12811 replies to this topic

[Nar123]

Girl love bad boy fantasy.

 

...suppose that could be a reason too lol

[ThroughWithLove]

If This Manga had a NS good ending, would you watch a Shinachiku movie? 

Honestly, there were so many dumb things throughout the final story arc that the only thing keeping me from dropping outright (like I did Bleach) was the possibility of NaruSaku happening. And not because I'm a  "shipper" (I'm not), but because it was one of the few consistent subplots throughout the manga that still remained. It meant serious character development for Sakura and Naruto finally being rewarded for his selfless devotion and faithfulness. Instead, it all got tossed aside for a character that doesn't feel like she even belongs in the series. Meanwhile, Sakura progresses down a road that even the author himself once referred to as "mindless and shallow." Is it any wonder that he told us the basis for her being with Sasuke would've been too contrived to bother explaining?

[rocci]

 
...suppose that could be a reason too lol

It works in almost all female oriented entertainment lol.

@throughwithlove
Either he hate it or he just has no idea.
If he can make Karin have reason to love sasuke, why can't sakura?
Perhaps sasuke help her when she's child, that's why she's different like most (generic) shoujo manga! But no, she's addicted to sasumeth.



I bet naruto addicted to herouke.

Edited by rocci, 25 July 2015 - 01:50 AM.

[Nar123]

It works in almost all female oriented entertainment lol.

@throughwithlove
Either he hate it or he just has no idea.
If he can make Karin have reason to love sasuke, why can't sakura?
Perhaps sasuke help her when she's child, that's why she's different like most (generic) shoujo manga! But no, she's addicted to sasumeth.



I bet naruto addicted to herouke.

 

*sigh* I still can't believe Kishi legitimately turned Sakura into a drug addict ...

[rocci]

 
*sigh* I still can't believe Kishi legitimately turned Sakura into a drug addict ...

I had in denial long ago that naruto addicted to pimpsuke slap.
Yeah, it's a shame what happen to sakura, but this is what you got when you choose ss.

[LuckyChi7]

Kidhi: "I wanted to show her as a reaistic girl."

 

 

Me: "Yeah great Realistic girl representation there Kishi."

[AHK]

http://bliissfulgold...on-narutoforums

lol you guys should read that ^ it's about the new interview. Apparently the translation of "addiction" is really really kind. The word Kishi used is much worse lol

sup bestie

Sup

Edited by AHK, 25 July 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[Nostradamus]

Ok so let's see how many answered and unanswered questions this ending has. Let's begin:
Why did Naruto gave up on everything? Answer: because ...
Why did Sasuke after realizing that he still has a family (Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi) decides to abandon them? Answer: because ...
Why are the themes abandoned and destroyed? Answer: because ...
Why was the entire journey rendered pointless? Answer: because ...

Why did a story that was action based turned all of a sudden into a pairing extravaganza one? Answer: because ...

How in God's name did they advanced so much in a matter of just 12 years? Answer: because ...

Why did Sasuke leave in the first place? Answer: because ...

Why did he return at the end of Gaiden back in Konoha, if he was going to leave anyway? Answer: because ...

Why in 12 years of searching for this new contrived villain, he didn't find the enemy? Answer: because...

 

Why doesn't Hinata's kid look and act like her? Answer: because ...

Why is that kid even a brat? Answer: because ...

Why did Naruto turn into a kitten dad? Answer: because ...

What was the point of the manga? Answer: ...

Why didn't Toneri intervene in the war? Answer: because ...

 

What happened to the next generation surpassing the previous one? Answer: ...

Why does Sakura's kid look and act like Karin? Answer: because ...

Why does Sasuke leave again? Answer: because ...

Why did Kakashi become Hokage before Naruto? Answer: because ...

 

What the hell is Naruto even doing in his Hokage office in a time of peace, that won't allow him to spend time with his own son? Answer: ...

Why is he even the Hokage? Answer: because ...

Why do they still teach children to be ninjas, to kill? Answer: because ...

Why doesn't anyone stop Orochimaru from killing people? Answer: because ...

What was it all for? Answer: ...

 

And I could go on with at least 100 more questions but you get the idea. And yes of course some of the questions are answered but the answers that are given to us are stupid, make no sense, are completely illogical, don't fit the story and just leaves us with more questions.

Anyone who thinks that an ending that leaves the readers with a million unanswered questions or really stupid answers; I'm sorry to say this but is a moron.

There's nothing wrong with leaving the story with a couple of unanswered questions. But not over 100 of them and then for the answered questions you treat your readers like idiots, like the reader can't possibly remember what was written before or think about the answer.

[hinataiscreepy]

Speaking of editors, here's the difference between Oda and Naruto, and this is why Naruto failed in the end. This is from a recent interview with Oda's current editor Suguru Sugita:

spoiler

Q4: What are some of the rules you have to abide by as the editor for One Piece?

A: He asked me not to pitch him too many ideas. The reason behind that is that if its another persons idea, then he wont be as inclined to draw it. Because its his own story, he wants to draw his own ideas. Also, he wants to work on the manga on the same playing-field as his editor, so he asked me not to call him Oda-sensei, but instead Oda-san. And Oda-san also calls me, a 26-year-old newbie editor, Sugita-san. [He] also asks me to honestly tell him what I think.

Q5: What aspects of Eiichiro Oda do you think are great?

A: Of course theres his talent, but what surprised me was just how much effort he puts into the series. There might come a day when Ill have a new manga artist Im working with who has more talent than Oda-san, but Im not so sure anyone will put in more effort. He is someone who only sleeps for maybe two or three hours a night and he always thinks about his manga. He does not compromise. When he thinks that something isnt funny or will not surprise the readers, then he just looks for something else, which I think is really amazing. Hes the quintessence of manga author-ness.

Oda's take on editors is the opposite of Kishi, it seems

 

By looking at some of Kishimoto 's video online. the first one was at the Japan expo of 2009 and I must say that he really looks like a real nice guy who is not twisted and dishonest. However, he seemed naiive, too kind, easily manipulated and influenced.

 

Naruto's childhood is literally a reflection of his owns and maybe he was not the type of person to be famous all of a sudden and did not know how to react it. He probably listened too much to his fangirls who wanted more Sasuke , the Hinata fans and the magazine and SP wanting a new heroine cause that's what the "majority of the fans" wanted.

 

The difference is that Oda had a very normal childhood and never doubted his success and knew what makes a story good.

[Nostradamus]

 

By looking at some of Kishimoto 's video online. the first one was at the Japan expo of 2009 and I must say that he really looks like a real nice guy who is not twisted and dishonest. However, he seemed naiive, too kind, easily manipulated and influenced.

 

Naruto's childhood is literally a reflection of his owns and maybe he was not the type of person to be famous all of a sudden and did not know how to react it. He probably listened too much to his fangirls who wanted more Sasuke , the Hinata fans and the magazine and SP wanting a new heroine cause that's what the "majority of the fans" wanted.

 

The difference is that Oda had a very normal childhood and never doubted his success and knew what makes a story good.

This is exactly I see it.

I wish I knew Japanese to truly figure him out, but from his translated interviews that we got so far, he does seem naive and easily manipulated. He seems like he wants someone to tell him he's doing a good job. And as long as you tell him he's doing a good job, he'll do what you tell him.

Edited by Nostradamus, 25 July 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[rocci]

Oda has a point where he doubt himself. That happen before his romance dawn pilot.

[milan kyuubi]

I thought a lot about this. And in the end I think Kishi was just a weak person who was easily manipulated and gave out to others (editors, SJ, Sp etc) will.

As much as some people say Kishi lost his mind. I think they guy just sold out, and received some cash in return. His interviews make no sense what so ever. Which leads that he doesn't care at all about Naruto anymore. He is just cashing as much money he can!

 

 

Thank you, but I just don't like the pairing that much

 

But that's a nice reason, goes to show that a nice fanon can sometimes overshadow the canon

 

On the dramione. Dramione shippers never actually expected dramione to actually happen in canon. Of course there were some bad eggs. Which JK addressed herself. Those fans were fangirls who only liked Draco (and in the process some of them shipped dramione) because they found Tom Felton hot!

I myself am dramione shipper, and I read many fics!

The reason dramione is so popular is because people find it symbolic. The major theme in HP was prejudice. Draco was always the poster child for prejudice. And Hermione was always poster child for mugleborns.

They (I) find dramione to be major symbol of prejudice being done (over) in HP world. By paring them together. Their union represent the prejudice being erased.

Of course there were also some other reasons. Their personalities are fun to match together. Bad boy, good girl ( ). Chemistry of their on screen counter parts. Emma's confession that she had a big crush on Tom in earlier movies.

And many other reasons. The only downside of dramione shippers. Is that some of them like to bash on Ron ! Which doesn't bother me that much, because of my own biased view that I don't like Ron . Of course I draw the line when some dramione shippers (some authors on FF) make Ron abusive jerk who neglects/beats his family and/or rapes Hermione. That I do not like at all.

I could talk all day about HP! But I'll stop here! XD

Edited by milan kyuubi, 25 July 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[hinataiscreepy]

This is exactly I see it.

I wish I knew Japanese to truly figure him out, but from his translated interviews that we got so far, he does seem naive and easily manipulated. He seems like he wants someone to tell him he's doing a good job. And as long as you tell him he's doing a good job, he'll do what you tell him.

 

Tbh, I have had a similar childhood as Kishi and Naruto. Even If I am successful I often need to be reassured by others and being deeply affected by people liking what I do even if they are wrong. Kishi's weakness might have been to give too much attention to fan letters acknowledging. The issue is that they don't necessarily understand what you are trying to say and they might have their own ideal image of the story and act on emotions rather than logic and subtext.

 

Metal gear solid is a series that is literally about an author trying to make his fans understand his messages. He loves his fans but is sad that they tend to misinterpret everything about his intentions such as Raiden being the Main character of 2 to make you understand the message even more by being normal, vulnerable and naive. Even 3 has the illusion of controlling "Snake" who is ideologically and intellectually inferior and naiive compared to Solid Snake (you are actually closer to raiden as a character ironically). The overlong ending of MGS4 is the author trying to make his fans understand the message to his players until big Boss last freaking breath. He never compromised his message until the very end. He doesn't make Big Boss the real hero in the prequels (he doesn't want to make sequels to 4 which would be intolerable) whatever happens and its clear that Solid Snake remains the hero (you notice even in the subtle differences in the way they encourage others to live). Big boss is literally a version of Anakin Skywalker done right. He turns into a monster but still retains some kind of dignity unlike Sasuke.

 

Kojima was clearly someone who was an outcast most of his life (his Otacon persona suggesting that he was alone and wanted to be loved by others would make him happy) even when he made the first game and people laughed at him. Yet Kojima seemed stronger than Kishi and more stubborn despite being an outcast. I think Kojima knew who to trust and be friends with in this series in order not to ruin the message. I think he was wise to listen to the longtime developers not to kill off Snake (he is supposed to break the curse of his family and die of old age peacefully) because he was really feeling depressed and MGS was always meant to have a positive outlook on life.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Ok so let's see how many answered and unanswered questions this ending has. Let's begin:
Why did Naruto gave up on everything? Answer: because ...
Why did Sasuke after realizing that he still has a family (Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi) decides to abandon them? Answer: because ...
Why are the themes abandoned and destroyed? Answer: because ...
Why was the entire journey rendered pointless? Answer: because ...

Why did a story that was action based turned all of a sudden into a pairing extravaganza one? Answer: because ...

How in God's name did they advanced so much in a matter of just 12 years? Answer: because ...

Why did Sasuke leave in the first place? Answer: because ...

Why did he return at the end of Gaiden back in Konoha, if he was going to leave anyway? Answer: because ...

Why in 12 years of searching for this new contrived villain, he didn't find the enemy? Answer: because...

 

Why doesn't Hinata's kid look and act like her? Answer: because ...

Why is that kid even a brat? Answer: because ...

Why did Naruto turn into a kitten dad? Answer: because ...

What was the point of the manga? Answer: ...

Why didn't Toneri intervene in the war? Answer: because ...

 

What happened to the next generation surpassing the previous one? Answer: ...

Why does Sakura's kid look and act like Karin? Answer: because ...

Why does Sasuke leave again? Answer: because ...

Why did Kakashi become Hokage before Naruto? Answer: because ...

 

What the hell is Naruto even doing in his Hokage office in a time of peace, that won't allow him to spend time with his own son? Answer: ...

Why is he even the Hokage? Answer: because ...

Why do they still teach children to be ninjas, to kill? Answer: because ...

Why doesn't anyone stop Orochimaru from killing people? Answer: because ...

What was it all for? Answer: ...

 

And I could go on with at least 100 more questions but you get the idea. And yes of course some of the questions are answered but the answers that are given to us are stupid, make no sense, are completely illogical, don't fit the story and just leaves us with more questions.

Anyone who thinks that an ending that leaves the readers with a million unanswered questions or really stupid answers; I'm sorry to say this but is a moron.

There's nothing wrong with leaving the story with a couple of unanswered questions. But not over 100 of them and then for the answered questions you treat your readers like idiots, like the reader can't possibly remember what was written before or think about the answer.

What's really sad being that this is pretty much solely from Gaiden. You get into the main "Naruto" manga and you'd go into the billions in terms of unanswered questions.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

https://www.reddit.c..._august_4_2015/ "Shueisha updated their upcoming Jump Comics imprint release list today, revealing that Naruto Gaiden will be released as a single volume on August 4, 2015."

 

It coming out 3 days before the movie. The volume on a Tuesday and the movie on Friday. So we will hopefully know both of their initial sales figures the same week.

 

Either Japan is dumb or SP and SJ just gambled and failed big time.

 

http://bliissfulgold...on-narutoforums

lol you guys should read that ^ it's about the new interview. Apparently the translation of "addiction" is really really kind. The word Kishi used is much worse lol
Sup

 

Backtracking to the interviews the Kishi spoken of Sakura during the past 9 months, you noticed when Sakura was being explained in the topic of NS, Kishi refrains from bashing her character. Like the sexist comment he made in his earlier post chapter 700 interviews, "Sakura could not reconcile Naruto's feelings because she will be a terrible woman if she moves on from Sasuke because she loves Sasuke wholeheartedly.

 

I don't think Kishi hates Sakura--but he likes  her character after finally confirmed it at last years Jump Festa--he hates the image of her being Sasuke wife and he absolutely hates Hinata like us NS shipper. This is the second time Kishi has made fun of Hinata's character, meaning the first time was about the Hyuuga filers where SP animated young Neji to grope his cousin's breast.

[Narufan85]

I hated the ship once upon a time but I read a dramione fanfic and it was so good that I had to read another . Dramione is popular mostly because 99 percent of dramione fanfics are so well written. Plus the idea of Draco a pureblood supremist liking Hermione a muggleborn makes ppl interested. I can recommend some to you. c:
 

This also

 

I totally understand the appeal of a well-written fic. Some of my favorite fics are all crack ships but they're well written and entertaining. Practically, though, I see Dramione in the same light as SS: when you look at the constant abuse from one character to another, I can't imagine a scenario where the ship would actually make sense within the context of canon.

 

*shrugs*

[milan kyuubi]

I am sad to see some users whose pov I respected. To see them actually liking gaiden. And thinking CC is the perfect comic relief char! Sigh...

 

 

I totally understand the appeal of a well-written fic. Some of my favorite fics are all crack ships but they're well written and entertaining. Practically, though, I see Dramione in the same light as SS: when you look at the constant abuse from one character to another, I can't imagine a scenario where the ship would actually make sense within the context of canon.

 

*shrugs*

 

Actually Dramione looks innocent compared to SS. The worse Dramione has is the mutual dislike for each other. While we all know what SS has!

[Nar123]

 

Either Japan is dumb or SP and SJ just gambled and failed big time.

 

 

Backtracking to the interviews the Kishi spoken of Sakura during the past 9 months, you noticed when Sakura was being explained in the topic of NS, Kishi refrains from bashing her character. Like the sexist comment he made in his earlier post chapter 700 interviews, "Sakura could not reconcile Naruto's feelings because she will be a terrible woman if she moves on from Sasuke because she loves Sasuke wholeheartedly.

 

I don't think Kishi hates Sakura--but he likes  her character after finally confirmed it at last years Jump Festa--he hates the image of her being Sasuke wife and he absolutely hates Hinata like us NS shipper. This is the second time Kishi has made fun of Hinata's character, meaning the first time was about the Hyuuga filers where SP animated young Neji to grope his cousin's breast.

 

Honestly if he liked her why did he gave her ( and a lot of others)  this craptastic ending?

 

Even if Kishi is weak willed and etc, ultimately the decision to ruin Sakura and the history came from him, if he really liked the character he wouldn't do that to her

 

I see Kishi being impartial towards Sakura, and then even having something like hate towards her because he never managed to truly make her a good female main character due to his own incompentency as a writer

 

I honestly don't know how you and a couple of other people here still have the drive to try to defend him somehow, I mean, sure I think he was influenced by SP and SJW too but c'mon just look at how Oda, Togashi, Miura, Isayama and other manga authors works, they put their own ideas into the paper and they consider the advice they receive before using them, if Kishi didn't had the drive to impose his own ideas or to indentify and refuse bad ideas from his editors then it's ultimately his fault  as a manga author and he should receive blame for that 

[Bail o' Lies]

 

Either Japan is dumb or SP and SJ just gambled and failed big time.

 

 

Backtracking to the interviews the Kishi spoken of Sakura during the past 9 months, you noticed when Sakura was being explained in the topic of NS, Kishi refrains from bashing her character. Like the sexist comment he made in his earlier post chapter 700 interviews, "Sakura could not reconcile Naruto's feelings because she will be a terrible woman if she moves on from Sasuke because she loves Sasuke wholeheartedly.

 

I don't think Kishi hates Sakura--but he likes  her character after finally confirmed it at last years Jump Festa--he hates the image of her being Sasuke wife and he absolutely hates Hinata like us NS shipper. This is the second time Kishi has made fun of Hinata's character, meaning the first time was about the Hyuuga filers where SP animated young Neji to grope his cousin's breast.

I think that this was planned from the beginning. When you look at what happened since (even before) the ending everything comes off like some executives huddled together to find away to maximizes profits off Naruto's ending.

 

First you have the manga end after 15 years on it's 700th chapter 1 month before the release of "The Last Naruto Movie."

 

Then you have the author go around for a month talking about how great the ending is and the perfect the pairings are and how everyone should see the movie.

 

Then you have the movie first shown in Japan so they can see it first before sending it to the 37 other countries that love Naruto. Also announce a New Naruto movie about his son Bolt after the movies credits. After the watch such a master piece they would clearly want another serving in a couple of months? 

 

Then the next month they put one of the more well known and well received Naruto movies on tv around new years to get a bit more cash.

 

Then in February have the start of the Hiden novels series that has one novel released every month as well as the last Naruto volume.

 

Then you have the mangaka do a gaiden leading up to the Bolt movie an introducing us the main cast while making sure to end it at least one month before the Bolt movie premieres.

 

Then finally as the climax have the gaiden volume and the Bolt movie release the same week to maximizes profit after keeping the public aware/remind of Naruto over the last 9 month.

 

In theory that could lead to a large pay day at the end. ...The problem as we all know is the ending is crap. The Last Naruto movie was awful. And those Novel and the gaiden are mediocre at best. So what was a decent business plan that could have in theory have made them a lot of money instead it has just angered the fan by rubbing in the fans' faces that Naruto has became crap, and just helped with the hemorrhaging that was already happening as well as making the Naruto franchise a laughing stock. So now everything is just damage control.

 

As for kishimoto. i don't think he hates Sakura. If he hated her he would have gotten rid of her years ago. What probably happen there was that after kishi got tried of writing Naruto and wanted it to end. SP and his editors just kept pushing Hinata in his face and telling him that nH is what the fans want and what they always wanted. Kishi wanting to do something nice for the fans for their years of support decided to give them what he was told they wanted, despite it going against everything the manga was about. The earlier interview were when he was also trying to figure out and justify why nH and SS happened over NS. (Granted he was probably bs out is ass as well.) But over the months learning and see what happen he learned what we knew all along that nH and SS are bad the ending is bad and the fans that like those thing rarely actually financially support the series, and the fans that did love the story/character/ect are angry and left. Which is why in the last interview kishi basically said SS is a toxic relationship, people mainly like Hinata for her big breasts, and she was barely involved with Naruto's life. Because he knows he been had.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 July 2015 - 02:52 AM.

[Nar123]

I think that this was planned from the beginning. When you look at what happened since (even before) the ending everything comes off like some executives huddled together to find away to maximizes profits off Naruto's ending.

 

First you have the manga end after 15 years on it's 700th chapter 1 month before the release of "The Last Naruto Movie."

 

Then you have the author go around for a month talking about how great the ending is and the perfect the pairings are and how everyone should see the movie.

 

Then you have the movie first shown in Japan so they can see it first before sending it to the 37 other countries that love Naruto. Also announce a New Naruto movie about

his son Bolt after the movies credits. After the watch such a master piece they would clearly want another serving in a couple of months? 

 

Then the next month they put one of the more well known and well received Naruto movies on tv around new years to get a bit more cash.

 

Then in February have the start of the Hiden novels series that has one novel released every month as well as the last Naruto volume.

 

Then you have the mangaka do a gaiden leading up to the Bolt movie an introducing us the main cast while making sure to end it at least one month before the Bolt movie

premieres.

 

Then finally as the climax have the gaiden volume and the Bolt movie release the same week to maximizes profit after keeping the public aware/remind of Naruto over the last 9 month.

 

In theory that could lead to a large pay day at the end. ...The problem as we all know is the ending is crap. The Last Naruto movie was awful. And those Novel and the gaiden are mediocre at best. So what was a decent business plan that could have in theory have made them a lot of money instead it has just angered the fan by rubbing in the fans' faces that Naruto has became crap, and just helped with the hemorrhaging that was already happening as well as making the Naruto franchise a laughing stock. So now everything is just damage control.

 

As for kishimoto. i don't think he hates Sakura. If he hated her he would have gotten rid of her years ago. What probably happen there was that after kishi got tried of writing Naruto and wanted it to end. SP and his editors just kept pushing Hinata in his face and telling him that nH is what the fans want and what they always wanted. Kishi wanting to do something nice for the fans for their years of support decided to give them what he was told they wanted, despite it going against everything the manga was about. The earlier interview were when he was also trying to figure out and justify why nH and SS happened over NS. (Granted he was probably bs out is ass as well.) But over the months learning and see what happen he learned what we knew all along that nH and SS are bad the ending is bad and the fans that like those thing rarely actually financially support the series, and the fans that did love the story/character/ect are angry and left. Which is why in the last interview kishi basically said SS is a toxic relationship, people mainly like Hinata for her big breasts, and she was barely involved with Naruto's life. Because he knows he been had.

 

 

I don't think it was planned it since the beginning, Kishi had no perspective of how famous Naruto would become and he didn't even had part 2 planned. 

 

I think that the general ending ( not the details) was planned back in 2012 with the beginning of the last production, with SP convincing Kishi that the last movie should be a NH romance one and him accepting it because reasons 

 

It's also obvious that their plan obviously backfired with the last not even reaching the 2 million yen mark in their home country, then the failure of the merchandising and if SP's current animation quality downfall is any indication 

 

I mean, it can't be just a coincidence that after the top quality animation they used on the last  they couldn't even use an acceptable animation into their other series, the Naruto series reached an all time low in the animation aspect and Tokyo Ghoul root A suffered. My guess is that SP didn't managed to cover the cost of the last and the advertisement with what the movie earned, so basically they had to save money by downplaying some technical aspects in their series

Edited by Nar123, 25 July 2015 - 04:23 PM.