1445 replies to this topic

[RyohkiFan]

There's for that.
But then, that's eroge for ya

Anyway, fate kaleid liner illya prisma is surprisingly good. Especially drei one.
But you must expect loli fanservice and brocon everywhere.

You're watching it?! I love it xD You should read the manga!! It follows it and right now craziness happened

[RyohkiFan]

 
- Where is it said in Fate/Zero that the Grail was created by mages? Maybe it's my memory failing me, but I've seen the show two or three times now and I don't remember that detail ever being mentioned. It is possible I missed it, I suppose, considering how small a detail it is in comparison to everything else going on in the story. So, just in case I did:
 
Even if it's explicitly said in Fate/Zero that mages did create it, though, why is it an issue if the Grail is corrupt by its very nature, and that what everyone's been believing in and fighting for has just been held up on too high a pedestal? The "corruption", as presented by Fate/Zero and only Fate/Zero (I repeat: as presented by Fate/Zero and only Fate/Zero), is simply that it couldn't come up with a perfect solution to Kiritsugu's wish, that it entirely depended on his basis of knowledge, and that it immediately went to the darkest (yet most logical) solution. This line of cold, hard logic could simply be what the mages intended to produce with the Grail. Because really, the Grail technically works. I mean, for all intents and purposes, the Grail is 100% correct in the solution it came up with for Kiritsugu's wish. That would fulfill his wish, and it does so building off of Kiritsugu's knowledge. The Grail's decision is very computer-like, in a way, funnily enough.
 
In other words, as presented by Fate/Zero and only Fate/Zero, the Grail does successfully grant wishes. It just doesn't do it in a necessarily ethical or morally correct way, which is what many in pursuit of it seem to hope for. It's the "looking for paradise and finding it, but paradise is not what was promised or expected" kind of trope.
 
- Which serves as closure to Kiritsugu's story. The only reason you say it's sequel bait is because you're taking F/SN into account. When you shouldn't be. That's the entire point of this whole discussion: does F/Z work without F/SN? Since Shirou works as closure for Kiritsugu's story and is absolutely integral for his character arc, in this case, yes. It does. I addressed this in my previous post. Still, I will go into new further detail on this a bit further down in this post.
 
- The Star Wars comparison is invalid because they are two extremely different types of stories with two extremely different effectiveness in their execution. I didn't address your previous comparison because it was inherently flawed, and I didn't feel it needed addressing. Fate/Zero is well-written and heavy in well-expressed themes; the prequels are not, and don't stand their ground very well as it is, even without being thought of as standalone. And yes, this makes a huge difference as to whether they can effectively speak for themselves or not.
(If you want me to argue about the prequels, I'll save us both the time and just direct you to RedLetterMedia's in-depth reviews of the prequels. They address absolutely everything possible.)
I'm not arguing for the Star Wars prequels here. I'm arguing for Fate/Zero. You can't try and equate them when they are vastly different stories with vastly different intentions, tones, and quality of execution.
 
That being said, again: Kirei and Gilgamesh surviving works thematically with Fate/Zero. I don't see what is difficult to understand about this, unless you didn't understand Fate/Zero's thematic intentions. Which I'm positive you did. Even so, I already addressed this in my previous post, and you haven't debunked any of what I actually said about this. Instead, you went straight to the Star Wars prequel comparison again and used it in place of an actual argument.
 
- I'm actually extremely glad you brought this up. On the contrary, those are exactly the kinds of questions that should pop up when Fate/Zero is standalone. That's exactly the point. It leaves a large grey area of whether it's a good thing for Shirou to aim for that, or a bad thing considering all that's happened. That isn't something which needs explicit answering, it's a thematic question presented to the audience, asking about what's right and what's wrong, whether Kiritsugu has really saved this kid or not if he's put him on this path. Asking complex questions about choices and consequences like this is something intelligent entertainment tends to do.
 
Zouken doesn't need explicit addressing. He's just another embodiment of the cruelty in the world and, again, is needed for Kariya's storyline as it is. What does he plan to do in the next war? It doesn't matter. The story was about this specific war. We don't need to know what he's been planning for the following one. That is not a question which needs answering for this story's completion. And, like Kirei, Gilgamesh, Ryuunosuke, and Caster, Zouken basically got a happy ending in Fate/Zero. Further supports the themes.
 
Questions are not inherently a bad thing to leave open; it all depends on the kind of questions left open. It's basic storytelling. Intelligent entertainment gets you thinking about what you can draw from it, what it's trying to say. The Shirou thing is exactly this. Will he fail? Is Kiritsugu giving him an impossible objective? That's something to consider for what the story presents thematically. It is not a plothole: it's an important concluding element.
 
Hell, it even furthers the "those who pursue noble intentions will suffer" theme the series has. Again, basically every "villain" character got a happier ending, while almost all of the good characters didn't. Kiritsugu seems like he might have with Shirou...but has he really? Considering the previous examples, it's likely he hasn't, because Shirou will be aiming for a noble intention. Even so, this isn't explicitly stated or shown. It's instead left to the audience's interpretation. Because of this, it's a bittersweet yet intentionally uncertain ending (just to be clear, so you don't misinterpret this: the uncertainty with Shirou is kind of the point).
 
Honestly, it seems like you have F/SN a bit too ingrained in your thinking to really put it aside and truly think of what Zero is like as its own entity. A lot of the arguments you've made about this loops back to "but this was explained/important in F/SN, so by default that means it must need explaining when it's presented in F/Z". Which defeats the entire purpose.
 
Oh god... I don't know what they're going to do with this part. But any way, it's going to be interesting.

It doesn't say it? Ohhh nevermind, if you watch the Fate Zero please episodes, it will explain it! Gives a bit more information! :) Well to me, FZ isn't much of stand alone due to Type Moon universe being connected in some ways in which most are not that confused by and it helps understand Fate, hollow ataraxia helps too especially for Lancer and a bit more about Kirie's past before Zero...maybe I don't remember lol

[rocci]

You're watching it?! I love it xD You should read the manga!! It follows it and right now craziness happened

Yeah I read it.
I think miyu and alt shirou will go to illya world in the end to formulate a plan against Julian. If that happen, there's big chance that shirou will gain alt shirou experience if they meet.

And more harem to come (along with loli fanservice and Brocon overload).

[RyohkiFan]

Yeah I read it.
I think miyu and alt shirou will go to illya world in the end to formulate a plan against Julian. If that happen, there's big chance that shirou will gain alt shirou experience if they meet.

And more harem to come (along with loli fanservice and Brocon overload).

I want the new chapter...

[rocci]

I want the new chapter...

Chapter 30 already out.

[RyohkiFan]

Chapter 30 already out.

Where?..

[CloudMountainJuror]

It doesn't say it? Ohhh nevermind, if you watch the Fate Zero please episodes, it will explain it! Gives a bit more information! :) Well to me, FZ isn't much of stand alone due to Type Moon universe being connected in some ways in which most are not that confused by and it helps understand Fate, hollow ataraxia helps too especially for Lancer and a bit more about Kirie's past before Zero...maybe I don't remember lol

 

Despite its connection to the other Fate material, it is important to consider how Fate/Zero functions as a standalone, though, considering how it served as the gateway Fate material for many people (myself included). For them, all they had to base their knowledge on for years is what was presented in Fate/Zero and nothing else. Also, the different writers and writing styles between F/Z and F/SN further calls for the consideration of them being independent from each other. Because not everyone who liked or enjoyed F/Z is enjoying F/SN.

 

For example: absolutely nothing in UBW for me has come even remotely close to matching any aspect of Fate/Zero. Story, characters, direction (aside from some basic dialogue scenes), dialogue, pacing, even animation (to a smaller extent); all of it is inferior to Fate/Zero. And considering I hear the other anime adaptations are only worse than this current UBW adaptation, and that the VN is apparently 60+ hours consisting of repetitive prose I have zero interest in ever reading (hell, I've even struggled to get through the Steins;Gate VN due to how slow it is compared to the anime, and I've only heard praise for that one, in comparison to the constant mixed reception I hear for the F/SN VN), it doesn't seem like there's any good option available for Fate/Zero to maintain its high story quality without it just keeping its distance from the other Fate material entirely.

Edited by CloudMountainJuror, 03 June 2015 - 08:28 PM.

[RyohkiFan]

 
Despite its connection to the other Fate material, it is important to consider how Fate/Zero functions as a standalone, though, considering how it served as the gateway Fate material for many people (myself included). For them, all they had to base their knowledge on for years is what was presented in Fate/Zero and nothing else.

Hmm, not for me...I started with Tsukihime where some stuffs of Fate but that's not point sorry xD I guess for some people it is but not for me..it was FSN because it spoke about the Fourth War, it wouldn't have bern animated or people wouldn't be so curious, I could see why you say it's a stand alone though! Since it focuses on the Fourth War and the characters revolving around it and FSN bringing up FZ so much

Edited by RyohkiFan, 03 June 2015 - 08:10 PM.

[RyohkiFan]

 
Despite its connection to the other Fate material, it is important to consider how Fate/Zero functions as a standalone, though, considering how it served as the gateway Fate material for many people (myself included). For them, all they had to base their knowledge on for years is what was presented in Fate/Zero and nothing else. Also, the different writers and writing styles between F/Z and F/SN further calls for the consideration of them being independent from each other.
 
For example: absolutely nothing in UBW for me has even come close to matching any aspect of Fate/Zero. Story, characters, direction (aside from some basic dialogue scenes), dialogue, even animation (to a smaller extent); all of it is inferior to Fate/Zero. And considering I hear the other anime adaptations are only worse than this current UBW adaptation, and that the VN is apparently 60+ hours consisting of repetitive prose I have zero interest in ever reading (hell, I've even struggled to get through the Steins;Gate VN due to how slow it is compared to the anime, and I've only heard praise for that one, in comparison to the constant mixed reception I hear for the F/SN VN), it doesn't seem like there's any good option available for Fate/Zero to maintain its high story quality without it just keeping its distance from the other Fate material entirely.

...I responded...lol xD I understand though, everything feels mature compare to FSN and more of a war between mages.

Hey did you see the Fate Zero Please thing? They're short but good information

[CloudMountainJuror]

...I responded...lol xD I understand though, everything feels mature compare to FSN and more of a war between mages.

Hey did you see the Fate Zero Please thing? They're short but good information

 

I'm sorry, I have a bad habit of editing posts after I make them because I realize I had more I wanted to say. Some more drastically than others.

 

Do you mean the Einzbern Consultation Room OVAs? If you do, I have seen them (twice, come to think of it). Truth be told, I remember mostly the material with the servants visiting, and not a ton of the actual infodumps in the first few episodes (there was way too much being presented way too quickly to absorb for long-term memory there, even after a repeat viewing). They're nice, funny extras. The last episode was surprisingly emotional, too. The fourth-wall breaks were great.

 

Though, to be clear, I haven't been taking those OVAs into account when thinking of F/Z as standalone. Unless they're absolutely essential in telling the main story and the core series just doesn't work without them (like the Wolf's Rain OVAs, which are more actual episodes needed to finish the story than they are OVAs), I always push OVAs to the side when judging a series. Still, for optional extras, the Einzbern Consultation Room OVAs were surprisingly good.

Edited by CloudMountainJuror, 03 June 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[trang95]

...I responded...lol xD I understand though, everything feels mature compare to FSN and more of a war between mages.

Hey did you see the Fate Zero Please thing? They're short but good information

What's that?

[CloudMountainJuror]

What's that?

 

I believe she meant these: http://myanimelist.n...te_Zero:_Onegai!_Einzbern_Soudankittensu

 

(The link got broken up. Oh well, just copy and paste the whole thing I guess.)

Edited by CloudMountainJuror, 03 June 2015 - 09:20 PM.

[trang95]

 

I believe she meant these: http://myanimelist.n...te_Zero:_Onegai!_Einzbern_Soudankittensu

 

(The link got broken up. Oh well, just copy and paste the whole thing I guess.)

Huh, I'll prob watch that soon.

[RyohkiFan]

 
I'm sorry, I have a bad habit of editing posts after I make them because I realize I had more I wanted to say. Some more drastically than others.
 
Do you mean the Einzbern Consultation Room OVAs? If you do, I have seen them (twice, come to think of it). Truth be told, I remember mostly the material with the servants visiting, and not a ton of the actual infodumps in the first few episodes (there was way too much being presented way too quickly to absorb for long-term memory there, even after a repeat viewing). They're nice, funny extras. The last episode was surprisingly emotional, too. The fourth-wall breaks were great.
 
Though, to be clear, I haven't been taking those OVAs into account when thinking of F/Z as standalone. Unless they're absolutely essential in telling the main story and the core series just doesn't work without them (like the Wolf's Rain OVAs, which are more actual episodes needed to finish the story than they are OVAs), I always push OVAs to the side when judging a series. Still, for optional extras, the Einzbern Consultation Room OVAs were surprisingly good.

It's ok!! I get that feeling but my laziness kicks in...

Yeah its important actually and the last one she says stuff about the grail xD

They were!! I believe the little girl is Taiga...

[RyohkiFan]

https://youtu.be/NLXTJTcsz5c

Has 7 episodes and all short xD

https://youtu.be/dc5v5arh5-0

This one was really nice :3

[Nar123]

 

- Where is it said in Fate/Zero that the Grail was created by mages? Maybe it's my memory failing me, but I've seen the show two or three times now and I don't remember that detail ever being mentioned. It is possible I missed it, I suppose, considering how small a detail it is in comparison to everything else going on in the story. So, just in case I did:

 

Even if it's explicitly said in Fate/Zero that mages did create it, though, why is it an issue if the Grail is corrupt by its very nature, and that what everyone's been believing in and fighting for has just been held up on too high a pedestal? The "corruption", as presented by Fate/Zero and only Fate/Zero (I repeat: as presented by Fate/Zero and only Fate/Zero), is simply that it couldn't come up with a perfect solution to Kiritsugu's wish, that it entirely depended on his basis of knowledge, and that it immediately went to the darkest (yet most logical) solution. This line of cold, hard logic could simply be what the mages intended to produce with the Grail. Because really, the Grail technically works. I mean, for all intents and purposes, the Grail is 100% correct in the solution it came up with for Kiritsugu's wish. That would fulfill his wish, and it does so building off of Kiritsugu's knowledge. The Grail's decision is very computer-like, in a way, funnily enough.

 

In other words, as presented by Fate/Zero and only Fate/Zero, the Grail does successfully grant wishes. It just doesn't do it in a necessarily ethical or morally correct way, which is what many in pursuit of it seem to hope for. It's the "looking for paradise and finding it, but paradise is not what was promised or expected" kind of trope.

 

 

 

--The problem is that you can't really grasp the whole bigger picture with only zero, that's what I meant. The grail wasn't meant to be corrupt, never was. Otherwise why would a bunch people fight for it in what was supposed to be a 4th war ( meaning there were 3 wars before this one) ? If the grail was corrupt since the beginning wouldn't it make sense for someone  ( mainly from the main families: Matou, Tohsaka or Einzbern) to do something about it? Could something have happenened in these past wars to make the grail like this *hint hint* ? Futhermore is the nature of the grail really "make any wish you want come true", or is there some deeper meaning behind it?

 

 

All of this is essentially only hinted throughout F/Zero and never further expanded, IMO a good standalone should be able to close it's main plot points in it's own story

 

If we go by your interpretation of the grail using only Fate/Zero we will only meet more plot holes, like for example: 

"The grail is corrupted right? So why are they fighting for it in a 4th war in the first place?"

" Why the hell did the grail explode?"

" Where did this Angra Manyu came from, such an asspull..."

 

I actually saw a F/Z only watcher asking these on a forum

 

In other words: It's impossible to fully characterize and understand the grail with F/Z alone, futhermore if it only existed F/Z there would be a lot of fan theories on the matter but we would never get an answer because F/Z would be a standalone 

 

 

 

 

- Which serves as closure to Kiritsugu's story. The only reason you say it's sequel bait is because you're taking F/SN into account. When you shouldn't be. That's the entire point of this whole discussion: does F/Z work without F/SN? Since Shirou works as closure for Kiritsugu's story and is absolutely integral for his character arc, in this case, yes. It does. I addressed this in my previous post. Still, I will go into new further detail on this a bit further down in this post.

 

 

 

 

> Kiritsugu failed in everything because of his ideal but never reaches an "answer"

> He rescues a child

> This child inherits his ideal 

 

So no, basically Kiritsugu storyline only ends throughout Shirou, who reaches different conclusions about this ideal in the three diferent routes. 

 

 

- The Star Wars comparison is invalid because they are two extremely different types of stories with two extremely different effectiveness in their execution. I didn't address your previous comparison because it was inherently flawed, and I didn't feel it needed addressing. Fate/Zero is well-written and heavy in well-expressed themes; the prequels are not, and don't stand their ground very well as it is, even without being thought of as standalone. And yes, this makes a huge difference as to whether they can effectively speak for themselves or not.

(If you want me to argue about the prequels, I'll save us both the time and just direct you to RedLetterMedia's in-depth reviews of the prequels. They address absolutely everything possible.)

I'm not arguing for the Star Wars prequels here. I'm arguing for Fate/Zero. You can't try and equate them when they are vastly different stories with vastly different intentions, tones, and quality of execution.

 

 

 

--The comparision is valid, F/Z as a prequel isn't meant to be watched first because it reveals some of the original work plot points kind

of like the Star wars prequel series. Futhermore while the original can stand on it's own because it was made without the prequel in mind, the prequel can't stand without the original because it was made with the original in mind, simple isn't? 

 

I will give you another example though

 

Tokyo Ghoul is an amazing series, however the end was sudden and dare I say quite rushed if the author just intended TG to work as a standalone series, it left a LOT of serious questions regarding the main plot points in the air and the overall feeling of "complete" the reader feels at the end of a story ( even when it is an open ending) it's misssing, for a time a lot of people were mad at the author because there was no sequel announced, the ending made absoultely no sense if there wasn't some kind of sequel in the works and then...the authoru ended up surprising everybody who was ready to trash the series and announced a sequel  Tokyo Ghoul:re

 

I can only imagine that the fandom would react in a wayresembling the TG fandom  if F/Zero was truly a standalone work, it's ending left  some main plot points unanswered , two ( or three)  main antagonists on the prowl, a lot of foreshadowing for the future, etc. If there wasn't F/SN to act as it's follow up I guarantee that a lot of people would be mad about hte ending

 

Futhermore I can only say that just because F/Z is a story that's well written with a heavy and well expressed themes doesn't means that it isn't a prequel, most of the themes and main plot points in F/Z for that matter were taken from F/SN in first place.

The truth of what F/Z is? It's not meant to be a standalone, it's own work, no F/Z is a prequel to the original series, it's basically the events leading up to the zero point of the original series , the great fire.

 

 

 

That being said, again: Kirei and Gilgamesh surviving works thematically with Fate/Zero. I don't see what is difficult to understand about this, unless you didn't understand Fate/Zero's thematic intentions. Which I'm positive you did. Even so, I already addressed this in my previous post, and you haven't debunked any of what I actually said about this. Instead, you went straight to the Star Wars prequel comparison again and used it in place of an actual argument.

 

 

 

 

--If F/Z was a standalone and it ended with Kirei and Gil alive it would be basically invinting a sequel ( basically not making F/Z a standalone) anymore. My point stands. 

I don't understand how can you say that Kirei and Gil alive "work " with F/Z main themes, Kirei's theme in F/Z is basically discovering his purpose in life  which basically is being a deranged sociopath and even this it only concludes in Heaven's Feel and Gil's purpose only takes full circle in the "sequel" F/SN, 

 

 

 

 I'm actually extremely glad you brought this up. On the contrary, those are exactly the kinds of questions that should pop up when Fate/Zero is standalone. That's exactly the point. It leaves a large grey area of whether it's a good thing for Shirou to aim for that, or a bad thing considering all that's happened. That isn't something which needs explicit answering, it's a thematic question presented to the audience, asking about what's right and what's wrong, whether Kiritsugu has really saved this kid or not if he's put him on this path. Asking complex questions about choices and consequences like this is something intelligent entertainment tends to do.

 

 

 

--No, no.

If a work is a standalone then most of the main plot points or questions should've been ansewered. Of course there are those so called vague endings but even those actually help the story in one way or another. An example of a vague ending done right is Evangelion ( end of evangelion movie, not the TV series), everything concludes and even thought the certain things about the ending is vague, you can actually get a general grasp of what happened; a vague ending that doesn't work ( in a standalone series) is the Tokyo Ghoul one, a lot of main plot points went unanswered in such a way that there was dire need for a sequel 

 

Futhermore F/Z ending was written with F/SN in mind, basically as a bridge between the two stories so it can't be a standalone, specially considering that the fact that Kiritsugu ideals didn't came at conclusion with F/Z and only is given closure throughout the routes in F/SN, and there would be no way to know this if F?Z was a standalone, basically an important plot point in the whole series  would've been left unanswered and vague

 

 

Zouken doesn't need explicit addressing. He's just another embodiment of the cruelty in the world and, again, is needed for Kariya's storyline as it is. What does he plan to do in the next war? It doesn't matter. The story was about this specific war. We don't need to know what he's been planning for the following one. That is not a question which needs answering for this story's completion. And, like Kirei, Gilgamesh, Ryuunosuke, and Caster, Zouken basically got a happy ending in Fate/Zero. Further supports the themes.

 

 

 

Zouken got a happy ending in Zero...lol, lol

I will let this one pass because you have almost no knowledge of HF and I don't want to spoil things.

And yeah it would be a good idea for standalone F/Z 

"let's foreshadow this evil guy master plan and never give a closure to it lol, let's show him getting some grail fragments for whatever reason and not follow up like ever, oh oh  let's give him an innocent poor child and never follow up on the fact too...!" 

 

But still I wonder how does the fact that antagonists getting "happy endings" fits in the Zero theme...unless you completely misinterpreted Zero's themes...I mean Waver ended up with a "happy ending" too but hey he is not a villain, so does this not fits zero theme? I got confused

 

 

 

 

Questions are not inherently a bad thing to leave open; it all depends on the kind of questions left open. It's basic storytelling. Intelligent entertainment gets you thinking about what you can draw from it, what it's trying to say. The Shirou thing is exactly this. Will he fail? Is Kiritsugu giving him an impossible objective? That's something to consider for what the story presents thematically. It is not a plothole: it's an important concluding element.

 

 

I actually agree with this... only the bolded though

The Shirou thing is not this, Kiritsugu's ideal is not concluded in F/Z, he utterly failed to protect even those dear to him, so as I said an ending has to be "conclusive" in one way or another; Kiritsugu's ideal is only concluded and further explored in all of the F/SN routes.

 

A question like "Will Shirou fail ?", is not intellligent...it's a dumb question, because we saw in F/Z ( and its said in F/SN first few lines) that his ideal is basically impossible, seeing Shirou struggle with it in three different manners is what gives an conclusion to the plot 

 

 

 

Hell, it even furthers the "those who pursue noble intentions will suffer" theme the series has. Again, basically every "villain" character got a happier ending, while almost all of the good characters didn't. Kiritsugu seems like he might have with Shirou...but has he really? Considering the previous examples, it's likely he hasn't, because Shirou will be aiming for a noble intention. Even so, this isn't explicitly stated or shown. It's instead left to the audience's interpretation. Because of this, it's a bittersweet yet intentionally uncertain ending (just to be clear, so you don't misinterpret this: the uncertainty with Shirou is kind of the point).

 

 

 

 

...

.....

You misinterpreted the whole thing

 

"those who pursue noble intentions will suffer 

 

Where did you take this from? Really ? 

In F/Z most of the characters didn't get a happy ending because it needed to work as a greek tragedy for the events in F/SN to unfold, it's not trying to say that "those who pursue noble intentions will suffer" because that's completely and utterly wrong, what kind of message and theme is that? Lol

To completely negate this I will just bring Waver's character, who ends up in a quite good  manner and then ...( I can't spoil but you will probably see what he became by the end of UBW hopefully) 

 

And I already addressed the Shirou thing, Kiritsugu's ideal is not  fully resolved in F/Z so that's why what you said doesn't work, then Shirou's inherits and  ends up reaching three differents conclusion about it, all with different meanings and themes

 

 

 

Honestly, it seems like you have F/SN a bit too ingrained in your thinking to really put it aside and truly think of what Zero is like as its own entity. A lot of the arguments you've made about this loops back to "but this was explained/important in F/SN, so by default that means it must need explaining when it's presented in F/Z". Which defeats the entire purpose.

 

 

 

 

Well, who made F/Z also had F/SN  ingrained in his thinking.

Urobuchi is a fan of the series and then he and Nasu ended up writing F/Z together, basically 90% of the ideas for F/Z were already in F/SN by Urobuchi's own words

So yeah, there is no way to run, F/Z is F/SN prequel, it doesn't work as a standalone 

 

F/Z brings up things that are never fully addressed and otherwise can lead to plot holes and bad vague endings if the series was indeed a standalone, F/SN prior existence to F/Z helped it quite a lot because it managed to bring full closure to the tragic events that unfolded in the 4th grail war

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nar123, 04 June 2015 - 01:59 AM.

[rocci]

The gate for fan to know fate series is not from fate zero.

But from DEEN fate.

@ryohki
You could check it on mangahere.

Edited by rocci, 04 June 2015 - 02:24 AM.

[Nar123]

The gate for fan to know fate series is not from fate zero.

But from DEEN fate.

 

Basically yes

 

But DEEN Fate was horrible as an adaptation, spoils things from other routes and got Shirou's character completely wrong

 

 

tbh  it's better to just read the first route at the VN, then watch the UBW anime, then the upcoming HF movies and lastly F/Z

Edited by Nar123, 04 June 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[RyohkiFan]

 
Basically yes
 
But DEEN Fate was horrible as an adaptation, spoils things from other routes and got Shirou's character completely wrong
 
 
tbh  it's better to just read the first route at the VN, then watch the UBW anime, then the upcoming HF movies and lastly F/Z

But if it wasn't for Deen, Fate wouldn't have been as popular because no one likes to read...

[RyohkiFan]

The gate for fan to know fate series is not from fate zero.

But from DEEN fate.

@ryohki
You could check it on mangahere.

I read it!! I feel upset...lol I ship Illya and Gil in there...since no Saber..