1876 replies to this topic

[Insurrection]

But isn't that all evidence just to prove your point, because it's becoming obvious that you don't care that the other side has a dissenting opinion it just looks like you have a mirroring effect. Via the rules of selective exposure you allow yourself to become driven by a point and the point is you've thought one thing, you think you know you're absolutely right about said thing and then by that transitive property you're finding reasons to back it up with information from sources that you agree with.

Now yes, there is a narrative for certain candidates that are more prominent, however there are also those who are not like the people on television. To form a view from that would undermine opinion.

However after being on this thread for some time and reading your posts to argue that you have not held preconcieved notions is BS.

Edited by Insurrection, 27 October 2010 - 04:02 AM.

[Codus N]

They tried paragraph 11 in Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorist problem is worse then before. While I grant that paragraph 11 may be required for those nations that support terrorism such as Iran the actual way to defeat Terrorism is through hope. A person who has hope doesnt blow themselves up. Someone who can feed their family and support them will turn radicals away because they like what they have and dont want to lose it for the vaguer promise of 40 virgins in heaven etc etc. plus the radical message gets lost as they look more and more ridiculous.

And speaking of radicals.

Curb stomping the opposition

Yeah thats what the tea parties come to represent.

Would you mind explaining paragraph 11?? if you don't mind answering, thanks

[catsi563]

In short

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

[Codus N]

err....plain English, please? I'm not that quite advanced in English.

[catsi563]

In essence It spells out some of the powers congress can have. The paragraph in question enables congress to declare war, and make rules about the taking of land and sea, as well as issue letters that enable prvate vessels to engage in piracy.

[Strangelove]

Authorizes the military to go and capture an enemy, and bring them to court for condemnation, it would have granted the authority to target specific terrorist, instead of going to war against a foreign nation. Ie Iraq.

We need to know, terrorism is a tactic, not a group. The word terrorist has been transformed by a portion of Americans to describe Muslims, and Muslims fundamentalist, the war is on Al Quaeda, or Al Cracker, and we need to know, that there is no nation on the map labeled Al Quaeda.

We also need to remember that suicide bombing is also a tactic, and not a religious relic of Islam. In Sri Lanka the Tamil Tigers employed a group called Black Tigers, a secular group, without no religion whatsoever to carry out constant suicide attacks.

[catsi563]

Authorizes the military to go and capture an enemy, and bring them to court for condemnation, it would have granted the authority to target specific terrorist, instead of going to war against a foreign nation. Ie Iraq.

We need to know, terrorism is a tactic, not a group. The word terrorist has been transformed by a portion of Americans to describe Muslims, and Muslims fundamentalist, the war is on Al Quaeda, or Al Cracker, and we need to know, that there is no nation on the map labeled Al Quaeda.

We also need to remember that suicide bombing is also a tactic, and not a religious relic of Islam. In Sri Lanka the Tamil Tigers employed a group called Black Tigers, a secular group, without no religion whatsoever to carry out constant suicide attacks.

Exactly correct.

The publics been basically misinformed by certian groups about the so called Islamic boogeyman. its alot easier to scare people when you have a nameless faceless enemy that can be pigeonholed into a simple generic term, like Terrorist, or Illegal immigrant, or Irish feenian, or Red Communist, or Black man, or Muslim etc etc etc.

The worst thing about it is that the fearmongering that gets used often obscures the real issues of such things and leads to wholey incorrect strategies about how to deal with the real issues.

[Codus N]

Why the hell am I not surprised??

[catsi563]

Thats the politics of fear.

Scare the old white voter with the evil black muslim boogeyman. Hes coming to get you, and take away your jobs, social security, etc etc ((forgetting to mention conveniently that nearly every single tea party member has called for either privatization or out right revocation of all social security)).

All the old white folks need to know is that there's a black man in a position of power and hes a *gasp* muslim!! oooooooo scawy. But worse hes a progressive who supports gay rights and hell have your children indoctrinated OHNOES!!. And so on and so forth.

politics of fear. who needs facts when youve got muslims or gays or blacks or catholics etc etc etc.

[Strangelove]

Politics of fear? or Politics of distraction.

We Scapegoat muslims for the War on Terror, and because they do not have the same religious beliefs as a Neocon Christian.

We Scapegoat immigrants because of our weak economy and welfare state, if we didn't had a welfare state, and had a strong economy, Immigrants would be welcome with open arms.

[catsi563]

Its exactly the same Strangeglove. thats what the politics of fear is used for. Its exactly as you say, a distraction. Its the equivalent of what the Romans did with the coliseum. Distract the populace with bloodsports and theyll forget for a while that they're starving and unhappy.

Same thing the Nazis did in germany. Blame everything that happens on the jews. The banks taking your home, Wait the banks are owned by the Jews, your home being forclosed on Jews must be to blame. And so on and so forth.

Now we have the Muslims and the Illegal immigrants. and look at the Rhetoric thats being spat out. The Illegals are coming to get your jobs, burn your horses, rape your homes and ride off on the women. The Muslims are building secret victory mosques in every city and state.

Thats the politics of fear. Distract the people with the boogeyman and they forget that the jobs and economy are the important issues. Distract them with the Vewy Scawwy idea that ""The Gays"" are coming to get your children and indoctrinate them into ""The gay lifestyle"".

obscure the issue with fear and suspicion. Get people scared and distracted and theyll vote for whoever will claim to save them from the boogeyman.

Heck if theres any one reason why im voting Dem straight down the line this year its because Im Sick and tired of hearing about the bloody boogeyman.

[Strangelove]

Its exactly the same Strangeglove. thats what the politics of fear is used for. Its exactly as you say, a distraction. Its the equivalent of what the Romans did with the coliseum. Distract the populace with bloodsports and theyll forget for a while that they're starving and unhappy.

Same thing the Nazis did in germany. Blame everything that happens on the jews. The banks taking your home, Wait the banks are owned by the Jews, your home being forclosed on Jews must be to blame. And so on and so forth.

Now we have the Muslims and the Illegal immigrants. and look at the Rhetoric thats being spat out. The Illegals are coming to get your jobs, burn your horses, rape your homes and ride off on the women. The Muslims are building secret victory mosques in every city and state.

Thats the politics of fear. Distract the people with the boogeyman and they forget that the jobs and economy are the important issues. Distract them with the Vewy Scawwy idea that ""The Gays"" are coming to get your children and indoctrinate them into ""The gay lifestyle"".

obscure the issue with fear and suspicion. Get people scared and distracted and theyll vote for whoever will claim to save them from the boogeyman.

Heck if theres any one reason why im voting Dem straight down the line this year its because Im Sick and tired of hearing about the bloody boogeyman.

Dems also use the politics of fear, the bank bailouts happen when they had a majority in both Houses, and they use fear to get it done. A sensible man would have voted no on it. But we were told it was going to be The Apocalypse.

The Stimulus plan happened while Democrats had supermajorities, in both Houses, as well as the presidency. We were told that if this plan wasn't passed unemployment would reach beyond 8%. It passed, unemployment is above 8%. It slowed it down, but it hasn't stopped. Unemployment looks like 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

So i understand the anger, but that anger is being used by demagogues in the media and in Capitol Hill to target and victimize people that have nothing to do with the problem. It will only stop when we stop seeing each other as "groups" and more as individuals.

[catsi563]

just to clarify it was the republicans who were howling that anyone that voted against the bailout was anti American and would be the downfall fo the american people, and the Apocalypse in regards to the bailouts.

And now to hear them tell it they were fighting it the entire time. And The stimulus is working albeit slowly, for all the republican BS about it they sure seem hot to trot to get those stimulus checks and then crow about how they brought stimulus money to their state.

Amazing how hypocrisy runs isnt it.

Other then that i agree with your last statement. until we see each other as people and not political groups, or ethinc or religous groups were gonna continue down this path.

[Strangelove]

As far as i see it, Democrats and Republicans are really one party. They have small differences, but when it comes to gay marriage they want to make it illegal. When it comes to the drug war they want to keep prohibition, when it comes to foreign policy, they want to bomb Iran. Except Democrats avoid talking about it, Republicans will brag about it 24 hours a day.

I remember one of the debates, when they were asked. Should the US invade Iran if it ever acquires nuclear technology. 99% said they will have to speak with they're lawyer. Only Ron Paul responded that we are not allowed to go to war, without a declaration of war, and that a president needs to get permission from Congress.

Edited by Strangelove, 30 October 2010 - 09:48 PM.

[catsi563]

Its worse then that im afraid. Republicans have been taken so hard right by the ultra conservative wingnuts that the tea partys brought to light that they actually have conservative purity tests for their candidates.

Its so bad that moderate republicans have been literally pushed out of the party because of the extremist conservative agenda.

Dems may not be happy with Gay marriage but theyre not actively fighting it either. Republicans have fought it sicne it became an issue, and if this new crop gets in WILL ban it. Every single ones basically stated that they woudl ban Gay marriage entirely.

I cant say much on Iran as I myself agree that Iran should be bombed into a parking lot if they obtain nuclear weapons. That possibility will lead to a mushroom cloud over the middle east before all is said and done.

And you really shouldnt take anything Rand Paul says seriously. The guys not even a true eye doctor. His board certification comes from a medical board that HE created. Hes not even a true Libertarian like his father, hes a closet republican disguised as a libertarian. While several of his views are as crack pot as the militias running around now a days. hes pretty well run the republican play book since he began running.

[Strangelove]

Its worse then that im afraid. Republicans have been taken so hard right by the ultra conservative wingnuts that the tea partys brought to light that they actually have conservative purity tests for their candidates.

Its so bad that moderate republicans have been literally pushed out of the party because of the extremist conservative agenda.

Dems may not be happy with Gay marriage but theyre not actively fighting it either. Republicans have fought it sicne it became an issue, and if this new crop gets in WILL ban it. Every single ones basically stated that they woudl ban Gay marriage entirely.

I cant say much on Iran as I myself agree that Iran should be bombed into a parking lot if they obtain nuclear weapons. That possibility will lead to a mushroom cloud over the middle east before all is said and done.

And you really shouldnt take anything Rand Paul says seriously. The guys not even a true eye doctor. His board certification comes from a medical board that HE created. Hes not even a true Libertarian like his father, hes a closet republican disguised as a libertarian. While several of his views are as crack pot as the militias running around now a days. hes pretty well run the republican play book since he began running.

I didn't say Rand, i said Ron, the one who ran for president.

Now putting that aside. Catsi563, what is your view on the drug war. Do you think we should keep going at it?

[catsi563]

Oops my bad on the Ran/Ron issue. At least his old man has his head screwed on straight. I dont agree with him for the most part, but his convictions are solid.

As for the war on drugs. Hell no its a collossal failure at least in its current form, and yet another example of boogeyman politics. its a wedge issue used to prop up politicians on both sides.

look at me Im tough on crime, ill prosecute the war on drugs. Again as if drugs were some enemy in a uniform that could be fought in some set piece battle of chess instead of a nameless faceless enemy that can be brought out every election cycle and then shoved back in the box untill the next one.

Simply put the drug war doesnt hit the root cause of the problem. People turn to drugs to escape their lives troubles. If we improve those conditions, education, opportunities, and the like the only people turning to drugs will be those who do it recreationally. And that can be controlled in other ways through law enforcement. Heck the recreational angle will fade as well as it loses its dangerous appeal.

[Strangelove]

Oops my bad on the Ran/Ron issue. At least his old man has his head screwed on straight. I dont agree with him for the most part, but his convictions are solid.

As for the war on drugs. Hell no its a collossal failure at least in its current form, and yet another example of boogeyman politics. its a wedge issue used to prop up politicians on both sides.

look at me Im tough on crime, ill prosecute the war on drugs. Again as if drugs were some enemy in a uniform that could be fought in some set piece battle of chess instead of a nameless faceless enemy that can be brought out every election cycle and then shoved back in the box untill the next one.

Simply put the drug war doesnt hit the root cause of the problem. People turn to drugs to escape their lives troubles. If we improve those conditions, education, opportunities, and the like the only people turning to drugs will be those who do it recreationally. And that can be controlled in other ways through law enforcement. Heck the recreational angle will fade as well as it loses its dangerous appeal.

If you understand market principles, making something illegal doesn't make it vanish from the market, it just creates a black market run by criminals that the government has created, and there are always disputes in trading when it comes to transactions, about what the price is going to be. The only way to solve disputes in a black market is by the barrel of a gun. I mean Marijuana can't kill you, it is very hard to die by a Marijuana overdose, is just not that toxic.

Heroine is another story, for one thing many people get STD's from sharing needles with an infected user. But this wouldn't be so, if we allowed our doctors to provide the drug. The doctor would know for safety reasons that he should throw the needle away. I think with right chemistry we can transform any "dangerous" drug into something safe.

And we are wasting billions of dollars arresting sick people and throwing them in prison, and disrespecting state laws when it comes to medical drug use.

I mean, it is no longer about keeping people safe, it has become political scrutiny, an excuse for Republicans and Democrats to expand the power of government. If they really care about safety, then Americans wouldn't be hooked on legal stuff from the pharmaceuticals. Every day, when the average man and woman reaches the age of 40, your doctor will bombard you with gestrothesphenol or axidonisafet, or some strange drug that you need to take 3 times a day.

Edited by Strangelove, 31 October 2010 - 05:02 AM.

[Codus N]

Jon Stewart's rally.

Personally, what this guy has done is definitely amazing. Now why can't we debate politics in a civil, lighthearted manner like them?? and the fact over 200k people came, which is more than Glenn Beck's rally shows just how sick people are of the same old politics. They introduced a whole new way of politics.

I cant say much on Iran as I myself agree that Iran should be bombed into a parking lot if they obtain nuclear weapons. That possibility will lead to a mushroom cloud over the middle east before all is said and done.

To be honest, Iran has just about every right to nuclear technology for energy purposes. Although if only the president wasn't a nutcase, then I'd support Iran.

Edited by Newkerz, 31 October 2010 - 05:44 AM.

[catsi563]

the so called president isnt anything of the sort. Ahkmadinajad is at best a hand puppet. he wasnt even elected legitimately. You cant call an election legititmate where the mullah counsel steps in and says you can win to one guy, and then says to the other guy, you can run but your not allowed to win. his authority is that of a spokesman at best, at worst hes a direct collaborator with the real powers that be.

If they were using it for peaceful energy purposes Id agree. But they're not. They start each mornings parliamentary session with a chant of Death to Israel, Death to America. They are lead by religous extremists who believe it is their divine mission sent by god to destroy America and Israel. And worse nowadays the Military is beginning to flex its muscles in ways in whcih the mulahs never could have forseen. A miliatry coup is possible within the next few years.

We basically have a highly unstable and dangerous regime, lead by religious fanatics that are on a divin mission, and are now seeking the most powerful weapon in existence.

The scary part is this. Israel will not sit back and let them get one. If it looks like Iran has reached nuclear capacity I can pretty well guarantee you that Israel will launch a massive air strike against the reactor and any other facilities. They will not allow another Nuclear armed nation especially one like Iran which threatens their very existence.