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#1221 roninmedia

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:14 AM

QUOTE (Nee-sama @ Oct 22 2010, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, I'm an American too, so there's not too much I know about European politics. I don't understand where the French revolting get off, since their retirement age was lowered from 65 in '89 if I remember right. They must have far less patience with their government than we do currently.


You're talking about an American public that as a populace lacks perspective. The problem is that once something is changed, it becomes impossible to change it back to what it was previously. There was no "Taxed Enough Already" before the Bush tax cuts, but as as its about to expire, the masses come out against it.

This national debt and declining economy was not created by Obama. It may not have improved but it was hardly the doing of only Pelosi and Obama. When I was in 4th grade, I was well aware of the debt clock chugging away at ~6 trillion. Sadly the instant gratification Americans can get with almost any other product has permeated into their expectations from politics. I've seen plenty of people who claimed the change Obama promised has not come fast enough. Obama inherited a runaway train going downhill; it first had to be stopped from being dragged downhill anymore, and it takes a lot more effort just stopping it then the effort in causing it to run out of control, much less push it up the hill.

If Americans can't remember as soon back as 2000, I can hardly blame the French for not remembering 1989.

Edited by roninmedia, 23 October 2010 - 02:16 AM.


#1222 Nee-sama

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:23 AM

I completely agree with you. I was just surprised to see the rioting in the streets.
ETA: RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

Edited by Nee-sama, 23 October 2010 - 03:54 AM.

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#1223 ciardha

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:54 AM

Some EU news from a United Kingdom feminist blog called "the f-word" (meaning feminism)

Good news:
http://www.thefword..../a_step_forward

And bad:

http://www.thefword....the_cuts_a_disa

Edited by ciardha, 23 October 2010 - 03:57 AM.

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#1224 Codus N

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Oct 23 2010, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its not WWIII that im positing. its kind of hard to put my exact thoughts on this matter in written form.

To try and explain. Ive always felt there were two sides to islam. There is a quiet yet peaceful majority. And a Vocal loud and extreme minority. It is this minority which drastically misinterprets the koran and its teachings and gives rise to this extremist movement which commits atrocities.

But worse due to the silent majorites quiet consent This loud and vocal majority has come to represent the remainder of Islam to the world. It is this failure of the silent majority to act and become more vocal, and more agressive in speaking up about these fundamentalists that has led to Islam being painted with the same brush.

My fear is that with the rampant Anti muslim baitiing going on, the extremists will do something Stupid. Like getting hold of a WMD, or pulling off a mumbai or 9/11 style vicious attack, that leaves lots of civilian--especially children-- casualties.

They of course will crow in triumph of the ""lethal blow they struck agaisnt the infidel/crusader/zionist etc etc"" and the pictures will come of people dancing in the streets and handing out candy.

This will be met by silence or scattered condemnaton from the silent majority who would rightly be disgusted by the attack. However this will be pointed out as complicity to the attack by racists and Anti Muslim forces as so called token Action or sound bites.

This leads to the passage of anti muslim laws the world over. Which the extremists point to as evidence of the great war agaisnt Islam etc etc. And They engage in more attacks thus reinforcing the cycle and spiraling us into a rage filled cycle of retribution against islam which either leads to Muslims the world over having to fight for their religion, or just silently be pushed into so called reeducation camps where the religion slowly dies out.

Is it my imagination? God I hope so, and I hope it stays that way. too because I have a very vivid and active imagination and I can forsee a lot of horrible ways this can happen and go wrong. The images of a mushroom cloud over Israel or a Bio attack on Tel Aviv with hundreds of dead people will be seen as an atrocity of epic proportions. And it is the type of stain that the silent peaceful majority of muslims cant just push off as "" Well its just a few extremists they dont speak for all of Islam."" if they dont speak up and become the vocal majority.

Right now the notion that all muslims are terrorists is ridiculous. As is the notion that all terrorists are muslim.

But if the Silent majority of muslims does not begin to get louder and more vocal in their protestation of these extrmists and begin to take more direct action against thm. Then the notion of all Terrorists being muslims is going to become the norm since the only muslims speaking for Islam will be terrorists.

We can already see this happening partly because right now as much as most people are speaking out against the absurd notion, the hatemongers like Newt Gingrich and Fox news are speaking too the hatred and mistrust which can ultimately lead to an untennable situation. I believe these hate and fear mongers are as wrong as the extremists are.

They say there is a muslim problem in america and the world. I agree there is. But its a problem thats being exacerbated by the hate on both sides. Both sides have been burned by radical islamists. But you dont heal a burn by sticking it in a fire. You heal it by cooling it down thus soothing the burn.

As I said before I hope this scenario stays in my imagination, and as you say the world remains secular and smart enough to avoid the mass reactionary policies which led to Japanese internment camps in WWII.

I really hope it does.


Well, you're completely right about the Muslim countries not doing enough against the terrorists, even if my country has been very effective at it, I feel they could do more. There has been talk of rehabilitating these people and it is said to have been quite effective. But the problem is, the man who is most vocal about rehabilitating them is a former disciple of an extreme cleric. Which is why the government haven't been paying attention to him. I think they are actually a bit suspicious about his intentions. If not, it could be likely to U.S intervention saying they don't want a former disciple of a hard-line cleric to be rehabilitating these because of the risks and suspicions. I believe rehabilitating these people is the key to fighting terrorism. by cutting off their branches through rehab, we can stop terrorism from growing.

And should an attack on Israel ever happen, it should be the done in the name of Palestinians, not in the name of Islam. The problem with the middle east conflict is, they always mix everything with religion. Which is NOT the case at all. But rather about humanity itself.

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#1225 Nee-sama

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:33 PM

Rehab?

Doctor: "Sir, you have a disease called 'Genocidism' that makes you want to destroy everyone who thinks differently than you. Under my program in just 4 weeks we'll have you walking and talking and thinking like normal again!"

Bad joke, but really, what are they rehabilitating?

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#1226 Codus N

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 05:05 AM

QUOTE (Nee-sama @ Oct 23 2010, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rehab?

Doctor: "Sir, you have a disease called 'Genocidism' that makes you want to destroy everyone who thinks differently than you. Under my program in just 4 weeks we'll have you walking and talking and thinking like normal again!"

Bad joke, but really, what are they rehabilitating?


Ok.... maybe I used the wrong word. But unfortunately, that's the only word I could think of at the time.

Basically, it's the same as reeducation in the sense that their belief has been twisted by people who wants the deaths of innocent civillians all the while being lied to that they will all go to heaven.

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#1227 Strangelove

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:18 PM

And i think terrorism is the direct result of interventionism. The use of religion is simply put, propaganda. Global Jihad is propaganda, to get the more radical Muslims into they're ranks.

They know that a radicalized Middle East, will keep on fighting foreign invaders to the very last man. In Africa is a little different, as religion could be used as propaganda, but the real message lies on the great rape of Africa. The age of slavery, colonialism, to the present day state of the economy, as means of revenge against European nations, who in they're view is the cause of most of Africa's sorrows. [in a way they are right]

Then there is the other group of people who want they're respective country to rule the world. This are the radicalized leaders like Mahmoud, Chavez, Al-Bashir, and Al-Gaddafi.

In conclusion. We have the ultimate weapon to end radical Islam, and is not. Rehab. Rehab is used as means to get addicts of they're addiction by finding the spirit of Jesus Christ in a room full of other patients. Most of the time it doesn't work. In order for the Middle East to abandon radical Islam, is to do the same thing we did in Iraq, to every single nation, that unfortunately might come as the end of our civilization. Just like it did for Alexander the Great.

Edited by Strangelove, 24 October 2010 - 11:23 PM.

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#1228 Nee-sama

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:58 PM

QUOTE (Strangelove @ Oct 24 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And i think terrorism is the direct result of interventionism. The use of religion is simply put, propaganda. Global Jihad is propaganda, to get the more radical Muslims into they're ranks.

They know that a radicalized Middle East, will keep on fighting foreign invaders to the very last man. In Africa is a little different, as religion could be used as propaganda, but the real message lies on the great rape of Africa. The age of slavery, colonialism, to the present day state of the economy, as means of revenge against European nations, who in they're view is the cause of most of Africa's sorrows. [in a way they are right]

Then there is the other group of people who want they're respective country to rule the world. This are the radicalized leaders like Mahmoud, Chavez, Al-Bashir, and Al-Gaddafi.

In conclusion. We have the ultimate weapon to end radical Islam, and is not. Rehab. Rehab is used as means to get addicts of they're addiction by finding the spirit of Jesus Christ in a room full of other patients. Most of the time it doesn't work. In order for the Middle East to abandon radical Islam, is to do the same thing we did in Iraq, to every single nation, that unfortunately might come as the end of our civilization. Just like it did for Alexander the Great.


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#1229 Codus N

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE (Strangelove @ Oct 25 2010, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And i think terrorism is the direct result of interventionism. The use of religion is simply put, propaganda. Global Jihad is propaganda, to get the more radical Muslims into they're ranks.

They know that a radicalized Middle East, will keep on fighting foreign invaders to the very last man. In Africa is a little different, as religion could be used as propaganda, but the real message lies on the great rape of Africa. The age of slavery, colonialism, to the present day state of the economy, as means of revenge against European nations, who in they're view is the cause of most of Africa's sorrows. [in a way they are right]

Then there is the other group of people who want they're respective country to rule the world. This are the radicalized leaders like Mahmoud, Chavez, Al-Bashir, and Al-Gaddafi.

In conclusion. We have the ultimate weapon to end radical Islam, and is not. Rehab. Rehab is used as means to get addicts of they're addiction by finding the spirit of Jesus Christ in a room full of other patients. Most of the time it doesn't work. In order for the Middle East to abandon radical Islam, is to do the same thing we did in Iraq, to every single nation, that unfortunately might come as the end of our civilization. Just like it did for Alexander the Great.

Like I SAID, perhaps I used the wrong word, as of now, I can't think of any other words that would replace it or convey what I'm trying to say. It's not exactly rehab and it's not exactly reeducation either. The concept is somewhat familiar to those two. But if you guys are looking at it the wrong way, then perhaps you're not getting what I'm saying and I admit it's partly my fault. I'll try and get back to you guys later but I'm going to be a wee bit busy this week since I'm having exams next week.

I will use the term "counseling"

Basically, what I'm trying to say is: the counseling of radical Muslims are done by giving consultations by moderate clerics. It's completely different to what you guys have in mind. it's not the same as converting Muslims to Christianity. It's simply to correct their way of thinking.

For example, let's say we had someone like Sousuke (from FMP) who has been a mercenary since he was a child and didn't know anything about the reason why people live and why happiness exists. The only thing he knew was that he had to fight everyday without knowing the consequences. His mindset is that he was merely a soldier, a killing machine. Nothing more, nothing less. Then came Kalinin, who "counseled" him. Kalinin still fought with Sousuke like soldiers. But he still managed to form a bond with him and laid the basics of what it means to have a life. He showed Sousuke compassion and care. Thus forming a bond between them. He showed and gave Sousuke something that he never knew existed. And slowly, but surely, it worked. Kalinin saw Sousuke's eyes changing from a killing machine's to a human's. Then when the job as a bodyguard for Kaname came, Kalinin saw his chance to finally correct his mindset, and showing that he can have a normal life if he desires.

The concept for the counseling of terrorists is similar to this, according to my understanding. The guy who's been "counseling" former terrorists uses a concept similar to this. (again, as far as I understand) And IMO, this is really the best solution to stop terrorists from growing.

He also suggests that more socialization about Jihad should be done in order for people's understanding not to be easily twisted by terrorists. The lack of knowledge about jihad among Muslims is very dangerous. It pretty much became terrorists' weapons to recruit new people.

P.S.: The FMP stuff is a bit of a spoiler if you guys haven't seen the further extras in the FMP Sigma manga.

Edited by Newkerz, 26 October 2010 - 03:24 AM.

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#1230 Nate River

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Newkerz @ Oct 25 2010, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like I SAID, perhaps I used the wrong word, as of now, I can't think of any other words that would replace it or convey what I'm trying to say. It's not exactly rehab and it's not exactly reeducation either. The concept is somewhat familiar to those two. But if you guys are looking at it the wrong way, then perhaps you're not getting what I'm saying and I admit it's partly my fault. I'll try and get back to you guys later but I'm going to be a wee bit busy this week since I'm having exams next week.

But for now, I will use the term "reeducation" don't get me wrong, this is about the closest as I can get to.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is: the reeducation of radical Muslims are done by giving consultations by moderate clerics. It's completely different to what you guys have in mind. it's not the same as converting Muslims to Christianity. It's simply to correct their way of thinking.


Might want to re-think that one too. Research "re-education" and the camps the North Vietamese used right after the United States left in the early 1970's.

Let's just say...it wasn't a happy experience for the people sent there.

"Re-education" is a word often used by tyrants.

#1231 Codus N

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:55 PM

Got any suggestions, then?? (gonna edit my post after that) I'm all for it. happy.gif

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#1232 catsi563

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:34 PM

Counseling might be better. Most extemists are just angry people force fed a misquoted and misinterpreted version of the Q'ran.

Take the term jihad as an example. Most media outlets use it and its taken to mean Holy war. But in reality the term Jihad only translates loosley i might add, to "the struggles". No where in the Q'ran do the terms Holy and War show up together.
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#1233 Strangelove

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 03:19 AM

How about, just getting out of they're countries, and set an example in our own country?

Then they will try to emulate us. But you cannot force someone, no matter how good you are to accept your ideals, and if they refuse forcing it with a barrel of a gun. We have tried it before, and it is not working.

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#1234 Codus N

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 03:39 AM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Oct 26 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Counseling might be better. Most extemists are just angry people force fed a misquoted and misinterpreted version of the Q'ran.

Take the term jihad as an example. Most media outlets use it and its taken to mean Holy war. But in reality the term Jihad only translates loosley i might add, to "the struggles". No where in the Q'ran do the terms Holy and War show up together.


*edits post* thanks, catsi. happy.gif I did think of using that word before, I just wasn't sure if it fits. Oh yeah, does my Sousuke example with "counseling" make any sense to you??

@Strange: well, actually there are 3 possible reasons:

1. You guys give up too easily
2. Most of these radicals prefer talking it over with a fellow Muslim.
3. They shouldn't be treated like terrorists, but rather, a simple criminal.

#3 is something that apparently has become an effective method. I've heard that the terrorists in my country actually relaxed when the interrogators talks with them, treating them not as terrorists, but as simple criminals. They were also counseled later on in the interrogation, and some of them turned over a new leaf. But the problem is, the government isn't taking this method seriously enough. A lot of terrorist experts has been saying that the government should take this method seriously, but so far (as far as I know) it's been ignored. sleep.gif . I just hope that they will take this method seriously before it's too late.

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#1235 Strangelove

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE (Newkerz @ Oct 26 2010, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*edits post* thanks, catsi. happy.gif I did think of using that word before, I just wasn't sure if it fits. Oh yeah, does my Sousuke example with "counseling" make any sense to you??

@Strange: well, actually there are 3 possible reasons:

1. You guys give up too easily
2. Most of these radicals prefer talking it over with a fellow Muslim.
3. They shouldn't be treated like terrorists, but rather, a simple criminal.

#3 is something that apparently has become an effective method. I've heard that the terrorists in my country actually relaxed when the interrogators talks with them, treating them not as terrorists, but as simple criminals. They were also counseled later on in the interrogation, and some of them turned over a new leaf. But the problem is, the government isn't taking this method seriously enough. A lot of terrorist experts has been saying that the government should take this method seriously, but so far (as far as I know) it's been ignored. sleep.gif . I just hope that they will take this method seriously before it's too late.


Article I Section 8 paragraph 11 of the U.S constitution gives a simpler way to deal with terrorism.

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#1236 catsi563

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:11 AM

They tried paragraph 11 in Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorist problem is worse then before. While I grant that paragraph 11 may be required for those nations that support terrorism such as Iran the actual way to defeat Terrorism is through hope. A person who has hope doesnt blow themselves up. Someone who can feed their family and support them will turn radicals away because they like what they have and dont want to lose it for the vaguer promise of 40 virgins in heaven etc etc. plus the radical message gets lost as they look more and more ridiculous.

And speaking of radicals.

Curb stomping the opposition

Yeah thats what the tea parties come to represent.

Edited by catsi563, 27 October 2010 - 02:12 AM.

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#1237 Nate River

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:19 AM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Oct 26 2010, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They tried paragraph 11 in Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorist problem is worse then before. While I grant that paragraph 11 may be required for those nations that support terrorism such as Iran the actual way to defeat Terrorism is through hope. A person who has hope doesnt blow themselves up. Someone who can feed their family and support them will turn radicals away because they like what they have and dont want to lose it for the vaguer promise of 40 virgins in heaven etc etc. plus the radical message gets lost as they look more and more ridiculous.

And speaking of radicals.

Curb stomping the opposition

Yeah thats what the tea parties come to represent.


While it goes without saying he should be prosecuted, I have to ask where you were when the SEIU beat the crap out of black tea partier in St. Louis last year and when the MoveOn supporter bit the finger off another? So, I can say that those idiot are what labor unions and MoveOn have come to represent?

To use a single incident to smear the entire movement is crap and you just using it as an excuse to impugn a group you already hate. It's be like me saying that dood who held people hostage the discovery channel over Al Gore's movie as what the enviromental movement has come to represent.

While I don't think too much of the environmental movement, and in particular Gore and his movie, I know it's complete bull to think that even a fraction of them are the same as James Lee.

#1238 catsi563

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:24 AM

Watching the exception become the rule for the tea party.

And its not me thats doing it. its the entire movement thats doing it too itself.

Edited by catsi563, 27 October 2010 - 02:25 AM.

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#1239 Nate River

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:00 AM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Oct 26 2010, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Watching the exception become the rule for the tea party.

And its not me thats doing it. its the entire movement thats doing it too itself.


Of course. rolleyes.gif That's not at all rooted in your bias and pre-concieved notions about them.

#1240 catsi563

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:24 AM

what preconceived notions?

I knew what they were when they appeared, hell I even could sympathize a bit with the fiscal conservative message.

Then they elt themselfves get coopted by the republican party and its rich masters. Now it seems that eevry right wing lunatic they can field is coming out of the wood works.

We have people pushing some of the most extreme agendas that have ever bneen pushed in this nations history. We have anti immigrant bias, on top of racial bigotry the like sof which havent been seen since the 60s and theyre pushing it as if it were the mainstream not the extreme. The stances the tea party has taken on womens rights, and abortion are the types of stances that bring us back to the 50s and back room abortions and people crossing into canada.

We have Miller in Alaska detaining a reporter for asking questions, Rand Pauls supporters stomping on a woman who was holding a sign they didnt agree with. Sharon Angle no longer hiding but now pushing an campaign of as close to open racism as she can with out actually calling hispancis a negative word. We have a guy dressing as a Waffen SS officer and blowing it off as a joke. The gubenatorial candidate in Colorado claiming that a bike sharing program is actually a secret UN plan to take over the united states, A Texas representative whos calling for open armed revolt if the republicans lose. A new York gubenatorial candidate threatening to and I quote "Take out a reporter"" for asking about if he had proof of his accusations against his opponent. A west virginia candidate who claimed that he wanted to take laws back to the 1800s as they applied to business's ((you know, the ones that say children cant be worked to death, you have to be paid a minmimu wage that sort of thing))

So again I Ask, preconceived Notions????? I had no preconceived notions, about the Tea party until Sarah Palin endorsed them and they started running attack adds payed for by sources that refused to expose their donors. I had no preconceived notion save self fulfilling ones when Corporate sources who were crying and whining that they were in desperate financial straits that they couldnt create new jobs, suddenly found BILLIONS of dollars to throw into attack ads, and campaigns for republican tea party candidates.

I didnt need any preconceived notions about the tea party. They showed their true colors as I knew they would once the republican party coopted the movement.
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