited to fight the enemy, Sakura spoke only to Naruto.  It was as if Sasuke was not relevant.

 

And all of that was on top of the fact that she did not deny Naruto's assertion to his father that they were boyfriend/girlfriend in #631.  So yeah.  I think Kishimoto has been moving Sakura beyond Sasuke -- slowly, maybe, but surely.

 

ETA:  By saying that during the reunion Sakura only spoke to Naruto, I meant when she was claiming her right to fight with them.

Edited by KnS, 05 January 2014 - 08:38 PM.